How many women should you be with before even considering a Relationship?

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

There is not a minimum. But what you need to be is on your purpose, whatever that is. If a woman shows up under those circumstances and supports you in your purpose? You might just have something. If you are casting about without purpose in your life you are likely to flail about with women too. This is because you don’t have a framework for the right girl to step into, your life is not yet ready for something or someone serious.

Your age is not the important variable. Your purpose is.

My son, just 21 years old, has long ago defined his purpose in life. He decided as a boy to follow in his grandfather’s footsteps and become a fighter pilot. He has made decisions and sacrifices in line with this goal all his life and he has overcome set backs along the way.

In high school he had his first girlfriend, nice girl, cute, touring softball team pitcher with Division 1 scholarship opportunities. My son broke off that LTR after nearly 2 years because her going off to play softball somewhere did not line up with his life plan.

He then began dating a girl he’s known since he was 10 and she was 9, he knew her from Catholic school. Cute girl, very feminine and deferential to him. She lost her virginity with him. As he starts his senior year in college this fall they have been together over 4 years. Upon graduation he will commission as an officer in the USAF. He plans to propose to her and marry. They want a family and she works in early childcare, but she did not attend college, rather she went to work after high school. She is available to go with him wherever his orders take him short of combat territory.

This is what purpose looks like. My son knew very early what he wanted to do, he has focused on that and he has a relationship that fits right in with his plan.

He has fraternity friends, friends that rotate girls and are playboys. He’s not interested in any of that, and could easily have done all that, he is very handsome and charming, he’s regionally the number 1 sales guy at his work despite being part time as well, a credit to his people skills.

So find your purpose in life. Don’t just drift. If you drift you’ll find it difficult to put anything together long term with a woman because you won’t know what kind of girl fits your life plan.

Food for thought.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Caleb Jones (aka Blackdragon, Alpha Male 2.0) and Rollo Tomassi have both said the same thing you said there.

So have Dr. F. Roger Devlin and Dr. Stephen Baskerville, who I think are people actually interested in fixing things.

 

[IKO69]

No one can give you an accurate number

Some people get it right very early on, some people spend a lifetime and get nowhere

I will say experience is the best teacher. Nothing whips you into shape faster than a couple of heart breaks.

 

[SW15]

If you are casting about without purpose in your life you are likely to flail about with women too. This is because you don’t have a framework for the right girl to step into, your life is not yet ready for something or someone serious.....So find your purpose in life. Don’t just drift. If you drift you’ll find it difficult to put anything together long term with a woman because you won’t know what kind of girl fits your life plan.

There are plenty of purposeless men in LTRs and purposeless men putting up solid notch counts. Many Beta Bob office workers with mediocre jobs have girlfriends/wives. As for seducers, look at someone like Roosh before he converted to Christianity. Roosh traveled the world looking to seduce and he seduced women across Europe and South America. @BPH is a 29 year old man living with his parents in Delaware has put up a 90 notch count despite not living near the singles dense neighborhoods in Philadelphia.

Looks matter more than purpose, especially for one night and a situationship.

I don't think my examples entirely dispel what you're saying because there are men who are also incel/borderline incel who lack purpose too.

My son, just 21 years old, has long ago defined his purpose in life. He decided as a boy to follow in his grandfather’s footsteps and become a fighter pilot. He has made decisions and sacrifices in line with this goal all his life and he has overcome set backs along the way.

He then began dating a girl he’s known since he was 10 and she was 9, he knew her from Catholic school. Cute girl, very feminine and deferential to him. She lost her virginity with him. As he starts his senior year in college this fall they have been together over 4 years. Upon graduation he will commission as an officer in the USAF. He plans to propose to her and marry. They want a family and she works in early childcare, but she did not attend college, rather she went to work after high school. She is available to go with him wherever his orders take him short of combat territory.

This is what purpose looks like. My son knew very early what he wanted to do, he has focused on that and he has a relationship that fits right in with his plan.

Interesting story. She's somewhat uncommon in this era. The 2010s data below was taken in early 2010s, so sex partner counts prior to marriage likely shifted between the early 2010s and early 2020s.



She is a better than average bet in a marriage with only 1 partner count before marriage, no bachelor's/advanced degree (avoids a careerist situation), and works in childcare.

In high school he had his first girlfriend, nice girl, cute, touring softball team pitcher with Division 1 scholarship opportunities. My son broke off that LTR after nearly 2 years because her going off to play softball somewhere did not line up with his life plan.

