I actually encountered something new

Nutz

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I usually give advice, so asking for it is a little weird. I guess this was bound to happen sooner or later though.

About a month or so ago I met a woman at a meetup.com bar crawl. We hit it off, made out a bit, and decided to keep in touch. We went out the following Friday for dinner and drinks, and we talked about what we wanted right now. We both are coming out of long term relationships and just want something that's not serious and we agreed it wasn't a date and we were just "hanging out". We should have hooked up, but I forgot I took cold medicine and had too much to drink and was really tired (in a bad way). Despite what we called it, it was still a traditional date. We hugged, and kept in touch throughout the week, and I met her and her friend the following Friday at a bar/club. Similar thing from the first time we met: grinding, kissing, etc. Things aren't serious and it's just light and fun. Tonight I picked her up and we did the bar crawl thing again. Maybe I mistook the situation, but I figured that tonight would be us "hanging out" since I picked her up and was in theory her ride back (and if we clicked and did our thing we'd be hooking up since that's usually how it all goes). So we get to the first bar and we're both social butterflies. She's off doing her thing and I did mine. I didn't want to hover or make her feel like I was oppressing her or anything. I think what she had in mind was she wanted to go to "hang out" with one of the other guys at the bar that she'd met at one of the earlier bar crawls. Since we're not actually dating I figured she'd be setting something up for later in the week like I was going. No big deal. I'm not sure how things changed, but at some point when we were at the next to last bar I think she got jealous of me flirting with other girls and getting a few kisses and numbers. She wasn't kissing guys, but she was blatantly flirting and rubbing her ass up against guys (not dancing, just backs up to them and rubs them to get their attention) and stuff liek that. It was almost like a battle of who could flirt harder. I guess I won, even though I wasn't playing. Fast forward and hour or so later and we're at the last bar where everyone is dancing. Keep in mind it was me, her, another woman I'm NOT interested in, and the guy she's interested in. We were the only people from the bar crawl to make it over to this bar/club to dance. I was sorta limited in who I could interact with since the rest of the group hadn't made it over yet. So I get uncomfortable and didn't want to make her feel the same so I go downstairs. Not long after the women I'd met earlier show up and we all get a table. My friend also shows up who was taking part and he goes upstairs not realizing I was downstairs.

Now this is where I need help figuring out since this is where things go pear shaped... I texted him and he comes downstairs and tells me to just delete her number and forget her. I asked why and I guess I figured she must have been about to hook up with the guy she was dancing with like I figured we would be. He was up there for a while and finally comes down and tells me to delete her number and forget about her. However, he didn't say what she actually said or did. A while later she comes down wondering if I'm coming up and we get talking. I told her we're just friends, blah blah blah, and whatever happens I'm fine. I really don't care (since I do after all have a table of girls to entertain). She assures me that if I want to go she can just get a cab (and I'm thinking, no she'll just get a ride with whoever she's hooking up with). I don't care, but I told her I'd hang out if she needs a ride since my friend is drunk and can't drive anyway. Well, lo and behold my friend finally decides to tell me what happened upstairs. Basically she was dancing and grinding with any guy that would give her attention (and was giving the guy from earlier the cold shoulder) and she started to grind on my friend and he stopped her and asked "What about Nutz?" She told him "Nutz is a loser". What the hell?! 5 minutes ago she was asking me to come upstairs and seeing what I was gonna do about the drive home. Was she jealous, HPD, or something else? I just don't get it this time.

Well, karma bit her in the ass because she dropped her phone when she was getting some random guy's phone number and it cracked the shell and basically exploded. However, I forgot about this and when I finally got my friend squared away I tried to see if she still needed a ride. Yes, despite what was said, I'm not going to leave her hanging like that. However, like I said, I forgot the phone was toast and figured the silence meant she was too busy with someone else to bother getting back to me and so I left, and felt rather justified since she did say that about me to my friend no less.

