How long would you wait to propose to a girl?

[parisaga]

(First off, if you're anti-marriage, just don't bother. Thanks.)

How long would you wait to get married if you thought somebody was really marriage material?

Obviously you want to get to know somebody... but if you wait too long I believe it loses some "magic" and feels almost obligatory... I don't like to hear about friends where the girl starts "bugging" him to get married...

I know there's no "right answer", so I'm looking for your individual opinions/experiences/etc.

 

[dietzcoi]

You are doomed already, so go ahead and marry as quickly as you can.

"Marry in haste, repent at leisure" - Ancient Chinese Proverb

Dietzcoi

 

[Kaine]

You are doomed already, so go ahead and marry as quickly as you can.

Hehehe

The question is, what does marriage mean for you, and what does it mean for her?

Let's disregard all the contractual shennanigans that's associated with marriage for a second. What's the difference between offering a rock in a show box and telling her you're committed to her for the rest of her life vs traditional marriage?

If you've already decided to marry this girl, in terms of timing, it doesn't matter as long as you know for sure that she is receptive to it. As Dietzcoi so charmingly put it, it doesn't matter because you have the rest of your life to regret it or enjoy. So whether you wait 1minute, 1 year or 5, compared with the romantic notion of the "the rest of your life" it's pretty negligible if you ask me.

 

[Desdinova]

How long would you wait to propose to a girl?

If this is your first LTR, wait for your at least your second LTR. You're best off going into a marriage with previous LTR experience. Learn from your first one, and use what you learned in your following LTRs.

How long would you wait to get married if you thought somebody was really marriage material?

Make that decision BEFORE you get engaged. When couples become engaged, they can get lazy and feel that the engagement is enough "security" to wait a while before the marriage. Meanwhile, the relationship crumbles. Make marriage plans right after the engagement to prevent your laziness. It's during the wedding planning where you'll either completely make or break your decision to get married.

Also, I didn't propose. She did.

but if you wait too long I believe it loses some "magic" and feels almost obligatory

Before you even consider asking her, take a damn good look at her habits, her quirks, her goals, and her decisions in life. Try to see how her personality with either work or crash with yours in your marriage. If you don't see much working personality-wise, don't bother marrying her. Take as much time as you need to figure this one out. Make sure you do this before going ring shopping.

I don't like to hear about friends where the girl starts "bugging" him to get married.

This is when she focuses on the actual wedding more than spending a life with you. That's when you drop her. She needs to respect your thoughts and goals in life. If you're not ready, she should respect that.

Also, buy a cheap ring. Diamonds may be forever, but a lot of marriages aren't. No point in spending a ton of money on a ring she may end up taking to the pawn shop if things don't work out. Rings are only a symbol, they aren't what make the marriage. If she gets mad at you for buying a cheap ring, take it back to the store, ditch her, and find a woman who isn't a gold digger.

 

[parisaga]

Originally posted by Desdinova
If this is your first LTR, wait for your at least your second LTR. You're best off going into a marriage with previous LTR experience. Learn from your first one, and use what you learned in your following LTRs.

Excellent point. This is my second "real LTR". First one lasted 8 years. She was not marriage material. Dated a good number of other chicks, enough to feel pretty good about this one, especially personality-wise.

Also, buy a cheap ring. Diamonds may be forever, but a lot of marriages aren't. No point in spending a ton of money on a ring she may end up taking to the pawn shop if things don't work out. Rings are only a symbol, they aren't what make the marriage. If she gets mad at you for buying a cheap ring, take it back to the store, ditch her, and find a woman who isn't a gold digger.

Ahh the great cheap ring thing. I agree, but at the same time, you want to buy something that makes them feel special. What a tough balance. But if she was upset at the size I would definitely return both the ring and girl.

For the record, Desdinova (since you seem happily married), how long did you guys wait?

 

[Desdinova]

We got married after we were together for about 1 1/2 years. I must admit that I was a little worried that we didn't wait long enough, but she hasn't changed any since the wedding which is a good thing

One thing I had to realize is that life is full of risks. I thought to myself, "Well, if it doesn't work out, I can recover. I did it before." So I went for it.

You can either take the risk, or leave it. If you don't feel ready or you're still quite unsure about the woman, leave it be for a while longer.

 

[Player_Supreme]

How long each person waits is up to that individual. How long I would wait is irrelevant to you.

You need to make up YOUR own mind and not take the advice of a bunch of internet guys. Be a man and make your own decision if whether or not you want out of the game to settle down.