A lot of female NCAA athletes are promiscuous (see link below). Former soccer player Hope Solo is a good example of that. Female NCAA athletes have fit bodies and higher than average female testosterone levels from intense exercise. They are interested in a lot of sex.

Hope Solo on Olympic Village: "There's a Lot of Sex Going On" | Us Weekly

The gold medalist says she's seen people "getting down and dirty" on the grass and in between buildings

www.usmagazine.com

He has fraternity friends, friends that rotate girls and are playboys. He’s not interested in any of that, and could easily have done all that, he is very handsome and charming, he’s regionally the number 1 sales guy at his work despite being part time as well, a credit to his people skills.

Sales is persuasion and social skill. This is why I think @BPH would be a good sales rep. He successfully persuaded 90 women to have sex with him, which was a combination of looks and social skill.

 

[Serenity]

How many girls should you be with before you can start considering a relationship? 40? 50? 100?

That's not the way to measure when YOU are ready. You don't have to count to know when you're ready, you need only look at yourself.

You can consider a relationship when you truly understand what it's all about, what the risks are, whether the woman in question is fit for the role, what she wants out of it, what you want out of it and whether there's ANY possible confiict arising from that down the line.

Some people go through a bunch of relationships slowly learning more and more things to consider for the next attempt, others consider the multitude of possibilities and plan ahead for it. Needing to go through 40, 50, 100 or more would only be evidence of how incredibly dense you are to not have learned sooner or from other's mistakes.

Preferably you should have less than 5 relationships before getting relationships right. This is not counting less serious relationships such as FWB, ONS and anything before going exclusive. You don't learn sh!t about living in a relationship by banging a bunch of different women for a brief period of time, you only learn it by committing to it and giving it your best.

 

[BeExcellent]

There are plenty of purposeless men in LTRs and purposeless men putting up solid notch counts. Many Beta Bob office workers with mediocre jobs have girlfriends/wives. As for seducers, look at someone like Roosh before he converted to Christianity. Roosh traveled the world looking to seduce and he seduced women across Europe and South America. @BPH is a 29 year old man living with his parents in Delaware has put up a 90 notch count despite not living near the singles dense neighborhoods in Philadelphia.

Looks matter more than purpose, especially for one night and a situationship.

I don't think my examples entirely dispel what you're saying because there are men who are also incel/borderline incel who lack purpose too.



Interesting story. She's somewhat uncommon in this era. The 2010s data below was taken in early 2010s, so sex partner counts prior to marriage likely shifted between the early 2010s and early 2020s.

View attachment 10590

She is a better than average bet in a marriage with only 1 partner count before marriage, no bachelor's/advanced degree (avoids a careerist situation), and works in childcare.



A lot of female NCAA athletes are promiscuous (see link below). Former soccer player Hope Solo is a good example of that. Female NCAA athletes have fit bodies and higher than average female testosterone levels from intense exercise. They are interested in a lot of sex.

Hope Solo on Olympic Village: "There's a Lot of Sex Going On" | Us Weekly

The gold medalist says she's seen people "getting down and dirty" on the grass and in between buildings

www.usmagazine.com

Sales is persuasion and social skill. This is why I think @BPH would be a good sales rep. He successfully persuaded 90 women to have sex with him, which was a combination of looks and social skill.

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut. You’ve missed my point entirely.

What I’m saying is that my son is constructing his life according to his purpose, and everything is molded according to his plan, including his relationship, his education & career choices and future plans. He actively leads his relationship and his life and if anything needs to calibrate his strong leadership qualities as he prepares to enter a structured hierarchy (he tends, in his confidence and self assurance, to say directly what he thinks, and that can undermine his ambition starting out if he is too candid when he is expected to follow orders.)

He feels zero need or desire to put up some big notch count, he sees that as a distraction, an expense, and a liability when he knows he wants a solid life partnership. His purpose, focus and values have given him the sense to cut through all the dating BS and get what he wants. He does not envy a notch count of 90 at all. To him that indicates an inability to pick good women or it indicates hedonism, neither of which, in his estimation lead to good outcomes. He feels like the players are stupid & wasting their time, effort & money on frivolity. Why would he envy them? He literally laughs at that idea. His player friends have come to him in fact, wanting to know how he’s done it, because they envy what he has, having themselves been through the dating mill.

In other words he is far more efficient in his ability to pursue his life goals because his relationship status is not a distraction. Instead his relationship status is an asset to his growth and progression. His friends envy the solid relationship he has, and his relationship status is not an accident.

