I can get numbers but Im always stood up at the dates, what am I doing wrong?

[wise_mage]

well I guess, the title pretty much sums it up. I really have no problem getting a number. I know lots of ways to do that.
the girl that stood me up today told me to call her after I got her number on friday. I called her on tuesday night, kepot it short, made a date to which she didnt show, like the rest of them.
now I dont really care about that girl. shes nexted. I think Im already at a point where I couldnt give a damn about ine especific girl stooding me up, except shes part of a pattern.
most girls do this to me. I guess I must **** up in the phone stage or something. anyway, I dont have a ****ing clue as to why this happens. but Im getting sick of it.


the thing is Im a great guy. I have everything going for me.
Im fun, charming, confident, good looking and to top it off Im a musician. now, thats supposed to get me chicks but it seems like I live in the friggin twilight zone.
maybe they think that since I as their # and call them they must think Im looking for something serious, which most young girls dont want. now I dont care, about having something serious or not. I have to know the girl before and if shes cool enough then I might want that ifshe wants it. its really the saem to me if she is my sex buddy or my girlfriend.

anyway, young girls say they want to have fun with "fun" people, people I generally tend to find the oppositte of fun and quite dumb as well.
Im talking about the guys who risk their lives everyday driving real fast , get in fights cause of every minor thing and use violence as their first solution, are completly mainstream and controlled by western consumistic society`s ways.

anyway enoguh rant. I dont know what Im doing wrong.
it doesnt make sense that a guy ike me is having such a hard time finding someone to have a sexual friendship, regardless if there is a social title such as girlfriend or not.

 

[DJZ]

Dunno man, some girls are just weird. How many in a row have stood you up?

I had a girl give me her number without me asking. I called her, she didn't answer. I didn't leave a message, and she did not call back. The next time I saw her (like 2 weeks later) she approached me and told me to call her. I waited a few days and called her again...no answer, again, she didn't call back. Then I get an instant message from her friend like 2 weeks later saying that she's sorry she didn't call me back, but she's been really busy. I don't know what she's trying to do (why tell me to call her if she isn't interested...I didn't even ask for her number), but I nexted her already.

 

[E-Z Rider]

Let's take my eternally optimistic viewpoint here-

I really liked reading this: "I think Im already at a point where I couldnt give a damn about ine especific girl stooding me up"

That is a mindset which is infinetely helpful in success with women. Guys who get too concerned with a chick they don't even really know are just lambs waiting to be slaughtered. It's also a mindset which comes from experience. There's really no other way to achieve it *fully* except through getting rejected and stood up repeatedly.

Most guys never have the initiative to go out and get #'s AT ALL. They only go after what comes along in front of them. Think of how many more women you are exposed to when you get out there and take chances.

But you really shouldn't be getting stood up that much. There are two general problems that could cause this high failure rate: you (you come across badly on the phone, etc.) or the girls (you get the #'s from the wrong type of girls).


It may be some of both. I'd be interested to know what exactly you say when you call the girl back. If you're going for a "date", you might want to start easing back and going for something more casual, maybe even a group thing. (for me, I could tell her she should come hang out at my fraternity friday night, we're having a band party, etc.) . Get to know her a little better first before you go for something more exclusive.

Second thing I would suggest is that you take a look at your approach for finding women. Maybe the women you're getting #'s from are the type that dig the "fun" guys you disdain. If so, that's not a mtch that's going to work very often.

You could even try getting involved in things that give you an opportunity to meet girls, instead of just randomly finding girls at the mall or on the street. Maybe then you could find someone with common interests, and even establish a little bit of repoir (sp, I'm retarded) with them before you go for the digits and a date.

Success is within your grasp- you've got the balls and you've got experience- now look for ways to change things up a bit.

Good luck- -E-Z

 

[DJnomore]

Simple law of dating.

All of dating is made up of several parts

1) Make yourself as valuable to others as possible. Often this means you have to conform....

2) Go out and make contact with lots of women. Do so in a manner that doesn't lower your "value" in their eyes.

3) Filter out the women who do not have high interest level

4) Sex act

If you don't get to 4 as often as you like then the error is in step 1-3

If your estimation of your value is universal then #1 is good. But be warned we all think we are valuable to the opposite sex.

If you get the number but lower your perceived "value" by doing it that could be your problem.

I suggest puttin more filter into your closes. Say something like "Would you like to give me your phone number?" It doesn't return as high a percent of the phone numbers but it forces the girl to express interest in a tangible manner. She will have a harder time in her backing away from this even in her own mind.