This is what men do. We decide things and create action.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
How long each person waits is up to that individual. How long I would wait is irrelevant to you.

You need to make up YOUR own mind and not take the advice of a bunch of internet guys. Be a man and make your own decision if whether or not you want out of the game to settle down.

This is what men do. We decide things and create action.

i totally agree with player supreme.
honestly, if you really want to be married, then what does it matter exactly how long you wait?
can you make it two years with out being with her everyday?
if so, maybe you really dont want to marry her...
would you rather do it fast and be with her everyday?

come on ask your selves these things...
find out where your money for a wedding budget is going to come from or just run off and go to the court house...

no one can tell you what your happy ever after will be ....

relax, decide something, and have fun and lots of love at which ever you decide to do.

 

[Bonhomme]

One rule

There is one rule that is as close to absolute as you can get, with only extreme exceptions (such as one of you has only a short time to live):

Wait until the flame dies down a bit, and you're entirely out of the infatuation phase of the relationship.

Beyond that, it's up to you.

 

[Ricky]

Bonhomme, excellent advise there that I will file away for future reference.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Read this thread first:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64931

If you can name one single advantage as a man you can have in marriage that you can't being single, marry her tomorrow.

I'm not anti-marriage I'm anti-bad marriage. Make sure that it is on your terms. I would suggest buying an engagement ring and keeping it in the box until she answers yes or no. NEVER show her the ring prior to the proposal. NEVER let a woman pick out her own ring. Any woman that insists on a particular ring is automatically unmarriageable. She's not interested in a life together, but is goal-fixated on marriage and her appearance of marriage.

Also, understand, right now is as good as it's going to get. There's not a man on planet earth who got more sex or better sex with his wife after marriage. Frequency declines, quality declines, if you like fvcking, marriage aint for you. You asked about 'prolonging the magic', the best way is not to marry her. I have what I consider to be a good marriage and even in this situation sex is twice a week, with a hummer or 2 on her period weeks. Before we we're married it was like 6 or 7 times a week and sometimes 2-3 times a day. This is not about getting old, it's about priorities shifting and preoccupation with mundane crap. Women like to play house, they like to play house better than having sex, simple as that.

Any woman that has ever uttered the words, "I don't understand why sex is so important for guys" or "Is sex all you ever think about?" is automatically unmarriageable. Move on to the next one, because this one isn't your wife.

I've been married for 8.5 years and happily so because I held out for what I wanted. I know myself well enough to understand that there'd be no way I could be faithful to a woman who wasn't concerned with maintaining her body. I also wanted someone who'd be a good mother for our child, and who still at least occasionally enjoyed sex. Ask yourself what YOU want out of a committment and don't express this to your potential mate. The first thing she'll do is attempt to embody your expectations to get your committed security. After which she'll quite happily go back to attempting to 'fix you'. Make your assessments privately and be critical of her. Ask yourself if this person is really deserving of what you have to offer. That might sound 'shallow', but it's better to be shallow now than suicidal in 10 years after you made a bad choice of mates.

Always bear in mind that this is someone you intend to be with until you are dead. No woman is above a bait & switch proposal in marriage. Say this to yourself, "I will be fvcking this woman for the rest of my life. If she puts on 50lbs., if she only wants to fvck once a month, if she ends up looking like her mother, she will become my only source of sex. If it gets so bad that I cheat on her and we divorce she is entitled to half of what I own and will own. If I have a child with this woman there will NEVER be a day that she will not be a part of my life." In fact those ought to be a man's marriage vows.

 

[dietzcoi]

Excellent, excellent advice Rollo

Unfortunately some of the youngsters on this site do not want to learn form others' fortunes or misfortunes.

The religious nuts on this site who want to wait until marriage for sex are in for a real rude surprise when they find out their wife is not into sex at all...

Too bad for them, I tried to help....

Dietzcoi

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

DIETZCOL: As odd as it sounds I do have respect for people who can abstain until marriage, but these people are much more rare than they say they are. The biggest problems being guys expecting to be appreciated for staying a virgin and women abstaining, but holding onto the entitlement/empowerment dynamic. It also encourages couples to marry too young and before the guy has established himself with his ambitions. I actually think holding out until marriage is a good thing as it prevents a lot of problems couples experience today, but it also causes other problems because of contemporary expectations of both men and women.

