How long??

[apocolipto]

Hey guys, my lifting stats are on my journal, but I have a Q.

I deadlift 100KG, still gonna up to 140KG as I know I can do it.
Bench 90KG.
Squat 120KG
Overhead 50kg,90KG on machine.
Barbell row 70KG.

I still look skinny,but I think I'm relatively strong.When will the muscle start to pack on??:trouble:

 

[Krueg]

It can be numerous factors; Your diet, rest, training program, body type and or genetics to name a few.

Some people can get good results in the first year or two, while it could take 3-5 years for others to start getting the results they want. It takes time and dedication...

 

[apocolipto]

I'm really dedicated to lifting, as I love it! Even though I'm not where I want to be, I look good.All that matters.

I don't really have a strict diet as I live with parents.But I eat healthy and A LOT! No junk food.
I train mondays and wednesday,friday.
I follow the stronglifts 5x5.

But thanks for a nice answer.

 

[Krueg]

I'd say your on the right tack, only time will tell.

One thing I like to do is visualise, have a clear picture in my mind of how I want to look. When you look in the mirror, you have to see yourself as you are and how you want to be as well. You have to see in your your mind's eye the masses of muscles you'll be creating. Such images will give your mind and body a clear-cut task.

I also like to put the mind in the muscle, rather than thinking of the weight itself. For example, when I'm doing bench press, I'm visualising my chest being big and I'm thinking about that muscle, I can feel everything happening to it, rather than trying to exert brute strength, loose control and not feel what my muscle is doing.

Another thing I like to do is flex and stretch the muscle(s) I'm working in-between sets. This is just me, but I feel it helps me.

 

[apocolipto]

Thanks for the tips,the visualisation seems like self-hypnosis.Lol

I always think of strength while lifting, hadn't thought about focusing on the muscle itself as you stated.Will try it and come back to you.

 

[Cavedude]

Look into your diet and make sure you're getting enough calories to eat at a surplus. You're going to grow very slowly if you're just eating at maintenance compared to let's say you eat at a 400-500 caloric surplus everyday. There will be a noticeable difference in size in 5-6 weeks.

 

[Krueg]

I'm not saying dont go heavy, but you dont want it too heavy that you cant maintain strict form.

 

[marmel75]

Some things to consider to make the most out of the training you are doing:

1) No carbs within 2 hours of a workout-carbs in your system blunt the release of growth hormone while training at this time. No fat within 4 hours of a workout. Fat at this time increases the likelihood you will end up storing it due to the insulin spike after training.

2) Make sure you have excess amino acids floating around in your body preworkout. Eat a quick absorbing protein like chicken, turkey or egg whites 60 minutes prior to lifting or take 20g of whey protein 30 minutes prior to lifting.

3) 15 minutes prior to lifting, ingest 10-15g of BCAA's or 5g of EAA's to increase protein synthesis(3-6 times more)

4) 30 minutes into the workout ingest 40-60g of quick absorbing carbs, preferably something like Kwik Karb, Dymatize Flud, Pure Karbolyn or Vitargo. Dymatize Flud is super cheap, like $15 at allstarhealth.com for a 4lb container. Quick absorbing carbs at this point shut off cortisol release, keeping the body in an anabolic state. Drastic difference in cortisol levels between people who do this and people who don't.

5) Try and keep workouts 45 minutes or less. Testosterone release peaks at 45 minutes and then rapidly falls, while cortisol continues to increase after this time. To be in an anabolic state, you want the highest testosterone level possible coupled with the lowest cortisol level possible, which is known as the "Anabolic ratio". If need be, it would be better to run bodypart splits, ie, train 1st bodypart in the AM, then wait at least 4-6 hours and train the other bodypart in the PM, both workouts under 45 minutes. If supplementation after both workouts is not feasible due to budgetary reasons, supplement after the bigger muscle group(ie, Back and Hamstrings, supplement while doing back)

6) Immediately after working out, ingest 10-15g of BCAA's again, along with 40-60g of whey protein.

7) Within 2 hours of ending training, eat a meal that is a 1:1 ratio of protein:carbs, roughly 50-60g of each.


Also, make sure you are eating plenty of carbs and protein...a minimum of 1g per pound of protein and about double the amount of carbs. For each gram of carbohydrate the muscle cells take in, they also take in 3g of water, which causes the muscle to swell in size. This is why its called a carbo"hydrate"...it "hydrates" the muscle cells by pulling in water...

 

[MrNiceGuy23]

Hey guys, my lifting stats are on my journal, but I have a Q.

I deadlift 100KG, still gonna up to 140KG as I know I can do it.
Bench 90KG.
Squat 120KG
Overhead 50kg,90KG on machine.
Barbell row 70KG.

I still look skinny,but I think I'm relatively strong.When will the muscle start to pack on??:trouble:

Size and mass comes down to one thing and one thing only: DIET.

