How to deal with being attracted to your female friend...

[Grey Fox]

This might help.

Think of a hot woman in a club or any place. Now picture a bunch of guys all trying to get her attention, and all acting like AFC's save one.

What the AFC's do:

Over complement, yes-man mentality, seeking to impress and starving for her attention. Along with the classic fear of making the first move hang up. To them she looks like a goddess

The DJ's actions:

He is of the mind that she must impress him. His attention is fleeting, he doesn't see her as a goddess just another woman he can easily walk away from if she doesn't measure up. The DJ can compliment, but rarely and only if its truely deserved. Though he is not afraid to flirt either, but its done so teasingly. Of course the DJ is confident and ****y, just as quickly as he can charm her he can say something funny that disarms the infamous ***** shield.

To boil it down simply: Buddy-Buddy, LJBF buddy= Non sexual vibe
Your aiming for a sexual undertone to things, you're a buddy but indifferent to her obvious charms, you become the charmer she should seek you out.

When you pull this 180 on her its going to get her wondering, and you keep the game up, and little by little you show her things but draw it out and be mysterious. Let her see that romantic side slowly, like its behind a series of curtains that she has to pass through. Dont be impossible just make her work a little, and be sure to encourage her and at times toss some obstacles to inspire her i.e other women that compete for you.

-Grey Fox

 

[DonWon]

Originally posted by Grey Fox
This might help.

Thanks again for the perspective. You know, outside of her, I haven't had a problem being ****y and cavalier. I was aloof with her these past two days. It definitely does work! I was trippin b/c I didn't act jerkish...but moreso too busy for her, which probably struck her differently. She called me today asking if I needed anything while she was out and to confirm tomorrow's resume building - she's trying to get me in where she works at. It was only for this reason that I called her back - otherwise I was leaving it be, as advised. Anyhow I talked to my guy today b/c I was catching up to him. He tells me that she called his crib asking for me (b/c my cell is off and that I had called her from a different number). When I called her back she tells me how she finally got a chance to talk to my friend and that now that she has his number and that they had a good conversation. I asked her what about (to front like I really cared) and she's says to not worry about it (as expected). I say that he doesn't need anymore friends and to not even worry about getting to know him. She says she'll let him tell her that and I say I'm delivering the message for him (again to act like she's mine...another front like I want her exclusively). I was wondering if this was the right play b/c I know that acting territorial towards women can work in your favor - they dig you wanting them to yourselves...I do it when my one friend all the time. She eats it up whole. I wasn't sure if it was time to do it with this chick, but I figured what the hell. Anyway, she calls me back on the cell that I'm using and I miss her call. I return it b/c I need to make sure if it's about tomorrow or not. She asks why I didn't pick up. I blow her off about how I've been so busy and that I called her when I could and "what's up" She then says "Look I don't know what you think this is, but I run this show, okay?" I quip back, " I don't know what other men you're used to talking to like that, but I'm not them, and I'm not the one, so I thought you should know that". She had to backtrack some and then she wanted she says that she was going to ask me something but never mind. I say okay and I let her talk to my friend (dial) Tone. She calls me back wanting to know if I wanted to come by and watch some movies. I tell her that I actually have some things to do, but I can make some time to spend with her when I get the chance (haha!). I see her tomorrow. So the game begins...

Any new thoughts? (Man this board is fun)

 

[Grey Fox]

A good start.

Its looking good so far, playing the game of give and take very well. You have shown signs of interest and signs of disinterest as well. But now the real games begin.

The most important thing is to remember that the whole thing is just starting. She has shown a little interest but that doesn't mean you have won the war so to speak....

When you are at the resume thing tomorrow with her. You want to seem like you have definately been busy. The first thing out of your mouth should be something like "Hey, let's get this cranked out fast so I can get some free time." Naturally she'll quip back, take it in stride and quip back but with the focus of moving on to the task at hand. Remember your there to get something done not play pals. While you are working on the resume, let her occassionally break the work up when she naturally asks questions. She will trust me. If she says she wants to hang out and watch some movies at her place, agree but set it up for a weekday because you got plans this weekend.(If she has a friend you both now, make plans with her. She'll find out and you can kid her about "we'll you talk to MY friends, why can't I meet one of yours?") If not just say you have plans reguardless.

