How to proceed from here?

[OpenMind]

Ronin,

I have been in your shoes before and the best strategy in this situation is to just walk away. Let her come to you. She doesn't know what she has until you take it away from her. If she really has any serious feelings for you they will come right out when you are no longer available. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by OpenMind
Ronin,

I have been in your shoes before and the best strategy in this situation is to just walk away. Let her come to you. She doesn't know what she has until you take it away from her. If she really has any serious feelings for you they will come right out when you are no longer available. Good luck and keep us posted.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. What's funny is that I pretty much told her that I was done with her last night and then she leaves me a message (on IM) saying "I just wanted to tell you that I had a nice time last night". Whatever.

I've never had a girl tell me that I was everything she was looking for but that something didn't "feel" right. What a bunch of horsesh!t.

 

[iqqi]

I'm not sure exactly how I'll handle this. No real reason to totally next her - next time I talk to her I'll probably suggest that since she doesn't seem to know what she wants she should probably date around a bit - see what's out there. That ought to send the message to her that I'm done jumping through hoops for her. In the meantime I'm on to others.

ronin, this is exactly the right thing to do. girlfriend is stuck. she probaly doesn't want to be, but she is. and the best thing to do is let her go, for now. but firmly, nicely, and with the bridge intact. let her know that it is obvious she is "somewhere else" right now, and you want someone who is with you. above all be nice and respectful, and i guarantee it will be you as "the one who got away" in her mind later, when it is free and clear of MR. once a month jackass. but be firm. leave her ass alone for atleast a month or two, tell her you're busy if she calls, or just don't answer. disappear, you have to really let her have the space and lonliness to leave his ass for real.

 

[Ronin I]

UPDATE

This isn't worth starting another thread but I thought I'd follow up a bit.

So Fri. nite I pretty much tell her that we're done hanging out because although I think she's a great person we're obviously on a different page as far as where we want things to be headed.

So she leaves me a note on Sat (IM -I do not respond) and then she catches me online tonight. (I knew I should've blocked her - but to make a long story short her IM contact list is all of 5 people long - it consists of me and her family so when she gets online it is USUALLY to see if I'm on. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious to see if she wants to talk - I've seen her logging on a lot more often the past couple of days.)

Anyway, we make small talk for a bit - I tell her about the internship I just landed, blah, blah. I then basically just start making fun of her and tell her she has meaty feet (I gave her a foot massage Fri.) She acts all pissed and then says that I'm lucky I had a good day otherwise she would crack on me.

I tell her she ain't got nothin on me as I'm too cool (tongue in cheek).

She says that I'm cool when she says I'm cool.

Then she fires off with this one -

"You're problem is that I'm not as "easy" as you want".

This comment totally came out of the blue and I just reponded with:

"lol",

"speechless - no rebuttle".

She's like "well I guess I've accomplished what I want" and then says she's tired and heading to bed.



She's not "easy"? I wanted to say to her, "yeah you're not easy but getting into your pants shouldn't be harder than breaking into fort knox."

WTF?

It's like she's somehow trying to lay the blame on me that I don't want to hang out with her anymore. It's my fault because I want someone who is "easy". It's been three freakin' months! and I haven't gotten sh!t but excuses from her.

Unbelievable.

 

[KiInCollege]

Ah, you take her words at face value too much! Dont overlook that girls will say one thing to get you to think how they want.

Although, it looks like she's being more obvious in giving you hints about the problem she has with you.

Are you too forward for her? Do you try to subtly place pressure on her to up the ante, intimately?

It sounds like you have, and worse, it sounds like you tried to be logical and reason with her about it. Be glad you didn't say the Fort Knox line - do you think that would've made her give it up more, or reinforce her resentment toward sex with you?

What you've done right is you've backed off letting her know you want more. Use actions to influence her emotions from now on - never, ever try to reason her into having sex. It will backfire.

Consider dating someone else while you date her, but if she brings up that she wants to be exclusive with you, tell her you're just not convinced yet.

 

[drZaius09]

Ronin, this is so easy.

She feels guilty because she f*cked up a good thing with a good guy. She knows it's TOTALLY her fault, but in the same old tradition of women REFUSING to take ANY responsibility for their actions, she has manufactured an excuse (any excuse) to turn this around and make YOU look like an a$$hole. Now she's probably using the same line on all your mutual friends so she doesn't look like the manipulative c*nt that she really is. I'm sorry this is happening, but if your friends are even moderately intelligent they should be able to see right through her bullsh1t.

