How Surgeons Really See Women

[Colossus]

Following is a blog entry by a medical student at SUNY Upstate Medical College. During her OB/GYN rotation, she encountered 'startling attitudes' from the male attendings and residents.

And if she were the size of an old oak or sported a beard, or had a lopsided grin or was 40 with three children, one still in diapers, would it be any less tragic? Is it really more tragic because she is beautiful?"

I'd been holding back for six weeks at each comment I'd heard from the male ob/gyn residents who wanted to take care of women between 20 and 40. To some of these men, adolescent women were too difficult and women over 40 were not attractive anymore, and they made no bones about making comments to the sea of women around them about it. With the exam behind me, although just barely, I was there in the OR making up for two mornings that I spent in the pediatric refugee clinic. This rotation was serious about making us get enough exposure to the field -- and I was certainly getting enough... I was ready to explode.

The nurse was looking at me wide eyed. I was going on a little too much I suppose. In my left hand I was holding two kelly clamps so the resident could close the peritoneum and with my right I was holding the suction, but my eyes and my mouth were still moving. I was going on a little too much I suppose so the surgeon reached across the table and put his hands over mine, as if my hands were my mouth. With his hands over mine he quieted me. "If she didn't take such good care of herself, if she were not so young," he repeated, and then added "Even I'm susceptible to her bikini line."

Beauty stirs something in all of us, I know. I have a body too, and skin and eyes and ears that have seen and heard and felt beauty. I didn't want to hear the surgeon go on like this, not now, not ever. To hear that man in surgeon's garb say, "if she were fat" -- just like that -- "if she were a big girl, and didn't take such care of herself." That stung. What if my child were fat, would he care less for her, would he dissect out her diseased lymph nodes any less carefully? Would his attention wander? Would he let the resident do more of the surgery? Would the resident, herself deflated by such comments, flag in her efforts?

Love your tree, baby, love your tree. I beamed silently at the women in there with me under the bright OR lights. The toxic attitudes towards women, the glorification of the thin ideal, it was everywhere around us, in the walls, underfoot, in surgeon's garb. If only the patients were awake in the OR, if they could hear, we'd never know what these guys really think.

Basically something tragic happened during surgery, to a young, attractive female. The surgeons were remarking at how if she were less attractive or older, the effect would be somewhat different. This young medical student apparently was appalled. It's also worth noting her looks appear to be average.

Interesting example, though, how beauty garners more delicate and conscientious treatment even in a field that should be impartial to physical appearance. We often talk here about how the best-looking women receive the most attention and preferential treatment from men, and it is largely true.

Think about different examples:

-If a gorgeous HB9 were to ask you for $3.00 for a train ticket, how much more apt would you be to give it to her than if she were a haggard 45 year-old smoker?

-A fat woman drops an item from her grocery sack, you may think nothing of it. An HB 10 drops something and you practically trip over yourself to pick it up for her.

-How often do you hold a door for an overweight 4 or 5? What about a young, slim 8 or 9?

Something about beauty grabs us and we often unconsciously give the object of beauty preferential kindness. Ever notice how hot chicks are always getting free stuff? Free passes? Special invites? It's infuriating sometimes but we all probably participate in it to some degree.

I think men mainly do this to increase the likelihood a beautiful woman will be receptive to intimacy, or sex. But I also think there is something very primal that prompts us to respond that way, even when we have little to no chance of any intimacy, such as doing a small act of kindness for a passing stranger.

Women like the author of the above blog entry know it, and they either accept it and adapt to life differently, or they revile against it and try to change it.

 

[piranha45]

If I was an aspiring MD, ob/gyn would be my last choice for a specialty... most of the patients would be vile, and the chances of getting unjustifiably in trouble would be crazy high.

I think the message you are trying to convey is obvious to our knowledge.

 

[8YearLurker]

Dude trust me, there are like 2 hot girls in every med school class... those surgeons are lucky to even see a pretty face.

Also, surgeons are the biggest assho1es in the field. Highest divorce rate, high rate of infidelity.