Some guys just badger a woman for the number and they feel safer saying no from a distance.

 

[Genghis Juan]

Body Language & Conversation Progress

When you are first interacting with a girl, with the eventual intention to get her phone number, there are so many non-verbal signals that you should be aware of.

On this board, it would be impossible for you to describe exactly how the conversation went along with all the body language. I think that alot of people in the beginning ignore the body language and fail to establish a friendly rapport before # closing.

Sometimes by the tone of the voice and the facial expressions, you get a feel that this is going to be a warm lead, then you # close. Alot of times, I see my friends do this, the keep a convo going on and on and on, mainly talking about themselves, not establishing a rapport, and I am watching, seeing the girl's body language go extremely negative (folded arms, no smile, distracted eyes). Yet, if they manage to # close, they come up to me saying things went well. Then, inevitably, a date never materializes.

I'd suggest doing some research in The Archive section, where Master of the Universe conducted a Boot Camp, the first 3 weeks deal with making good convo, establishing rapport, and # closing. You may find out, you're not doing something right.

Also, alot of times, a woman may flake anyways and decide not to setup a date. Just don't take it personally, it happens to all guys alot.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

I have the same problem, I just gave up for the time being. But i have alot going for me just as you mentioned and I had no problem getting #'s but I never got any agreeing to date. They gave right numbers and then would do things such as not call back, answer and say i had wrong number, or say they got themselves a bf within the few days i waited to call.

 

[showtime17]

Freestyles, wisemage and others...yeah i am in the same boat with u...i can get numbers and especially emails no problem, but getting further is the hard part. I had a girl who i just met give me her number and email just out of the blue and told me to call her, so i called her about 3 days later, but she didnt pick up the phone. I didnt leave a message, but called back later and she still wasnt there,so i was like ah fukk i dont feel like calling her all day and left a message. Sent her an email at the same time, she emailed me back and told me she wants to go out and told me to call her, so i did, she wasnt there, so i was like fukk this...maybe if i see the girl again on campus...or i write an email to another chick and the chick answers 3 weeks later, that's great. another good one i've gotten is after me sorta subliminally suggesting a date, the chick says yeah we should go out this weekend and gives me her and number and i tell her i'll call her to confirm and then when i call, she cancels and goes like let's go out next week, but it dont go anywhere, so i say fukk this....even if u get a date, u still havent won, cause the tricky part is the next date...i usually dont suggest it on the date, well number one cause most of the chicks i end up going out with have a bf, but anyways maybe i should just set up a second date, while i am on the first one...keep the first date short, cause if u talk for too long, you're bound to say something that will turn the chick off as i found out the hard way...maybe dont make it sound like you're going on an official date when u call her, but instead suggest a short meeting for lunch or something for like half and hour and then if it goes good while at lunch suggest that u meet for lunch again in a few days and then if that goes good, suggest to do something else and slowly build up...i dont know if that would work, but i am gonna try it, when i get healthy cause right now i am sick..if anyone has any other suggestions or experiences come out with them!!!!

 

[uniassign]

well I guess, the title pretty much sums it up. I really have no problem getting a number. I know lots of ways to do that.
the girl that stood me up today told me to call her after I got her number on friday. I called her on tuesday night, kepot it short, made a date to which she didnt show, like the rest of them.

Tell us the circumstances where you are getting these numbers. Are they from a club? On the street? At parties? What.

Tell us how long it takes you to get these numbers. Tell us what you say to them, the conversation etc. Without these information, we cannot give you proper feedback.

Generally, being stood up (flakes) occur because there is a lack of:

(a) attraction; and/or
(b) values; and/or
(c) rapport.

Most people think the work is done when you get a chicks number. But there is nothing further from the truth. Numbers mean JACK ALL.

Another thing you have to consider is your rap on the phone. If you didn't spend long in getting the number, then you should spend a bit more time on the phone to demonstrate your personality to the girl on the phone.

Generally, you will need to re-attract the girl on the phone and then set something up. You cannot have a short pick up and then a short conversation with her on the phone because this leaves the girl with nothing about you.

A girl, although attracted to you, need to feel comfortable before going out with you.

 

[MVPlaya]

Wise_Mage

How are we supposed to tell you what you're doing wrong if you don't tell us what you're doing? To receive better responses you should post your approaches: how do you talk to a chick, how do you convey yourself, how much time do you spend on eliciting values and getting social proof, how do you # close, when do you call, etc?

