How to proceed from here?

[Ronin I]

Background is on this thread...

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30417

OK so I've been seeing this girl (let's call her HBK) for over 2 months now and haven't really been able to get anywhere with her physically.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why and tonight I found out why (at least a little bit).

So tonight I'm out at a bar and I see HBK's best friend's husband come in with his friends.

We've met one time when I hung out with HBK and her friend at their friends house about a month ago. Me and him got along real well as he is a good guy and I get along well with most people.

Anyway, we shoot the sh!t for awhile and the "me and HBK" situation comes up in the convo.

I proceed to tell him how I've not really been able to get anywhere with HBK. That whenever we hang out she goes frigid on me and doesn't seem to want to take it anywhere.

He spills the beans. He says "has she talked to you about anybody?" I say "No". He says "well there's this guy Tim. He's sees her about once a month" I said "Really?" He says "Yeah, he's 31, he has a 6 yr old daughter and he's a real manipulative jerk. HBK says that she doesn't really like him but...." "Me and T(his wife) have been trying to tell her that she's screwing up becuase she's finally met a nice guy and she's screwing it up"

Anyway this guy goes on to tell me that HBK doesnt like this dude yet she spends time with him (about once a month) and that he's a jerk and this and that. He tells me how he manipulates HBK and uses his daughter to do so, etc, etc.

HBK has nothing good to say about this dude to her best friend yet she still hangs out with him and he is still fvcking with her head.

Gentlemen, I do not mean to toot my own horn here but I am succesful, good looking, and an all around good guy and yet this girl won't let me in because some a$$hole has got her fvcked up in the head. Makes you think.

Anyway, I'm really not sure as how to proceed from here.

I do really like this girl. But, I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle. I've been playing the DJ, and have not been too available, have been a challenge, etc. but this obviously hasn't served to take her mind off this dude.

I'm not sure what to do. I am not the type to just give up - when I see something I want I go and grab it - fvck everyone else. At the same time I understand how it can be to be totally hung up on someone (my oneitis is what brought me to this board in the first place).

I could just lay back, date other girls (there is ONE other girl that is really into me that I could pursue) OR I could turn up the heat on HBK and really give her something to think about.

Deep down I know she likes me but she's letting herself get manipulated by this other guy. If I really pushed it, I'm sure I could step in and cut that sh!t off - I'm just not sure if that's the best course of action.

Should I let her make up her own mind? Or should I be more proactive about things and force her hand?

Opinions are welcome.

 

[squirrels]

...

Is she worth the drama?

 

[Ronin I]

Re: ...

Originally posted by squirrels
Is she worth the drama?

Well, that's what I'm trying to decide. At this point in time I really do like the girl. To be completely honest about the situation I'm not 100% sure if I really do like her OR if I'm spurred on by the challenge (probably a little bit of both). I am conscious of the fact that my IL has skyrocketed the more trouble I've had getting with her. But at the same time she has many of the qualities that I would want in a future g/f / wife.

The thing is that I've been playing it cool for 2 1/2 months now and my patience is wearing very thin.

I feel that I should either call her on her bullsh!t or just forget about her altogether because to continue as we have been just doesn't do it for me. Quite frankly it just isn't fair to me to keep hanging out and talking with this girl (and possibly growing to like her more and more) if the feelings aren't mutual.

Hell, I am honestly thinking about just telling her how she is just plain fvcking up. Seriously, guys like me dont grow on trees and I have shown genuine interest in her and she is fvcking it up by not reciprocating.

Part of me says that as a DJ I should just lay back and play it cool and let things play out. I mean she does still want to hang out with me. But at the same time, I'm not happy with what I'm getting from her - from that perspective it's probably best that I just move on. Problem is - I don't take well to losing. I am very competitive by nature. If I'm playing a game to 21 and I'm down 20-0, I'll still play my hardest because there is still a chance. It ain't over 'til it's over.

 

[Mazman]

Just tell her you'd like the releationship to go further, but she doesn't seem to be interested. Ask her to tell you flat out if she wants to continue since you feel like you're just wasting your time.

I wouldn't bring up the other guy though.

I wouldn't exactly tell her she's F'ing up by not proceeding with the releationship either.

 

[Crotch Sniffer]

No disrespect Mazman, but that is crap advice.

Ronin, DONT tell her how you feel! It ruins everything! Kino the hell out of her and get her turned on. Find out the things that piss her off about this guy and make him look like a loser! Should be pretty easy from the sound of it. Have you even tried to kiss her yet? If all else fails, give her lots of attention and then disappear for a while. make sure she sees you with another HB. I had a similar situation and did all of the above and scored. In hindsight it was a bad move because it cost me a great friendship...so also keep in mind that there are risks and really decide if this is what you want.