Being that im a glass is half full kinda guy, lets assume you two end up watching movies at her place. I'm going to go against the grain here and say "DON'T USE KINO AT THIS TIME." You heard me right, instead don't lay a hand on her. Just sit and watch the movie, have a good time, tease and be playful. If you can move the conversation in a sexual direction do so playfully. Tossing these mixed signals is going to drive her nuts. If she starts leaning on you its okay to put your arm around her. But let her feel she has earned it by being daring by seeking out your attention. Let her up the tempo as much as she wants, and just when she thinks she has you in bed....Thats the time to cut out.
Build up the anticipation, and then deny her the oppurtunity to see it through will only drive her crazy. But it has to be done right, you have to cut out playfully and at the same time showing that she has tempted you a little, show a little interest let her peek at a vulnerable side. You are simply just giving her imagination fodder to build you up and want you more. The point is each encounter should let her see a little more of you, interest her, all while allowing you to figure out if she is really worth it.

-Grey Fox

 

[DonWon]

Well this outing went nothing like I expected. I had very little chance to flirt or do the resume. An unexpected family visit prohibited this. She did go shopping the day prior and laid some panties,bras/and T-shirts on her bed in front of me. She's done it before, and I didn't want to read too much into it. I'm thinking women will do this in front of their guy friends that they become comfortable with. I'm not sure. What I did was pick some up and twirl them around and she comes and grabs them and tell me to "get back to work" (on my resume). She doesn't say it in an upset manner, such as like I violated her personals...I tell her that I can look at them if I want...and that it was ok - that I would look at em later. We talked a little bit. I was trying to get ****y, but I lost a little focused b/c she can switch up her talking technique in which she enunciates her words very clearly and slowly (to get her point across) and she ends up pouting her lips in this 'so-sexy' manner that is just too much. My eyes ended up drifting toward her lips. I can't tell if she noticed or not. Damn, she has some sexy lips. I did the eye contact. I like to gaze and give a ****y smile at the same time. I also tried some kino - I hopped on her bed and sat very close to her. I also touched her leg (she was wearing pants) while in the living room. Anyway, her relatives come over that keep things to a minimum. I ended up having to take her moms somwhere and since I had to go home, I went straight there w/o going back to her place. I did gather enough info to do my rez on my own, so I don't have a reason to call her - this will give me the chance to be out of the scene for a while. I imagine my next move is to simply email my resume to her and keep the contact to a minimum. All in all, it was semi-successful. I would have liked to have tried more, but I settled for what I could get. I guess we're at a standstill now. I'm sure she will send me an email today.

 

[DonWon]

Hey Grey Fox,

I'm not sure how to call this. Now I'm not so sure that there is any progress to be made or if she is either disinterested and/or playing dumb.She calls me today at work, which is normal, and I get in my flirt mode, and somewhere in there she mentions "friend" and in her emails today she uses "buddy".

ICK! I take a shot at her by raggin on her and she comes back on the fact that I can't say anything until I open my mouth and tell my mystery woman something. Either way, I made some game remark to her and she said that I should focus my energy for luring mystery woman and to not worry about her, b/c she'd be alright.On one hand, I'm inclined to believe that she might suspect me based on the rumors that her brother/mom let on, and on the other hand she acts like she has no clue...like my mystery woman and her are two separate women!

What do you guys think?

 

[Grey Fox]

First off what was her tone when she said friend, was there a negative edge in her voice? When said you couldn't say anything until you opened your mouth to your mystery woman, did it sound challenging or mocking?

Its never what is said, its how its said and how she acts that speaks the truth. More importantly how do you feel, and how well do you know her. Is she the kind of girl that will come straight out and say you have no chance if she thought you were trying to court her? Or is she shy and weak about such things.

Let's assume somethings. First she knows, and second she is not uninterested, if she was she would have just come out and said it, believing you to be to weak to every come out and ask, she'd save you and her the trouble.

