how not to be intimidated - pep talk me

[Delta]

howdy fellows,

any of you guys check out the personals like match.com?

all the hot ones seem to have lived tremendous, expansive lives, many having traveled to europe and stuff like that.

now i don't know about you but as a child of immigrants, i was dirt poor all of my childhood, went nowhere, didn't have a car until second year of college and even then, i bought an 81 camaro (color: rust) for $500 and developed an aversion to driving because of constant and unpredictable breakdowns.

all in all, i am not the "adventurous" (oh they love that word) world wise guy who loves travel (oh they love that too... i keep seeing "travel = money") that most women seem to be looking for.

i read the profile of an attractive chick and the only thing i can really think is - i can't possibly be or provide that for them!

so how do i not be intimidated? are these chicks simply out of my reach (definitely a possibility).

but then i think, how many chicks actually end up with a guy that enables them to have tea in paris, jump out of airplanes every other weekend and hit the slopes on the weekends you're not jumping out of planes?

----------------------------------------

basically, i'm running up against the guy version of "unrealistic expectations".... it's unfair but WE GUYS DO IT ALL THE TIME, expecting all chicks to be super models and all the rest simply not measuring up... we do it, i do it. so i'm not complaining....

so should i just resign myself to either an ugly chick or cashing in my citizenship?

delta

 

[afc_2_dj]

I know what you mean, I frequent a local site and its exactly the same.
I personally have to be pickey, for 95% of the girls looks/photo are a "non-negotiable" or "deceidly important" factor, eliminating the less attractive of us, and the rest all expect to be taken traveling every weekend!!

I tend to end up writing those without photos, they seem sometimes less pickey [but it is only fair as I can't post a pic].

IMHO, I was quite dissapointed by the whole online thing, not quite sure what I expected but I found the population to be pretty much the same or worse than those in real life!!

 

[Delta]

it's better than real life in that everyone is there to meet and all the cards are on the table.

but it's much much worse because everyone becomes ultra picky and standards go through the roof... while in real life, it's never stated and things can get going simply as a result of getting to know someone.

yah. it's rough.

delta

 

[afc_2_dj]

is there to meet and all the cards are on the table.

That is a major benefit I agree, it at least lets you eliminate ones who have some characteristic you only find out after spending time/money going out a few times. Whereas in a club you actually have zero idea what this person is about, etc.

I feel one of the problems with the internet is women get to be hit on by hunders of men at once, whereas IRL they may be hit on by many men, it happens over a period of time, so you stand a better chance IRL as you always get a one-on-one chance to impress, whereas online they simply filter replies by the pics/etc then reply to those. i.e. they have a much wider choice giving little chance to those who may be good once you get to know them but don't catch the eye so to speak.

IMHO people inflate their worth in their profiles, I prefer not to, because I don't like creating false initial impressions, but one gets to point where you sort of feel you must also start exagerating simply to compete, it sort of has its own inertia, everybody has to start doing it simply to prevent themselves from being overlooked, from the girls perspective the guy might be inflating himself, but might not, so she looses nothing starting from the top and working her way down, making it very hard for the less shiny to get an interview so to speak.

Lifes tough man, everything these days is competition! Work, money, girls... it never ends!

 

[Delta]

hmph... yeah, everything's competition... but hasn't it always been that way?

one thing that i have to keep realizing though:

ALMOST EVERYONE LEADS A DULL, PROSAIC, MISERABLE LIFE! people who seem really together likely have better FRONT than most but most people are insecure, weak and miserable.

i think the idea that AFCs miss is that there is value in LYING! afcs will resolutely hold onto reality and "keep it real" and feel uncomfortable, awkward etc because that's how they feel.

i just watched "THE PRESTIGE" tonight and one thing that it said is that THEY LOVE YOU FOR THE TRICK. it takes them out of their miserable existence and lets them believe in magic. you are OUT AND OUT LYING TO THEM... but you are giving them what they want - THEIR FANTASY.

i think the thing that i STILL have a problem with is how all the djs are so full of sh#$@ most of the time... and it is SOOOO plain to me and off putting -

but the women love it. they see it too. but they play along. because they need it.

