I am done with this game. I wanna go MGTOW

[Serenity]

@Pandora
All that effort and still life does not bend to your will, welcome to everyone's life. It gets easier if you stop expecting things to go your way, it would be pretty boring too if everything was predictable. Winning means nothing without failing, so you gotta love the game and not just winning.

Now some specific ideas. It seems you go for sex pretty damn quick, which is great for the sake of avoiding a relationship. If you want LTR you have to not let your d!ck blind you, there's several other factors to consider like what you'd actually want in a woman besides sex. You can use the same strategy many women use to find a LTR partner, wait with sex until certain conditions are met. If she quickly goes ghost you can be relatively sure she wasn't looking for a LTR. If she starts pushing it within the first few dates you can also be relatively sure she wasn't looking for LTR. In either case you've invested very little emotion into her. What you would be looking for is a woman who enjoys your presence, doesn't play games and sticks around for more than 2-3 dates without sex. Alternatively you can fvck her early, but playfully ask (before sex) if she'll run away or come back for more. If the response is quick and positive then go ahead. I don't think you're being too picky, on the contrary I think you're not being picky enough or at least not picky about the right things.

Stop beating yourself up too much thinking "what did I do wrong?", interpersonal dynamics isn't as simple as right or wrong because of individual differences. What you did "wrong" with that one woman might be entirely right for another, which means you can do everything "right" and still fail because it was the wrong woman. Sounds like that one particular woman has her own struggles with these things though, nothing you can do about a woman who can't relationship properly. Other than find one who can.

What you say about the reason having a nice apartment is to get laid is hilarious. I have a nice apartment because I like living in a nice apartment, because it's nice... I don't make choices based on how much I think women like it, I make choices based on how much I like it. Your view on this is not really MGTOW if you think about it, because men who go their own way don't run back to depending on their parents. I would certainly not want to go back living with my parents, even if I was chronically single, they're good but it would put limits on my freedom.

 

[Desdinova]

I think most guys want a long term partner right? I may be wrong about that though. I know some guys just like the sensation of sex but that is hollow to me.

Okay, well that's a start. It's good to know what you want. Do you actually know what you want in a companion? Also, how old are you?

It took me a decade of practice to develop game good enough to go to a bar and get a girl back home.

This is a good skill to have. You know damn well that you can attract a woman that you want. Getting to this point is half the battle. The other half is finding one you want to keep around.

It makes me want to just "settle" with the 5.5/10s or go MGTOW.

You'll have to make some sacrifices when it comes to having a long term partner, and looks are one of the things you'll have to be lenient on. The better women aren't going to be the prettiest ones. You can still get a decent looking woman with good values, but it's unlikely she's going to be smoking hot. Once you deal with enough smoking hot women, you'll immediately see them as a stressful pain in the ass and have no desire to deal with them. They're the ones you'll happily stuff your d1ck into and then throw them away.

Let me tell you, when you've got a woman who cares for you, does lots for you, and makes the effort to stick by your side, that 5hit is more valuable than a smoking hot piece of ass with a 5hitty personality.

Once you have had a decent amount of sex, sometimes you want a little more. The girls these days cant give you more.

I'm honestly not fond of the phrase "girls these days". Although the social atmosphere is atrocious for producing a caring, submissive, feminine woman, it's not impossible to find them. What I just listed are the natural qualities of a woman. They're SUPPOSED to be caring, submissive and feminine. Those qualities get masked by the ones society encourages: b1tchy, strong and independent. Those qualities are influenced, not natural. All you need to do is find a woman who has resisted the influence of society and hasn't been alpha-widowed. It sounds so simple, but it's a difficult task to find a woman like that.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

So went to a bar by myself. Spit some of the best game of my life. Got this girl and her friend to follow me to another bar. Went home with the one i wanted. Had good sex. Waited to call her. Called her. And no reply.

You can do everything right. Spit amazing game and sleep with a girl. But it still doesnt matter. Its frustrating. It makes me want to just "settle" with the 5.5/10s or go MGTOW. It took me a decade of practice to develop game good enough to go to a bar and get a girl back home. Now i can do it semi consistently. But it does not matter. You can be everything they ever wanted in that moment. But once you leave their sight, you become just characters on a screen.