Let us know how it goes

 

[Mazman]

Originally posted by Crotch Sniffer
No disrespect Mazman, but that is crap advice.

Ronin, DONT tell her how you feel! It ruins everything! Kino the hell out of her and get her turned on. Find out the things that piss her off about this guy and make him look like a loser! Should be pretty easy from the sound of it. Have you even tried to kiss her yet? If all else fails, give her lots of attention and then disappear for a while. make sure she sees you with another HB. I had a similar situation and did all of the above and scored. In hindsight it was a bad move because it cost me a great friendship...so also keep in mind that there are risks and really decide if this is what you want.

Let us know how it goes

"I do really like this girl. But, I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle. I've been playing the DJ, and have not been too available, have been a challenge, etc. but this obviously hasn't served to take her mind off this dude. "

It sounds like he's already doing all that stuff. He's come to a point where these things aren't working and he's just tired of it.

 

[Crotch Sniffer]

Maybe you are right. I would say for him to move on, but I think he will regret it. Ronin, take one last stab at this, try for a make-out session at least! If she snubs you, so what? Let her live in her miserable world with her crappy pseudo-BF and move on. At least you will walk away knowing you did your best.

to quote th infamous Gunwitch

"Make the ho say no!"

 

[Azariah]

Danger, Danger, Will Robinson

You haven’t painted a hopeful picture, Ronin. I took a few moments to carefully review the history of this situation. The standard “Ultra-Magic DJ Bag of Tricks™” for getting women isn’t going to be of much assistance here.

Let me make sure I have the key points here:

1. HBK has been running hot and cold since you met her. (I could make a whole list out of this point alone)
2. She responded very well to verbally busting her chops, as you reported in your “car shopping” story.
3. Her friends are now telling you that she’s caught up on a manipulative creep who she only sees once a month.

The sirens are wailing in my head like the Russians were pointing missiles at me from little tropical island in the Caribbean. How much do you know about this woman’s past? I know you said that she has only had one serious boyfriend in the last five years. Was he abusive? From everything I’ve heard so far, my suspicion is that she was abused as a child (probably psychological in nature) and is stuck in the cycle of abuse. If this is the case, you’d have better chances of converting the Pope to Judaism than winning this girl away from Mr. Manipulative.

I’d check my suspicions about her past with a reliable source. It sounds like the friend’s husband is a straight shooter. If he has that info, he’ll tell you. If I’m right… run for the hills!

If I’m wrong… well… you’re still probably going to lose. You’re playing second fiddle to a true Jerk. Some women are just Drama Queens who “need” to be unhappy in their relationships. Some desire that boy who is a pet project for them to fix. I’d be genuinely surprised if HBK doesn’t fit into one of these categories.

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by Ronin I
Makes you think.

Best not to let it.

I do really like this girl. But, I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle.

It is an uphill battle, and a losing one at that. Somebody asked you 'is she was worth the drama?'... I think you need to think harder about that question. I think you'll find that she's not. Who could be? This other guy is always going to be lingering in the background if he's got that kind of grip on her.

I'd probably have a different opinion if she was at least giving up some ass. But the only logical conclusion is that if she's not giving it up to you, she's giving it up to him. Ipso, factso (sp). If you were both getting some, then no problem. But you're putting in the overtime without the time and a half, if you catch my drift.

The only thing you can do, if you feel it's worth an extra push, is give it that one last extra push. If you continue to encounter resistance, lock the ball in the equipment shed and go home. NEVER mention this other guy nor your conversation with your friend. In fact, try to keep all conversation to a minumum from this point out.


]

 

[Ronin I]

Got this email from her this morning (10am)-

"Ronin,

Hey, I just wanted to tell you that I won't be around to hang out much in the next few days. My grandmother died this morning, and plans are being made for the funeral services. I also have the wedding for my cousin tomorrow night, so things are pretty busy...and sad. I know you understand. We'll talk soon I'm sure. HBK"

So that pretty much puts things on hold for awhile. Interesting how she thinks to email me soon after she gets the news about her grandma. We haven't spoken at all since Sunday.

Crotch Sniffer - yes I have kissed her - each and every time we hang out. But she goes cold on me in a hurry.