Your statistics do not matter. Worship of the playboy lifestyle is misplaced and unsatisfying at the end of the day (as told to me by player friends with notch counts well into the hundreds)….but for men who can’t relate due to their own lack of abundance, looks, whatever, they think pursuit of those things like notch count brings satisfaction. It doesn’t.

All your statistics show is the percentage of people who have had a certain partner count through time. Those are macro trends. As an individual it is simple to buck the trend by simply taking a contrarian perspective. I’d argue that is precisely what my son has done, and it is also a direct reflection on how he was raised, even though his father and I are divorced some 9 years ago.

 

[SW15]

Worship of the playboy lifestyle is misplaced and unsatisfying at the end of the day (as told to me by player friends with notch counts well into the hundreds)….but for men who can’t relate due to their own lack of abundance, looks, whatever, they think pursuit of those things like notch count brings satisfaction. It doesn’t.

This thread covered that topic to some degree.

Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide. Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex. Neil Strauss: Was...

www.sosuave.net

Roosh wrote about what you described from the players you've known over time.

It's still way better to be a seducer with a high notch count than an incel.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Few things come to mind.

What's the quality of the women you get? Be honest. Because it's difficult (for me) to imagine a man(with a 16 ish notch count) fecking a beautiful smart woman and NOT catching feelings. That would make more sense if you had 160 women for example.


I agree. I don't know. (Failed) relationships are necessary to become a man. Its part of a man's journey. If you only ever see women from a ONS or just sex pov imo you're kinda missing out..


Interesting take.

It seems that the narrative is completely different from what it was when and where I grew up. Having "the hottest women in town as gf's " was kinda of a status symbol for us back then. Everybody had a girlfriend or multiple girlfriends. Now it seems as having a girlfriend means a man is beta by default.

While imo, if YOU are a catch women will
simply try to lock you down. You either put up a extremely high notch count, or one woman will come along and take you off the market.

Oh, and prostitution is legal here, and I can already tell you that fecking a prostitute will NEVER be the same as lets say a ONS, even if its the same woman! The quality of sex isn't comparable. Its like eating Mexican from tacobell vs eating Mexican at someone's house made by someone's grandmother.

Perhaps that's my whole point: being with one woman over a extended period of time also means another way of having sex. If you never cross the 6 months mark you won't ever find out.

I’m pleased with the quality of women I’ve closed. I want to post receipts sometimes, but that can get you in trouble so I haven’t done it.

I’m not catching feelings because:
1.) I need to stay single to accomplish some crazy ish in the game
2.) My retention could use some work.

 

[SW15]

I’m pleased with the quality of women I’ve closed. I want to post receipts sometimes, but that can get you in trouble so I haven’t done it.

I’m not catching feelings because:
1.) I need to stay single to accomplish some crazy ish in the game
2.) My retention could use some work.

Retention matters most to men who desire longer term relationships of some kind.

If your retention was better, you might get more situationships/casual sex arrangements. Some would think that would be good.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Retention matters most to men who desire longer term relationships of some kind.

If your retention was better, you might get more situationships/casual sex arrangements. Some would think that would be good.

That’s definitely an aspect of the game I’ll be working on this coming year.

 

[BadBoy89]

How many girls should you be with before you can start considering a relationship? 40? 50? 100?

For me personally, there is a 0% chance that I’ll be in any kind of relationship for the next 3 years minimum.

Ask us again in 3 years.

All a man should do is get a girl, with 0 divorces and 0 kids, pregnant before she turns 30. That should be his only goal in life. Once she gets pregnant and delivers a healthy baby, then he can go do whatever he wants. Open a business, workout, get in shape, dress well, have hobbies, make money, conquer the world.

The advice here is backwards, it’s “open a business, workout, get in shape, dress well, have hobbies, make money, conquer the world, and THEN get the girl.” By then it’s too late, the girl has lost her most fertile years, her youth, her sexiness, she has slept with the neighbourhood, has 1 divorce and possibly 1 kid.

Cant win them all.

 

[Gamisch]

I’m pleased with the quality of women I’ve closed. I want to post receipts sometimes, but that can get you in trouble so I haven’t done it.

I’m not catching feelings because:
1.) I need to stay single to accomplish some crazy ish in the game
2.) My retention could use some work.

I dont know man...

I know the general consensus here is to stay single and yadiya. But if ANY member comes across a TRUE dimepiece of a woman he'd be a idiot to let her go because a niche forum told him to "spin plates".

If you catch a great one might as well gibe it a shot and stick with her for SOME time, and learn some Male female relationship dynamics.