I slept with a girl this summer. I met her at a bar took her on two dates and slept with her on the second date. She then started ghosting me and ignoring me. Im thinking what the heck did i do wrong. I ran into her friend at the bar and her friend told me " dont take it personal. She does that to all guys she sleeps with. One she sleeps with you she gets weird". WTF

Its like the goal keeps shifting. 10 years ago sleeping with a girl was the goal and everything else was easy after that. Now men can be awesome, and sleep with the girl and it doesnt guarentee shi*. How much more can we take. I am seriously thinking about becoming MGTOW and moving back into my parents house in order to save on rent. Seriously what is the point of paying rent if you are planning on dropping out of society on some level. The only reason guys have nice apts is to get laid. But if getting laid is too much of a hassle what is the point.

Maybe i am being too picky. Maybe i should just be with the 5.5/10s. They seem to act right. Idk guys

Most DJs know the right way to go.... that is go your own way, and be super-selective. Why don't they do it? Lack of self-control. If self-development does not involve self-control, it is a SHAM.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Thanks bro. You are very right. I appreciate the advice. But when does sex just become sex. Lets be honest. We all entered this game not because of just the sex. Bumping flesh parts is amazing. But what we all really want more is to pair bond and intimacy ( start a family). No player starts off a player. We all start off like Fred Savage in WonderYears. Idealistic. Its the reality of women that turns us into pick up artists. So even when i am banging a girl part of me is like "damn this is going to suck later when the games start". The other part of me is "**** i like this *****, too bad this dont mean ****". I am not brag complaining. I dont bang hot girls a lot. I get laid with them every once in a while. That is still more than many and i am thankful for it. All i am saying is that i am at the point in life that Roosh V is at. Once you have had a decent amount of sex, sometimes you want a little more. The girls these days cant give you more. They are really just good for sex. Thats a depressing thought to most guys.

One for the big boys.

Interesting discussion on sex here... from 50 minutes on...
and a bit on pornography from 1hr 45

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

You're sleeping with random bar women...They don't want a relationship with someone that just saw their ugliest side

The truth. 'Pick up' pretends to be about self development. Nope, it's just about how to lower your standards, and learn a skill set, to sleep with sluts. It is what is, not another thing. Meanwhile, the exceptional girl you may happen to meet, will write you off as a player.

 

[Pandora]

You're sleeping with random bar women...They don't want a relationship with someone that just saw their ugliest side

LARaider you are 100% right. I talked to a couple of female friends about it last night. One of them i used to date. They explained to me that they hardly ever respond back to a guy after a one night stand. One girl said that she feels overwhelming shame. In the moment when she is drunk it seemed like a good idea. Then the next day they feel horrible. She explained that she cant have that as the basis of a relationship. But the manosphere hardly ever explains this result of pick up. Its counterproductive.

 

[Pandora]

Okay, well that's a start. It's good to know what you want. Do you actually know what you want in a companion? Also, how old are you?



This is a good skill to have. You know damn well that you can attract a woman that you want. Getting to this point is half the battle. The other half is finding one you want to keep around.



You'll have to make some sacrifices when it comes to having a long term partner, and looks are one of the things you'll have to be lenient on. The better women aren't going to be the prettiest ones. You can still get a decent looking woman with good values, but it's unlikely she's going to be smoking hot. Once you deal with enough smoking hot women, you'll immediately see them as a stressful pain in the ass and have no desire to deal with them. They're the ones you'll happily stuff your d1ck into and then throw them away.

Let me tell you, when you've got a woman who cares for you, does lots for you, and makes the effort to stick by your side, that 5hit is more valuable than a smoking hot piece of ass with a 5hitty personality.



I'm honestly not fond of the phrase "girls these days". Although the social atmosphere is atrocious for producing a caring, submissive, feminine woman, it's not impossible to find them. What I just listed are the natural qualities of a woman. They're SUPPOSED to be caring, submissive and feminine. Those qualities get masked by the ones society encourages: b1tchy, strong and independent. Those qualities are influenced, not natural. All you need to do is find a woman who has resisted the influence of society and hasn't been alpha-widowed. It sounds so simple, but it's a difficult task to find a woman like that.

Sage advice. Thanks. Ima ruminate on this. Btw i am 31

 

[Pandora]

@Pandora

Stop beating yourself up too much thinking "what did I do wrong?", interpersonal dynamics isn't as simple as right or wrong because of individual differences. What you did "wrong" with that one woman might be entirely right for another, which means you can do everything "right" and still fail because it was the wrong woman. Sounds like that one particular woman has her own struggles with these things though, nothing you can do about a woman who can't relationship properly. Other than find one who can.

