How to have a successful marriage in 2015 in the USA

[Skip To My Marriage]

Nvm

 

[logicallefty]

Oh come on now, don't leave us hanging.. Do tell..

 

[sodbuster]

I read it, don't remember it.... so take from that what you will

 

[Young OG]

Don't get married, that's how

 

[glass half full]

marriage in America is a joke these days.

 

[Julian]

Hahahah not wifing up these hoes. Oh I met you on tinder? Lol yeahhhh

 

[Epimanes]

A good marriage is possible... I am in one. Its not good 100% of the time.. But what relationship is? There will always be ups and downs.but can you weather the downs is the question.

 

[G_Govan]

A good marriage is possible... I am in one. Its not good 100% of the time.. But what relationship is? There will always be ups and downs.but can you weather the downs is the question.

This issue with marriage isn't the ups and downs, that's unavoidable in any relationship.

It's the potential a--raping you get in court as a man if it doesn't work out.

Outside of some religious belief, marriage doesn't provide anything that can't be obtained outside of it. It's a legal document that gives one person (typically women) "leverage" over the other should there be a divorce.

There have been threads asking what the point of marriage is today and almost no one could give a straight answer. Even though they may not say it aloud, most men get married to obtain regular sex. However, it tends not to work out that way sooner or later.

 

[Lexington]

Any man who marries for regular sex in this day and age is incredibly stupid. There are some advantages to marriage. A 2 parent (heterosexual) household is the best arrangement for raising children. There are some tax incentives. Also, certain social circles (the more elite ones) require a man to be married. Why do you think George Clooney got married to a post-wall lawyer? This will provide him many advantages as his acting career winds down.

If one chooses to marry, there are some guidelines to follow:
-Find a woman with a very low partner count (preferably 0)
-The woman should be family-oriented i.e. wants to have children and makes motherhood her main priority
-She should come from an intact family and have good relations with her parents
-She should have a college degree (women with college degrees have a much lower probability of divorce)
-She should be from an upper middle class background or higher (divorce is most common among the poor and middle class and it is much rarer in the upper echelons of society)

-A solid pre-nup should be signed well in advance of the wedding
-Put money into trust funds for your kids. That way, in the event of a divorce you can be certain that the money will go to the children and not to her post-divorce shopping spree
-Continue to improve your SMV: keep lifting weights, be sociable, keep making money
-Dread game: your wife should know that you are highly desirable and that you could easily replace her if she were to stray. This will of course increase her attraction for you and make it less likely that she will divorce you.

-Keep traditional gender roles. No matter what women say, they are turned off by stay at home dads and they will resent you if they bring home a lot more bacon than you do. Women want to feel like women and you must take the lead in the relationship as a man.
-Make sure you have a good lawyer. Most men who got divorce raped had awful representation. A lot of wealthy men might lose a lot in a divorce, but not so much that they are ruined. For example, take Elon Musk and the CEO of Standard Oil. Their ex-wives got huge payouts, but it made only a small dent in their fortunes.

Bottom line: the power lies with whoever has more power to walk away. Make it a **** deal for her to leave you.

 

[Tenacity]

Lexington,

Good list, but you can't EVER make it a bad deal for her to leave you, that's impossible unless she's the breadwinner of the relationship. There's also no such thing as a solid pre-nup, a pre-nup is not insurance.

You are right in the statement that the power lies in the one who has more power to walk away, but understand that the MOMENT a guy (of financial means) signs a marriage contract, he's lost that power. While he can still "get away" he won't be "walking away" that's for sure, more like limping or crawling away.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Skip to my Marriage,
Your first revelation..."How to have a successful marriage in 2015 in the USA",your second,how to nail jello to the ceiling?

 

[Lexington]

Lexington,

Good list, but you can't EVER make it a bad deal for her to leave you, that's impossible unless she's the breadwinner of the relationship. There's also no such thing as a solid pre-nup, a pre-nup is not insurance.

I agree that a pre-nup isn't insurance but it can minimize the damage. The problem is that for most husbands, if the wife walks its a nuclear-level disaster. After losing 50% of your assets, alimony and child support, you're in big big trouble. Every divorce will sting, but an iron clad pre-nup plus other asset protection mechanisms can make it much less sweet deal for her.