i think i need to realize the value of TAKING THE TROUBLE TO LIE/FAKE/FRONT.

and the realization that 'WE ALL SUCK' is the thing we need to remember to keep from being intimidated.

delta

 

[PigAdlemPimp]

hmph... yeah, everything's competition... but hasn't it always been that way?

one thing that i have to keep realizing though:

ALMOST EVERYONE LEADS A DULL, PROSAIC, MISERABLE LIFE! people who seem really together likely have better FRONT than most but most people are insecure, weak and miserable.

i think the idea that AFCs miss is that there is value in LYING! afcs will resolutely hold onto reality and "keep it real" and feel uncomfortable, awkward etc because that's how they feel.

i just watched "THE PRESTIGE" tonight and one thing that it said is that THEY LOVE YOU FOR THE TRICK. it takes them out of their miserable existence and lets them believe in magic. you are OUT AND OUT LYING TO THEM... but you are giving them what they want - THEIR FANTASY.

i think the thing that i STILL have a problem with is how all the djs are so full of sh#$@ most of the time... and it is SOOOO plain to me and off putting -

but the women love it. they see it too. but they play along. because they need it.

i think i need to realize the value of TAKING THE TROUBLE TO LIE/FAKE/FRONT.

and the realization that 'WE ALL SUCK' is the thing we need to remember to keep from being intimidated.

delta

You have hit the fvcking nail on the head, 90% of guys are fvcking miserable, they complain winge whine and are completely depressed, they never get off their arzes to change it, they expect to meet some HB that will do it for them, however these HBs desire a guy who is already living an exciting and successful life, so these AFCs, will rarely have a HB with them, HBs like to be with guys who are positive confident and have the empowerment to enjoy their lives, with or without a HB in it. :yes:

 

[Delta]

wow....

umm, i'll preface this by saying that i'll take the props.

but... errr... if you slow down a bit and read what i wrote again, considering your opinion on the matter, i'm pretty certain then that you will disagree completely with my sentiment as it is actually written!

delta

 

[Serialized3]

Allright delta, you have to realize a few things about your situation:

First of all, the root of this problem is low self esteem. You don't seem to feel worthy of these women. Unless you change your mindset, you never will be able to be comfortable around these women.

You said you were the poor son of immigrants, and I don't know how successful you are in your life, but you've lasted 33 years through hard times, ****ty cars, and you're stronger for it. Way to go man, a lot of people are born a lot more fortunate than you, which leads me to my second point...

A lot of these "hot women" who've travelled are guess what... more than likely... RICH AND SPOILED. Their rich daddy paid for them to have a couple semesters abroad, where they likely just got drunk and partied. What makes that so respectable? Do you really want to date a rich, spoiled daddy's girl, anyways?

Even if they travelled on their own budget and/or for cultural reasons, what makes that so intimidating? I've found people that brag about how much they've travelled to be somewhat irritating and tryhard. The way I see it, they spend thousands of dollars for what I can see on Discovery Channel's Global Cultures specials. Someone who brags to me that they've spent a month in Mongolia hanging out on the steppes with horse herders will get nothing but a big obvious YAWN from me, because they're just trying to impress me. (However, if they bring it up humbly, then I am interested and have respect for their experiences). It just seems that too much of the time people just like to brag about travelling because it makes them seems sophisticated and worldy. Whatever.

A final point is that, you said that since you're intimidated by rich hot chicks that have travelled, you're doomed to either ugly girls or cashing in your citizenship. Now, I don't know how many hot girls you've met, but I've met quite a few hotties who's hobbies didn't extend past watching TV and staring off into space blankly. I guess it all depends on what sort of girl you want.


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Now, as far as being adventurous goes, that IS something you can change. You live in cali man, there's always stuff you can do. Take a weekend to yourself and go up to some forest land and do some hiking or something. Try surfing. Try martial arts. Drive faster. Join a gang.

Anyways, I hope I helped. Feel free to PM me (or AIM me @ Serialized3)

Good luck.

