How to get broad/wide shoulders?
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MetalFortress
Master Don Juan
Weighted pull-ups are the best exercise for the upper back and lats. No question about that. Weighted chin ups are also great for doing both those and biceps at the same time. Surprisingly, front squats are also great for those muscles.
MetalFortress
Master Don Juan
Standing.
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brucevangeorge
Banned
ROWING MACHINE. Its the best, works the ENTIRE back.
Im on the rowing team and some of the seniors have absolute MASSIVE back development. Theyre like giant slabs of beef on the side. (yes even the chicks although its not very attractive) The standard V taper with a very trim waist. You want a great back. Take up competitive rowing. Or a rowing machine.
I prefer rowing though. Its an awesome sport.
Im on the rowing team and some of the seniors have absolute MASSIVE back development. Theyre like giant slabs of beef on the side. (yes even the chicks although its not very attractive) The standard V taper with a very trim waist. You want a great back. Take up competitive rowing. Or a rowing machine.
I prefer rowing though. Its an awesome sport.
MindOverMatter
Master Don Juan
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also known as the exercise most likely to give you rotator cuff injury that will prevent you from ever having big shoulders. also avoid behind the back military press.
Warboss said it best. Military Press / Dumbbell Shoulder press for delts on shoulder days, and heavy deadlifts on back days will take care of your traps.
MindOverMatter
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i like to alternate them. one week standing, another week sitting. I personally prefer sitting as it makes it harder to cheat.
I thought that the bent over variety held that title
. And heh, could testify to that on trying them once...However personally, i've not found the upright variation to be a problem, assuming we're both talking about this -
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html
Nor have I found an exercise that hits the shoulders as well as them (military press... just doesn't seem to hit the spot, though could be an error in technique...).
But, you know your stuff, feel free to throw some alternatives at me, shoulders are definetly a lagging area... I need cannonballs, but at the moment i'm playing golf.
MindOverMatter
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i know several people who have gotten injured with upright rows. they're not that bad when you're doing them with lower weights, but when you start doing heavy ones, it's really easy to injure your rotator cuff.
also, it's more of a trap exercise then a delt one with a close grip. if you were going to focus the upright row on your delts alone, you'd have to use a wide grip which would increase the chances of an injury.
if you're having problems with your traps, try just deadlifting for a while and ignore the trap exercises. they will get bigger. if they don't, add in some DB shrugs.
as for your delts, i always liked pre-exhaust training with them. id do 2 sets of lateral raises, then 2 sets of military press to failure, then 2 sets of static lateral holds afterwards.
the military press is key. make its numbers go up, and you will get the big delts.
a static lateral hold is where you do a lateral raise rep, but instead of letting the weight down and completing the rep, you hold it, and keep it there for as long as possible. after you finish these, your delts are good to go, and you need some protein asap.
the static lateral hold is an imitation of a gymnist exercise (rings), if you look at men who compete in the ring event, they all have very powerful delts for their body frame ( http://www.olympic.org/upload/sports/disciplines/main/gy_ga_main.jpg )
also, it's more of a trap exercise then a delt one with a close grip. if you were going to focus the upright row on your delts alone, you'd have to use a wide grip which would increase the chances of an injury.
if you're having problems with your traps, try just deadlifting for a while and ignore the trap exercises. they will get bigger. if they don't, add in some DB shrugs.
as for your delts, i always liked pre-exhaust training with them. id do 2 sets of lateral raises, then 2 sets of military press to failure, then 2 sets of static lateral holds afterwards.
the military press is key. make its numbers go up, and you will get the big delts.
a static lateral hold is where you do a lateral raise rep, but instead of letting the weight down and completing the rep, you hold it, and keep it there for as long as possible. after you finish these, your delts are good to go, and you need some protein asap.
the static lateral hold is an imitation of a gymnist exercise (rings), if you look at men who compete in the ring event, they all have very powerful delts for their body frame ( http://www.olympic.org/upload/sports/disciplines/main/gy_ga_main.jpg )
Thanks man, interesting thoughts, particularly with the static holds. I'm gonna throw your suggestions into my routine.
Currently I do shoulders with Chest/tri on my 3 day split, and generally end the session with them, so I guess I should move them ahead of tris'.
Currently I do shoulders with Chest/tri on my 3 day split, and generally end the session with them, so I guess I should move them ahead of tris'.
MindOverMatter
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I've had the same problem. Doing shoulders after chest-tris made my progress on the military press slow as hell.
I then moved my shoulders to my leg day, and never had that problem again.
