How to support your gf/partner?

[Heretolearn]

Hey team,

Just wondering how you support a girl whom you are with in general?

I.e beig suportive but not a doormat.

How do you compromise yet not sacrifice/change yourself for the worse?

Is it really about picking the right person/behaviour and walking away if you do not receive it?

eg. a friend was telling me about a scenario. His GF does not want him to be friends with this girl who is a slut i.e stole a former boyfriend of hers (they were cheating together). The guy is friends with the sluts new boyfriend so they all hang out together. The GF is saying if you loved me you would not be friends with her as it hurts her. THe BF is saying, look not my fight, your problems are yours.

The GF is saying that once in a relationship, you should support each other.

So where do you draw the line?

 

[Phyzzle]

His GF is right. He should back down on this one.

If you just mean being in the same room with the slut while hanging with a dude, that's fine. But there shouldn't be any texting, outings, or any other direct contact. He should not "be friends" with some woman who pretty clearly threatens his gf. Doing that is an act of disrespect.

I don't think my GF should be allowed to hang out with absolutely ANY guys she wants just because it's non-sexual. I should be able to draw lines (for good reasons). I don't want her hanging with, for example, exes who still openly want her back. She can draw lines, too.

 

[Feek]

It's a bit hard to say without more information. For instance, was this guy friends with the other girl's new boyfriend before she started going out with him? If so, how long? If they were friends before they started going out, then I'd say communication would be the key. Your friend needs to tell his girlfriend that while it may suck that she doesn't like this girl, he's no out to hang out with her, she just happens to be there with one of his friends. If his girlfriend doesn't have the trust in him to not run off with this other girl, how are they ever going to have the trust on which to build a strong relationship in other areas of their life?

Another factor is how long your friend has been going out with his girlfriend and how serious it is. If the relationship is more serious, and he became friends with this guy through this other girl, he might want to think about breaking it off for sake of his own relationship. To me, that's not folding to pressure, but merely respecting another person and not causing problems out of stubbornness. If they aren't that serious and he doesn't think this is "the one", then he may want to stay his path and let the chips fall where they may. Again, without her trust in him, there's no true hope for an LTR that will last. Even if they do end up getting married, lack of trust and communication is like a cancer that will destroy the marriage.

Those would be the biggies for me, but without knowing more about their situation, there's no way to give solid advice one way or the other.

 

[Interceptor]

This is SERIOUS and KEY issue for women.



Women, when in relationships, specifically require their Men to choose them consistently over other people, in a sense.

In other words, she MUST feel you have 'her back'. And that if she has an issue with someone, like in the above scenario, you WILL CHOOSE her side.Usually, she is reasonable, and it is not a crazy request.

But generally, she WILL ALWAYS look at your choices.
ie Be with HER, or BE with your BUDDIES.

if she had an argument with someone, she wants you to be on HER SIDE.
And DEFEND and SUPPORT Her, NOT the other party.

This manifests in multitude of ways.

And she has looked at the choices her past BFs have made, and will hold you up to a certain standard, and that is 'Will HE choose them over ME???"

This NEVER changes.
ALL Women in relationships WANT this from their Men.

DO NOT IGNORE it EVER.

ALways RESPECT her desire to want you on her SIDE.

 

[Feek]

Interceptor, I see what you're saying, and even agree - up to a point.

In my experience, a woman will want you 100%, many times to the detriment to everything else in your life. At that point, it gets to be too much of a good thing, and the relationship sours. What Heretolearn was asking is a thorny issue, to be sure, but a man needs to know when how much they're giving is enough, and keep the rest for himself.

To paraphrase Billy Idol, women will always want more, more, more. To me, it's just an example of what women think they want being very different from what they actually want when they get it.

 

[LovelyLady]

Interceptor has said some insightful things here, I think:

This is SERIOUS and KEY issue for women.

Women, when in relationships, specifically require their Men to choose them consistently over other people, in a sense.

In other words, she MUST feel you have 'her back'. And that if she has an issue with someone, like in the above scenario, you WILL CHOOSE her side.Usually, she is reasonable, and it is not a crazy request.

But generally, she WILL ALWAYS look at your choices.
ie Be with HER, or BE with your BUDDIES.

if she had an argument with someone, she wants you to be on HER SIDE.
And DEFEND and SUPPORT Her, NOT the other party.

This manifests in multitude of ways.

And she has looked at the choices her past BFs have made, and will hold you up to a certain standard, and that is 'Will HE choose them over ME???"

This NEVER changes.
ALL Women in relationships WANT this from their Men.