 

[Serialized3]

Another thing,

You would probably benefit greatly by becoming more educated. Now, you don't necessarily have to go enroll at UCLA or anything, but i would highly reccomend a few things to become more cultured and worldly

READ. A LOT. OF BOOKS. Being knowledgeable in philosophy, history, social geographies, and world politics will make you much more able to relate to worldly women. (The Economist and the Wall Street Journal are both great periodicals for keeping up with world events)

Go visit the art musems. Read a couple books on art history. Visit the opera or see some foreign films. (Personally, stuff like this tends to be a little too Euro-Centric for my tastes, so just explore what interests you)

 

[Delta]

hey serialized,

thanks much. your response is surprisingly benevolent (for sosuave.com) and helpful.

i'm not sure i agree that i have low self esteem. i think i have a pretty good handle on what i am.

but my sentiment is expressed in relation to what i'm reading in the personals. a girl would not be considered to have low self esteem if she feels that she can't measure up to ads that say (or intimate) that "she must be blazingly hot, big tits, ass that tastes like vanilla ice cream and sexual beyond measure."

have you seen the ads for attractive women on sites like match.com? if the hot chick who's comfortable just watching tv exists, she certainly isn't hitting up the personals!

[BUT... thank you very much - i recognize now that such girls MUST exist... somewhere.... reading personal ads for so long, that idea escaped me completely for a very long time.]

well, i didn't go to ucla but i went ucirvine... does that count? i'm pretty educated man. that is DEFINITELY not my problem. but as a "book geek", i've come to realize that in seduction, there is a difference between vicarious experience and actual experience. i can talk up a blue streak on anything from philosophy to string theory but i really am discovering that the head (intellectualism) is not the way to a woman's heart.

i actually LOVE the economist... and it's philosophy that every story can be understood by "following the money"... it is apt. it is brilliant.

ah. as for the socio-economic status of hot chicks, i'm operating under this world view:

- value of a woman is how hot she is.
- value of a man is how dominant (including financially) he is.

hot girl goes to physically hot guy is not exactly the equation in my mind.

hot girl goes to financially impressive guy is more what i'm seeing.

in that case, the hot chick has the ability to move up... and my intimidation comes from the fact that it is unlikely she will settle for less than fabulous wealth.
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as for your thoughts on pulling myself up by the bootstraps and the gauche aspect of travel... this is EXACTLY how i used to think.

that i had character for coming up from poverty... but y'know what? in the realm of seduction, HOW you got the money seems to have precious little relevance compared to WHETHER you have money now.

and i'm not even saying that all women are gold diggers... but money affects where and how you live, what you drive, etc. and if she's an attractive girl, she has lots of choices. this is the tough thing.

and as for travel, i am HUGELY unimpressed with it. i lived in los angeles all my life and everytime i strolled through trash strewn hollywood blvd, i kept thinking "people travel from all over the world to see THIS?!"

in my mind, wherever you go, that's where people live.

BUT... again, try reading some personals for attractive women on match.com... you would seem like there is a GENETIC PREDISPOSITION for attractive women to travel!

and it is, i think, in part about what it signifies - freedom, means, comfort and pleasure....

but you did me a real solid in reminding me not all women are like this. the personals, and the last woman i dated, really tweaked my perspective in regards to this.

now if you will further do me the favor of telling me where all these hot home-bodies are hanging out, i'd love to buy you a beer.



thanks again man.

delta

 

[Delta]

also,

in terms of wealth and travel - for women i think, it is their FANTASY.

just as it would be an ultra turn off for a woman to tell me that she's very plain under the makeup, she wears a push up bra and hates sex, i think that being upfront about not being impressed with travel puts a wet blanket on women's fantasy.

i used to be the kind of guy that says, "i hate travel, blah blah..." and be honest. but in doing so, i think i realize now that i am being completely selfish.

sure, it may be the reality, but as i said in my second post, it DOES seem like seduction and romantic relationships in more about perpetuating fantasy than being in the real world.

re-read my second post if you will... i'd be interested to hear what you think about it.

delta

 

[Captain Ramen]

Dude,

If they like to travel and they like to talk about themselves, it seems like it should be easy to get some poo-nanny. Just ask them about where they've been, get them talking about themselves, and all the sudden you've switched the script on them. Most girls I've met who've travelled want to tell me where they've been, what it was like, how it was different, blah blah blah...