So true man. Dont take it personal is something i try to keep in my head. But its the most difficult concept to master when it comes to women. On a cerebral level you might not take it personal, but there is always that little voice ( ego) that feels rejected. What you are saying forms the foundation of good inner game. I gotta keep reminding myself this. Todays dating climate is so messed up that unless a guy has a strong inner game he will keep second guessing himself like " is it me?".

I have two other plates. One of them i started dating after a drunken one night stand also. So you are very right that all of this is dependent on the personality of the woman. I get this on an intellectual level. But i still have to let it soak into my psyche 100%. I have made posts about the importance of not taking it personally before. But its hard to live like that 100% of the time. With so many dysfunctional girls every so often you start to second guess yourself when they do something crazy.

 

[Pandora]

One for the big boys.

Interesting discussion on sex here... from 50 minutes on...
and a bit on pornography from 1hr 45

Ima listen to this video on my commute to work. Thanks man

 

[Pandora]

You'll have to make some sacrifices when it comes to having a long term partner, and looks are one of the things you'll have to be lenient on. The better women aren't going to be the prettiest ones.

This is probably secretly one of my biggest issues. How low is too low as far as looks are concerned. Most of our issues with women are solved when you start to dip into the 5/10 range. I have a plate that is like a 5.5/10 and she treats me so well ( the other one is a 7/10 but she lives out of state). This 5.5/10 has a great fit body but funny looking face.

But i am brainwashed into thinking that i am "settling" so i am constantly looking to upgrade. I know this is wrong. I feel like a hypocrite because this is exactly how the modern women thinks. I rail against the hypergamous nature of the modern female, but here i am thinking i am too good to settle for a 5.5/10 who treats me very well. What is the lowest that you would go personally lol? Would you dip into 5/10 territory to get good behavior.

 

[ubercat]

This pickup is evil stuff is frankly juvenile. Ok I never walked around with the Goggles and the fur hat but in my thirties I did go through a game phase. And scored a ridiculous amount of arse.

And for the build it and they will come crowd, yes I did pull hotter chicks then my smv should have allowed. Big fan of cheating if everyone wins. And of course that helped build my IDGF. Now when I see a beautiful woman pushing out her fakies or flicking her hair I get a mental image of a shark fin coming towards me. I'm not scared of sharks but I respect them for the damage they can do.

Most of the PUA routines are grounded in solid psychological principles. As such they work on any woman. As long as you are not retarded. Of course if you slither up to a chuck at your local church dressed in a leather jacket, pimped out with gold chains and starts spitting game she's likely to Mace you.

Sure I don't run those routines now. I've internalized the principles and it's just who I am now. However I think it's a phase you kind of have to go through unless you are one of those rare Naturals. Mainly approach depends on the venue not the girl. If you were trying to pull a bar slvt you probably need to amp the volume on your game. If you are approaching a girl at the bus stop you need to build more comfort before going for the close.

 

[Desdinova]

Btw i am 31

You have entered your prime for dating. That's a good thing. I got laid more in my 30s than in my 20s. I dated women ranging from age 19-37. The best range to find your long term companion is age 18-23. Her lay count should be less than five. She also cannot be alpha-widowed. Once their lay count is higher than five and they've been alpha-widowed, their only use is a dumpster for your cvm.

This is probably secretly one of my biggest issues. How low is too low as far as looks are concerned.

You are the only one who defines that one. Everybody else's opinion on what she looks like doesn't matter. What matters is that you're happy with her. For me personally, she cannot be butt ugly. I have to at least find her face tolerable and she has to have a decent ass. There are a lot of things I prefer with my women: short, brunette, nice ass, nice face. I ended up with a woman as tall as me and blonde. However, she cooks me dinner, packs my lunch, is DTF whenever, pays for lots of stuff, and treats me like a goddam king. I can't get that with most short cute brunettes with a nice ass. Being treated like a king is more valuable than what I prefer in looks.

But i am brainwashed into thinking that i am "settling" so i am constantly looking to upgrade.

"Settling" is when you take something that's good enough. Men generally want a woman who looks magnificent, and anything else is "settling". IMO, you settle when you tolerate getting treated like garbage in order to have a nice piece of eye candy on your arm.