In addition to the financial aspect, if you are a high status, wealthy and game aware man, your wife is unlikely to be able to branch swing to a better deal. That's especially true if she has a kid or two. Additionally, among the more affluent there is still some stigma to divorce. She's going to think twice if she knows you won't have any problems replacing her.

You are right in the statement that the power lies in the one who has more power to walk away, but understand that the MOMENT a guy (of financial means) signs a marriage contract, he's lost that power. While he can still "get away" he won't be "walking away" that's for sure, more like limping or crawling away.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily that bad assuming you protected your assets and you have a good lawyer. Take Elon Musk for example. He divorced his wife and she did get more money than most people will ever earn in a lifetime but today his net worth is higher than ever. Right after divorcing her, he started dating a 27 year old actress. Another example is the oil billionaire Harold Hamm. His wife got $1 billion. Sure it sucks, but he has a net worth of over $10.2 billion. He just shrugged it off.

Of course, those are multi billionaires but I also know doctors, lawyers, corporate executives etc. who got divorced. While they did take a hit, they were able to fully recover and the divorce didn't ruin them. When you know that a divorce won't ruin you, her threat of walking isn't as big a deal.

In most cases of divorce rape, the husband was a beta chump, in bad financial shape and didn't have good legal representation. As we all aim to be our best selves, none of those things should be the case if any of us get married.

I'm not advocating marriage here. I'm not married and have no plans to get hitched any time soon. But there are ways to mitigate risk and make it a worthwhile endeavor. Rollo Tomassi is happily married as are some others in the Manosphere.

 

[guru1000]

Prior to marriage, if one were to (1) create a SPOT irrevocable trust; (2) place all assets into this trust; (3) act as trustee and name a family member as beneficiary, holding the "power of appointment" to transfer beneficiary or trustee to a third party at any moment; and (4) include a trust clause stating that under moments of duress, trustee and "power of appointment" powers are automatically transferred to an off-shore trustee (name a trustee in the documents who has no allegiance to the U.S. and thus need not follow US judge's order in case a Judge attempts to pierce the trust)--then, your assets will be 100% safe in any divorce. It's unlawful to "freeze" or hamper any assets in the U.S. that violates the trust documents as long as the trust's activities are lawful. In other words, a trustee has to authorize the release of trust assets, which will not occur with an off-shore trustee not subject to U.S laws, thus unable to be sanctioned.

Anybody care to argue the above?

One could argue, why even get married, if you would have to go through the whole hassle named above. I agree, however, I think any affluent individual should commit to the above irrespective of marriage.

I mention this exit route as I am tired of hearing war stories of financial ruin relating to divorce.

 

[Tenacity]

Lexington,

So maybe you can help convince me of something because, other guys I debate marriage with on here fail to do so and then just resort to personal name calling. So let's break this down. You made some of the following statements:

....I agree that a pre-nup isn't insurance but it can minimize the damage.

.....I wouldn't say it's necessarily that bad assuming you protected your assets and you have a good lawyer.

....I also know doctors, lawyers, corporate executives etc. who got divorced. While they did take a hit, they were able to fully recover and the divorce didn't ruin them.

You acknowledge that there is the potential for SOME LOSS if the marriage goes sour, now it might not be a Chapter 7 bankruptcy type of loss, but some type of loss to where the loss at least stings. So how about based on this notion, let's just throw out an arbitrary percentage of saying if I get divorced I stand to lose 10% of my wealth in the form of court costs, lawyer fees, asset splits, etc.

Keeping this 10% loss figure in mind, my question to you Lexington is what am I getting directly from the decision of signing a marriage contract that makes taking on the risk of losing 10% of the wealth that I have personally busted my a.ss to accumulate (from being homeless) worthwhile?

Some guys have this notion of, "Well, I have $300k in the bank so I can stand to lose $30k (10%)." And this mentality is so insane to me because I don't know about these guys, but I had to bust my a.ss for every single penny I have made. I appreciate the value of ONE DOLLAR. I have ran a Sales Office for going on 9 years and it has been complete and utter hell to make every single PENNY that I have made and accumulated over this period of time. There's absolutely no fvcking way in hell I would say that losing 10% of my wealth means nothing because I can just "go make it over again" like there's a damn money tree in my back yard I just need to go shake. It's complete and utter non sense but let me not turn this into a rant.

Lexington, tell me buddy, if I do this marriage investment with the chance to lose 10% of my wealth should it go sour, what are the rewards, gains, opportunities, cost savings, or ANYTHING that I would obtain DIRECTLY from the marriage contract that I can't get outside of it, which would warrant the investment? Can you please tell me?