DO NOT IGNORE it EVER.

ALways RESPECT her desire to want you on her SIDE.

I believe there are three things that exhibit true commitment to being a couple:


1. Monogamy/sexual/dating exclusivity.

2. Enjoying simply being together. Genuine companionship in simply hanging out together.

3. Considering and placing the needs and interests of the partner and the relationship above friends and family (not breaking off commitment to those other people - but always choosing the growth and health of the primary romantic relationship/partner ahead of other relationships). This is how one's partner's level of commitment is measured actively, rather than just by words.


Missing that third key element may result in you being "boyfriend/girlfriend" - but not a couple.



All of that to say, OP, that she cared enough to make her need known to him.

I believe he should be honest with her as to his true leval of loyalty and commitment to her/their relationship or not.

He does not have to be the man who will meet that relational need of hers- it is his right to choose to not to be that man for her. He can set that "frame" for their relationship if that is the true reflection of his values.

She will simply respond according to her comfort level with his "frame" as to how much she wants to invest in him and their relationship, depending on the choices he makes.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The GF is saying if you loved me you would not be friends with her as it hurts her.

Starting any demand with "if you loved me, you would..." is a giant red flag to me. I always answer "if you loved me, you wouldn't give me ultimatums." The problem is her defining exactly what loving her involves, and asserting that any deviance from her expectations of you is not love. This lends itself to "do as I say, or else it means you don't love me," which is ridiculous.

Does he get to pick out who she does and does not talk to? Would it even be healthy if they did that for each other equally? The GF has trust issues, which is the root of the conflict.

 

[Nutz]

Am I the only one who sees an insecure women that's not long-term relationship material? She's got one ex who banged another chick and now she wants to control the men she with so there won't have a repeat. It's understandable, but if she's taking care of her end of the relationship then it's not an issue. The question is why did the guy stray to begin with. I suspect the OP's friend's girlfriend wasn't getting her knees dirty enough to please the man that strayed.

Bottom line, when women bring up issues like this it's because they fear they're not good enough or know they aren't putting in the effort to keep their men satisfied. Instead of trying to head off any cheating they should be working harder to keep their attention/attraction. It's that simple. And that's a good philosophy for both sexes because it really is a two way street. Yes, there are times when some guy is after your girl and she's blinded and you need to head things off. This could very well be a case of that with the OP and his friend, but usually when women try to control men in this manner the other aspects I'm talking about come into play.

 

[Interceptor]

Interceptor, I see what you're saying, and even agree - up to a point.

In my experience, a woman will want you 100%, many times to the detriment to everything else in your life. At that point, it gets to be too much of a good thing, and the relationship sours. What Heretolearn was asking is a thorny issue, to be sure, but a man needs to know when how much they're giving is enough, and keep the rest for himself.

To paraphrase Billy Idol, women will always want more, more, more. To me, it's just an example of what women think they want being very different from what they actually want when they get it.

This comes across to me as so if the person in question has POOR BOUNDARIES. And has great difficulties in how to manage his resources and how to balance his life , and with his relationship partner.

Most men have GREAT difficulty with this, but this is not an excuse to simply let it stagnate and not learn and improve, and know how to deal with this in a mature and masculine manner.

Sure, some women will want more of your time, but if you know how to prioritize and are in control of your resources you have a much better chance of having a healthy BALANCE. Something that most men do NOT have.

Again, you are correct, but only in the case of speaking in ABSOLUTES.
And there ARE NO ABSOLUTES.

Thus, just because some women have more neediness than others, doesnt mean that ALL women will act that way with you.
And just because MOST men have poor boudaries and will always SACRIFICE their own well being and reosources to 'keep her happy' does not mean it is correct or unavoidable, and that we simply have to settle for that, OR that we cant do something about it.

Bottom line, women WANT us to have a life outside the relationship.

And we must develop the skills to balance our lives in harmony which include plenty of time with our partner, AND our own interests/activities/career etc.


If you manage your personal boundaries WELL, you can handle a woman who doesnt handle her personal boundaries well.

If you cant handle your personal boundaries well, you WILL be taken advantage of, because you cant control the outflow, nor the inflow.
So in those instances, yes, it will be to a man's detriment.

Dont always look at 'what IS'. Try to get to 'what is best for us, what is it I want, and what I want it to be."

 

[Feek]

Thus, just because some women have more neediness than others, doesn't mean that ALL women will act that way with you.
And just because MOST men have poor boundaries and will always SACRIFICE their own well being and resources to 'keep her happy' does not mean it is correct or unavoidable, and that we simply have to settle for that, OR that we cant do something about it.