Look I've been a number of places around the world and a lot of it was on someone else's tab so if you want to add that perspective do it(I don' think you do). There are a lot of opportunities to travel and get paid for it. It has nothing to do with your parent's level of income- my old man is a public school teacher, my family is far from rich and I managed to study abroad.

If you want to just bang girls that travel, seems kind of like you are interested in them, either call their bull**** or get them to sell themselves to you.

And to further play the devil's advocate, get the fu*ck out of SoCal, at least for a while. Expand your horizons. You don't say it, and you likely don't want to do it but get the hell out of your comfort zone. Comfort=safety=average=boring. Break that realm man, even if you only go for a while, go somewhere. It might make you appreciate why people come to visit where you live.

 

[Delta]

cr,

you represent the OTHER side... the side that values travel - at least in terms of getting out of california.

comfort=safety=average=boring....

right. but that's 90% of everybody.

and if you took that equation to the logical extreme, you'd be spending every night of your life hanging from the face of mt. everest with a great white shark gnawing on your leg... for the sake of not being boring.

but fwiw, you are indeed right and that it is valuable to get a perspective.

but here's the thing - that costs money.

how many non wealthy people can pick up and leave? jobs. current residence (with requisite RENT), bills, blah blah blah.

see? that's why non wealthy people are boring.

delta

 

[Serialized3]

Delta-

hey serialized,

thanks much. your response is surprisingly benevolent (for sosuave.com) and helpful.

Sure man. I really just want to help people out around here.

i'm not sure i agree that i have low self esteem. i think i have a pretty good handle on what i am.

but my sentiment is expressed in relation to what i'm reading in the personals. a girl would not be considered to have low self esteem if she feels that she can't measure up to ads that say (or intimate) that "she must be blazingly hot, big tits, ass that tastes like vanilla ice cream and sexual beyond measure."

Only you know who you truly are. You should be confident with who you are and with what you bring to the table in a relationship. I'm not unwaveringly-confident myself, but I know that I can be one of the best lovers that women have ever had.

And any chick making demands that a man have "male model looks, 6 foot + with over 500,000 in the bank, and be willing to send me all over the world travelling" is living in la-la land. Nobody can measure up to absurd requirements like that, and neither should we.

have you seen the ads for attractive women on sites like match.com? if the hot chick who's comfortable just watching tv exists, she certainly isn't hitting up the personals!

[BUT... thank you very much - i recognize now that such girls MUST exist... somewhere.... reading personal ads for so long, that idea escaped me completely for a very long time.]

There's a whole world outside of match.com. These girls represent a statistically insignificant (but highly visible) sample of american women. And yes, I have been on a couple of dating sites, and I've never had good luck (met some fatties and crazies...yeeech). Also, remember how easy it is to lie online. I would be willing to be a lot of these girls are lying about travelling, and are just looking to hook a man that would be able to financially support an opulent lifestyle.

well, i didn't go to ucla but i went ucirvine... does that count? i'm pretty educated man. that is DEFINITELY not my problem. but as a "book geek", i've come to realize that in seduction, there is a difference between vicarious experience and actual experience. i can talk up a blue streak on anything from philosophy to string theory but i really am discovering that the head (intellectualism) is not the way to a woman's heart.

i actually LOVE the economist... and it's philosophy that every story can be understood by "following the money"... it is apt. it is brilliant.

I truely apologize that I assumed you weren't educated. Just reading what you wrote sort of just gave me an impression that you were a blue collar type of guy. Didn't mean to be condescending at all, as you're older and probably more educated than I.

as for the socio-economic status of hot chicks, i'm operating under this world view:

- value of a woman is how hot she is.
- value of a man is how dominant (including financially) he is.

hot girl goes to physically hot guy is not exactly the equation in my mind.

hot girl goes to financially impressive guy is more what i'm seeing.

in that case, the hot chick has the ability to move up... and my intimidation comes from the fact that it is unlikely she will settle for less than fabulous wealth.

