I can't break out of this particular conditioned mindset, read on...

[edger]

About a year ago, I made a pact with myself I would start cold-approaching hotties with regularity in clubs(some of you might remember me talking about that), but I can't for the f*ckin' life of me get past thinking I'm being an annoying pain in the ass, a creep, and doing a disservice to these dumb b*tches, due to me being conditioned my whole life to think that, remembering women my whole life saying "I hate when guys approach you in clubs, it's so annoying", or "These guys that approach you in clubs, oh my God, are such creeps", etc., etc., etc. I'm sure you've all heard women say this a million times over the years. This is EXACTLY what makes me hesitant to cold-approach. This is why I detest it. Because I don't want to be labeled "that creep" or another "annoying loser", eventhough I know I'm none of these. If there's one main reason why guys don't cold-approach, it is exactly that.

My question to the seasoned players is, when women complain about guys cold-approaching, is this just another part of their b.s. talking at work here, or do they really not like it?

I was having a deep discussion with my buddy this past Saturday night on the way home from my regular club, who gets pissed that I don't pull and cold-approach, because in his words, "Edger, you're a typical good-looking white guy, and here I am, a dark Indian guy from India, who isn't as good-looking as you, who can hardly be understood when he speaks, and I pull more hotties than you, on a regular basis". He can't for the life of him understand how a guy like myself isn't rolling in the babes. He's told me on a number of occassions, "When I first met you, I would've sworn you were a player pulling in fine women, with that long hair and all, and that rocker look." He said it to me again most recently yesterday and then started laughing about how wrong he was. I started laughing with him too(hey, I try to find humor in everything and obviously don't take life too seriously).

So, again, my question to the seasoned players is, when women complain about guys cold-approaching, is this just another part of their b.s. talking at work here, or do they really not like it? According to my buddy, it is all b.s. that women just say.

I remember as a kid when I was like 11/12 yrs old, I would walk up to any attractive girl and open them easily, and pull them, and that's because I wasn't conditioned yet to think that I was doing a disservice to women. I always had a hot girl as a kid. Now, forget it.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I think for the most part women just say they hate being approached and that it's "creepy" and the guys are "creeps". Women and society in general tries to get inside the head of males and get them to beta themselves. But on the other hand they actually do say this about guys and to other people, if you approach a girl and she for whatever reason isn't attracted to you. So it serves as defamation and can hurt your rep.

For instance there are times when I'll be talking to a girl at a bar, and one of my friends will come up and talk to her girl friend. Then after he leaves the girl will say the guy was a creep or creepy without knowing that I know the guy.

It is messed up how men are expected to do the pursuing, and when they do women are free to call them "creeps" for doing what women are delegating men do. Women are subjective, arbitrary and capricious. So anything a woman has to say about anyone or anything should hold no weight, but society gives women's words maximum weight. But a guy that approaches a girl is "great" if she is attracted to him, but for no other reason than she's not attracted to him, then he's a "creep".

I think though if you are gaming at clubs in a big city it doesn't matter what a few random people say about you. You have to simply not care and take action and take the gamble to get any where.

 

[edger]

But on the other hand they actually do say this about guys and to other people, if you approach a girl and she for whatever reason isn't attracted to you.

Yeah, it's so f*ckin' stupid. Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing.

It is messed up how men are expected to do the pursuing, and when they do women are free to call them "creeps" for doing what women are delegating men do.

Exactly, I said this in another post a few days ago. They're ready to get on a guys case for cold-approaching, but then will have the nerve to b*tch and complain that no men approach them. Gee, I wonder why you dumb 'poor excuse for a human being'.

but society gives women's words maximum weight.

I don't know how it ever came to this. I don't know how the f*ck men ever became brainwashed into thinking their own gender was the enemy. Even though feminist's have done a job on twisting people's mind's, couldn't men have still have figured out that we're not the enemy.

 

[katatonia]

Part of the 'alpha mindset' is not giving a fvck. Clearly you give a fvck what these women think about you, whether they will label you a creep or not, etc. In reality there is no problem going up and approaching a hot girl. Your mindset should be that you are doing them a favour by even approaching these women because YOU are the prize. There's your problem.