...

And we must develop the skills to balance our lives in harmony which include plenty of time with our partner, AND our own interests/activities/career etc.

Absolutely correct, and my point exactly. Men need to understand that by doing everything to keep her happy, they end up achieving the the opposite effect.

My best friend of many years has this exact problem, and I've seen it happen with him time and time again. Before he's dating a girl, he treats it as they're two separate people with their own lives. Once he's in a relationship with her, though, he does a 180 and she's his entire life. Everything is done to keep her happy, many times causing problems in his own life. And, after however long it takes - every girl has a different length fuse - she splits. Now, after reading a number of posts from guys on this board, I think a lot of people here would tell me to drop him like a bad habit, but there are many other reasons he's such a good friend, and I'll leave it at that.

I've counseled him on this, many times when he's right in the middle of whatever issue he's going through, but you can only show someone the path, you can't make them walk it. I had a very heart-to-heart conversation with him a few weeks ago, and I think a lot of what I said to him resonated and he seems to be fixing his own issues that are causing him to be like this.

Like Interceptor is saying, the key word here is boundaries. You must know what you want and be willing to take the necessary route to get it.

 

[penkitten]

i just wanted to ask the op one small question...
does she ever say anything about any other people that you hang out with or is it just this one chick that she doesn't want you around?

it is obvious that she doesn't want you around this particular chick because the chick and her ex cheated together.
however, if she doesn't ever say anything about any other people you may associate with.... i get the feeling that she really isn't trying to control you and pick your friends.
so if the assumption is correct and that she only is upset about this one particular chick, then you are left with 2 choices:
1. have her back on this and stop associating with this chick
OR
2. choose to ignore it... (and know that she will NEVER ignore it !!)

if you choose option 2, keep in mind , that although she may never know it, subconsciously this will be the root to your future arguments and fights and eventually you will break up. she won't even realize exactly how it happened, nor will she be wise to the fact that the particular girl will win this battle, even if you are not tempted to sleep with her.

 

[ketostix]

What I like to know is how does your friend know his GF's friend and her BF? It sounds like your friend's girl is still friends with her and hasn't cut her out even though she stole her former BF but is demanding your friend cut her off. And I'm with BibleBelt, just the way she worded the request sounds kind of manipulative.

 

[jophil28]

This is SERIOUS and KEY issue for women.



Women, when in relationships, specifically require their Men to choose them consistently over other people, in a sense.

In other words, she MUST feel you have 'her back'. And that if she has an issue with someone, like in the above scenario, you WILL CHOOSE her side.Usually, she is reasonable, and it is not a crazy request.

Thiat is usually true, however, in my experience it is a rare that a woman will show you the same depth of loyalty and priority if YOU have a problem with any of her friends or family.

 

[jophil28]

THe BF is saying, look not my fight, your problems are yours.

The GF is saying that once in a relationship, you should support each other.

So where do you draw the line?

As much as the "pragmatists" usually irritate me, I would go with them on this one .
The B/f simply needs to choose which girl he enjoys associating with the most and act accordingly ..His G/f or the slvt.

 

[KontrollerX]

You don't compromise.

Ever.

She bends to your frame and the minute she decides she doesn't want to there is the door b!tch.

Seriously get that compromise sh!t out of your head.

Or to put it another way...

If you feel you have to compromise with any chick to make a relationship work then you are probably with the wrong chick.

Good relationships flow easily without effort or much thought.

Bad relationships require constant work.

Oh yeah and stop watching Dr. Phil.

 

[Interceptor]

What's happening here, at its most basic level, is that the woman is wanting her man to not associate with people who have brought her pain in the past.
She feels that if her man were truly loving and respecting of her, and her needs and wants, thathe will seriously consider not, at the very least, bring her around the cheater female.
An not feel like he will be pvssy whipped, and lose status, respect, and control of the relationship.

It is about compromise.
But, the man has to decide what is more important, friendship and association with cheater female, or the warmth, love, and affection of his GF and relationship.
Just HOW important is that cheater female to him, versus, how important his relationship and his GF are to him?

The reason she asked him is because this is part of her NEEDS to BE in a ltr with a man.
And she is entitled and has the right to need that and ask for it.

The man doesnt have to obliege her, but she doesnt need to the stick around for a man who doesnt care about her and her needs.


