How many are buying before the coming gun control?

[Flabbergasped?]

You know Rolex's bore chicks, right? I saw this nerdy kid talking about this sundial he made so he could tell the time without needing his dungeons and dragons watch.

 

[ketostix]

Killias' most extensive study, however, covering 21 countries, found no significant association between gun ownership rates and rates of homicide, suicide, robbery, or assault. Gun ownership rates appeared to affect weapon choice, but not the total number of people killed or victimized

And you know what, places that have strict gun control have some of the most crime and violence. Mexico has strict gun control, so did Washington D.C. Guns don't cause violence, violent people do. Some of the gun control people should read this and start their education (and liberals like to say conservatives are ignorant ):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control

 

[bigjohnson]

And you know what, places that have strict gun control have some of the most crime and violence.

Gun control advocates like to play games with those numbers and quote statistics for gun violence as if (in the words of Archie Bunker) "they'd be less dead if they jumped out a window".

Places with ready access to X tend to use X in violence ....

Shocking discovery I tell you.

 

[LowPlainsDrifter]

Gun control advocates like to play games with those numbers and quote statistics for gun violence as if (in the words of Archie Bunker) "they'd be less dead if they jumped out a window".

Places with ready access to X tend to use X in violence ....

Shocking discovery I tell you.

I have a great example of how "more guns = more crime" = false.
Miami recently recorded a month with zero murders.
Florida is a very gun-friendly state, other than forbidding open carry.
It's also surrounded by other generally gun-friendly states.
Chicago is having a record bad year with homicides. The state
of Illinois is one of the most restrictive in the nation, and Chicago
has a handgun ban on top of that.

Clearly, gun control does not equal crime control.

I agree with a previous poster that full-auto weapons can actually offer a tactical disadvantage. Too much temptation to "spray and pray."
In a hypothetical mall shooting, if the perp has a full auto vs. a similar semi-auto only, there might actually be fewer causalties, although patrol cops arriving on scene might be more reluctant to engage a shooter with full-auto.

 

[SharinganUser]

As a Canadian, I can tell you that anything more than a complete ban on certain types of guns is a complete waste of time, money and energy. For a long time our government had "Gun Registration" in a vein attempt to reduce gun violence. Why didn't it work? Because the only people that were registering their weapons were law abiding hunters. No criminal is going to say this "Damn guys, I can't go on the shoot out with you because I forgot to register my gun."

 

[LowPlainsDrifter]

How many are buying AR-15's the "evil black rifle ", AK's, SKS' and the like, high capacity magazines and ammo before the new administration bans, taxes and regulates all of them?

I think it's a very good idea to stock up on military style rifles, ammunition for those weapons, and magazines with more than a ten-round capacity.
Also not a bad idea to get a semi-auto rifle or two in the same caliber with innocuous -looking wooden stocks, no pistol grip, etc.
Honestly, my gut-level feeling is that Obama is going to have his hands so full with economic and foreign policy issues that he isn't even going to mention new federal gun laws during his first term.

 

[bigjohnson]

I have a great example of how "more guns = more crime" = false.
Miami recently recorded a month with zero murders.
Florida is a very gun-friendly state, other than forbidding open carry.
It's also surrounded by other generally gun-friendly states.
Chicago is having a record bad year with homicides. The state
of Illinois is one of the most restrictive in the nation, and Chicago
has a handgun ban on top of that.

Clearly, gun control does not equal crime control.

As much as I LIKE your conclusions I feel I must point out that such single data points are not on their own statistically valid as a proof. It's more correct IMO to simply say that (As Keto points out) there is no real causation proved EITHER way.

Some places like Japan with tight gun control have low crime. Other places with lax gun laws have ... low crime. It seems to be a societal thing to me.

 

[LowPlainsDrifter]

I totally agree, guns are stupid... why bother to have them at all? Leave that to the police and military where killing belongs. Wouldn't you guys be just as satisfied with replicas? It would certainly reduce the amount of 'accidents' that can happen and when was the last time the British attacked anyhow?

Then again I'm Canadian and I think all Americans are basically gun crazy.

What about just learning martial arts if you need to feel more secure... at least here I can drive down the street and give everyone the finger without getting shot.

The sort of aggressive people that commit violent crime have significant tactical advantages over even someone that's well-trained in martial arts.
The bad guys have initiative, strength and viciousness/ruthlessness on their side.
Even someone who has a black belt and a decent awareness mentality is going to have a difficult fight on their hands against most of these thugs.

Mere seconds can go by between the forced entry of a violent burglar, and their contact with the occupant of that home. Another few seconds later, this tactically surprised victim-to-be will most likely have a gun pushed in their face, or be brutally choke-holded, struck with an improvised weapon, or mortally stabbed. The best police response is probably 30 - 90 seconds, but the average is a lot worse than that.