 

[Pandora]

Women are subjective, arbitrary and capricious. So anything a woman has to say about anyone or anything should hold no weight

Bingo. I think Stagger Lee has it right. This is exactly why we should not take the whole mating ritual of cold approaching and dating so personally. Alot of how a women initially responds to you is based on capricious factors. These factors are largely mysterious/subconcious to even her. Add this to the fact that women are very fickle. You can have tremendous failure with one girl, but tremendous success with a another girl in the same night for no good reason other than one girl thought u were cuter than the other girl did or she liked ur image more. It might even be something even more trivial like you remind her of a guy she hated in second grade or sum other bs. Sometimes they dont even know why they reject you or are drawn to you. Trust me, they really are that fickle. At its core cold approaching is just numbers game.

 

[edger]

Your mindset should be that you are doing them a favour by even approaching these women because YOU are the prize. There's your problem.

That is my exact mindset, has been for a long time now, however, eventhough a guy knows what he's about(a prize), still doesn't stop women from falsely labeling him.

 

[Die Hard]

If the guy looks good and acts like a DJ, chicks will like it.
If the guy looks bad and acts like an AFC, chicks will not like it.

The millions of times you've heard women being negative about guys approaching them, they were just referring to the situations where the guy looked bad and acted like an AFC.

however, eventhough a guy knows what he's about(a prize), still doesn't stop women from falsely labeling him.

True. Knowing you're 'the prize' is not enough. You have to show what you know!

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Edger,
If you insist on limiting your activities to clubs you will never achieve your worth....Those places are only marginally better than Internet Dating,when you have a Girl sure take her to the Club but trying to pull them there?you have too much competition.

 

[logic1]

I have been in clubs and watched guys go from table to table approaching women. They did look like a pain in the ass. Maybe even annoying. So, yes there is a possibility you are being a creep, not because you are, but because of the way you are going about the game.

In a club you must be aware of your surroundings. Take about an hour to survey the hunting grounds. There are some women you should not waste your breath on. Pay attention. The women you should not have approached in the first place are most likely the ones making the smart ass comments.

 

[zekko]

I'm sure getting hit on can get annoying at times, so there's probably some truth to what the girls say. But other times I think it's their way of bragging: "oh, all these guys are always hitting on me, it's so annoying. You're lucky you're an ugly girl and don't have to deal with it".
Also, if they don't want to get hit on, why do they go to clubs?

The other thing I would say is if this Indian guy is so good at pulling chicks, why aren't you benefiting? Like getting the hot friend of the girl he pulls, etc. ? I'm sure you'd rather pull your own, but still....

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Yeah, it's so f*ckin' stupid. Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing.

dude, you're the male version of a goldigger. Chicks are pretty good at sniffing stuff like that out. A combination of lust and hatred is not a good state to be in when approaching girls.

 

[squirrels]

See, we're in a weird transitional state right now with "nightlife". My generation was RAISED on "tha clubb" on weekends. The funny thing is now that all these club-rats are married and all, they STILL dont' know what to do with themselves, so you get more and more married or "attached" women going out to the clubs because "that's what they've always done".

Back then, the clubs were a "meat-market" and that's WHY you went there, male or female. But that's not to say they aren't...there are many exclusions out there. Even those, though...man, I've had married women sit on my lap at the bar telling me how awesome their husbands are while I feel them up, I've had women tell me, "If I wasn't married I would totally suck your **** right now"...

But let's set aside the people who are at bars/clubs and don't really belong there...

----------------------------

The reason women complain about guys approaching them in clubs is because the guys approaching them in clubs are NOT the guys they want to talk to.

If they were REALLY that creeped out about guys approaching them in clubs, they'd get their girlfriends together, put some techno-music on the iHome, and dance in the living room.

First of all, in a nightclub, if you're not attractive, or at least made up to be attractive, FORGET women. No one's going to spot you across the dance floor and yell, "Hey, nice personality!" If you don't have a pretty face, or a ripped body, you'd better be dressed in clothes that make you look good and carry yourself in a way that makes women think you have value.