So I completly recommend:
day 1 - chest / triceps
day 3 - back / biceps
day 5 - legs / shoulders
this way your delts / tris have time to recover from your day 1 session, and you can give them a nice and focused workout.
I then moved my shoulders to my leg day, and never had that problem again.
So I completly recommend:
day 1 - chest / triceps
day 3 - back / biceps
day 5 - legs / shoulders
this way your delts / tris have time to recover from your day 1 session, and you can give them a nice and focused workout.
Well, i used to do the same thing... but in my new gym the instructors told me that legs & shoulders (lower & upper muscles) should'nt be exercised together.... so should i switch back to legs & shoulders or continue chest,tricep & shoulders ? i've just worked out for 6-7 months.
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MindOverMatter
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see it's sh!t like that which makes me have no respect for the personal trainers in various gyms. there's nothing wrong with doing shoulders on a leg day.
if your shoulders feel too tired after chest and tris to properly handle military presses, then you wont make progress on them. you will make progress on chest and tris, but your delts will be the lagging body part. for me, working out 3 muscle groups in one day always ends with one of them lagging.
once I placed my shoulder exercises on my leg day, i was able to give them a dedicated and focused workout, and that was when i started making tthe best gains. i was able to handle much more weight on my military presses, and progress a lot faster through the weight ranges.
The key to putting on mass, is making your compounds go up in weight (without sacrificing form), eating, and sleeping. Like Warboss said, if you can military press for 200+ with good form, you wont complain about your shoulder size.
if you are doing military press on your chest/tri day, and it's not going up at the rate other compounds are, then it's time to switch it up.
focus on making the numbers go up, eating lots, and getting enough rest, and the body WILL follow.
if your shoulders feel too tired after chest and tris to properly handle military presses, then you wont make progress on them. you will make progress on chest and tris, but your delts will be the lagging body part. for me, working out 3 muscle groups in one day always ends with one of them lagging.
once I placed my shoulder exercises on my leg day, i was able to give them a dedicated and focused workout, and that was when i started making tthe best gains. i was able to handle much more weight on my military presses, and progress a lot faster through the weight ranges.
The key to putting on mass, is making your compounds go up in weight (without sacrificing form), eating, and sleeping. Like Warboss said, if you can military press for 200+ with good form, you wont complain about your shoulder size.
if you are doing military press on your chest/tri day, and it's not going up at the rate other compounds are, then it's time to switch it up.
focus on making the numbers go up, eating lots, and getting enough rest, and the body WILL follow.
Sweetcheeks
Don Juan
There's some good advice here, some less good advice, too.
I think it's going to be difficult to seperate the useful advice from the less effective stuff. I'll add my own advice, and hope it those that take it find it useful.
First of all, "wide shoulders" are a relative term.
Shoulders that are wide for a fellow that is 5 feet tall will look narrow on a fellow 7 feet tall. The taller you are, the broader your shoulders need to be to look wide.
Also, the appearance of width depends also on how thick a person's waist is. Given the same width shoulders, a person with a 28 inch waist will give a better impression of width than a person with a 36 inch waist. Trim down your waist size, and your shoulders will look wider, even if they aren't.
The way to actually make yourself wider is to build your shoulders (Deltoid muscles), specifically the lateral head. You CAN isolate the lateral head, but isolation exercises (like dumbell side raises)tend to limit you to light weights, and light weights do less to stimulate growth than heavier weights do.
The heaviest exercise for the shoulders directly would be the seated barbell shoulder press in front of the body. The standing press is good, but the disadvantage of doing the exercise standing are twofold:
1. Your body is less stable standing than sitting, so your nervous system is busy dealing with the work of keeping you balanced on your feet in addition to actually lifting the weight, potentially reducing the poudages
2. There is the added problem of the tendency to add momentum by bobbing your knees and hips to get the weight moving (cheating)
The standing press has its uses, however. The extra work of balancing the weight is useful for athletes that need to exert force from a standing position (football players, boxers, shot putters), and the body learns to integrate the use of the legs, hips and waist into exerting force and channeling it through the arms. It is also useful to use the legs to get the more weight than you can lift in a positive contraction in order to do negatives (An advanced technique that I will not get into)
So, SEATED BARBELL PRESSES is the answer. As to how much weight you should use, make sure that you work with a weight that enables you to use a full range of motion, namely lifting from around clavicle level to full lockout.
Research in many textbooks has shown that a repetition range of 8-12 reps is ideal for muscle hypertrophy (growth). Less than 6 reps is more effective for building strength (Less growth), and more than 15 reps is effective for building local muscle endurance (Lactic acid tolerance). I recall reading somewhere that less than 5 per cent of strength trainees can do a seated press with their body weight.
