How to be a Challenge Without Driving Women Away?

[Velasco]

Yeah I often don’t text when girls are being difficult. They don’t re engage. If I re engage however, they usually don’t respond. So I’m not seeing any benefits of that

Then she's either lost interest or wasn't interested in the first place. Hard to say without looking at an example. The screenshot you posted above is just you fvcking up the set through autism

 

[SargeMaximus]

Then she's either lost interest or wasn't interested in the first place. Hard to say without looking at an example. The screenshot you posted above is just you fvcking up the set through autism

How exactly? And I don’t have autism. Stop with the hate

 

[Velasco]

How exactly? And I don’t have autism. Stop with the hate

You sound hostile. Her first text is like "woah k buddy relax. I call everyone including my dog, sweetheart lol" then you double down on your hostility with "I'm not your dog" so she's like ight this guy clearly has issues. Goodbye."

Playful. Like it's gotta flow. Like in response to her

"Hey sweetheart how are you"
I'd be like, "better now that your texting me *blushing emoji*

Eliciting an awww response. Because I recognize that's where she's at right now. I'm flowing with her vibe ("bro but isn't that beta???" Listen to guys who get laid VS internet alpha males who worship Rollo) VS going in /\/\/\/\/\.

And it's not hate lol. You've stated numerous times you have autism, brother.

 

[SargeMaximus]

You sound hostile. Her first text is like "woah k buddy relax. I call everyone including my dog, sweetheart lol" then you double down on your hostility with "I'm not your dog" so she's like ight this guy clearly has issues. Goodbye."

Playful. Like it's gotta flow. Like in response to her

"Hey sweetheart how are you"
I'd be like, "better now that your texting me *blushing emoji*

Eliciting an awww response. Because I recognize that's where she's at right now. I'm flowing with her vibe ("bro but isn't that beta???" Listen to guys who get laid VS internet alpha males who worship Rollo) VS going in /\/\/\/\/\.

And it's not hate lol. You've stated numerous times you have autism, brother.

I don’t have autism. I never stated that I have autism. I said I’m close. I’ve literally had professional testing but I’m not on the spectrum, brother. So fvck off.

And the whole “better now that your texting me” response I’ve tried before and got ghosted because it’s simp language

 

[Velasco]

And the whole “better now that your texting me” response I’ve tried before and got ghosted because it’s simp language

Show the context.

It's not pickup lines. It's flowing. Saying one thing in one context can be exactly what she wants to hear in that moment. While in a completely different context will kill you.

 

[Atom Smasher]

@SargeMaximus , you seem to have a “heavy” aura about you, and that can turn women off.
Think more in terms of playfulness and amusement. Women like the challenge of a little banter, but they shy away from heavy directness.
As much as we want to seriously limit emojis in text, a very sparing wink every once in a blue moon lets her know that you’re teasing.

I’ve told you many times before that you know all the techniques, but you tend to have trouble calibrating to use them to good effect. It’s that “heavy” serious vibe that is turning them off.

You’re there to have fun, to have amusing interactions. This draws women like moths to a flame. Within that context you can still command respect.

 

[logicallefty]

Men absolutely need to be a challenge, expecially early on with a woman. Any woman, not just in a dating context. But work, family, social, etc are just as important. Women are natural manipulators. They will push push push if they think they can get someone to do something for them, or give them something. A lot of times, they do it passively. You have to show them that you are your own person and aren't going to stop drop and roll for them. This is especially important when you first meet them. I respond to these events persistently and carefully. Sometimes, simply ignoring them works. Other times, maybe a simple "oh ok". If they ask you a direct question and it's something you don't want to do, sometimes you can say "I'm good for now". As you are with a woman longer, you can relax a little bit, but never be in a mode where you stop drop and roll for her 100% of the time. If you get into this mode, you will drive yourself crazy and in parallel to that they will loose respect for you. Because they will see you as weak. This is why we call it GAME. Because that's exactly what it is, a psychological one.

 

[PRW63]

I read on here recently that you gotta be a challenge to women. But that’s kind of been my thing since childhood to play devil’s advocate and always question people and such. But ime it just isolates you and makes people and women avoid you so obviously I’m doing it wrong. What’s the correct way?

It doesn mean to "be difficult",...it means firstly to just not be a beta SIMP, but then secondarily it means to be your own man while at the same time being a decent human being. Be the man a woman is willing to follow and feel safe and protect by. She wants to know that when the sh*t hits the fan in life that you are man enough to take care of it.