Honestly, every night I went out to "tha clubb", I would look at myself in the mirror before I left. 9 times out of 10, I couldn't help but say, "Damn I look good." Part of it's natural looks, but not a huge part. A lot of it's the smile and dressing not necessarily in designer crap, but in stuff that I know makes my face and frame look good. Even then, not EVERY woman is going to be attracted to exactly the same thing, but even as a dude, you can tell when another dude is the kind of guy that ladies would dig on. If you don't get that impression about YOURSELF before you even set foot in "tha clubb", then you may as well not waste time on women.

Now here's the thing about "the approach".

There are two reasons why a guy approaching in the club seems creepy.

The first probably pertains more to you than the second. That first pitfall of the approach is being uncomfortable with your own sexuality.

A woman who has just rolled into a nightclub or bar doesn't know you. All she has to go on is the way you behave and the way you carry yourself. What you MAY NOT know is that how you view the interaction is displayed in your mannerisms.

If you go in with the idea that "women find sex to be creepy", then that is what you'll portray during the "approach". Either you'll bullsh!t around the issue of attraction until she gives you an open invitation to make a move (which she often won't).

Or you'll supplicate, buying her drinks, doing her favors, trying to make her laugh so she feels like she OWES you something, like you've EARNED it...and believe me, there's no faster way to creep a girl out than doing her any kind of favors with the implication that you're "buying sex" from her by doing so.

If you are afraid to show direct sexual interest because YOU believe that it's "creepy", she will read that in the way you behave. Same if you feel like you're NOT an attractive guy...she will sense that in the way you carry yourself...as if you're compensating for her not liking you. Funny thing is, she doesn't KNOW whether she should "like you" or not at this point, you're a stranger. But the way you're behaving suggests that OTHER WOMEN probably haven't liked you in the past, and she reads that and gets creeped out. "Why is he acting like I shouldn't like him? What HORRIBLE THING has he done that makes him approach me so apologetically?"

Stack on top of that some "game" taken from some SoSuave website and suddenly you have a major incongruence...you know all the right things to say, but the WAY you say them says, "don't trust me". Women RUN from that kind of incongruence.

The second thing is that most guys forget that girls are HUMAN BEINGS. Honestly, if you want to marry her, that's great. If you just want to f**k her, they are COOL with that too. As long as it's HER that you want to f**k.

No woman just wants to be "another warm hole". And that's where the second set of guys "creeps out" the lady. They approach her with the mindset, "you'd make a nice notch in my bedpost". He makes no move to discover HER sexual energy, she's a total STRANGER to him, and all he seems interested in is getting his winky wet. Those guys that Logic1 is talking about that use the "shotgun approach" and just bounce from table to table trying to run some game, they typically fall into this category.

I mean, what would you think if some girl was just bouncing from table to table trying to hit on every guy in the place? Even if she's hot as hell, wouldn't you wonder to yourself, "What's wrong with her?"

Women have no problem being a piece of meat...as long as you see her as that prime cut of filet mignon that you salivate over every time you think about it, not just another cheeseburger from McDonalds to satiate your rumbling stomach. They want to be APPRECIATED. They want their friends to know that an attractive man selected THEM out of all the girls in the club.

That's why a lot of celebrities get that instant cred...they literally CAN get any girl they want. Just by selecting to spend the evening with a particular girl, that girl gets the feeling that she is "special". Not even the hottest girls in the world see themselves as "the hottest girls in the world". So if you're Brad Pitt or George Clooney, they assume you can get with ANY exotic supermodel you choose, at any time...but you chose THEM.

So to summarize:

1) Be attractive. Look your best. Take CARE of yourself...comb your hair, wear nice clothes, treat yourself like someone that the ladies are DYING for. If you don't take care to look good, women will see you and think, "He must not think too much of himself".

2) Be COMFORTABLE with what you're doing. When you approach a woman, act like it's the most natural thing in the world. Think of "sex" as just another part of the day, just another fun thing to do like playing a video-game or going bike-riding. Make her feel your SINCERITY...and make her feel like she can f**k you or she can not-f**k you...you've had both happen and either way, it's natural.