Now PA students.. there's where the hotties are!

 

[Colossus]

Now PA students.. there's where the hotties are!

For realz. PA student classes are like 2/3 female.

A doctor once told me that beautiful women don't go to medical school...unless they're batty so watch out!!

Surgeons have a bad rep but Ive met plenty who are very cool. It seems to vary by specialty.

 

[8YearLurker]

For realz. PA student classes are like 2/3 female.

A doctor once told me that beautiful women don't go to medical school...unless they're batty so watch out!!

Surgeons have a bad rep but Ive met plenty who are very cool. It seems to vary by specialty.

We had a saying in Med School. "Ugly girls become doctors, hot girls marry doctors."

 

[MatureDJ]

If I was an aspiring MD, ob/gyn would be my last choice for a specialty... most of the patients would be vile, and the chances of getting unjustifiably in trouble would be crazy high.

I think the message you are trying to convey is obvious to our knowledge.

I have a friend that is an ob-gyn, and he said that when he was doing his residency, treating the public hospital folks, maybe one in a thousand were attractive. By far, most of the patients were obese African and Hispanic women.

 

[Mr. Me]

"The toxic attitudes towards women"

This is where the author makes her mistake in logic. The surgeons are expressing an attitude about beauty, not about women. And its certainly not toxic because being attracted to beauty doesn't kill anyone. That's simply theatrical dramatic language she's using. Even in her own recounting she speaks about how she herself has "felt beauty", implying that a person or persons she deemed attractive had an effect on her. We're all disgusted at obesity and ugliness and we are all attracted to physical beauty for hardwired reason, just as we are disgusted at rotting food but our saliva runs when we look at appealing food.

Essays like hers accomplish nothing, except maybe to keep the "war of the sexes" alive. Oh, they believe they're helping to uncover and stamp out hatred toward women, but again, this article is really about her hypothesizing whether a doctor may or may not have striven to give more care depending on a woman's physical appearance, rather then a true, factual story about neglecting a patient to death because she was overweight. Fer cryin' out loud. Maybe someone ought to write something on how women write made-up toxic articles about men. Hey, I just did!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Hot girls get preferential treatment; that's like saying the sky is blue. The problem with essays like this is that the authors are generally bemoaning how the game is played rather than how to play better. They'd rather men lower the basket than learn to slam dunk. The drip and drone for generations about how ideal an androgynous, gender-neutral, egalitarian equal society would be, but simple biology has thwarted it for just as long.

For every poor-man's feminist and feminized male sympathizing with this, there's a woman wishing she was magically attractive enough to hold a rich surgeon's sexual attention without having to put out the physical effort needed to transform herself in order to do so. Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If only the patients were awake in the OR, if they could hear, we'd never know what these guys really think.


They often say "oh fvck!" and curse in ways that would be very disconcerting if the patient could hear. "oh sh!t did I just fvck that up!!! mother fvcker!!!!!" is not something we want to hear out of the guy operating on us, but in almost every surgery there is some inappropriate conversation going on. And yes, they do make fun of patients while they are under. That is just the sick humor of people who saw into other people every day.

Women might romanticize being married to a rich doctor or lawyer, but I know a lot of both. They are typically dorky a55holes who are pissy about having to work all the time and almost always stink with women. The only successful relationships they tend to have are ones that are based on never having to see each other due to working too much.

 

[mrRuckus]

the glorification of the thin ideal

I JUST finished a conversation with a woman I work on a project with. She grew up in Poland and didn't move here until college. She was telling me that anyone fat in Poland was a spectacle because they were so rare. She said everyone was thin, no one ate out, and there was no fast food. Everyone ate healthy home-cooked meals. Then American fast food places showed up and there are now fat people everywhere.

I'm sick of us being blamed for some "crazy ideal" of women being thin. You are supposed to have a normal body fat percentage. If you don't, you are majorly screwing up. It is not much to ask for you to not be a blob.

On a side note, she was also complaining that Poland is now trying to emulate the (failing) american education system for no good reason.