For an overall growth stimulus, however, it is useful to stimulate a full body anabolic hormone cascade. That is where exercises like squats and deadlifts come in. In order to stimulate the release of testosterone, as much muscle in the body as possible must be recruited to work at the same time on a movement, and these two exercises use more muscle mass simultaneously than any other exercise. Start out with squats and/or deadlifts with about as much weight as you can reasonably handle for the rep range suggested, to get the anabolic juices flowing.
Any lat work to get the v-taper going will help create the illusion of width, as well, without directly contributing to shoulder width. If you flare out your lats, if they are well developed, they will naturally expand and push your arms and shoulders out (but not, generally, when you are relaxed). The best way to develop your lats would be through chinups (Weighted, assisted, whatever you can handle) and, strangely enough, the aforementioned deadlifts. The function of the lat muscles are to bring the arms from front to back (Flexion), to bring the arms toward the midline (Adduction) and, although few people know, to extend the lower back (or maintain a back extension position)
Although big strong traps are very useful in protecting the neck and for expressing total body strength, overdeveloped traps can actually make the shoulders look more narrow.
Good luck.
I think it's going to be difficult to seperate the useful advice from the less effective stuff. I'll add my own advice, and hope it those that take it find it useful.
First of all, "wide shoulders" are a relative term.
Shoulders that are wide for a fellow that is 5 feet tall will look narrow on a fellow 7 feet tall. The taller you are, the broader your shoulders need to be to look wide.
Also, the appearance of width depends also on how thick a person's waist is. Given the same width shoulders, a person with a 28 inch waist will give a better impression of width than a person with a 36 inch waist. Trim down your waist size, and your shoulders will look wider, even if they aren't.
The way to actually make yourself wider is to build your shoulders (Deltoid muscles), specifically the lateral head. You CAN isolate the lateral head, but isolation exercises (like dumbell side raises)tend to limit you to light weights, and light weights do less to stimulate growth than heavier weights do.
The heaviest exercise for the shoulders directly would be the seated barbell shoulder press in front of the body. The standing press is good, but the disadvantage of doing the exercise standing are twofold:
1. Your body is less stable standing than sitting, so your nervous system is busy dealing with the work of keeping you balanced on your feet in addition to actually lifting the weight, potentially reducing the poudages
2. There is the added problem of the tendency to add momentum by bobbing your knees and hips to get the weight moving (cheating)
The standing press has its uses, however. The extra work of balancing the weight is useful for athletes that need to exert force from a standing position (football players, boxers, shot putters), and the body learns to integrate the use of the legs, hips and waist into exerting force and channeling it through the arms. It is also useful to use the legs to get the more weight than you can lift in a positive contraction in order to do negatives (An advanced technique that I will not get into)
So, SEATED BARBELL PRESSES is the answer. As to how much weight you should use, make sure that you work with a weight that enables you to use a full range of motion, namely lifting from around clavicle level to full lockout.
Research in many textbooks has shown that a repetition range of 8-12 reps is ideal for muscle hypertrophy (growth). Less than 6 reps is more effective for building strength (Less growth), and more than 15 reps is effective for building local muscle endurance (Lactic acid tolerance). I recall reading somewhere that less than 5 per cent of strength trainees can do a seated press with their body weight.
For an overall growth stimulus, however, it is useful to stimulate a full body anabolic hormone cascade. That is where exercises like squats and deadlifts come in. In order to stimulate the release of testosterone, as much muscle in the body as possible must be recruited to work at the same time on a movement, and these two exercises use more muscle mass simultaneously than any other exercise. Start out with squats and/or deadlifts with about as much weight as you can reasonably handle for the rep range suggested, to get the anabolic juices flowing.
Any lat work to get the v-taper going will help create the illusion of width, as well, without directly contributing to shoulder width. If you flare out your lats, if they are well developed, they will naturally expand and push your arms and shoulders out (but not, generally, when you are relaxed). The best way to develop your lats would be through chinups (Weighted, assisted, whatever you can handle) and, strangely enough, the aforementioned deadlifts. The function of the lat muscles are to bring the arms from front to back (Flexion), to bring the arms toward the midline (Adduction) and, although few people know, to extend the lower back (or maintain a back extension position)
Although big strong traps are very useful in protecting the neck and for expressing total body strength, overdeveloped traps can actually make the shoulders look more narrow.
Good luck.
Keeper
Master Don Juan
Anyone tried pro swimming? I heard that also does the job well.