Dr Zaius - you are right - I have to figure that she's giving it up to this dude and not me. That in and of itself really pisses me off. BUT, she really doesn't try and USE me like other women would (I am NOT her emotional tampon). In all the time I've known her we've only had one semi-serious conversation.
Although one could argue that she is using me for just for "company" since she doesn't see this other dude too often.

Bottom line - I'm sweating this too much. She's a good girl and everything but whatever. I just keep telling myself that GOOD girls are hard to find and that I should put a little extra effort in to this one (which I have) so I'm kind of putting her on a pedestal (not above me - but above other women) and truth is I don't know her well enough to really now if she belongs on that pedestal.

I guess what's really bothering me is that I had the same thing sort of happen with my ex-oneitis - she cheated on me and got completely hung up on some guy who was widely recognized as a "jerk" by those who knew him. I am not a jerk. BUT, I am not some slobbering, wussy, nice guy either. I am a gentleman. I carry myself with pride, I treat people with respect, and I am generally well-liked. What is it with these girls that get themselves hung up desperately trying to please some a$$hole? Very frustrating.

Oh - another point - she's been seeing this guy for only about 5 months - so I really don't know how many times she has actually hung out with him.

I don't know. Definitely seems like a lost cause. An interesting experiment would be if i started being a d!ck to her and see how she reacts. I don't think I'll even waste my time with that though.

 

[Jay_VCU]

Ok, her grandma died. That's not good. If she likes her grandma(who doesn't) and is real messed up about the whole thing. This is the time to make yourself scarce even thogh you might not want to. In about two weeks go over there and kiss her brains out. If she doesn't go for it, let her go.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by Jay_VCU
Ok, her grandma died. That's not good. If she likes her grandma(who doesn't) and is real messed up about the whole thing. This is the time to make yourself scarce even thogh you might not want to. In about two weeks go over there and kiss her brains out. If she doesn't go for it, let her go.

Agreed. There is a part of me that wants to go over there and console her and whatnot but I know that is not a good idea. I don't want to be associated with those negative feelings.

Maybe just a quick email/phone call saying I'm sorry for her loss?

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by Ronin I
Although one could argue that she is using me for just for "company" since she doesn't see this other dude too often.

One could very easily make that argument. It's happened to me plenty of times.

... I'm kind of putting her on a pedestal (not above me - but above other women)

She really shouldn't be on a pedestal above anyone, whether yourself or other women. You can see that her judgement of character is weak, and her self-esteem is obviously low, does that merit a pedestal of any kind? Seems nowadays that whenever a woman agrees to go out with you and speaks politely to you, all of a sudden she is a "nice girl" worthy of exemption for any bullsh1t behavior.

I'm not trying to swing you in one direction or another. This girl looks like a lot of trouble to me (then again, which one isn't?) But you've put in a good amount of time and I would hate to see that all go to waste. Unfortunately I can't shake the feeling that this is a lost cause. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.

 

[es_mer8]

It sounds like you are heading down a road to inevitable failure. She is seeing a man once a month. Odds are that she will continue to do so. I doubt it lasts more than that because the man probably just wants a good **** and she is the ***** to do it with. I think whats going to happen is that you think you are getting into a deep relationship but really, she is going to continue seeing this guy. Will she leave him? Doubt it, she sounds like she is not all there mentally.

My advice is give her an ultimatum. The way I see it is that there is no DJ-esque way to pull this off. Not an ultimatum I guess but call her on it. This relationship is doomed to hell so you might as well just lay it down. Tell her "Do you think this relationship is going anywhere or is it just a waste of my time?" She will be stunned but she knows that you know. Thats enough for her to decide if she wants to cut it off with you ie continue ****ing this dude on the side or if she is willing to cut the guy off to make it work. If she has low esteem, you're probably ****ed. She may decide to break it off but whose to say if she doesn't meet up with him later down the road or maybe she will find someone else?

Just remember what the great Ludacris said "You can't turn a ho into a housewife, hoes don't act right"

 

[Donny Brasco]

I was going to pass this one up, but its to easy. Say thanks and move on, I know some of you will feel bad because you think all of the girls on the world are saving themselves for me, but guess what?????


This is to much drama for 1 girl who is obviously a little phucked.

I have a feeling your hooked though, like heroin, you can't say no.

 

[trevjr]

It is very easy for others to tell you to move on but, when you are the one it is very hard sometimes.
I had a woman who had an ex who she saw once a week 'just as friends'. Well she told me she left him because he was abusive. I think this caused her to stop calling me because somehow she is still entangled with him.
This girl sounds like she doesn't have much self esteem. I also think that she is in a pattern of abuse and it is hard for her to stop. All you can do is be the great guy and then be scarce and hope she will figure out that she likes being around you more than him. It doesn't appear like a hard choice but for abused people it can be very hard.
I would not mention at all that you know about this guy. I also think this is one of those situations where one has to be flexible with the DJ rules. Sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[Pheonix:ScndrlReborn]

You don't know the value of water until the well runs dry.