Strength has almost nothing to do with the size of your muscles. Sure it has some effect if you're benching 300 pounds or squatting 400 pounds but generally speaking, you can have a normal sized physique and a lot of strength.

If you want to build mass all you have to do is eat more. Figure out what your daily caloric intake should be to sustain your bodyweight and then add 300-500 calories to that diet. You should see about a 2 pound gain per week. This won't all be muscle as it's really only feasible to gain about 2 pounds of pure muscle a month but as long as you're eating healthy, most of this weight will be muscle and you won't pack on too much fat. You can always cut your body fat percentage down once you achieve your desired size.

It can be numerous factors; Your diet, rest, training program, body type and or genetics to name a few.

Some people can get good results in the first year or two, while it could take 3-5 years for others to start getting the results they want. It takes time and dedication...

I'm not sure where your information is from but 3-5 years is ridiculous. It's not going to take 3 years for somebody to see significant increase in their muscle size, hell it won't even take 1 year.

If you eat properly and lift properly (heavy to gain mass, light to tone) you will see results in a few weeks, maybe a month or two if you're a slow gainer with subpar genetics.

Everybody experiences some form of "noob gains" in the beginning where they see a big increase in strength and a noticeable increase in size but you still will see steady increases if you do everything properly.

After my ~ 1 year hiatus from weight lifting (losing nearly 90% of the muscle in my left leg from surgery) I went from not being able to squat because my leg was so weak and the muscle was gone to squatting 350+ pounds less than a year later. My quads are huge now.

It's all about sticking to a workout routine and schedule, tracking your gains and challenging yourself to push the limits, and eating right. If you do all of this I'd say you can see great gains in 3-4 weeks. I was 6'2" 155 pounds this time last year and now I'm ~ 195 pounds, 10 pounds shy of my goal. Probably going to bulk up to 215-220 and then cut my body fat percentage back down to around 5% (currently around 13%).

 

[Quiksilver]

Hey guys, my lifting stats are on my journal, but I have a Q.

I deadlift 100KG, still gonna up to 140KG as I know I can do it.
Bench 90KG.
Squat 120KG
Overhead 50kg,90KG on machine.
Barbell row 70KG.

I still look skinny,but I think I'm relatively strong.When will the muscle start to pack on??:trouble:

When you start to add volume and correct repetition/set parameters to your training.

Strength is not an indicator of size. You can be quite small but very strong.

Size IS an indicator of strength. Generally, the bigger you are, the stronger you are.

At your level I would split your training cycles up into the following:

Cycle 1 = strength

Cycle 2 = strength

Cycle 3 = hypertrophy

Cycle 4 = strength

Repeat.

As you get more advanced (toward your goal strength), you can go:

Cycle 1 = Strength

Cycle 2 = Hypertrophy

Cycle 3 = Strength

Cycle 4 = Hypertrophy

Repeat.

A cycle should be approx 10-12 weeks in length, with assistance movements rotating between different variations every 5-6 weeks.

-----

If you only perform Strength cycles for years on end, be prepared to be strong but not as big as you want to be.

And if you only perform Hypertrophy cycles for years on end, be prepared to get moderately big, but not as big or strong as you want to be.

 

[Jack Wealthy]

Some things to consider to make the most out of the training you are doing:

1) No carbs within 2 hours of a workout-carbs in your system blunt the release of growth hormone while training at this time. No fat within 4 hours of a workout. Fat at this time increases the likelihood you will end up storing it due to the insulin spike after training.

2) Make sure you have excess amino acids floating around in your body preworkout. Eat a quick absorbing protein like chicken, turkey or egg whites 60 minutes prior to lifting or take 20g of whey protein 30 minutes prior to lifting.

3) 15 minutes prior to lifting, ingest 10-15g of BCAA's or 5g of EAA's to increase protein synthesis(3-6 times more)

4) 30 minutes into the workout ingest 40-60g of quick absorbing carbs, preferably something like Kwik Karb, Dymatize Flud, Pure Karbolyn or Vitargo. Dymatize Flud is super cheap, like $15 at allstarhealth.com for a 4lb container. Quick absorbing carbs at this point shut off cortisol release, keeping the body in an anabolic state. Drastic difference in cortisol levels between people who do this and people who don't.

5) Try and keep workouts 45 minutes or less. Testosterone release peaks at 45 minutes and then rapidly falls, while cortisol continues to increase after this time. To be in an anabolic state, you want the highest testosterone level possible coupled with the lowest cortisol level possible, which is known as the "Anabolic ratio". If need be, it would be better to run bodypart splits, ie, train 1st bodypart in the AM, then wait at least 4-6 hours and train the other bodypart in the PM, both workouts under 45 minutes. If supplementation after both workouts is not feasible due to budgetary reasons, supplement after the bigger muscle group(ie, Back and Hamstrings, supplement while doing back)

6) Immediately after working out, ingest 10-15g of BCAA's again, along with 40-60g of whey protein.