The way I see it, there are a LOT more hot chicks in the world than are available, rich men. There are gonna be a lot of "hot chicks" that are going to have to "settle" for a middle class guy. (Of course you could avoid all this by actively pursing the cute 7s and 8s that have their heads on straight)

------------------------------------------------------------------

as for your thoughts on pulling myself up by the bootstraps and the gauche aspect of travel... this is EXACTLY how i used to think.

that i had character for coming up from poverty... but y'know what? in the realm of seduction, HOW you got the money seems to have precious little relevance compared to WHETHER you have money now.

and i'm not even saying that all women are gold diggers... but money affects where and how you live, what you drive, etc. and if she's an attractive girl, she has lots of choices. this is the tough thing.

I'm at a different place in my life than you are, the girls I game (18-26 usually) tend to not care as much about how much money I have but rather what feelings and security I can provide them. But this might all change in 10 years or so, I have no idea.

and as for travel, i am HUGELY unimpressed with it. i lived in los angeles all my life and everytime i strolled through trash strewn hollywood blvd, i kept thinking "people travel from all over the world to see THIS?!"

in my mind, wherever you go, that's where people live.

BUT... again, try reading some personals for attractive women on match.com... you would seem like there is a GENETIC PREDISPOSITION for attractive women to travel!

Like I said before, the women on match.com are but a tiny, statistically insignificant little slice of the real, hot, cultured women that exist all over.

And on a side note, what makes you think that they aren't wearing 3 pounds of makeup, using a photgraph from 4 year ago before the weight gain (i've seen this), or haven't doctored out their imperfections using photoshop?

but you did me a real solid in reminding me not all women are like this. the personals, and the last woman i dated, really tweaked my perspective in regards to this.

now if you will further do me the favor of telling me where all these hot home-bodies are hanging out, i'd love to buy you a beer.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet the hottest chicks with the most boring personalities would be found at your local health club on the elliptical machines. And I'm sure you could buy her a beer, as long as it is a low-carb import

Glad to help.

S3

 

[Delta]

no problemo on construing my socio-economic status as you did....

i wrote in such a way so that i am conveying that i am inadequate financially... but i am comparing myself to the fabulously wealthy guys match.com girls are looking for.

i do alright. i do computer graphics. saved up a good bit of scratch. but i drive a $10k car (that's finally reliable and not colored rust!) and live in a small one bedroom apartment. i make decent money but it's complicated by the fact that i help out my parents too.... i really don't want to think how much money i could have saved up if it were not for that.

ack. that's another thing - i feel like my duty to my parents holds me back - making me fall behind... but in regards to this... what can you do?

was considering calling suze orman or something in regards to this.

anyhoo, thanks for your perspective. i'm glad there are younger chicks in the real world that aren't so focused on a guy's status. but again, even the YOUNG hotties on match seem to be shooting for dinner in paris!

and absolutely, one's "stage in life" does tend to play a part. i'm not quite old just yet but i can see a difference in the role money plays.

there is no shame in being poor when you're young. it is shameful to be an old man and poor (without extenuating circumstances of course).

cheers,

delta

 

[chili kat]

If you want these girls but you don't have the lifestyle they have, you have to go blue collar on them in a way. You have to appeal to their sexual urges with your very manliness.

I do this all of the time, and it's so easy. You have to admit to them up front you're just a mere grunt, you like guy movies, you smoke cigars and sh1t like that. Talk power tools. Talk about how you can screw up putting together a tricycle because you never read the directions. You have to put it all accross in a way where it seems like you know very well you're not the guy for her, but fvck it, you're trying anyway.

This works quite a bit for me because a lot of these women are surrounded by men that are just as spoiled and almost as feminine as they are. The idea of some rough-edged real man with a little muscle piledriving them in bed really appeals to them. Trust me, they'll forget all about Paris when really good sex can be insinuated.

 

[edmond]

Do something YOURSELF

So what if these people have been around, I have spent all my life traveling around and it doesn’t mean s**t. Get a rucksack on your back, go camping, go for a swim in the river, or go canoing, but do something YOURSELF and then you will have an achievement to boast about.