You need to cut-off all contact with this girl immediately. She is unstable and dangerous, if only to your reputation, which you should guard with your life.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by KiInCollege
Ah, you take her words at face value too much! Dont overlook that girls will say one thing to get you to think how they want.

Although, it looks like she's being more obvious in giving you hints about the problem she has with you.

Are you too forward for her? Do you try to subtly place pressure on her to up the ante, intimately?

It sounds like you have, and worse, it sounds like you tried to be logical and reason with her about it. Be glad you didn't say the Fort Knox line - do you think that would've made her give it up more, or reinforce her resentment toward sex with you?

What you've done right is you've backed off letting her know you want more. Use actions to influence her emotions from now on - never, ever try to reason her into having sex. It will backfire.

Consider dating someone else while you date her, but if she brings up that she wants to be exclusive with you, tell her you're just not convinced yet.

Trust me dude - I haven't been logical with her and tried to reason her into having sex. BUT, I have told her that I want and expect intimacy in my relationships with women.
Personally I don;t have a problem with telling a woman what I want. Some might disagree.

I am going after others - we are by no means exclusive nor would I EVER even consider being exclusive with someone who's not giving me any.

My actions to influence her will be to just be apathetic because at this point I am.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by drZaius09
Ronin, this is so easy.

She feels guilty because she f*cked up a good thing with a good guy. She knows it's TOTALLY her fault, but in the same old tradition of women REFUSING to take ANY responsibility for their actions, she has manufactured an excuse (any excuse) to turn this around and make YOU look like an a$$hole. Now she's probably using the same line on all your mutual friends so she doesn't look like the manipulative c*nt that she really is. I'm sorry this is happening, but if your friends are even moderately intelligent they should be able to see right through her bullsh1t.

You need to cut-off all contact with this girl immediately. She is unstable and dangerous, if only to your reputation, which you should guard with your life.

Dr. Z -

Wow - you're just a tad bit melodramatic for my taste.
I agree with you that she feels guilty that she f*cked up a good thing with a good guy. It isn't until something is gone or about to be gone that you start to appreciate it.
And yes, rather than blaming herself and feeling sorry for herself she rationalizes that I am to blame for (insert reasons here). This is human nature - men and women alike do this (although I would agree that women do it FAR much more than men).

We have no mutual friends. I have met some of her friends and if anything they have been telling HER that she has met a great guy and has been f*cking it up.

As far as her being unstable and dangerous - that's quite a radical diagnosis doc. Not sure I agree - she is a woman though so you're probably not too far off.

 

[Marquez]

Since you already did *everything* you could do, she has to act now. So do nothing, and give her the chance to act. Take a step back, and let her make a step. She needs it, and she is commiting to you by doing it. Always be positive/open/inviting (with your voice, not your words).

OK you do nothing. Do not contact her. Wait until she calls. Wait a little bit what she has to say. If only BS comes, ask her why she calls you (either in a friendly or in a c/f way). If she says "I just want to talk to you" or "I wanted to hear your voice", make some friendly or c/f smalltalk for some minutes.
If nothing like "I want to meet/see you again" comes from her, end the conversation after 10 mins max. Maybe she will call again, then repeat your routine. Do not tell her that you want to see her. If she calls the fourth time and still hasn't asked for a date, ask her why does she continue to call if she is not interested in meeting you.

In case she ever says she wants to see you again (it will happen if she is interested in you - think about it like "i am testing her real IL in me"): Agree on a location which is has a greater distance for her to go (ideally your place).
At the meeting, do not initiate any kino or kissing. Give her the chance to act. If she wants to talk about "the problem", tell her you don't see a problem. Tell her she is a nice girl. Maybe even tell her you just want to be friends Be serious if you say that.
Lean back. Relax. Be friendly. Wait what happens. If things get obviously sexual (initated by her! e.g. grabbing your crotch, telling you she wants sex with you): Act.

And last but not least, do not expect anything from her. Start seeing other girls.

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by Ronin I
We have no mutual friends. I have met some of her friends and if anything they have been telling HER that she has met a great guy and has been f*cking it up.