7) Within 2 hours of ending training, eat a meal that is a 1:1 ratio of protein:carbs, roughly 50-60g of each.


Also, make sure you are eating plenty of carbs and protein...a minimum of 1g per pound of protein and about double the amount of carbs. For each gram of carbohydrate the muscle cells take in, they also take in 3g of water, which causes the muscle to swell in size. This is why its called a carbo"hydrate"...it "hydrates" the muscle cells by pulling in water...

1) is broscience, 6) is excessive. Research showed no difference between 30g and 60g of whey in normal weightlifters. The only people benefiting from that much are bodybuilders and powerlifters, besides, skim milk has enough extra in it too.

Besides that good tips.

 

[DanZy]

True but you should not be afraid to do cheat reps to shock the muscle. These days with all these NO boosters, I've found it less important to worry about form. Without them though you do need good form to pump up the target muscle.

Ok that's totally wrong. Cheat reps mean your using other muscle groups and the concept of "shocking" the muscle is bogus. Enjoy your injuries mate

 

[DanZy]

The concept of shocking the muscle is not even remotely controversial. You must mix up number of reps/weight/angles to achieve stimulation. You are not old enough to have experienced real plateaus.

Re: cheat reps, they are more controversial but sure, me and all the pros that use them are wrong lol. I've never been injured doing them.

To the OP, there are two sides to the issue, so do what works for you.

That's not shocking the muscle, that's simply moving onto a different form of stimuli and therefore it works. The concept of constantly changing your routine to shock the muscle is pointless, that's what I'm getting at.

"me and all the pros" sounds like broscience to me. Cheat reps don't target the muscle at all. For example if you do cheat reps on bicep curls, you're working your back and shoulders more than anything else. If you're talking about focusing on the negative, that's a totally different concept.

 

[DanZy]

No one said "constantly" except you.

Professional bodybuilders are "broscience"? Cheat reps are at the point of failure where you cannot do another rep except by "cheating" by using momentum. You are still attacking the bicep, it is simply not as isolated as it was. I highly recommend you read a serious bodybuilding magazine like Flex or MD so that you are on the cutting edge and not just reading message forums or repeating old wives tales told to you by your high school gym coach lol.

I'm saying that changing things here and there when you plateau are fine. Otherwise it's a waste of time and it certainly doesn't shock the muscle. Shocking the muscle is still bull****. You're simply changing the form of stimuli and therefore activate the muscle fibres differently.

Professional bodybuilders generally know very little. They have perfect genetics and use heaps of steroids etc. Cheat reps don't actually do anything to the "target" muscle. Crossfit is based on momentum and well it's truly retarded. If you're swinging the bar using your back, you're not working your biceps at all. Working past failure isnt needed at all. Just because bodybuilders do it, doesn't mean it applies to anyone else. Steroids mean you can do anything and grow. You could literally do nothing and still see considerable gains.

Flex? Really? Hahahahahahahahahahah. Bodybuilding magazines are owned and run by the supplement companies. They're nothing more than glorified adverts that you pay for. You really read that crap? Wow, you must be so knowledgable. Do you eat protein every 2 hours? Do you think that your body can only digest 30grams of protein at once? You probably think that eating 6 meals a day is essential too. Is the pump better than cumming? If Ronny Coleman endorses creatine suppositories and Flex has a 10 page feature on them talking about how huge and ripped youre going to get, are you going to use them? Aw that's so sweet.

My information stems from the proper research and opinions of the best in the business. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm clueless. You really think you're on the cutting edge? Ignorance is truly bliss. Enjoy paying for the same regurgitated crap over and over. Oh and those creatine suppositories will be fun.

 

[DanZy]

Misquoting me and ignoring the rest of what I said means only one thing, you have no real way of properly answering. Bodybuilders do know about bodybuilding but most of them are limited to "eat x amount of protein, do y number of reps, inject z substance etc". I see you probably have similar knowledge. There's no real understanding though, they don't actually know any real theory beyond what their coaches, buddies and crap magazines tell them. Therefore their knowledge is very limited.
Don't forget the creatine suppositories!

 

[Quiksilver]

Hey guys, my lifting stats are on my journal, but I have a Q.

I deadlift 100KG, still gonna up to 140KG as I know I can do it.
Bench 90KG.
Squat 120KG
Overhead 50kg,90KG on machine.
Barbell row 70KG.

I still look skinny,but I think I'm relatively strong.When will the muscle start to pack on??:trouble:

Muscle gain while training for strength can be quite variable. Your numbers are not bad.

What are your goals?

Without knowing your goals, I'd say at your point to train 9 months of the year on strength, and 3 months of the year on hypertrophy.