She just doesn't realize what a good thing she has with you. She is taking you for granted. Let her see you flirting a little with other women. Just verbally. No reason to piss her off, just make her jealous a little. Don't go on any dates with her for a little while.

Eventually she'll come around. Just don't next her yet. It seems you guys are too quick to suggest that, when just a little more effort will bring results.

 

[Azariah]

Under most circumstances, I think that you're right. People around these parts are too quick to issue the recommendation of "Next!" It's understandable though. For those who are feeling powerless in the dating game, telling a women to hit the road is a neccessary confidence building exercise. But in this case, Ronin has been involved with this woman for two and a half months. I personally think that's enough time to accurately gauge a pattern of behavior. This woman has constantly been sending Ronin back here seeking advice. While I haven't suggested giving her the boot just yet, I also don't think she's playing "hard to get" at this point.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by Donny Brasco
I was going to pass this one up, but its to easy. Say thanks and move on, I know some of you will feel bad because you think all of the girls on the world are saving themselves for me, but guess what?????

This is to much drama for 1 girl who is obviously a little phucked.

I have a feeling your hooked though, like heroin, you can't say no.

Hehe - not exactly Brasco but close. I definitely feel a case of oneitis possibly developing - I won't lie about that. Having recently been inflicted with oneitis I am very familiar with the symptoms and warning signs. I am going to head it off at the pass though.

I am absolutely amazed at myself that I let this girl get this far under my skin. I vividly remember when I picked her up for our first date - checking out her ass and thinking that it was a lot bigger than I originally thought - basically I was kind of unimpressed. Also this girl isn't the brightest bulb on the tree but I rationalize that as being cute - innocent and naive.

Anyway it all comes down to this girl sending me mixed signals, hot and cold, playing hard to get (albeit unintentionally), cancelling dates, and whether she realized or not employing many of the DJ tactics on me; and even though I'm a budding DJ - they worked like a charm. I have watched my IL skyrocket while hers has remained the same or even dipped a bit. She has beat me at my own game without really even trying .

Oh well - chalk it up as another learning experience.
I've said it before and I'll say it again -

You always want what you can't have.

I'm not sure exactly how I'll handle this. No real reason to totally next her - next time I talk to her I'll probably suggest that since she doesn't seem to know what she wants she should probably date around a bit - see what's out there. That ought to send the message to her that I'm done jumping through hoops for her. In the meantime I'm on to others.

I don't need this sh!t. Lately, I can pull chicks almost at will. I don't need to be stressing over this silliness.

Anyway, it is ON tonight fellas. I feel a rockin' night of sargin brewing inside of me.

 

[Ronin I]

UPDATE

Well I'm a stubborn SOB and decided to give it one more shot with this girl - and it was pretty much the same result.

We went to dinner at a nice place by the lake.

She came clean to me about this other dude last week - said that she has been trying to just be friends with him for awhile now and that he isn't even a good friend so she decided to cut him out of her life completely. I took this to be a good sign.

Anyway, after dinner we go back to her place and she shows me pictures from her trip to Europe. Then she pops in a movie and we trade back massages.

But again every time I go in for a kiss, we kiss for a bit and then she just pulls away.

So a little later we're laying on the couch and I just flat out ask her what's up. She says for some reason she feels "awkward" in those situations. She says that something just doesn't "feel right".

She says that she hasn't been in a situation like this. That she's been on a lot of dates in the past 3 years and usually it's just one date and it's over (no chemistry or whatever) or she goes too fast and crashes and burns with the guy. So basically she doesn't like the guy at all and nothing happens or she likes the guy and gives it up right away .

She then goes on to say that she has fun whenever we hang out and that she would like to continue to do so. I say that that is not the only thing that I'm looking for. I say that it's not just about sex but about intimacy - although they often go hand and hand. That when you establish an emotional connection with someone that the physical part should follow. She continues to say that she doesn't understand what it is. I say I don't understand either. She strokes my ego a bit by telling me that I "have everything" (meaning looks, ambition, personality, etc) and that she just can't figure out what her problem is. I agree with her, shrug my shoulders and decide to leave before the movie ends.



Oh well. Apparently she wants me to be her girly friend but there will be no more of that.