So in her mind, she feels that a man that would love her would say "Of course, babe, Im not going to around some dumb broad who was cheating with your ex, and brought you pain. Fvck her. I dont give a damna bout that chick. I love you, and respect your feelings, of course I wont bring her around or hang around her. But I want to know also that youre not doing this as a powe play, right? That your not trying to dominate and control me and making me pick and choose, etc...that basically youre not ORDERING me, your man, that its ok to hang with that person and not hang out with this person etc....Because that would be really disappointing. You know I dont order you around and tell you who to hang out with, not to talk to, etc...
Because I try to trust you ,and give you that space and freedom, I hope, if you love ME...that youre doing this for the best reasons for us, not just to dominate me and order me around. Babe..Im your man, dont try to pvssy whip, ok? I wouldnt appreciate it. And I am hoping that this situation isnt like that with us. I respect you, I hope youre respecting me too.....'

And you lave it at that.
You let it sink in.

And you see how she reacts.

YOu have to always stand up for yourself, and be assertive,but you must develop a good sense of intuition about your woman and see if what she want is crazy talk, or shes being genuine.
If this is the woman you love, and want to be with, you owe her at least that much.

Many men feel afraid oflosing "power" in their relationships.

But in this case, if the woman is TRUE in that she loves this man, but doesnt want to be associated with that cheating female, she wants her Man to DEMONSTRATE his 'power' in this circumstance. And trust that she wont leave him for doing this for her.


With so many men having fragile relationships, that women leave you for 'no reason' at the drop of the hat, I can totally see how men dont want to become a fool, domninated or pvssy whipped, and lose their respect and status in the relationship.
Its a tough call.
Both sides need to be heard and understood...

 

[LovelyLady]

HereToLearn,

I wonder if you have asked your friend if he would feel she was worth staying in a relationship if the "shoe were on the other foot"?

In other words, if she were insisting on doubledating and hanging out with a guy who had cheated with/been a party to, a betrayal by an ex-girlfriend of his?

Afterall, he doesn't have a right to choose her friends, right?


---

A woman needs to feel the strength of her man. To know she can count on him to protect her. Every time he brings her around this girl she is hurt and in pain and anxious. Why would he want her to associate being with him with all those bad feelings?


She does not experience his choice as an exercise in his masculine freedom and power, but rather as a failure to protect her.


---

it is obvious that she doesn't want you around this particular chick because the chick and her ex cheated together.

however, if she doesn't ever say anything about any other people you may associate with.... i get the feeling that she really isn't trying to control you and pick your friends.

so if the assumption is correct and that she only is upset about this one particular chick, then you are left with 2 choices:

1. have her back on this and stop associating with this chick

OR

2. choose to ignore it... (and know that she will NEVER ignore it !!)

if you choose option 2, keep in mind , that although she may never know it, subconsciously this will be the root to your future arguments and fights and eventually you will break up.

she won't even realize exactly how it happened, nor will she be wise to the fact that the particular girl will win this battle, even if you are not tempted to sleep with her.

:yes: When he fails to keep her safe - she is left to source that protection from within - and in essence - be her own protective man/masculine energy. When we as women are left to be the man for ourselves while in a relationship with you - we ultimately realize you are not really "the man" in the relationship at all... and will move on until we find a man who will be The Man for us so we don't have to be both the man and the woman/masculine and feminine energy for ourselves (and ultimately also have to be the man for our boyfriend/relationship as well).

I agree with Penkitten that she may not know the "why" of it consciously - but she definitely knows enough to tell him that his choice is threatening her sense of safety and security in the relationship and her need to be protected by him, as her man, is not being met.

Clearly, she is choosing to still have him lead the relationship/he still holds the "power" as she continues to go with the boyfriend around the betrayer. But her heart of course will continue to shut down incrementally - and whose wouldn't? - if the shoe were on the other foot?

 

[Interceptor]

HereToLearn,

I wonder if you have asked your friend if he would feel she was worth staying in a relationship if the "shoe were on the other foot"?

In other words, if she were insisting on doubledating and hanging out with a guy who had cheated with/been a party to, a betrayal by an ex-girlfriend of his?

Afterall, he doesn't have a right to choose her friends, right?


---

A woman needs to feel the strength of her man. To know she can count on him to protect her. Every time he brings her around this girl she is hurt and in pain and anxious. Why would he want her to associate being with him with all those bad feelings?


She does not experience his choice as an exercise in his masculine freedom and power, but rather as a failure to protect her.


---


:yes: When he fails to keep her safe - she is left to source that protection from within - and in essence - be her own protective man/masculine energy. When we as women are left to be the man for ourselves while in a relationship with you - we ultimately realize you are not really "the man" in the relationship at all... and will move on until we find a man who will be The Man for us so we don't have to be both the man and the woman/masculine and feminine energy for ourselves (and ultimately also have to be the man for our boyfriend/relationship as well).