3) Be interested in HER, even if it's only to f**k her. You don't want to "F**K her", you want to "f**k HER". (note the emphasis) Act like you have the right to be selective and you are CHOOSING to spend time with her, rather than like you need to sink your d**k into something and she just happened to be the closest piece-of-arse to you.

 

[st_99]

Part of the 'alpha mindset' is not giving a fvck.

I think this pretty much sums it up. Somehow we need to drill this into our heads until we get it. Its not about what she wants, its about what you want.

 

[edger]

dude, you're the male versiorepels them?n of a goldigger. Chicks are pretty good at sniffing stuff like that out. A combination of lust and hatred is not a good state to be in when approaching girls.

Well, isn't it common knowledge around here that guys SHOULD turn on their sexuality? I mean, I don't make it look like I'm sex starved or a rapist, but I do try to turn on that male sexual energy that we all place an importance on here. And on to the 'hatred' part, while it's true that I'm not the biggest fan of women's qualities, I never ever let them know or display in my behavior how I really feel about them. What could I possibly be doing that they would catch on to this? Give me some examples. I'm a pretty damn good actor, and very convincible in my behaviors, believe me. I honestly don't think I'm repelling women because of these things.

 

[edger]

I told edgar a long time ago that he had an unattractive ego and here he is posting this crap:

Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing."

And he wonders why as a good looking dude surrounded by hotties he hasn't been laid in years?

Women feel edgar's ego driven energy from across the room and when they see him approaching, the alarm sirens blare and they hit the panic button.

Can you elaborate exactly what it is you feel I'm doing that's turning them off, citing examples? Like I said to Taiyuu_otoko, isn't it common knowledge around here that guys SHOULD turn on their sexuality? I mean, I don't make it look like I'm sex starved or a rapist, but I do try to turn on that male sexual energy that we all place an importance on here. And on to the 'hatred' part, while it's true that I'm not the biggest fan of women's qualities, I never ever let them know or display in my behavior how I really feel about them. I'm a pretty damn good actor, and very convincible in my behaviors, believe me.

 

[edger]

Double post, my mistake.

 

[8YearLurker]

Some great replies here, a few things I want to add:

Yo, you GOTTA learn how to read people, especially women. You need to develop this cerebral ability. Women actually have this sh1t down far greater than men do.

When I walk into a bar, the mall, a bus, a store.. I know who wants me and who doesn't. The best naturals out there have this ability.

I know when I step into a room, which woman I'm making nervous, which woman's pupils are dilating in my presence. Dude become a master at reading body language, facial expression, and nonverbal communication...

I'm so in tune with the thoughts of people in my environment. I have to be for my line of work. If I can't read people, I don't make the bread and I could potentially lose my license to practice.

This ability will let you know who's horny, who wants you, who despises you, who respects you, who's confiding in you, etc.

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

You know how I met my last girl? Right on the streets of Midtown Manhattan. As she walked in my direction she arched her back which brought her t1ts up, she started stroking her hair, and walked a helluva lot slower. I was buzzed from the bar but I knew she was doing this all for me. I moved in for the kill, got her number called her a week later and next thing you know we're making out in the downstairs of 'coffee shop' a lounge type place on Union Square.

This actually turned into one of the best relationships I ever had, being that she was sweet, educated, and gorgeous.

It wasn't a cold approach as much as it was me reading her mind. I know it sounds crazy... i know it does..

Everyone's gonna say "oh 90% of approaches never work etc." But my point is don't make it an "approach." Go for the hot women who are giving you Indicators of Interest. And Edger, I know you're getting indicators from hot women, I've read your posts...

Once you get in the door by reading these signs, you can now work on CLOSING, whether it be a lay, a number, an email. Millions of guys get indicators, but how many of them can initiate, move in, and close??

I've been blown out before, I even talked about it in a thread titled "Man, it's so Random." That randomness I was referring to was about ATTRACTION, not pick up.

I also have an issue where I know for a fact a woman is sending me positive signals I just don't fking act on it. This can really cause frustration. I'm working on it.