I was under the impression that the guy who told you about the "other man" was a mutual friend. Excuse my misinterpretation, it's been a while since I last read your original post.

As far as her being unstable and dangerous - that's quite a radical diagnosis doc. Not sure I agree - she is a woman though so you're probably not too far off.

She was so willing and eager to label you with such an insult to your face, just imagine what slander she fabricates when you're NOT around.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by drZaius09


I was under the impression that the guy who told you about the "other man" was a mutual friend. Excuse my misinterpretation, it's been a while since I last read your original post.



She was so willing and eager to label you with such an insult to your face, just imagine what slander she fabricates when you're NOT around. [/B]

Doc,

I'm not sure what insult you speak of -

do you mean this?

"You're problem is that I'm not as "easy" as you want".

I didn't really take that to be an insult. It 's more of the teasing banter that we have going back and forth. I tease her about her feet, about her being wacky, about all sorts of things. I EXPECT her to fire back at me once in awhile.

I'm not one of those who can dish it out but can't take it.

Marquez - you're advice is golden. I spoke to her online today briefly and almost buckled and asked if she wanted to do something later in the week. I regrouped and just busted her chops like I usually do. You are right, I have done everything I can do. Either she makes a move towards me or she doesn't. Bottom line - what I HAVE been doing hasn't been getting the desired results with this one so I should reverse gears completely.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Hell, why not try moving on and letting her know it. Subtly let her know that you like the girls you're getting now, because they're so easy.

 

[MDgood]

I bet if you were to dig into her past you'd find she had an emotional or sexually abusive male figure. Obvious red flag: She has no problem giving it up to a jerk, and then immediately leaving him, because giving it up to a jerk is the only way she feels like she's gained acceptance by a guy. Good, stable guys just don't "do it" for her. It's a mirror image of the other sexually abused women I've known in my life.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by MDgood
I bet if you were to dig into her past you'd find she had an emotional or sexually abusive male figure. Obvious red flag: She has no problem giving it up to a jerk, and then immediately leaving him, because giving it up to a jerk is the only way she feels like she's gained acceptance by a guy. Good, stable guys just don't "do it" for her. It's a mirror image of the other sexually abused women I've known in my life.

Hmmmm..... interesting point. This seems right on to an extent. The last time we hung out we talked about dreams and nightmares. She told me about a nightmare she used to have about her father attacking her with a knife. From what she has told me her father is a very large, domineering man. I wonder if this isn't the emotionally abusive figure you speak of.
I hate to read too much into dreams - they can mean all sorts of things.

Nonetheless, it's food for thought.

 

[Marquez]

I want to make the concept behind my advice clear. If it does not work out with her, you will achieve much better results with the next lady if you realize what went wrong with this one.

Ronin, when women say "We are moving to fast", which is the meaning behind "I am not as easy as you like me" (after 2 1/2 months of "waiting"), they really mean: "You did not wait for me to make my steps."
What does this mean? In a _human_ relation never only one person makes all the moves. She makes the first step by showing her interested. You do your first step by initiating the conversation. She does her step by responding well (means: "ask for my number!"). You do your step by asking for the number. She does her step by giving it to you. You call her. She shows interest. You ask her out. She touches you during the date (means: "I am interested - kiss me!"). You kiss her.
And so on.
At some point she will show that she is ready for sex. Then you act.

I guess you do not wait for her steps. The jerk does by being totally disinterested. So she falls into the trap of doing all the steps - and gets caught "in love". In reality it's not love. She never waited for actions showing genuine interest from his side. But she imagines he showed, since she already is at a point where under normal circumstances he would have shown it.

You are in the same position, with roles reversed. OK she is interested in you. But did you ever wait for her actions to make that clear? Did you ever wait for her "I am ready that you initiate the next step"-signs? Or did you just advance to the next levels, oblivious that you alone are doing all the moves?

Remember: Her step - your step - her step - your step - her step - ...
If you follow that law, you can end in bed with her in no time, and she does not feel "we are moving to fast", because she only feels that when you do not wait for her actions/signs.

 

[MDgood]

She told me about a nightmare she used to have about her father attacking her with a knife. From what she has told me her father is a very large, domineering man.