I agree with Penkitten that she may not know the "why" of it consciously - but she definitely knows enough to tell him that his choice is threatening her sense of safety and security in the relationship and her need to be protected by him, as her man, is not being met.

Clearly, she is choosing to still have him lead the relationship/he still holds the "power" as she continues to go with the boyfriend around the betrayer. But her heart of course will continue to shut down incrementally - and whose wouldn't? - if the shoe were on the other foot?

This is a wonderful post, LL. Yours too, Penkitten.


Again, whats happening here is that the same event are being looked at through different 'lenses' so to speak.

But when in a relationship, both parties involved should have each other's back.
And this is a requirement for the vast overwhelming majority of women.
It's just something that men have to get used to.

Most women NEED to feel protected.
We talk about this all the time. Rollo posts about this kind of stuff all the time.

And what's happening is that if a man is choosing another party over her, expecially when this other party is detrimental to one or both partners, the woman, if shes intelligent at all, will be amazed at how can such a man make that choice??
Choosing someone else over your partner, someone who is detracting and detrimental to either one, or both, and the relationship cannot be a sign of someone who really knows how to BE in an exclusive LTR.
It makes a woman feel like her needs are unimportant and trivial.
And if she feels that way, her trust, loyalty, respect and love rapidly will dwindle.
Its a sad fact.

She just feels like youre abandoning her, and she has no choice but to feel now more protective of herself than you and the relationship.

I understand, again, that men are wired not to project weakness.
EVER.
This is a fact, and it wont change anytime soon.

However, we can deal with it with accurate thinking, and prioritizing our life, and keeping our relationship a major priority and tending to it. And this means paying attention.
Yes, it is a stretch for most men.
Many men are just used to sitting on the couch with a beer watching Sports Center.
And thats ok.
But if you have decided to BE with someone, half assed is not going to be the most rewarding, and fulfilling experience for you and her.
So yes, in the above situation, the man is feeling threatend because he feels that his relationship is FRAGILE.
And as the "MAN" he CANNOT AFFORD to lose the respect and authority,and status in his relationship if he 'gives in' as in capitulates. Women have to see this as well.
Women have to realize that not all women in relationships are as evolved, matured, giving and nurturing, and understand of Men's PARTICULAR needs and methods of Processing...
What that means is that let us recognize that there are women, and Men, who CAN be very demanding, controlling and domineering to their partner.
And let's recognize that it's not kind, evolved, mature, secure, confident,and living behavior. Its about neediness and insecurity, and controlling the other person.
We dont want that.
NONE of us want that.
But again, if the woman is not operating from that paradigm, then a mature, secure man MUST make an effort to get deeper into the dynamic and figure out just what the heck is going on, and try to resolve it for the benefit of BOTH.
SOmetimes women DO just want you to come up with the answer, ok...
ANd sometimes we DONT have it.
But making an effort to communicate with your partner to resolve it and smooth things over is the First step, and is crucial.
Make the Effort.




But if she TRULY LOVES him, this is NOT what she is asking.
She is asking for protection from him, as her Man. Not for him to be threatened by her NEEDS.
Again, this is tough, because I think both parties WANT Their relatonship, but theyre not communicating in the best way for each other to deeply UNDERSTAND what each other wants...

The BEST analogy I think we can use is the "What if the shoe were on the other foot?"
and then truly think about how YOUR perception, judgement call, etc would change or not.

 

[LovelyLady]

Thank you , Interceptor.

 

[decades]

the GF is right. I would not trust this guy. She is listening to her gut and she is smart. She should find a guy who chooses his friends more carefully. Slut is code language for a woman who has no sexual boundaries. A woman (or man) who thinks sex is no big thing and why not have it whenever and with whoever you please, has weak boundaries and will cause huge pain for folks who are victimized by what is essentially sociopath actions. That's all a slut is. Given opportunity and circumstance, she would seduce the BF any day of the week (if it hasn't happened by now) and he knows it. And it's probably the only reason they are "friends".

If the shoe was on the other foot, I GArunT every guy here would be telling you to give "her" the ultimatum, commanding her to quit hanging out with the "playah" seducer DJ. But I am not advising she give him an ultimatum. My advice would be for her to say..."you know Dear Clarence, I don't hang out in situations where my gut is telling me something is "off". So unless my gut changes, and starts giving me the warm and fuzzies about this situation, I have to exit stage left. I ALWAYS follow my gut Clarence. I've known it for almost like foevah, and trust it Way more than people I've known a comparatively short time, like You."