How Red Pill Aware Is Your Wife? How Important Is It?

[va2000]

Maybe there's a stupidly simple answer to this, but I have been looking for a few days and I can't find anything so think I'll just ask it. (I've been semi-aware for years but have re-discovered a lot of books recently and The Rational Male especially is hitting home for me in my current stage of life)

Anyway, I notice Rollo Tomassi often mentioning his marriage and he seems to imply that is wife is somewhat "in the loop" at least as far as the men should be men ideal, which sounds advisable from a certain perspective, but I'm deeply curious how much he would share with her... is it beneficial to have a woman who is open minded and at least aware of the concepts of the manosphere, or is it considered better that they remain in the dark if they are?

It seems there could be considered a wide spectrum of goals in the manosphere, from purely gaming unknowing women for the purpose of maximum sexual activity, to simply trying to bring a 20 year marriage back to life with a better understanding of gender dynamics.

In any case, as a four years monogamous man considering marriage for mainly logistical* reasons I am curious primarily about how to frame a proposal, vows, even the concept of marriage or open marriage as this will set the tone for a substantial part of our lives I presume.

*In my profession I will spend half of my life overseas and only a wife gets co-habitation benefits during those times, not to mention all the rest like food, housing, travel, medical, etc.

 

[AJ84]

Maybe there's a stupidly simple answer to this, but I have been looking for a few days and I can't find anything so think I'll just ask it. (I've been semi-aware for years but have re-discovered a lot of books recently and The Rational Male especially is hitting home for me in my current stage of life)

Anyway, I notice Rollo Tomassi often mentioning his marriage and he seems to imply that is wife is somewhat "in the loop" at least as far as the men should be men ideal, which sounds advisable from a certain perspective, but I'm deeply curious how much he would share with her... is it beneficial to have a woman who is open minded and at least aware of the concepts of the manosphere, or is it considered better that they remain in the dark if they are?

It seems there could be considered a wide spectrum of goals in the manosphere, from purely gaming unknowing women for the purpose of maximum sexual activity, to simply trying to bring a 20 year marriage back to life with a better understanding of gender dynamics.

In any case, as a four years monogamous man considering marriage for mainly logistical* reasons I am curious primarily about how to frame a proposal, vows, even the concept of marriage or open marriage as this will set the tone for a substantial part of our lives I presume.

*In my profession I will spend half of my life overseas and only a wife gets co-habitation benefits during those times, not to mention all the rest like food, housing, travel, medical, etc.

If you want a successful LTR relationship or marriage, it's better to have her know and accept the red pill concept, ideally, a woman who already shares some of those views would be best.

Keeping her in the dark is going to be tricky and exhausting for you. It's one thing to do that to women you are just casually dating, but anytime a real investment is being considered, you want to make things as easy and peaceful as possible and being upfront from the get go is better than constantly having to deal with sh*t tests which is what will happen if you apply red pill tactics and she has no idea wtf you're doing or why. You will be living with her half of your life after all.

As you are also considering an open relationship, consider the risks of STDs and potential pregnancies from her or you getting someone pregnant. She should agree to use birth control and you both should use protection and have some boundaries about where sex takes place. For example when you are away she should hook up with guys outside of the home and not bring them back to your bedroom.

 

[va2000]

Awesome... I know it's just one opinion, but my gut says that openness is just fine for LTR. My girl is definitely in the "ready for real man" camp and already fairly submissive (in a lot of ways I lucked out without knowing any of this because I'm naturally confident, make money, and you might say I happened to connect down socially by circumstance) but I know how I get when I'm excited about learning a new concept... I end up spilling a ton of thought vomit to anyone I care enough about to share my thoughts and it is not always helpful.

I mainly wanted to see if there's anything I'm missing since a lot of what we talk about is subtle cues, non-verbal communication, and so on, and laying everything on the table at once removes all mystique, but I think there's a lot of concepts I can reveal to her which are helpful for both of us appreciating the dynamic.

 

[oOh Nasty]

I wouldn't talk about the red pill as if it was some type of movement. I wouldn't even mention that there's a word for it (Red Pill). Any woman I'm in an LTR with is required to having an affinity towards being deferential to me anyways, so in the case that I might have to bring it up for emergency reasons, she'd just nonchalantly accept it. She'd already have to be the type that rejects feminism and thinks that it's silly.

I think that showing her that there's an entity to the male movement concept and that you're a strong advocate of it usually will just work against you. Just show through your actions and by using indirect hints that the Alpha male (yourself) is not to be f*cked with. Of course, the idea is for her to be completely supportive of you already anyways.

As far as OP's original inquiry about a logistic marriage...

Just make sure that she's fairly young, has an intact family with a dominant father figure, a mother who's motherly (cooks, cleans, and is supportive and mild), doesn't have any major insecurities, and gives off the vibe that it's all about you.

 

[va2000]

I don't intend to "talk about flight club" i.e. the community effort and defining terminology, but she is going to notice new ways of thinking coming from me that are obviously new.