So I'm sure there will be some fallout from this down the road. I'm inclined to just drop her completely, but then on the other hand she'll probably think I got jealous or something and will likely blame the booze and say she doesn't remember saying that (or actually not remember). Regardless, I like her, when she lets he guard down we click really well, but she's so wrapped up in her head that it gets in the way of the mutual attraction. Overall though I think she's just an attention * * * * * and wants to go through as many guys as possible and somehow I got caught in the middle because I like her a lot more than I probably should.
 

djzulu

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I will try to make this brief:

The situation that you are describing above is very intricate and it seems that many of the details are missing since you were in various locations at the same time (multiple bars, multiple rooms, friend says this, she says that etc.) The communication between you guys was off. Over analyzing the situation won't lead you anywhere, this is what I suggest:

If you like her, and think that you click - give it another shot. Meet up with her - one on one - and see how it goes. Another date will either confirm your feeling about this girl, or will provide a good reason to next her.

Just remember this : 'When there is doubt, there is no doubt'

If after your next date you still have a doubt about her - next her immediately.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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Sounds like she was pretending not to care to get you to care but when you obviously didn't care then she got pissed and then really didn't care and now you care.

feelings have a tendency to rear their heads when you least expect them, don't they?

If you wanna hook up (with her) again, isolate. she can't handle the competition and will turn flaky. stay outta bars.(with her)

Personally, I'd recommend not "just hanging out" with a girl unless you are using her specifically for a 'pivot' or something, and she knows it. which you might have been, I don't know. Sounds like you both had some pretty unspecified and flexible personal boundries.

work on the other numbers you got until you least get a few make out closes. Your feelings for her should diminish considerably.
 

vitor

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Hmm, way too much drama. Remember it is OK for you to Play games but if she does get the hell out of there. She disrescpted you to your friends probally being jealous because you were hanging out with other women. She sounds like someone who gets drunk and loses her bearing. You can try to sleep with her, I recomend a House date, invite her over, get her drunk you get drunk and smash. But stop going out drinking to bars and competing with her. She was probally hot **** in college and is wondering why you would ever look somewhere else..
 

Nutz

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Already way ahead of you guys with the numbers and makeouts (had 2 last night). I'm just wondering where things went sour and why in order to prevent or minimize the chances of a repeat with someone else. My gut tells me I may have come across as needy/clingy at one point, which I was trying to prevent by not hanging around her all the time, but then that space I think pissed her off. It was just really hard to piece together.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

jophil28

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Nutz said:
We went out the following Friday for dinner and drinks, and we talked about what we wanted right now. We both are coming out of long term relationships and just want something that's not serious and we agreed it wasn't a date and we were just "hanging out".
SO you went out on a date that wasn't a date, but really was a date when you discussed it and both agreed that you were on a date ?

Dude, I read your whole post...You accompanied a woman on a bar crawl who just left an LTR. What are you thinking ?

Q.What do we KNOW about these women, and what do they always want from the next chump who comes into her life after her big breakup ?

A. WE know that they are usually either gunshy or branch swinging, and they want validation and ego inflation...as much as possible . She certainly got a whole lot of that during the bar crawl ,from several contributors.

And you got confusion and blue balls.
 

romangod

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taiyuu_otoko said:
Sounds like she was pretending not to care to get you to care but when you obviously didn't care then she got pissed and then really didn't care and now you care.
I agree. You have to take care that these situations are treated carefully. When she pretended not to care to get you to care you should have pretended that you cared before she got pissed and really didn't care and before you began to care. Then you wouldn't have a care in the world with this girl while she cared that you cared.


Take care.;)


Cheers!
 

Nutz

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jophil28 said:
SO you went out on a date that wasn't a date, but really was a date when you discussed it and both agreed that you were on a date ?
I think it was pretty clear it wasn't a date. It was framed as just friends carpooling. In other words, plausible deniability. Note: the only reason I haven't f-close her yet is because we never had good logistics. I seeded that with me driving so if we got drunk and screwed around we'd both be going back to her place.

jophil28 said:
Dude, I read your whole post...You accompanied a woman on a bar crawl who just left an LTR. What are you thinking ?

Q.What do we KNOW about these women, and what do they always want from the next chump who comes into her life after her big breakup ?