Now from what you have told me, this sounds like a challenge coming from her. She now expects you to either back down and slump away, or directly come out and say you are interested. Me, I hate being predictable, I like the element of suprise as it gives me an advantange of seeming powerful, orginal, and very cunning. But using suprise is risky and not for the faint of heart. Are you willing to risk your chances with this girl in hopes of sweeping her off her feet? If so then you may want to try this out.

The next time she calls and you joke around about your mystery woman I want you to do this:

You: "You know you are right, I really should say something to my mystery woman, I think the time for games are over." Take half a second to guage her reaaction, if there is silence over the phone we know she knows and is waiting for you to do something. The with all the ****iness, confidence, and courage you can muster say this "So I really focusing my attention on her like you said, so I'll talk to you again once I turn my mystery woman into my woman." Hang up after that.

For the next 4 days don't take her calls, read her emails but don't reply. Don't call her, don't reply to her emails. Then on the fifth if she calls in the morning, talk to her, she probably be a little mad that you havent talked to her. Just be friendly and ask her whats up, she'll probably want to hang out or something since you haven't talked in those past days. Wheither is suggests it or you suggest it doesnt matter just as long as it is suggested. She'll naturally want to know what you want to do and say "We'll lets watch some home movies and i'll cook up some dinner." Prepare a good meal, but keep the atmosphere casual, bust out some decent wine or whatever you two like to drink. Naturally you'll talk, and she'll want to know about your mystery woman since you have not talked about her yet. Then her is what you say, and you better be confident and proud of yourself when do this. I mean no matter whether it works out or fails this is an act of courage you can smile about down the road.

"Oh her, well I've been playing some games with her. But games no matter how fun have to come to an end at some point as we both know. You are my mystery woman and I want to drop the games with you and date."

No matter what she says after that you reply confidently and directly. Even if she doesn't want to date you she will respect that you had balls.

Like I said earlier I think you have been challenged here and I don't think she is being negative towards you I think she is justing testing you. What ever it is you do, the point is that now is the time to end the game with her. Either you two win, or she loses out. Let me know how things go I'm cheering for you.

-Grey Fox

 

[DonWon]

Originally posted by Grey Fox
First off what was her tone when she said friend, was there a negative edge in her voice? When said you couldn't say anything until you opened your mouth to your mystery woman, did it sound challenging or mocking?

She never says it in a negative tone. She definitely said it in a mocking tone...she always has". It really irks me b/c it seems like she's trying to help me get her, and that she's not her.


b]bIts never what is said, its how its said and how she acts that speaks the truth. More importantly how do you feel, and how well do you know her. Is she the kind of girl that will come straight out and say you have no chance if she thought you were trying to court her? Or is she shy and weak about such things.[/b]

I know her very well. We are really close. I've known her for 5 years. She's a wonderful woman. I think that if she wasn't interested, that she would try to let me down easy. She's that type of woman to not want to hurt someone's feelings. I know she really values me as a friend (ugh!) - she's says it all the time.

Let's assume somethings. First she knows, and second she is not uninterested, if she was she would have just come out and said it, believing you to be to weak to every come out and ask, she'd save you and her the trouble.

Now from what you have told me, this sounds like a challenge coming from her. She now expects you to either back down and slump away, or directly come out and say you are interested. Me, I hate being predictable, I like the element of suprise as it gives me an advantange of seeming powerful, orginal, and very cunning. But using suprise is risky and not for the faint of heart. Are you willing to risk your chances with this girl in hopes of sweeping her off her feet? If so then you may want to try this out.

I like the idea of surprise. I'm willing to take this risk. I'm sure that whether she said yes or no that I would be alright....disappointed and hurt, yes, but I'd live. It's not like she's mine now anyway, so it wouldn't be anything new. I always intended to tell her b/c I can't keep this in. How was always my concern. I'm not afraid of rejection from her, although I definitely want to avoid it if possible. It might sound contradictory - basically what I'm saying is that I haven't foregone telling her because of fear of rejection, even though I am anxious about that possibility. I haven't been able to think of a way to do it that I like, and your suggestion is simple, and it might be the key for me. I can finally get that monkey off my back.