I'm not perfect but my goal is just to be out in the field as much as possible constantly developing this sixth sense.

 

[squirrels]

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

This is a gold nugget right here.

If she was really that "creeped out" by you, she'd go out of her way to avoid you. It's been rare, but there are times when I've been "in the zone" and could just sense things like this. If you look good (again, not just face and body, but in carriage and presence), you're getting looks, even if you don't see them. When you become attuned to that kind of thing, it's like when Keanu sees "the code" at the end of The Matrix for the first time.

A lot of times, this scares the "AFCs" more than anything. They get a glance at "the code" and feel like they're seeing something they're not supposed to see, almost as if they're seeing the girl naked. They become embarassed and self-conscious and start second-guessing all of it. They start feeling like they're being "creepy" by seeing through a woman's sexual mechanics. BAM...they come off as "creepy".

I don't think I've EVER done or said anything "memorable" or used any canned lines or gimmicks to hook up with a girl. It's just a matter of having the right attitude (see my long-winded spiel above) and then being able to recognize when a woman wants lovin'.

As R. Kelly says, "I'm wise enough to know when yo' body's callin' ".

Take me to your special place
close your eyes, show me your face.
I'm gonna P!SS ON IT!

Haters wanna hate, lovers wanna love.
I don't really want...none of the above.
I want to P!SS ON YOU!
Yes I do, I'll p!ss on you! I'll pee on you!

Your body...ohhh your body....
is a Port-a-Potty.

 

[JAS760]

Some great replies here, a few things I want to add:

Yo, you GOTTA learn how to read people, especially women. You need to develop this cerebral ability. Women actually have this sh1t down far greater than men do.

When I walk into a bar, the mall, a bus, a store.. I know who wants me and who doesn't. The best naturals out there have this ability.

I know when I step into a room, which woman I'm making nervous, which woman's pupils are dilating in my presence. Dude become a master at reading body language, facial expression, and nonverbal communication...

I'm so in tune with the thoughts of people in my environment. I have to be for my line of work. If I can't read people, I don't make the bread and I could potentially lose my license to practice.

This ability will let you know who's horny, who wants you, who despises you, who respects you, who's confiding in you, etc.

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

You know how I met my last girl? Right on the streets of Midtown Manhattan. As she walked in my direction she arched her back which brought her t1ts up, she started stroking her hair, and walked a helluva lot slower. I was buzzed from the bar but I knew she was doing this all for me. I moved in for the kill, got her number called her a week later and next thing you know we're making out in the downstairs of 'coffee shop' a lounge type place on Union Square.

This actually turned into one of the best relationships I ever had, being that she was sweet, educated, and gorgeous.

It wasn't a cold approach as much as it was me reading her mind. I know it sounds crazy... i know it does..

Everyone's gonna say "oh 90% of approaches never work etc." But my point is don't make it an "approach." Go for the hot women who are giving you Indicators of Interest. And Edger, I know you're getting indicators from hot women, I've read your posts...

Once you get in the door by reading these signs, you can now work on CLOSING, whether it be a lay, a number, an email. Millions of guys get indicators, but how many of them can initiate, move in, and close??

I've been blown out before, I even talked about it in a thread titled "Man, it's so Random." That randomness I was referring to was about ATTRACTION, not pick up.

I also have an issue where I know for a fact a woman is sending me positive signals I just don't fking act on it. This can really cause frustration. I'm working on it.

I'm not perfect but my goal is just to be out in the field as much as possible constantly developing this sixth sense.

remarkable bro, i really want to get to this level.
how did you get there?

 

[zekko]

I mean, what would you think if some girl was just bouncing from table to table trying to hit on every guy in the place? Even if she's hot as hell, wouldn't you wonder to yourself, "What's wrong with her?"

Everything in your post made perfect sense. But doesn't this go against most basic game philosophy? Don't they tell you to get out there and talk to everybody in the club? Don't they tell you not to show too much interest in a girl, make her think you're indifferent to her? Yet here you are saying "make her think you want HER specifically?".