Basically, there are a lot of unanswered questions here. Nonetheless, I'll tell you what I think you may be doing wrong and offer you a rough guideline for a lower flake-rate:

Getting a #, contrary to the opinion of half this site's regulars, is not that hard of an accomplishment, its going somewhere with it thats the harder part. You see, you may talk to a chick for two minutes, seem cool, get her #, and take off, but not go anywhere because she'll go home, think to herself "he seems cool," but then starts worrying, she doesn't know you, she's not sure if she'd feel safe around you, she's not fully sure about you as a person. And when all the fear and doubt kicks in she begins dodging your calls flaking on dates. Thats why you need a different approach, one that will pre-empt this doubt and confusion that is the root of your flaky girls' behaviors:

Firstly, you never (okay... usually don't) want to # close a chick within 2 minutes. You have to spend some time eliciting values and Demonstrating Higher Values (DHV), ergo, figure out what she likes and let her discover (per your disposition, not rhetoric) that you are what she looks for in a guy. Now you have a hook, she has a reason to go out with you beyond a superficial guesstimate of who you are. Of course, this is not enough, you want to spend some time on Rapport, show her your sociable and people like you, meaning, if she doesn't go out with you, someone else will, + you'd make a great boyfriend. Of course, this is not accomplished by referencing your "cool"ness but by demonstrating sociable traits. But most important is C&T (comfort & trust), make the girl feel at ease around you (at ease not meaning bored but comfortable that she has a lower shield and wouldn't have reason to be afraid when going out with you).

So, lets recap:

• [*]Elicit her values ====> Demonstrate them
  [*]Social Proof
  [*]Comfort & Trust

These three processes should be done roughly at the same time, but if you're beginning pick the order you're most comfortable with because its hard to do everything altogether (not saying you, in particular, are new, just that others read this too). This is the format I use for a cold approach, I modify it for different settings. Once again, do not be confused by the order I posted the steps in, they should all flow at the same time. If you follow these steps in #closing you will take more time and may not numberclose as often, BUT, you will have a MUCH lower rate of FLAKES, meaning, you will go out MUCH more often.

Another technique you might want to consider is telling a girl your rules on flaking or giving them a "block," tell them they don't seem serious and will flake so you're going to throw away their number, I personally don't like that last one, it creates animosity, but telling a girl you're FLAKE rules generally works, provided you exhibit alpha-male tendencies where you can say this and not look arrogant, merely principled.

 

[wise_mage]

hey guys. thnks for the feedback.


since its hard to tell you about every single approach I make, Ill tell you about this one girl I mention in the post.

friday night at a downtown plaza. Im just there sitting at a bench by myself playing my guitar. a couple of people I know come and say hi then leave or stay for a while to chat. for a while no one comes and this 2 guys I dont know sit next to me.

they ask me a question about something going on in the plaza and I respnd that I dont know about it. anyway, this girl is standing under a tree usicng her cell phone right nex to the benmch we are sitting at. shes closer to those guys.

one of them starts talking to her, and I listen, after a few sentences I enter the conversation. she is there because she is supposed to meet her girlfriends but they stood her up and she is trying to call them. the guy who started talking to her is totally ****blocked by his jealous friend who tells him to shut up everytime he asks something tothe girl. tell the girl to come sit down while she waits for her friends.

we start talkingthe other guys stay quiet. she asks me if Im with them. both the guys and me answer we dont know each other.
she starts telling me how she is friends with this drummer and blah bah blah asking about my music.

I tell her my band is playing at this party next week but I dont know the adddress yet so give me ur phone number and Ill call and tell you and bring lots of ur friends. she says sure.
I start lookingfor a pen but I dont have one so I ask the guys for a pen and the jealous one doesnt want to give on to me but he finally gives me a red marker.

I give it to her she gives me her ophone an cel numbers

the guys leave. and leave the red marker which is now mine

then we talk a bit more I make her laugh, I then leave cause my mom came to pick me up.

I call, tell her the party was canceled (which it was) but that we should do something anyway. she says ok.
I say, got something specific in mind, she says no, I say ok, then lets see each other this day at this time in the place we met,
and hang out a bit (I only could be with her for one hour cause I had a class at 7). she says sure. she never shows.

now I wonder if her friends stood her up and she knows how upsetting that is why wpould she do that to me?

ja, what a life eh!

 

[uniassign]

It seems you just had a normal conversation with this chick - if she is hot, then she would have PLENTY of them with strangers (especially guys trying to pick her up).

You were nothing special to her. You had nothing that she wanted. You didn't arouse any emotions in her, you didn't really establish a connection, or any sort of rapport.

She might be attracted, but we couldn't tell.

That's why she flaked.