The next time she calls and you joke around about your mystery woman I want you to do this:

I really like this idea. I have been trying to get her over to see my place...to no avail. I've been in my place almost a month and she still hasn't seen it. If getting her over there was that easy...She likes to ask me to come to her place...but she lives with her mom and her brother(s). I'll figure something out. I know that I'm going to have to tell her soon because my advances have escalated in the past month to where one could definitely see that I'd be interested in her. I have been playing out of sight too, for balance.

No matter what she says after that you reply confidently and directly. Even if she doesn't want to date you she will respect that you had balls.

Not to be pessimistic, what do I do if she declines? I'm imagining that I could try to play it off, but what do I say, and how do I act towards that? I'm sure that I could continue being the same with her, but I'm just wondering. I'll definitely let you guys know when this sparks. I'm going to wait for her next tease about me keeping it secret. She loves to do this when I speak ****y and talk full of myself, which I'm prone to do. She also likes to mention this 'twitch' situation all the time to take a stab at my confidence. Whenever I speak confidently, she mentions one time she met me at the library. I was with my girlfriend at that time. Shee happened to come up there and she was looking gorgeous. As she was talking to me, we were doing our typical back and forth with each other. She comes out of the blue and says "Your eyes are getting big. They're getting real big? Why is that?" When she says this, I get a little razzled because I know what dilated pupils mean. I was flustered and I tried to play it off, but it didn't work. My eye or upper facial area near my eye twitched and she busts out laughing. Man I was no good after that. I wonder if she knows what that reaction meant. She never ceases to let me live that one down whenever I get real bold. I'll keep you posted. Please respond in the meantime, if you have any additional feedback to make.

Thanks for everything.

 

[DonWon]

hey!

I just called her up. I emailed her asking if she was free tonight. She said she might have a date, and she asked me why. I told her that I wanted to see her. She responded, in that she would have to see. I dropped in and gave her a call. I asked her were things going....chit chat. I asked her if she found out about her "almost" date. I over asserted a little bit in how I made my request to see her. I'll explain. Some women I know don't mind (or like) when you just say what you want to do/plan with them. I haven't found this to always be too successful with her. I asked her what time could I come see her. She wasn't averse to it, but simply stated that I should call her back and when I knew how to ask nicely. Nothing nasty, but spoken in her typical gameful manner. I hung up, called back and mock-convoed with her like it was the first time I'd talked to her. She played along. I threw out the idea of my coming to see her today and asked her what she thought about that. She then said that she actually needed to still wait for things to develop and that she'd be reading tonight. I told her that this was fine and that I could come over and read with her. She said that she had those other things planned but that it shouldn't be a problem. I said that you can't always plan everything and to go with the flow sometimes (this is the direct opposite of my spewed approach that i tell people). She then says to take your own advice, to which I laugh and say that I just share my experiences with others so that they know what has worked for me D ). She then says, that this is funny coming from me, somehow who is waiting 5 years to tell someone that I like them a little bit. I don't know if she's exaggerating which she is prone to do, or if she is reflecting that I like her. Either way, it caught me off guard, and I laughed it off, like no big deal and told her that we'd talk later. Tonight is step two.

 

[Grey Fox]

Well if she says no, you at least know. If you feel a little down, its natural just appreciate the fact she was able to give you a straight answer as oppossed to putting you on the run around.

Look if whenever you get bold she tries to drop you down a few pegs you have to stand up to it, its another one of the those challenges. She says you twitch, comeback and say something like "I may twitch, but I can make your whole body tingle." Something incredibly bold like that.

Right now you sound incredibly excited at the smallest thing she does. You need to turn it down a couple of notches, being pleased that you think your making progress is one thing. But raving about her letting you come over to read is a bit much. If you become giddy and start thinking like a desperate man she will see it a mile away. Also you need to cool her down too, step out of her life for a bit and I mean for more than two days. THIS ALSO MEANS STOP CALLING HER!!! THE ONLY REASON YOUR NEXT CALL SHOULD EVER BE FOR, IS TO ASK HER OUT ON A DATE.