A lot of people can get strong without getting big.

Is your scale weight changing?

Also, what is your program?

 

[DanZy]

Not a misquote, thats actually the topic of the thread so I just contextualized your absurd statement.

Creatine is effective for people who dont take steroids...I take neither because I cant stand the dehydration and steroids kill. Anyone who has taken a quality creatine knows it works in the short term but I find it to be unhealthy and not worth it.

Do you realize that these people have tens of thousands of dollars on the line and therefore read the scientific literature(or at least their coaches do) in order to look that much better? Its all on the margin. That is why you have such wide variety in workouts among bodybuilders, tailored to the latest scientific research and their own body's responses...and their workouts are designed by their coaches who as you admit DO read the research...

Many of the articles in Muscular D are written by PHd's and there are reviews of the latest scientific literature re: weightlifting, nutrition etc within. Fact.

It's not the topic of the thread, it's irrelevant. My statement was true.

Creatine is effective for everyone, steroid users and non-steroid users alike. Creatine does not cause dehydration, that has never been proven. Yes you should probably up you water intake a little because your daily requirements are slightly higher due to the added water weight. The effect really isn't that great though that one could suffer from dehydration. Creatine is safe, no study has shown it to cause anything negative.

I did not once say that their coaches read any studies etc. You really think each bodybuilder has scientifically tailored his workout to suit him? That's laughable and ultimately ridiculous. Once you're that size from steroid usage, anything you do isn't really going to have any real positive effect. I can almost guarantee you that most will do workouts comprising of exercises they enjoy with a few others thrown in to balance it out. With the substances they use, any decent stimulation will do the trick. Wide variety of workouts? That doesn't mean anything. They're doing the ones they like doing. The studies done are rarely on workouts or rep ranges, there's no money in that. Studies are done on supplements and other substances. Nutrition studies? Meh, most are funded by different food organisations and unions.

Yea sure they're written by PhDs, so what? The magazine is owned by the supplement companies and thus the supplement companies will only be shown in a positive light. Have you actually taken a proper look at any of the studies spoken about? Who funded it? What conditions were the testers subjected to? Were the results actually substantial or very minimal? Do other studies contradict this one? All these factors have to be correct for the study to be of any real value.
Nutrition studies? Meh, most are funded by different food organisations and unions. They're often biased. Studies that show repeated results are generally correct.
Supplement studies? Most are funded by supplement industry. Subjects are often made to fast for over 24 hours, forced to excersize and then use X product. There's always going to be a good response to that. These studies are severely biased.

If bodybuilders know so much, why do they continue doing and saying things that are down right wrong? Look at websites like Leangains and Body Recomposition, they'll help.

 

[Jack Wealthy]

Almost everything you said is totally wrong. Because I actually HAVE read the studies, I have to assume you are a paranoid because you clearly have not and yet assume all sorts of industry capture. You are somewhat well spoken for an 18 year old but you're wrong. Please read a Muscular Development and try again, its still clear you have not.

Where are you reading these studies from? Uncyclopedia or the 1960's?

First off, saying Muscular Development is the best source for fitness advice is as much a fallacy as writing a history paper based on the bible. Bias, factless faith based assumptions have no place being compared to logical science. Muscular Development just cites studies that prove what they're trying to prove. For example, NO supplements do not enhance gains in any way, but because pumps are obviously 'good' these magazines can peddle them. Pumps are irrelevant though and any literate person with access to Google and the common sense not to take things they see in an advert as fact can tell you that.

I recommend http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ for science. I don't care if you actually look into studies because they're dry and boring, but at least don't act like you have an educated opinion if you're not willing to educate.

 

[marmel75]

1) is broscience, 6) is excessive. Research showed no difference between 30g and 60g of whey in normal weightlifters. The only people benefiting from that much are bodybuilders and powerlifters, besides, skim milk has enough extra in it too.

Besides that good tips.

How is it "broscience" that if you eat carbs before a workout it blunts the release of GH? Numerous studies have shown this to be the case...go read some at ergo-log.com

 

[marmel75]

Where are you reading these studies from? Uncyclopedia or the 1960's?

First off, saying Muscular Development is the best source for fitness advice is as much a fallacy as writing a history paper based on the bible. Bias, factless faith based assumptions have no place being compared to logical science. Muscular Development just cites studies that prove what they're trying to prove. For example, NO supplements do not enhance gains in any way, but because pumps are obviously 'good' these magazines can peddle them. Pumps are irrelevant though and any literate person with access to Google and the common sense not to take things they see in an advert as fact can tell you that.

I recommend http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ for science. I don't care if you actually look into studies because they're dry and boring, but at least don't act like you have an educated opinion if you're not willing to educate.

I much prefer ergo-log.com because they actually explain the study and the results in plain English saving you from falling asleep while reading and a lot of time...