Think about different examples:

-If a gorgeous HB9 were to ask you for $3.00 for a train ticket, how much more apt would you be to give it to her than if she were a haggard 45 year-old smoker?

-A fat woman drops an item from her grocery sack, you may think nothing of it. An HB 10 drops something and you practically trip over yourself to pick it up for her.

-How often do you hold a door for an overweight 4 or 5? What about a young, slim 8 or 9?

You know, these for me are more of a case of not liking the fat chick than it is doing anything special for the beautiful one. I really do see fat chicks as lesser people, which i see nothing wrong with. Someone with such a great personality and other greats traits would be doing something about their mess of a body. I'm judged by my game and my social status and all that and am expected to improve all that stuff or perish, so i don't see what's wrong with looking down on someone else's lack of taking care of their body skill. It's one thing to hate someone with a big nose, but lots of other stuff is perfectly under their control.

Fat chicks just tend to irritate the hell out of me. They're so inconvenient and get in the way of talking to their hot friends. My buddy was just c0ckblocked this past weekend due to one who did it just because she felt like it when the pretty one was getting more attention.

I tend to just ignore women that i'm not immediately going for. But i guess i'm now one of the guys who realize that most women are nothing special regardless of looks.

 

[piranha45]

I'm sick of us being blamed for some "crazy ideal" of women being thin. You are supposed to have a normal body fat percentage. If you don't, you are majorly screwing up. It is not much to ask for you to not be a blob.

You know, these for me are more of a case of not liking the fat chick than it is doing anything special for the beautiful one. I really do see fat chicks as lesser people, which i see nothing wrong with. Someone with such a great personality and other greats traits would be doing something about their mess of a body.

Damn straight.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was in Panama with my brand about a year ago and I was the only American besides our C.O.O. in the group. Everyone else was Dutch. We were there working out some details of importing a rum and the women (as in most alcohol related business) were amazingly hot. So I'm there waiting for the sales guys to finish their talks and one of the Panamanian hostesses starts up a conversation with me.

She says, "You don't speak with a Dutch accent?", thinking I was Dutch by association. I said "No, I'm American" to which she replies "oh,..you don't look American." I laugh a bit and ask "well, what does an American look like?" So she then explains "they're all loud, fat and out of shape."

 

[Colossus]

I'm sick of us being blamed for some "crazy ideal" of women being thin. You are supposed to have a normal body fat percentage. If you don't, you are majorly screwing up. It is not much to ask for you to not be a blob.

I do agree with this. People should be accountable for their own body composition. Yes, genetics play a role, but not as big of a role as laziness and blaming other people.

You know, these for me are more of a case of not liking the fat chick than it is doing anything special for the beautiful one. I really do see fat chicks as lesser people, which i see nothing wrong with. Someone with such a great personality and other greats traits would be doing something about their mess of a body. I'm judged by my game and my social status and all that and am expected to improve all that stuff or perish, so i don't see what's wrong with looking down on someone else's lack of taking care of their body skill. It's one thing to hate someone with a big nose, but lots of other stuff is perfectly under their control.

Ive been trying to be less judgmental of people lately. Fat chicks are often annoying, but really, they're still people. Just my personal view, but if I can hold a door for an HB9 then I can hold a door for a 250 lb heifer. I'm no better than either one of them. Maybe in better shape, but I worked for it. I don't feel sorry for them.

What annoys me is when they want special accomodations for their fatness, or they want to blame the system. Like the average-looking medical intern blaming men for the 'crazy ideal' of an attractive woman. Sorry Sally, we get to decide what's attractive.

 

[ketostix]

Another example of female hypocrisy and women thinking they all should be treated special just because they are female no matter how crappy they are.

Who is more discriminatory than females? If you get service from a female from a cashier, hairstyles to a doctor, if she doesn't like you personally it affects how she services or treats you. When you have 80% of women only willing to fvck about 20% of men, and women are talking about equality for all? Give me a break.

The fact is beautiful women shouldn't but get preferential treatment to average and unattractive women, but even unattractive women are treated preferentially to most men. Women are hypocritical and gender-centric.