I don't have facts to back me up, but I get the impression that an increasing number of compliant victims are being left at the scene dead.
I've seen plenty of "America's Most Wanted" videos in which store clerks do their best to comply, and are rewarded with death. If a dying brain can muster any coherent thought, I would imagine the foremost notion would be wishing they had at least tried to resist, or had a weapon to fight back with.

With that in mind, what do you suggest people in these situations do for protection? Only a firearm is a true equalizer...

 

[LowPlainsDrifter]

There's a pdf file on the internet on how to make a 9mm submachine gun. It's illegal to make, btw. So don't even think about it. I think the name of the book is Homemade Expedient Firearms.

We are armed to the teeth down here in the South, btw. I think we'll be able to take care of ourselves if worse comes to worse. There are people who drive around here with carloads full of heat for sale. You just have to know the right people. If Washington ever did do something as foolhardy as try to take our guns away you would have 1861 all over again. I don't think it's in the cards at this point. But they will try and use all sorts of sneaky backdoor ways of taking our guns away. Ways that rednecks like us will not be able to pick up on until it's too late. The pen is mightier than the sword is what they say.

"The power to tax is the power to destroy."
I suspect these "back door" methods will include huge ammunition taxes, banning lead projectiles for crazy environmental reasons, mandatory NICS background check fee (most likely a huge fee), taxes on ammo magazines, just to name a few. Bans/high tariffs on imported guns to "keep the American gun industry competitive" Another scenario is mandating some sort of crazy "safety devices" for newly manufactured guns, too, so that the domestic gunmakers go bankrupt meeting the new requirements.

 

[MrLuvr]

I was surprised when McFailin managed to get 46% of the vote. But, reading these posts, it is quite apparent that there are quite a few crazy right wing nuts in the USA. Good thing government has been pryed away from their dangerous hands.. for now.

 

[user43770]

As much as I LIKE your conclusions I feel I must point out that such single data points are not on their own statistically valid as a proof. It's more correct IMO to simply say that (As Keto points out) there is no real causation proved EITHER way.

Some places like Japan with tight gun control have low crime. Other places with lax gun laws have ... low crime. It seems to be a societal thing to me.

I tend to agree with John Lott when it comes to gun control.

 

[LowPlainsDrifter]

I was surprised when McFailin managed to get 46% of the vote. But, reading these posts, it is quite apparent that there are quite a few crazy right wing nuts in the USA. Good thing government has been pryed away from their dangerous hands.. for now.

The Patriot Act and other Administration abuses of the Constitution took place with the help of Democrats.

That said, I already see Obama reversing a lot of the current president's executive decrees, which to me in toto represent a strong power grab and a desire for dictatorial power.

Unfortunately a lot of my fellow second amendment supporters (in general, not necessarily on here) are quite willing to elect an authoritarian republican like McCain (true Republicans do not want to expand government, tell women what to do with their bodies, interfere with scientists, etc) on the hope that he won't be a "gun grabber." Oh, well. Don't blame me either way... I always vote for the Libertarian candidate.

 

[ketostix]

Honestly, my gut-level feeling is that Obama is going to have his hands so full with economic and foreign policy issues that he isn't even going to mention new federal gun laws during his first term.

I look for him to EO infringements sometime this coming year. All it takes is a stroke of a pen. They have all this stuff written and ready to go. I look for the legislation of a ban to be introduce sometime within 3 years.

I was surprised when McFailin managed to get 46% of the vote. But, reading these posts, it is quite apparent that there are quite a few crazy right wing nuts in the USA. Good thing government has been pryed away from their dangerous hands.. for now.

That's something a feminist would say too. You have a lot to learn if you think gun control people don't include plenty of crazies. How many people did socialists kill, 10's of millions, and many of their victims were unarmed and their own people too. That's not to say all or most gun control or socialists are like that, but neither are 2nd amendment advocates crazies. I trust someone who wants to preserve individuals gun and constitutional rights over someone who wants to ban them any day.

As a Canadian, I can tell you that anything more than a complete ban on certain types of guns is a complete waste of time, money and energy. For a long time our government had "Gun Registration" in a vein attempt to reduce gun violence. Why didn't it work? Because the only people that were registering their weapons were law abiding hunters. No criminal is going to say this "Damn guys, I can't go on the shoot out with you because I forgot to register my gun."

A complete ban is their goal (well complete except for the government), only the constitution has prevented it. they have basically complete bans in places like mexico, but it doesn't work. It's simple, it's people that cause crime not guns.

 

[SharinganUser]

A complete ban is their goal (well complete except for the government), only the constitution has prevented it. they have basically complete bans in places like mexico, but it doesn't work. It's simple, it's people that cause crime not guns.

I really agree with that. Part of the solution would be to make abortion more readily available to women. I don't care to explain it now, but in Freakenomics, the Author braught up some good points as to why abortion lowers crime rates.