 

[SargeMaximus]

@SargeMaximus , you seem to have a “heavy” aura about you, and that can turn women off.
Think more in terms of playfulness and amusement. Women like the challenge of a little banter, but they shy away from heavy directness.
As much as we want to seriously limit emojis in text, a very sparing wink every once in a blue moon lets her know that you’re teasing.

I’ve told you many times before that you know all the techniques, but you tend to have trouble calibrating to use them to good effect. It’s that “heavy” serious vibe that is turning them off.

You’re there to have fun, to have amusing interactions. This draws women like moths to a flame. Within that context you can still command respect.

The problem is that playfulness isnt authentic so it won’t work anyways. Women can tell when a guy is trying to be something he is t just to get with her

Men absolutely need to be a challenge, expecially early on with a woman. Any woman, not just in a dating context. But work, family, social, etc are just as important. Women are natural manipulators. They will push push push if they think they can get someone to do something for them, or give them something. A lot of times, they do it passively. You have to show them that you are your own person and aren't going to stop drop and roll for them. This is especially important when you first meet them. I respond to these events persistently and carefully. Sometimes, simply ignoring them works. Other times, maybe a simple "oh ok". If they ask you a direct question and it's something you don't want to do, sometimes you can say "I'm good for now".

Yeah that’s how I naturally am yet now one likes me and I have no friends and no hot women. So it’s not a good thing in my case.

I even posted an example of this a few weeks ago and guys on here took me to the woodshed for being too mean to the girl when I just said “gonna have to pass”.

mom beginning to think you guys just suggest the opposite of what I did when in reality neither has worked ime

 

[PRW63]

Yeah that’s how I naturally am yet now one likes me and I have no friends and no hot women. So it’s not a good thing in my case.

I even posted an example of this a few weeks ago and guys on here took me to the woodshed for being too mean to the girl when I just said “gonna have to pass”.

mom beginning to think you guys just suggest the opposite of what I did when in reality neither has worked ime

You've been saying the same thing, the same complaints here for the last year. Never improves. Story never changes. You are either improperly applying good advice and it blows up in your face,...or focusing on bad advice and ignoring the good advice which quite often is not given as "loudly" as the bad advice. Maybe you are just looking for that one special "magic trick" or one special "gimmic" that will change things,...rather than focusing on the real problem which is your own self-improvement. From the woman's perspective, if you are not "nice" to be around, not "fun" to be around, not pleasant and memorable to be around and stand out from all the other shleps they've experienced,...then you will get rejected every time.

Don't know what to tell ya.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Men absolutely need to be a challenge, expecially early on with a woman. Any woman, not just in a dating context. But work, family, social, etc are just as important. Women are natural manipulators. They will push push push if they think they can get someone to do something for them, or give them something. A lot of times, they do it passively. You have to show them that you are your own person and aren't going to stop drop and roll for them. This is especially important when you first meet them. I respond to these events persistently and carefully. Sometimes, simply ignoring them works. Other times, maybe a simple "oh ok". If they ask you a direct question and it's something you don't want to do, sometimes you can say "I'm good for now".

Yeah that’s how I naturally am yet now one likes me and I have no friends and no hot women. So it’s not a good thing in my case.

I even posted an example of this a few weeks ago and guys on here took me to the woodshed for being too mean to the girl when I just said “gonna have to pass”.

mom beginning to think you guys just suggest the opposite of what I did when in reality beither

You've been saying the same thing, the same complaints here for the last year. Never improves. Story never changes. You are either improperly applying good advice and it blows up in your face,...or focusing on bad advice and ignoring the good advice which quite often is not given as "loudly" as the bad advice. Maybe you are just looking for that one special "magic trick" or one special "gimmic" that will change things,...rather than focusing on the real problem which is your own self-improvement. From the woman's perspective, if you are not "nice" to be around, not "fun" to be around, not pleasant and memorable to be around and stand out from all the other shleps they've experienced,...then you will get rejected every time.