Otherwise can the buddy buddy phone calls and emails, your life has to seem busy, and not busy beating around the bush trying to find a way to ask her out. So the next time she does tease you, you might as well pull some stunt that you either ask her out directly, or drop off the radar and make her miss you. But after a week or so of that you better be ready to suprise her.

IF YOU KEEP UP CALLING HER, ACTING LIKE YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING TO HER BUT BACKDOWN WHEN SHE CHALLENGES YOU. YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK LAME.

Right now desire is your enemy, its going to make you want to do things that will end up turning her off, like the constant phone calls and desperate attempts to hang out. But I promise you this, no matter what happens with this girl, when you look back from a few months to maybe a year from know you'll realize you have learned some valuable lessons. Just be cool about this and fight off the desire to ask her out, and the fear born from that desire. If you want her, now is the time to act with purpose or you can forget acting at all. Everything you do from here on out must have a point and put you on an irrevesible path. You've had five years, the end game is now, in fact its probably been that way for a while. Best of luck and I'm cheering for you.

-Grey Fox

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Alright, while Grey Fox's advice is very good, this thread has turned into a conversation that resembles that of two girls talking back and forth about every single detail.

Too much telling, not enough showing. You need to gage her interest and test her. If she doesn't respond to you, you need to cut your loses short. Like it or not, you have been categorized as a "friend" and that will never change. Friends develop "affection" not attraction. So far you have acted very AFC and girlie like, and chicks don't get moist by that kind of behavior.

You need to gage her interest by throwing tests at her:

1. Mention the girl you are seeing. See how she reacts. If she responds "wow, that's great" and if she asks more questions like she would with a girlfriend of hers, that would not be a good sign.

2. Does she tell you about her dates?

3. Are you giving in when she's testing you?

Based on the book you've typed above. You are way into the friend zone, and are like a girlfriend to her. Girls can get any guy interested in her, but a guy that acts like a girlfriend, who she thinks has no interest in her, is a rare commodity that she doesn't want to give up. It will not happen.

That is the dream for most girls. To find a guy who "want's nothing in return." Just like they brag to eachother about the hot guys that get em going, she probably brags about how she has a guy friend who she can totally trust and would never try anything. LoL, yeah right. All guys have an agenda. That is why they ususally end up hanging out with gay guys who act like women. You have about as much chance as a gay guy would.

So what should you do? Are you prepared to deal with the anxiety and frustration of seeing her date other men, and hearing all about it? Can you handle her just being friends, knowing you will never score with her? Be honest with yourself. If you cannot live like that, then you gotta be willing to put the moves and risk the friendship. To me, that is way better than going the rest of your life knowing that nothing will ever happen.
Even if she rejects you, its way better than just acting like a girly guy just because you must be in a friendship you don't really want.

 

[DonWon]

Thanks guys...

...but this one is not going to happen. I know I've been writing a thesis, but here goes for anyone who might benefit from a testimony.

She finally came over to the new place about 2 weeks ago today. She checked it out...I played with her a little bit, got some kino in (touching her teasingly, and talking softly in her ear) - to which she didn't object. Anyway, my guy comes over to help me move my TV. I arranged this so he could get the scoop on her. First thing she does is ask him about this girl I like and if he knows who she is. He laughs it off. She comes in my room to use my pc, while he and I chew the fat.. She keeps coming in the living room trying to find out what's up with the lady I'm liking. Afterwards he and I talk and he's thinking that she has to know it's her, and that's she just trying to play dumb, which I suspect too. Anyway, she and I were supposed to spend the whole day at my crib this last Saturday, which didn't pan out b/c of an emergency. What I don't know. She hasn't arbitrarily cancelled on me, but I'm not naive to the fact she might have wanted to do something else.

Fast forward to today. We haven't talked that much this week. She sends me an email at work and I let her know how sweet she is for what she is doing for me. She said ditto. I sarcastically replied that she was romantic. She responded that she is but she doesn't try to be so with her friends. That closes the book on this mystery. Thank you all for the tips though.Although I'm very sure we'll continue to do things there's no point expending a lot of effort towards "friendship" outings.
Time to use my energy on other chicks.

Thanks for the ideas - they were invaluable!

Thanks again