Yep, Ronin, that's what I'm talking about. That's just not normal. When younger a girl is supposed to be feeling a strong loving attachment to her dad (just like a boy does to his mom). She didn't feel love towards him, she felt terror, and now like Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a dinner bell, she feels acceptance when she's in the presence of a major, controlling, a$$hole. Same with the abused women I know... it's so sad, actually. By contrast, every girl I know whose dad was kind, patient, considerate, and understanding to them turned into self-confident women with high self-esteems, who were in turn respected by the guys they dated.

This woman has some serious issues, none of which are her fault to begin with. She's gotta learn that she can trust you. I dated a girl with a domineering dad once, and I helped her get to trust me (although not entirely... sheesh!) by simply coming out and talking to her about it.

Doesn't seem like a DJ move, I know, but this girl just may fall into the catagory of being an exception to the rules. Dude, no woman should ever have nightmares about her dad chasing her with a knife.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by Marquez
I want to make the concept behind my advice clear. If it does not work out with her, you will achieve much better results with the next lady if you realize what went wrong with this one.

Ronin, when women say "We are moving to fast", which is the meaning behind "I am not as easy as you like me" (after 2 1/2 months of "waiting"), they really mean: "You did not wait for me to make my steps."
What does this mean? In a _human_ relation never only one person makes all the moves. She makes the first step by showing her interested. You do your first step by initiating the conversation. She does her step by responding well (means: "ask for my number!"). You do your step by asking for the number. She does her step by giving it to you. You call her. She shows interest. You ask her out. She touches you during the date (means: "I am interested - kiss me!"). You kiss her.
And so on.
At some point she will show that she is ready for sex. Then you act.

I guess you do not wait for her steps. The jerk does by being totally disinterested. So she falls into the trap of doing all the steps - and gets caught "in love". In reality it's not love. She never waited for actions showing genuine interest from his side. But she imagines he showed, since she already is at a point where under normal circumstances he would have shown it.

You are in the same position, with roles reversed. OK she is interested in you. But did you ever wait for her actions to make that clear? Did you ever wait for her "I am ready that you initiate the next step"-signs? Or did you just advance to the next levels, oblivious that you alone are doing all the moves?

Remember: Her step - your step - her step - your step - her step - ...
If you follow that law, you can end in bed with her in no time, and she does not feel "we are moving to fast", because she only feels that when you do not wait for her actions/signs.

Ok - Marquez- so you are saying that I do not wait for her steps. Fair enough. But how long is one supposed to wait? The traditional role of the man is to pursue - so I have.

I kind of understand what you're saying with the steps thing but the jerk isn't TOTALLY disinterested. He shows enough interest to get her number and call her and then go out with her at least once.

As far as advancing to the "next step"- I guess that all depends on what the next step is. Am I ready to have sex with her? -hell yes! Am I ready for something more serious - maybe. But I am quite conscious of the fact that she isn't - or at least she hasn't been showing signs that she is.

Anyway, I like this post - and the back and forth steps theory.

No one should feel like they are doing all the work.

 

[RazzleDazzle]

Ronin, your my hero man. You are pursuing your own life, accomplishing your own goals, growing in confidence, and you still have girl problems. If that isn't the story of man I don't know what is.

Onto your problem. I don't have much experience in the whole "she doesn't want to give it up for some odd unexplainable reason". I will tell you that your infatuated with her. Not completely, sounds like you've learned that hard lesson from your past oneitis. Good for you, better everyday. This is the hard part though. Nothing great has never been accomplished without a lot of effort. This girl must have a lot going for her to have your attention like she does.

The only thing that would explain her is that she really does have an emotional problem. She says she has a great time with you and that your the perfect guy (attractive, ambitious, intelligent, etc) and loves to hang out with you and...wait this is starting to sound really odd. Do you think it's possible that she doesn't think she is good enough for you???

Wait for her to initiate the next move. You already are doing this so way to be. Keep us updated.

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by RazzleDazzle
Do you think it's possible that she doesn't think she is good enough for you???

This would be a first in the history of all woman-kind.

I agree with every other assessment you made. I do think this girl is emotionally disturbed, and I do believe Ronin is infatuated with her. Hence the reason he can't see she is disturbed (or perhaps just refuses to believe it) and why he continues to come back here looking for the answers he wants to hear.

 

[RazzleDazzle]

He comes back because of hope. That last ideal that takes for ever to kill off. Hope, i wish hope appeared in every situation but women. They don't deserve our hope, and it's rare that that hope happens.