A. WE know that they are usually either gunshy or branch swinging, and they want validation and ego inflation...as much as possible . She certainly got a whole lot of that during the bar crawl ,from several contributors.

And you got confusion and blue balls.
Oh, I know she's a validation/ego junky right now. I was trying to set things up so that she'll bounce around getting her BT spikes from all the other guys, then I'll just transfer it over to me later on and we'll make out and mess around like we had several times before, only this time I'd have logistics for the close. I guess by hanging back as much as I did it tripped her up because she does like me. That's all I can figure, although I did overhear her downplaying me to the guy she'd been talking to all night when we were upstairs dancing just before I left. Ultimately she ended up tooling the poor guy on the dance floor and was grinding on everyone else in front of him, including my friend which caused all of this.
 

jophil28

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Nutz said:
Oh, I know she's a validation/ego junky right now. I was trying to set things up so that she'll bounce around getting her BT spikes from all the other guys, then I'll just transfer it over to me later on and we'll make out and mess around like we had several times before, only this time I'd have logistics for the close.
Dude, she wanted validation and an ego bloat from dancing with all the other other guys MORE that she wanted to be "messing around " with you. The evidence from your first post says so.
IN a way, you were used. And that is what you can always expect from these women who are freshly single. Adjust your expectations next time.

The way to treat these women is exactly like they treat you. Instead of trying to game them with DJ tactics , use THEM for social proof and FORGET being with them later. IT never works when you try to "game " them into the sack. Newly single women are the most unstable of all. Unpredictable in the extreme.. they are like trying to control an armful of smoke.
 

Jitterbug

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You're a rebound guy, and you sound like you want to make this chick your girlfriend. The schtick about keeping it casual/slow is typical rebound guy scenario.

That night, after your friend told you that, you should've taken her up on her little dare, got in that cab, brought her home (after those guys "spiked her BT") and banged the hell out of her. Isn't that the deal at the start, that you two are supposed to be casually hanging out for some fun and nothing serious? :D

I've run into quite a few newly single women lately. All they want is to bounce around the club getting ego validation from guys (particularly if they were dumped by their ex-BF) and if they get in the right mood, bring some human dildo home at the end fo the night. As a DJ, you just have to keep your feelings locked away (those women aren't themselves at this stage, no use liking them for anything but sex), prepare your logistics, let them attention-wh0re and swoop in at the right moment to c0ckblock the other guys and bring her home.
 

decades

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all I can say is wow. if you did hook up with this chick you and her would create enough drama to keep an entire nail salon full of women Enthralled. forget the "bar crawls". See if she will actually go on a One on One date with just YOU! Quit playing the game on her terms where she is the Queen and you are just one of the minions competing for her attention.
 

squirrels

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vitor said:
Hmm, way too much drama.
:yes:

The outside you is playing games and partying it up.

The inside you is assigning high-value to this girl and trying to analyze situations.

You are incongruent. This is f**king up your head.

Cut that sh*t out. If you are into this girl on more than a bar-hookup level, then DATE her. If not, don't WORRY who she's getting numbers from and whether she calls you a winner or loser. But pick one. Be honest with yourself about what you want.
 

Nutz

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squirrels said:
:yes:

The outside you is playing games and partying it up.

The inside you is assigning high-value to this girl and trying to analyze situations.

You are incongruent. This is f**king up your head.

Cut that sh*t out. If you are into this girl on more than a bar-hookup level, then DATE her. If not, don't WORRY who she's getting numbers from and whether she calls you a winner or loser. But pick one. Be honest with yourself about what you want.
Point taken. I never thought about the duality issue of trying to game her and not be serious having the net effect of some kind of cognitive dissonance.
 

jophil28

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persistent exaction said:
all I can say is wow. if you did hook up with this chick you and her would create enough drama to keep an entire nail salon full of women Enthralled. forget the "bar crawls". See if she will actually go on a One on One date with just YOU! Quit playing the game on her terms where she is the Queen and you are just one of the minions competing for her attention.
Well said, and a good lesson for all you guys who are tempted to "hang out" with a newly single femme. They are generally a waste of your time.

YOu thought that you were on a bar crawl --- but she was on an Ego Crawl, and you were there as backup in case her planned ego binge did not entirely fill her up.
 