One thing I'm focused on is what seeds I should plant about marriage early on (in this case a few years at least before I need to make that decision). We have been vocally anti-marriage and anti-babies for years, and she never expected to do it with anyone else before. But with the notion that it might happen (for any reason), I sense her Disney addiction gradually growing and I think it's best to create the narrative on marriage before the girlfriends tell her the whole thing via pinterest BS.

I certainly don't see wisdom in being "silent Alpha" for several years and then whipping out a ring and saying "you can have this but it will be an open marriage and by the way here's the 100 page pre-nupt"...

 

[Desdinova]

In any case, as a four years monogamous man considering marriage for mainly logistical* reasons I am curious primarily about how to frame a proposal, vows, even the concept of marriage or open marriage as this will set the tone for a substantial part of our lives I presume.

The marriage shouldn't be the thing setting the tone, the existing relationship should. If your relationship isn't reflecting what your married life should be, then perhaps you should think twice about marrying the woman.

My brother defines the marriage certificate as "a license to fvck". That's pretty much all it is. The novelty of the ring on her finger will wear off after about six months. The marriage certificate is simply a guarantee that your divorce will be expensive. A certificate, a ring, and a day to broadcast these things to your friends won't have any significant impact when it comes to improving your relationship.

Your goal should be rewarding your woman for 25 years of faithful dedication. If you want to spend money on that, I won't hold you back. A woman who takes care of you and your home for a quarter of a century deserves a ring worth thousands of dollars. A woman who is attractive and likes putting your d1ck inside of her is worthy of a home-cooked meal.

As for having a "red pill woman", that should come naturally when selecting your woman. If she's happy to constantly and consistently cook and clean for you, she will naturally fit into that role. She must not oppose the idea of being pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen. She must embrace that idea. If she doesn't, then her true personality hasn't reared it's ugly head.

I can only hope that this woman you're planning to marry hasn't had any significant mileage when it comes to the men she's fvcked before you, and that she was 23 years old or younger when you started dating. If neither of these conditions are met, you're at a high risk of divorce.

 

[va2000]

We met at 30 and she's no more promiscuous that me... low end of the spectrum in terms of numbers.

 

[ReddJive]

Having your LTR or SO know Red Pill is life on hard mode.

They will point out **** tests and in their own way think you are failing them

"loops failed that **** test"
"you aren't getting it this is a comfort test"
"can't get past the LMR can you"

While it has been said that women understand RP at an instinctual level....that's about as far as it gets. They logically don't get it. Like many men they see it as tactics of manipulation, move, counter move, when really it's just navigating behavior. It just is. Look at it this way. RP, Game, it gives you a tool box of things to use. The ones taht aren't good or just beginning stick to the 3-4 things that worked in the past and put the on repeat then wonder why they didn't work in this one or multiple cases. A true self actualized man will pick the right tool and use it. Then flow from the next to the next without thought nor pause.

Having her know what's in your tool box allows her to second guess you. To have one more **** test she can throw at you.

After having said all that there are women that are aware or RP and want that kind of man. In end it's all the same. Behavior is behavior. Nothing new there.

 

[Young OG]

We met at 30 and she's no more promiscuous that me... low end of the spectrum in terms of numbers.

If she's 30, no kids, and never married then you better run. Any woman like that has to have some serious problems. You will do what you want in the end, but I wouldn't marry this woman. I wouldn't advise marrying any woman until the divorce laws are changed. Your setting yourself up for a huge financial risk.

 

[backbreaker]

my wife knows what the red pill is, thinks it's all a bunch of bullocks but literally everything works on her lol

 

[BeExcellent]

I'd say I'm about as red pill knowledgeable a woman as they come. What @samspade said though remains true. I'm just one chick and I'm not dating women, although I observe (and have historically observed) plenty of sets over the years in the scene. I think the thing that red pill awareness has done for me is help me appreciate to a much greater degree what men go through, and when I first found TRP I recognized it in the context of what I respond to, the way men in my family conduct themselves, in other words it has a certain familiarity to it.

I find that I appreciate a man who operates from a red pill sort of frame and I can observe TRP attitudes on sight in a man. It tells me the man understands women and communicates familiarity/with what IS rather than coming from some fairy tale fantasy place.

As an aside I see so many men who actually lead with "stuff/resources" when they are interacting with a woman. Men who highlight their career, their influence, their status, their money, their country club membership/lake house/boat/fancy car/front row tickets, etc., etc., etc. rather than creating desire personally...and that's because they have NO IDEA how to behave in a sexually charged way to create desire. Such guys are NOT sexy. I can see who those guys are on a first date. Many are physically attractive. But it comes off more like "look, I have all this stuff...pick ME, pick ME" which has a desperate vibe. Honestly I wish I could be forthcoming with men when I see this. But that would hurt feelings and hurt egos and it's just not worth mentioning. Men like that are unlikely to hear TRP from their male buddies. I can't imagine how they would receive that kind of information from a chick in any sort of way that could be seen as positive.