I'm turning 40 in less than a year. Fvck eye candy. I want someone to reward me for all my hard work. My 23 year old GF does that. She's not the hottest woman I've dated, but I have NEVER seen another man in a relationship get treated as well as I do. To hell with hot bytches, give me a woman who cooks me supper every night. As a side note, it's easy to avoid putting her on a pedestal because she's not the hottest chick I've ever dated. However, I'm all down for rewarding her for her loyalty, her commitment, and all the 5hit she does for me.

I rail against the hypergamous nature of the modern female, but here i am thinking i am too good to settle for a 5.5/10 who treats me very well.

I honestly don't think you're ready to settle down yet. You still have your 30s to burn through. Make sure your own 5hit is in order; your career, your home, your hobbies, and your health. While you're dating and fvcking these chicks, watch for things you like and don't like. Also, watch for patterns in the ones who really like you.

Thinking you're too good for a 5.5 means you're not sick of all the bull5hit yet. I was building a plan to just fvck at random and take care of my own 5hit when my GF (who was an orbiter for 2 years) just kinda fell back into my lap. I actually alpha-widowed her myself, and came back from the grave. She sees me as extremely high value and refuses to let go. How's that for an emotional imprint?

What is the lowest that you would go personally lol? Would you dip into 5/10 territory to get good behavior.

Depends on if I can stand looking at her or not. If she's just kinda average or plain, sure. If she looks like she tried to put out a forest fire with a screwdriver, hell no. But again, it doesn't really matter what I think, what matters is what I will tolerate.

I came to the conclusion that women age 18-23 with low lay counts are where my money's at when it comes to a long term companion. THAT is where there's value, not her looks. If she's young with a low lay count and not alpha-widowed, she's a contender. All these bytches who ride the c0ck carousel and have an ex-BF they can't get over are garbage. You'll never climb to the top of her high score list like the bastard who alpha-widowed her. She won't pair-bond for the long term, so your best bet is to pump her full of cvm and throw her away.

'Pick up' pretends to be about self development. Nope, it's just about how to lower your standards, and learn a skill set, to sleep with sluts. It is what is, not another thing. Meanwhile, the exceptional girl you may happen to meet, will write you off as a player.

I honestly have the opposite opinion. To me, "pick up" is about learning about what makes women tick, and using that knowledge to make her attracted. I don't see it as lowering standards at all. Lowering your standards is when you keep a chick around even though her personality was scraped off the underside of an old sneaker.

Women don't write men off who are players. That's what they say when they're not the ones who are getting attention from the player. They still want to sleep with him. My GF knew I was a player. Her best friend (who has known me for two decades) told her. That didn't stop either of them from wanting and enjoying my attention.

 

[BeTheChange]

Hot Girls Under 30 Will Be Impossible To Lock Down

Populations will continue to get fatter, decreasing the attractiveness of the species. The few remaining girls who aren’t obese will have a never-ending line of suitors at the door (not only betas but alphas as well). This puts her closer to living the Sex and the City dream. She will jump ship at the slightest trouble in a relationship, whereas before she might have been willing to work it out. To see this phenomenon in action today, look at any beautiful girl between ages 19-23. Locking her up for more than a couple months is nothing short of extraordinary. In the future that age range will expand into the upper 20s and maybe even lower 30s. All beautiful women will be the most advanced and ****ish of players, and all that game will be able to do is squeeze in a couple bangs until she moves on to the next one. http://www.rooshv.com/the-future-of-game

There is A LOT of truth to this. Makes me realise I did pretty well to keep my ex around for 3/4 years. Ironically we actually started dating when she was 19 and split when she was 23. As crazy as she was, some of that would have been down to being drunk on the millions of option she became increasingly aware of, as her social circle expanded and the power she had over other men became more apparent to her.

The ONLY way you can win with these women is to LOVE something else outside of chasing females. And preferably something which is in your direct sphere of influence. Right now I'm truly focused on my career and achieving my goals around self development and financial freedom. Honestly couldn't give a sh*t about the women im banging or trying to sleep with. And taking this approach sets you free. I'm far more content than I was when I set finding that unicorn as a legitimate goal. Women can never be the ends. Poon King was right. They are principally for sex and entertainment. Anything else is a bonus.

 

[Desdinova]

Have zero experience to refute this...They might avoid a relationship with you but they will still sleep with you

I've seen women talk about it and I've been part of it. The player label does nothing to change a woman's true opinion of a man. I was chatting a chick up once and we were talking about this dude and how much of a player he was. She ended up fvcking marrying him.