Jitterbug

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They're a waste of time if you want to go on dates with serious intentions, but if you just want a piece of arse, it's not bad.

I think squirrels is spot on.
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Rollo Tomassi

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You negotiated. Whenever a guy voluntarily uses terms like "just friends", "hang out", or "nothing serious" with a woman, what he's really doing is setting conditions for her to control a future frame. You're abdicating your sexual interest in her in the mistaken hopes that she will appreciate this in the future when she IS ready for "something serious" and this will have some sort of investment value for you.

It doesn't, and in fact it is not only unnecessary to set pre-conditions, but it's self-defeating too. It's unnecessary because you've already established that you're interested in her just by approaching and dating; no amount qualifying your reasons or conditions for having done so will change the fact that you have an IL in her. A fundamental principle of Plate Theory is that you NEVER overtly communicate that a woman is another option to you - and that's what you've done here by negotiating. There should NEVER be a need to expressly tell a woman you're "keeping it light"; this should be evident in a confident attitude and behavior with her. ALWAY DEMONSTRATE, NEVER EXPLICATE.

And this of course is why you self-defeat. You do so by expressly agreeing to her terms of your interest in each other. Just by agreeing this desexualizes you, robs you of any perceived confidence and puts you into the position of qualifying for her condition, rather than vice versa.

Also, one final note, NEVER tell a woman you just got out of an LTR - and particularly as early on as you did with this one. Women intimately understand the sudden stench of desperation that comes with a guy fresh out of a long relationship. You may or may not be, but this is going to be her perception of you, because of that common association.
 

Mr. Me

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It doesn't matter much if she's fresh out of a relationship and is looking for ego strokes, because just about everybody on the rebound fits that description. And if she's anywhere near hot looking, it won't be long before she hooks up with somebody and if that somebody really attracts her, it won't matter if it's rebound or not.

So, where it went south is when you made it too casual and just about "hanging out". You didn't step up to the plate and grab the bat and swing it at the ball. No direction, no purpose, just messing around in the dugout. Well, guess what? She sees that as you're not being "The Man", lost interest in you and so she goes back to rubbing her butt to be popular with the other fishies in the pond and sees you now as a "loser". The damage has been done.
 

Colossus

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You still like this girl?!?! The one who called YOU, the guy who gave her a ride, the guy whom she came with and danced with, a LOSER?!

Bro, you need to check yourself. I cant believe you even offered her a ride after that.

First of all, she's allegedly on the rebound. Second, you clearly displayed interest in her and then told her you were 'just friends'. That's AFC negotiation.

I think your assesment is correct: this chick is floozy and your feelings got a little too hot for her, so you made some bad moves in the process. Check out for a few days, regroup, and get back in the seat with new awareness from this situation. DO NOT call her. I cant believe someone would advise that.
 

jophil28

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Colossus said:
You still like this girl?!?! The one who called YOU, the guy who gave her a ride, the guy whom she came with and danced with, a LOSER?!

Bro, you need to check yourself. I cant believe you even offered her a ride after that.

First of all, she's allegedly on the rebound. Second, you clearly displayed interest in her and then told her you were 'just friends'. That's AFC negotiation.
All spot on Colossus.

I also read the OPs comment where he said that she called him a "loser" behind his back. So why did he even say another syllable to her after that ?

"At the first sign of disrespect , she is GONE" ...words to live by.
 

Nutz

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A few clarifications:

When I said I'd give her a ride after the fact, my friend and I were out the door, talked about it, then determined she was *****y because I made her jealous with hanging out with the other women. When I got home and made the original post I wasn't so sure anymore, hence this thread. At the time though I was thinking it was recoverable as I'm pretty good at smoothing things over like that. Don't know why, but I've always had a knack for it.

Since this weekend I'm well past that chick. Just to be clear, I collected 5 numbers and 3 makeouts that night, which is probably what set her off. Oh well.

As of tonight I'm already spinning 3 replacement plates for the one of hers I just threw against the wall and I'm slow cooking a 20 year old beauty queen I have in my college class.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

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