So I appreciate a man who knows how to create desire, who knows how to interact comfortably with women, a man who is enough within himself without having to parade all his resources like he's selling his wares. Those are red pill men and they are unapologetic and refreshing frankly.

This past weekend I went to a concert with 2 men who are friends of mine. One dates a girlfriend of mine. He is a total natural with women and whether he labels it as such he is red pill all the way. His buddy (who had wanted to date me - I declined) is a physically attractive millionaire who is successful and influential. He is also terrifically annoying. Talks incessantly, is overly didactic about everything (even mundane things), and goes on and on about all the perks and "stuff" he has to offer. His buddy who dates my friend made several comments to him about how best to handle women (and it was accurate feedback to be honest) and the rich guy was such an arrogant know-it-all saying "I don't have any issues getting laid", I understand women just fine...honestly one of the most ANTI SEDUCTIVE men I've ever been around and the guy has no idea because he's sure he's got all the answers.

And that wealthy man will find a woman who will date him and marry him for all his riches...and then he will wonder why his sex life stinks and why his wife isn't into him. He will end up in a "transactional" type of relationship without even realizing it. He's recently out of a marriage where his wife cheated and left, and he can't understand because they were "best friends" and etc. Best friends is nice...but if you aren't lovers above all else and you don't/can't create desire it's a matter of time before things fall apart. The guys here on SS who think that money is the answer are in for a very rude awakening if they think money is going to solve their problems. It will NOT. Creating desire has nothing to do with money or resources and probably deserves its own thread.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I find it ironic that the pill metaphor for being a man comes from a movie written by two transsexuals.

 

[exhausted]

This is good stuff

My ex's mother was perfection, she was fulfilled by cooking and baking fir the family, hell she made a plate for her husband every single day. My exs dad was loud and rude and ran the show.

My ex however was a spoiled brat cvnt with a nasty teenage mouth bipolar and npd.

Her parents rsised 3 boys and then she came late in life in their 40s and they spoiled the **** out of her and she ended up a horrid princess entitled cvnt *****.

So sadly it doesnt always work out. If u spoil them not.

 

[zekko]

His buddy (who had wanted to date me - I declined) is a physically attractive millionaire who is successful and influential. He is also terrifically annoying. Talks incessantly, is overly didactic about everything (even mundane things), and goes on and on about all the perks and "stuff" he has to offer. His buddy who dates my friend made several comments to him about how best to handle women (and it was accurate feedback to be honest) and the rich guy was such an arrogant know-it-all saying "I don't have any issues getting laid", I understand women just fine...honestly one of the most ANTI SEDUCTIVE men I've ever been around and the guy has no idea because he's sure he's got all the answers.

This sounds like a good example of a guy who is very confident but that confidence is not making him attractive - despite the fact that so many people claim that confidence is the most sexy trait a man can have.

 

[va2000]

And there you go. Women don't swallow the red pill. They're the ones on which the practices are used. People used to call it seduction! Don't overthink it, OP. Women want to be fooled. Even those trained in the scientific method still want to be seduced.

...

That doesn't mean your partner can't be in agreement with you on sexual dynamics and sexual politics. There is certainly a range of perspective within the female population and that's why we don't like to date feminists. It's also why we preach screening and walking away from the wrong ones.

Excellent perspectives... and I like BeExcellent's observations as well. A lot of good clarity in this thread.

Personally, I am lucky that out of the boys she has been with in her past, none has been close to my SMV and none has gotten deep conversion out of her like I have. Being mostly blue pill for the first 4 years was like running through a minefield and happening to run down a part that happened to be mostly cleared by a minesweeper. I would say I'm barely over 1/2 alpha by nature. It's crazy because her SMV has shot up a lot since I began to transform her (sort of a dollification thing going on) but ironically her self-perception is lagging enough for me to catch up with my own redpill awareness. She is 35 and on the whole I know she can't surpass me in SMV, but certainly want to completely establish my frame before she gets the idea that she might.

 

[BeExcellent]

This sounds like a good example of a guy who is very confident but that confidence is not making him attractive - despite the fact that so many people claim that confidence is the most sexy trait a man can have.

I would have to agree. The guy is accomplished & very confident. He just has no idea what he doesn't know...which is hard to believe in a way as he was a D1 college athlete, married a very pretty woman, was known as a "face" guy (pretty boy) and has all the "stuff" in the way of resources women are supposed to fawn over. His parents are still married, very accomplished themselves & devoted to each other in their 80s.

But his game is supplication & pedestalization all the way. I have half a mind to sit him down & be brutally honest with him about women. He thinks I'm a "10" and so maybe he'd listen. I have no idea. He's a cool guy but not for me at all. I've not said anything because I have to consider that it's just that *I* don't find him appealing...and there's nothing (+) that comes out of mentioning it. But my girlfriend who dates his friend feels the same way about him that I do. Nice guy all the way. Nothing sexy about it.

He knows I'm seeing someone who I like so I fully expect he thinks that is the reason I decline him...and it IS...but I wouldn't get involved with him even if I wasn't seeing someone I like.