Kinda sounds like the problem women have; they'll let the better prospects walk because "there's more out more", but few years later they regret it. 16 notch count imo is only justified when at least 4 or 5 of them were long term relationships, like 2 years at least.

Your answer is rather vague. What crazy shyte you try to accomplish??

 

[IKO69]

I dont know man...

I know the general consensus here is to stay single and yadiya. But if ANY member comes across a TRUE dimepiece of a woman he'd be a idiot to let her go because a niche forum told him to "spin plates".

If you catch a great one might as well gibe it a shot and stick with her for SOME time, and learn some Male female relationship dynamics.

Kinda sounds like the problem women have; they'll let the better prospects walk because "there's more out more", but few years later they regret it. 16 notch count imo is only justified when at least 4 or 5 of them were long term relationships, like 2 years at least.

Your answer is rather vague. What crazy shyte you try to accomplish??

Most guys aren't about that life (being a player). A lot of the fellas, especially the one's that find their way on here, really just want one nice girlfriend and that's it. There's nothing wrong with that either. I agree with what you said if you come across a dime whose inside matches her outside, you'd be foolish to let that go.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I dont know man...

I know the general consensus here is to stay single and yadiya. But if ANY member comes across a TRUE dimepiece of a woman he'd be a idiot to let her go because a niche forum told him to "spin plates".

If you catch a great one might as well gibe it a shot and stick with her for SOME time, and learn some Male female relationship dynamics.

Kinda sounds like the problem women have; they'll let the better prospects walk because "there's more out more", but few years later they regret it. 16 notch count imo is only justified when at least 4 or 5 of them were long term relationships, like 2 years at least.

Your answer is rather vague. What crazy shyte you try to accomplish??

Yeahhhh I had a very late start lol, I can admit that. That’s why the notch count is kind of low.

When I say “accomplish some crazy ish” I primarily mean getting that notch count higher.

 

[CornbreadFed]

One night stands and casual sex situationships provide some experience with women. A guy who has had many one night stands and situationships is going to be more attractive to women than an incel/borderline incel type guy.

I don't think a man needs multiple failed LTRs to get into a marriage.

I have to fully disagree. Before my first real relationship in my junior year of college, I had had up to 25 sexual encounters, including the night I was with 5 girls. These encounters weren't consistent, and I went through dry spells during summer, winter, and spring breaks. I honestly obtained these experiences by simply approaching women in party environments and applying the "say less" strategy. However, I was an Incel because I lacked the ability to communicate with girls in non-party environments. At that time, the thought of sober sex baffled me as well. After graduation, I hit a 3-year semi-dry spell, where I only occasionally engaged in physical relationships with my long-distance LTR (long-term relationship) every few months, until I met my second girlfriend who wasn't long distance. To be exact, I was trying to replace her and it took 3 years to finally do it. During this time, I struggled to relearn how to connect with women outside of party or bar settings. I faced a lot of flakes, got "catfished" by girls who would go on dates, and was left on read by the few I did connect with. Some posters, like @corrector, might disagree, but I definitely considered myself an Incel during these times.

 

[Serenity]

It's still way better to be a seducer with a high notch count than an incel.

To be fair, anything is better than the lowest tier, doesn't mean it's great though. It's kinda like eating junk food is better than not eating at all, to extend this analogy I'd say being a player is a lot like eating junk food, good right now, but not so much in the long run...

 

[CornbreadFed]

To be fair, anything is better than the lowest tier, doesn't mean it's great though. It's kinda like eating junk food is better than not eating at all, to extend this analogy I'd say being a player is a lot like eating junk food, good right now, but not so much in the long run...

This exactly

 

[Gamisch]

Yeahhhh I had a very late start lol, I can admit that. That’s why the notch count is kind of low.

When I say “accomplish some crazy ish” I primarily mean getting that notch count higher.

I get that .

I'm just saying..there's getting your count up because 1. You really REALLY need some more experience 2. because its "sounds cool" to say I slept with xyz number of women.

Imo 1 means you were in a steady relationship for years and you missed out. I geuss the same might apply when you have a incel-ish past. But its a thin line with option 2. I am just saying, be careful not to miss out and ditch good women.

 

[HaleyBaron]

How many women should you be with before even considering a Relationship?

Zero. Cause after the first, you will never want to be in a relationship again.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There is no set number. You meet a quality person whenever you meet a quality person. Could be the first one you date and you might not meet another for 5 years or more. Could take you 5 years or more to meet one.

Don't create rigid rules in your life that by default cause you to miss opportunities.

Instead, take advantage of opportunities that come your way by being ready and prepared for them and just make sure you screen properly.