If the answer is NOTHING, then answer the next question, of why in the hell should I risk losing 10% of my wealth that I created on my own with no help from anybody (especially the chick I'm marrying), with NO DAMN potential benefit of risking the loss? It's almost like I'm saying, here's 10% of my shyt, if I lose it who cares! The sun will shine tomorrow! That's bullshyt

 

[Poon King]

For me.. the word "husband" and the word "idiot" are interchangeable. :crackup:

 

[Reyaj]

Lexington,

So maybe you can help convince me of something because, other guys I debate marriage with on here fail to do so and then just resort to personal name calling. So let's break this down. You made some of the following statements:







You acknowledge that there is the potential for SOME LOSS if the marriage goes sour, now it might not be a Chapter 7 bankruptcy type of loss, but some type of loss to where the loss at least stings. So how about based on this notion, let's just throw out an arbitrary percentage of saying if I get divorced I stand to lose 10% of my wealth in the form of court costs, lawyer fees, asset splits, etc.

Keeping this 10% loss figure in mind, my question to you Lexington is what am I getting directly from the decision of signing a marriage contract that makes taking on the risk of losing 10% of the wealth that I have personally busted my a.ss to accumulate (from being homeless) worthwhile?

Some guys have this notion of, "Well, I have $300k in the bank so I can stand to lose $30k (10%)." And this mentality is so insane to me because I don't know about these guys, but I had to bust my a.ss for every single penny I have made. I appreciate the value of ONE DOLLAR. I have ran a Sales Office for going on 9 years and it has been complete and utter hell to make every single PENNY that I have made and accumulated over this period of time. There's absolutely no fvcking way in hell I would say that losing 10% of my wealth means nothing because I can just "go make it over again" like there's a damn money tree in my back yard I just need to go shake. It's complete and utter non sense but let me not turn this into a rant.

Lexington, tell me buddy, if I do this marriage investment with the chance to lose 10% of my wealth should it go sour, what are the rewards, gains, opportunities, cost savings, or ANYTHING that I would obtain DIRECTLY from the marriage contract that I can't get outside of it, which would warrant the investment? Can you please tell me?

If the answer is NOTHING, then answer the next question, of why in the hell should I risk losing 10% of my wealth that I created on my own with no help from anybody (especially the chick I'm marrying), with NO DAMN potential benefit of risking the loss? It's almost like I'm saying, here's 10% of my shyt, if I lose it who cares! The sun will shine tomorrow! That's bullshyt

I'll answer your question without any shaming or name calling etc... This is just based on my reality..

Most quality women and men who want a family are going to want a commitment and thus marriage will be the goal, especially for women. Whether its either Church, government or both... these help enforce the commitment.

Let me guess your response/thought now... "But why do I need a paper from the government to prove that etc...." Just re-read my above paragraph... It helps enforce the relationship and provides security so that either party won't leave the relationship for something trivial or something not worth sacrificing the foundation of the family.

Now if you don't have goals or aspirations of starting a family then marriage probably isn't necessary.

 

[YawataNoKami]

How to have a successful marriage in 2015 in the USA?

Here in this country? No man.Too much risk,too little rewards.

Better move to Saudi and convert to islam.

 

[Tenacity]

Reyaj,

I'm in BOLD

I'll answer your question without any shaming or name calling etc... This is just based on my reality..

Most quality women and men who want a family are going to want a commitment and thus marriage will be the goal, especially for women. Whether its either Church, government or both... these help enforce the commitment.

Can you not have a commitment outside of the marriage contract? Secondly, you are saying one of the leading reasons to get married is social programming and social pressures? Basically, it's the "way" it's supposed to be done? You graduate high school, go to college, graduate college, get a decent career, get married and make children. That's the path, and if you don't follow it then people in your social circle might look down upon you. That's what you are saying, correct?


Let me guess your response/thought now... "But why do I need a paper from the government to prove that etc...." Just re-read my above paragraph... It helps enforce the relationship and provides security so that either party won't leave the relationship for something trivial or something not worth sacrificing the foundation of the family.

There's no security or anything at all stopping the person from leaving over minor inconveniences due to the No Fault Divorce Amendment. You can get married today on 7/21/2015 and be divorced (or at least separated) come 9/21/2015 only two months into the damn thing. There's nothing stopping your spouse from leaving you just because you sign this agreement.