 

[ElChoclo]

I'll put it in perspective for you. Here, we could own semi auto centrefires, shotguns, rimfires until 1996. Now all centrefire/rimfire semi autos are licensed virtually only to government agencies. Some auto shotgun under grandfathering, only for clay shooting no hunting.

All now registered since 1996. Legislation says self defence is an invalid reason for ownership.

Handgun only for target, must be club member, restricted as to type, mag etc. Regular club attendance mandatory. Nil criminal record mandatory.

We still have the same anti nut jobs which you have. They get their ideas from your nut jobs and regurgitate them here. If you want to live like we do, you can listen to these people who know nothing about life and who distrust their fellow citizens. I call them fearful idiots. They got what they asked for in 96, but they still keep wanting more.

So, whatever you give them, they will want more and more, until in the end, you will have nothing more to give them. Now, here, we have the distinction of having the only 2 legislators in the entire world and the only single issue party on this issue in the entire world, because we had to, to protect ourselves from these people.

 

[In Motion]

The 2nd is about a citizen army

Omg that is officially the most ridiculous argument ever.
The point of the second amendment is to ensure that citizens have the ability to fight off tyranical governments. Right?

This is truly the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. So this is what your saying: we need assault rifles because, in the hypothetical situation that the government should declare national martial law and put troops on every street corner (which is of course literally impossible), we would need to be able to conduct street to street combat with the aforementioned imaginary troops. This street to street combat between trained combat troops and a crew of bank tellers, farmers, gas station attendents, and Wal-Mart greeters would be a complete one sided massacre UNLESS the civilians had automatic weapons.

SO to sum it up:
Wal-Mart greeter+.22 caliber hunting rifle<brainwashed Army soldier trying to assume control of U.S.

Wal-Mart greeter+Badass automatic rifle>brainwashed Army soldier trying to assume control of U.S.



Yeeeeaaaah. I sorta just blew a bigass hole in your logic.

 

[bigjohnson]

Omg that is officially the most ridiculous argument ever.

....

I sorta just blew a bigass hole in your logic.

The SCOTUS has respectfully begged to disagree with you. OMG!


You're trying a classic strawman argument here. All I said is that the 2nd is not about hunting or hobby use, it's about citizens protecting themselves with a specific point made (not by ME, by the framers for godsake) of discussing "security of a free State".

Go argue with THEM if you don't like it, I'm just repeating the facts man.

 

[PRMoon]

All's I can say is when the zombie attack finally hits home, you'll all WISH you would of bought assault rifles as opposed to the low calibre pop guns you're gonna be left with. Mark my f*ckin words!!!

I like guns. A lot of the dangerous criminals I've met out here in the south west have high powered guns so f*ck if I don't own a few myself. OOOO I just saw an M1 Carbine and a replica MP40 for sale for 1,000! Looks like I'm adding to the collection!

 

[ketostix]

So, whatever you give them, they will want more and more, until in the end, you will have nothing more to give them. Now, here, we have the distinction of having the only 2 legislators in the entire world and the only single issue party on this issue in the entire world, because we had to, to protect ourselves from these people.

You are exactly right. The fact that they can suddenly just take away a right that has been in the constitution for 220+ years (U.S) and a right that goes back 100's of years before that tells you that all your rights are by fiat of the current government. And they can take a way rights any time they want, so you effectively have no rights or freedom.

I'll put it in perspective for you. Here, we could own semi auto centrefires, shotguns, rimfires until 1996. Now all centrefire/rimfire semi autos are licensed virtually only to government agencies. Some auto shotgun under grandfathering, only for clay shooting no hunting.

Handgun only for target, must be club member, restricted as to type, mag etc. Regular club attendance mandatory. Nil criminal record mandatory.
We still have the same anti nut jobs which you have. They get their ideas from your nut jobs and regurgitate them here. If you want to live like we do, you can listen to these people who know nothing about life and who distrust their fellow citizens. I call them fearful idiots. They got what they asked for in 96, but they still keep wanting more.

Yep they hit us in '94 and then figured whatever they could do in the U.S. they could do even more in Australia and Europe. These types seem obsessed with taking away rights and controlling the U.S./European people. It's all part and parcel of their ideology that white/european men are the devil.

All now registered since 1996. Legislation says self defence is an invalid reason for ownership.

Well when you don't really have any rights, why should you even have the right to defend yourself either?

Anyway it does say in the U.S. constitution that the people have a right to disband the government if it becomes too corrupt and oppressive. Technically legislators and government officials who violate or infringe upon the constitution are enemies of the military.

 

[thedeparted]

I bought a pump action Mossberg 500 and a S&W 686P but that was about the economy and not the gun laws ;-). I thought about getting a Springfield .40 with the 16 round clip or the .45 with 14 rounds, since that's exactly the type of gun that Obama wants to ban. But I'd like to find a .45 with a large clip that's steel rather than plastic. Less kick, and more effective for beating a guy on the face with ;-)~