Don't know what to tell ya.

well I’m fvcked then because I won’t be the woman’s dancing monkey. And how are you supposed to be a challenge to her and be fun at the same time? I tried that with the girl in the pic I used and she freaked out even though I was just teasing.

my conclusion is it’s actually bad advice since it doesn’t work

 

[logicallefty]

well I’m fvcked then because I won’t be the woman’s dancing monkey. And how are you supposed to be a challenge to her and be fun at the same time? I tried that with the girl in the pic I used and she freaked out even though I was just teasing.

my conclusion is it’s actually bad advice since it doesn’t work

You will get there. I was in your shoes 20 years ago. Used to bend over and stop drop and roll for everyone. Everyone in my life came first and I came last. I was the biggest pushover and YES MAN. I'd be helping women move and fixing sh|t for them after one date. Doing their jobs for them at work. Doing favors for my family who, when I asked them for a favor, they scattered like roaches. The hard part is being a challenge without being an all out d|ckhead. It takes a lot of practice and mental discipline if you have been conditioned to not be a challenge and be Mr. Nice guy. For a lot of guys it takes getting majorly burnt in life ONE, TWO, or if you are Logicallefty, FOUR or FIVE times before you see the light. Just jeep coming to our forum and set your mind into wanting to change. Think about the most dominant male you know, and in a given situation, what would he do?

 

[Kotaix]

I never talk about red pill stuff with women. Did you see the pic I posted?

I looked. That's really bad.

You're not being challenging, you're actively looking to be offended and instigating conflict. You sound just like a feminist.

 

[SargeMaximus]

You will get there. I was in your shoes 20 years ago. Used to bend over and stop drop and roll for everyone. Everyone in my life came first and I came last. I was the biggest pushover and YES MAN. I'd be helping women move and fixing sh|t for them after one date. Doing their jobs for them at work. Doing favors for my family who, when I asked them for a favor, they scattered like roaches. The hard part is being a challenge without being an all out d|ckhead. It takes a lot of practice and mental discipline if you have been conditioned to not be a challenge and be Mr. Nice guy. For a lot of guys it takes getting majorly burnt in life ONE, TWO, or if you are Logicallefty, FOUR or FIVE times before you see the light. Just jeep coming to our forum and set your mind into wanting to change. Think about the most dominant male you know, and in a given situation, what would he do?

Dude you’re not even reading what I say. I’m not a yes man in the slightest wtf.

I looked. That's really bad.

You're not being challenging, you're actively looking to be offended and instigating conflict. You sound just like a feminist.

Lol oh? Teasing a girl is being a feminist now? That’s a new one

 

[Mike32ct]

People say not to use emoji. I'm of the belief that any time you are teasing through text, without her already knowing that is the frame that's set, an emoji should be used. In your text, it's obvious your reply to her sweetheart comment was just playful banter. She took it as serious because you didn't put a tongue-sticking-out emoji in. I think the response was fine, you just need to be very obvious that it's playful teasing.

Emojis are fine and useful for flirting by text

 

[SargeMaximus]

People say not to use emoji. I'm of the belief that any time you are teasing through text, without her already knowing that is the frame that's set, an emoji should be used. In your text, it's obvious your reply to her sweetheart comment was just playful banter. She took it as serious because you didn't put a tongue-sticking-out emoji in. I think the response was fine, you just need to be very obvious that it's playful teasing.

Good point. I stopped using them because I felt I was being too “feels” when I used them to show playfulness. There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground. Either way I seem to get a bad result

 

[SargeMaximus]

When she said the part about calling everyone sweetheart, even her dog. You could have said "Are you saying you want to put a collar and leash on me?" That could have shifted her defensive demeanor to a relaxed one.

Yeah but that would also hint I like to be dominated by a femd0m

 

[Kotaix]

Lol oh? Teasing a girl is being a feminist now? That’s a new one

Do you take everything literally?

You saying "I'm not your dog" doesn't sound like teasing. At all. It just sounds like you getting butthurt over what she said. I wouldn't engage with you after that if I were her either.

Literally barking would have been a better response than the one you gave. At least it would have been moderately funny.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Do you take everything literally?

You saying "I'm not your dog" doesn't sound like teasing. At all. It just sounds like you getting butthurt over what she said. I wouldn't engage with you after that if I were her either.

Literally barking would have been a better response than the one you gave. At least it would have been moderately funny.

Well then feel free to cease “engaging” with me. I was obviously talking about the first teasing rebuttal I did and she responded in a way that showed she didn’t realize I was teasing her. At that point I had to put my foot down. At least I’m not a simp

 

[Velasco]

I was obviously talking about the first teasing rebuttal I did and she responded in a way that showed she didn’t realize I was teasing her

Even if you included an emoji at the end it's not even funny. And sounds like an incomplete sentence.

Damn girl we haven't even gone out yet and your already calling me sweetheart? Shiiiit, I knew I was charming but not that charming *smirking emoji*