Now if you don't have goals or aspirations of starting a family then marriage probably isn't necessary.

Once again, the social programming comes back into play.

Notice that you never listed ONE REWARD that comes to the guy from signing this contract? You only lists what society expects you to do, well, what if you don't do what society expects you to do in this regard? Are there missed opportunities that you are going to have? Will you be kicked off the Family Trust Fund? Will you be banned from certain circles? I'm still looking for the direct reward, opportunity or LOST of opportunity avoidance that one would have by signing a marriage contract? I can make a family outside of the agreement as you already know, and as I pointed out the NO Fault Divorce option makes it so that your wife (just like your girlfriend) can still walk out the damn door literally at anytime.

So I'm still back to the same question, what is the direct reward that a man is going to get from signing a marriage contract that he CAN'T GET without signing it, which makes the RISKS of said contract going sour worthwhile? I have been on this Forum for over a year asking this question, nobody from the "Pro-Marriage Crowd" or "All Marriages Aren't Like That Crowd" has listed any rewards to date.

You guys just respond and either call me names or you dance around the direct question, because the honest truth is there ARE NO rewards! The reason a guy gets married is social programming and social pressures, period. He gets married because he is socially PUSHED into it and he derives no damn direct benefits from it whatsoever that he didn't already have or couldn't get outside of the marriage contract. That's the truth and you guys know it because you can't list one reward he gets from signing the deal.

 

[FairShake]

My advice for marriage is wait until you're middle-class and wait until you are older.

Most people I've known who have married when they fall into these categories are still married. Most of those who married before falling into these categories (like myself) aren't. There seems to be a very strong correlation between being more secure in life with being more secure in your relationship/marriage.

I'm different from most on here in that I think that a good marriage is far better for a man than a bad marriage AND no marriage. I believe constant good companionship promotes better physical and mental health in people. Unhealthy vices are nature to us all but the lonely have more time to and less sanction against engaging in them. I actually think it's even better for a man when considering the sloughing off of male friendships as one gets older and the lack of nurturing in male friendships in general (not that I'd want dudes to nurture me!).

That said, I reiterate, wait until you are older and wait until your are comfortable. Old enough to have seen the world and know how you like your world so you can find a mate that suits it. And comfortable enough to handle stresses that drives so many couples apart.

I freely admit that perhaps happier people have happier marriages than unhappy people and that is what fuels the general "better" statistics regarding married people vs. single people. Perhaps causation is correlation in this particular point. Maybe I will amend it to "wait until you're middle-class and wait until you are older and wait until you are relatively satisfied in life."

 

[Lexington]

As I said, Tenacity, I am not advocating marriage. I am not married and have no plans to get married in the near future. But there are some who see benefits to getting married. You're not going to get far in certain elite circles without marriage. For example, try being a successful politician in this country without being married. It sucks I know, but in many elite circles, an unattached man is viewed with suspicion. Some also use marriage to secure alliances with wealthy families etc. This is quite common in the political world.

A committed relationship between the parents is the best context in which to raise children. We have centuries of evidence to support this claim. This is also a reason for many to get married. While it's true that one can have children without getting married, a lot of quality women won't accept this deal. Not just that, there are tax and other legal benefits to marriage. Even if you don't marry the mother of your children, there is no escaping child support.

Yes, marriage is a risk. But I think the risk is somewhat overblown here. Yes divorce rates are very high but that doesn't uniformly apply to all parts of society. Divorce is much more common among those who married very young, who are very poor and those in the lower middle class. If you were to marry a 25 year old college-educated girl from a wealthy Catholic background, the odds of divorce are much lower for example. Divorce is rarer among the more affluent.

I know many of us have seen what women are capable of (myself included). But not every single female interested in marriage is a carousel riding slvt looking for her Beta Bucks. Yes, there is some degree of risk with marrying any female but these risks can be mitigated. I am engaging in much bigger risks right now. I'm starting a business. If my business succeeds, I stand to make millions. If it fails, I will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Again, I'm not advocating marriage. But it's quite clear to me that it is possible to have a successful marriage in America in 2015. I see plenty of evidence in my personal life and in the statistical data. It is a shame that marriage is failing in middle and lower class America, but the institution is still mostly functional in the upper classes. I'm not planning on becoming a hood rat any time soon!