I've had women tell me right to my face that I'm a player, but still flirt and try to date me.

The "player" label does nothing but make a man more interesting and intriguing. If you throw a man labelled a "player" and a man nobody knows anything about in the same room, the women are going to be watching and talking about the player. Having that label means that he's desirable to women, and other women want to know what makes him desirable. The "player" label gets their imaginations flowing. I've always said that the place you want to be is on a woman's mind.

 

[Desdinova]

1. "I'd fvck him but not date him"

The valueless words of a woman.

2. Calling you a player then dating you but acting insecure

That's a control tactic. She's just trying to gain power over him.

3. Fake calling you a player because they know you take pride in that even though they know you are a LTR guy.

You mean she's being playful?

 

[corrector]

So went to a bar by myself. Spit some of the best game of my life. Got this girl and her friend to follow me to another bar. Went home with the one i wanted. Had good sex. Waited to call her. Called her. And no reply.

You can do everything right. Spit amazing game and sleep with a girl. But it still doesnt matter. Its frustrating. It makes me want to just "settle" with the 5.5/10s or go MGTOW. It took me a decade of practice to develop game good enough to go to a bar and get a girl back home. Now i can do it semi consistently. But it does not matter. You can be everything they ever wanted in that moment. But once you leave their sight, you become just characters on a screen.

I slept with a girl this summer. I met her at a bar took her on two dates and slept with her on the second date. She then started ghosting me and ignoring me. Im thinking what the heck did i do wrong. I ran into her friend at the bar and her friend told me " dont take it personal. She does that to all guys she sleeps with. One she sleeps with you she gets weird". WTF

Its like the goal keeps shifting. 10 years ago sleeping with a girl was the goal and everything else was easy after that. Now men can be awesome, and sleep with the girl and it doesnt guarentee shi*. How much more can we take. I am seriously thinking about becoming MGTOW and moving back into my parents house in order to save on rent. Seriously what is the point of paying rent if you are planning on dropping out of society on some level. The only reason guys have nice apts is to get laid. But if getting laid is too much of a hassle what is the point.

Maybe i am being too picky. Maybe i should just be with the 5.5/10s. They seem to act right. Idk guys

I thought MGTOW (Men Go Their Own Way) is EXACTLY what you are doing here, isn't it? I mean, the idea of the MGTOW is that it is okay to have random sex with women as long as you don't have any more involvement with them beyond that. Unless you are in a relationship, or LTR that went sour, or a marriage that ended in a divorce with extended legal, custody battles after 40 years of marriage for a stupid reason on the wife's part, then you can't really complain and claim that here, can you?

Have you got burned in a relationship before or got heart-broken when the relationship ended and saw all of your investments on that wiped-out? That's a legit complaint toward leading to MGTOW. It doesn't sound like you got burned by any woman. You never woke-up one day and could not eat because you were depressed because your soul-mate was gone?

Once you have a divorce under your belt then you can complain. Until then you are just looking for trouble if you want more involvement with a woman because they got the law on their side and their got allot of rights and you are left high and dry if they turn on you.

 

[Masculinity]

You didn't do anything wrong, OP. We're men dealing with chicks in a messed up society.

 

[BeTheChange]

yes that, but also playing to your ego. Women know how to play men's egos easily.

Your ego only gets played if you allow it to bro.

 

[Pandora]

You didn't do anything wrong, OP. We're men dealing with chicks in a messed up society.

You are right man. The society has totally messed up women. A little update is that she finally texted me back. I just told her that even though it was a one night stand i am down to see her again. She said that she had fun that night and we will hang out one day.

I no longer care about it tho. I was blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I know that any girl that rejects a guy after a ONS is essentially broken. First of all no totally sane girl fuc*s a guy within hours. I dont care what anyone on this forum says. Secondly the guy who calls her back after the ONS is the guy she should be with. He has shown that he isnt in it for just for sex ( and she is attracted to him physically). So not only did she find a guy that she is very physically attracted to, but she also found a guy willing to commit on some level??? Only broken chicks refuse that. I already started going on dates with other girls/ plates so im over it. Thanks for the support tho.

 

[Masculinity]

This ^ is the mentality and attitude that more men need to adopt.

I'm amazed at how quickly you had a 180 degree turn, OP. Well done.