In that respect, if you are religious (not necessarily a bad thing) it would be that much more imperative for guys in particular to come to terms with understanding how to be a man and have good models to base their understanding on for positive masculinity. The greatest tragedy in the world is the virgin AFC who held out for marriage and married too young in order to have sex with another 'religious' woman who's swalowed the entitlement dynamic.

 

[parisaga]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi I'm not anti-marriage I'm anti-bad marriage. Make sure that it is on your terms. I would suggest buying an engagement ring and keeping it in the box until she answers yes or no. NEVER show her the ring prior to the proposal. NEVER let a woman pick out her own ring. Any woman that insists on a particular ring is automatically unmarriageable. She's not interested in a life together, but is goal-fixated on marriage and her appearance of marriage.[/B]

Awesome post Rollo, thanks. This part especially is great. I was actually thinking of something just like that, if and when the time comes.

It is odd to me that our current divorce legal structure actually makes it *easier* (and more beneficial) for a woman to leave after marrying, which kind of defeats the whole theoretical purpose of a lifetime bond...

Very enlightening discussion...

 

[dietzcoi]

Rollo

Finding a woman nowadays who has not swallowed the entitlement dynamic will be very difficult...

Dietzcoi

 

[Kaine]

I actually think holding out until marriage is a good thing as it prevents a lot of problems couples experience today, but it also causes other problems because of contemporary expectations of both men and women.

I fail to see how remaining a virgin until marriage can possibly be a good thing. Can you elaborate?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

To be honest with you I fail to see it too, but I do respect the decision if it's based on a real understanding understanding of why you're doing it.

Prior to the sexual revolution the 'rule' of no sex before marriage actually served many latent functions. It was at least intended to prevent a list of emotional and physical dillemas associated with casual sex. It served to weed out potential mates unwilling to share in parental investment responsibilities, it prevented disease, it made sexual relations in marriage more valuable to both parties. But as I said this was the intent, but historically, it's been more than a bit imperfect in it's execution even under the best circumstances.

I do respect people who cling to this ideal, however tenuous it may actually be for them, but yes, I do find it unrealistic. The whole operative being that the sexual impulse generally trumps any delusions of morality we may have. I do know a (religious) couple who actually did just this. They held out until they were 20 & 18 and got married and proceeded to have 3 kids accordingly. They are still married after 17 years and though I know they've had problems in the past they seem to have worked through them and at least present the appearance of a happy couple. While I find this respectable, I also know that it is very limiting in ones maturity. I both envy and pity the guy because he's never had to deal with the discovery process of understanding what it is he wants for himself. He didn't have to deal with a bad relationship in his past nor can say he's learned from the experience of going through one. On the other hand he's never known sex with anyone but his wife and she him. That may seem like a shame, but then again ignorance can be bliss if you don't know what you've missed.

It may not even be the holding out part that is the biggest problem, it's the modern expectations of marriage - especially in regards to a guy who's expected to keep his hog in his pants until marriage and all it entails; it tends to create a drive to get to marriage in order to satisfy his primary drive rather than thinking about achieving goals he can only strive for when childless and single. And this is the modern conflict, women who subscribe to no premarital sex naturally also tend to be the most selective and expect the most from their potential husband. This husband also has to have the same no premarital sex understanding she does (along with the required patience) in addition to having ambition enough to succeed as a good provider. As I said, respectable, but untenable.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

I tell this Rollo knows his stuff. You have opened my mind to things I hadn't thought about with such detail. I will need to go read all your posts.

 

[Kaine]

It's true ignorance can be bliss and would work great if we all lived in our own bubble worlds. Unfortunately we are surrounded by tempation, poisonous media and then the human nature of curiousity begins to eat at you. And it has all the time in the world to whittle away at your convictions, while you are sleeping with the same women day after day, when she becomes b1tchy and demanding, when she doesn't meet your expectations etc

Here, based on anecdotal stories I've heard, the people that tend to keep themselves until marriage tend to be of the religious variety. They also tend to marry very young and have little dating experience. One sad story I heard was religious couple that married 6 months, I hear that the main drive was so that ass could be tapped comfortably in the eyes of god.

Makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

 

[dietzcoi]

The real problem is that people always lie about their sex lives, and in any case there is no way to compare if a person's sex life is better or worse if they marry as a virgin or not. THere is just no way to measure this, even if they say they are sexually satisfied, how can they know this if they have nothing to compare it to?

All the sex surveys in the world are flawed as people rarely will tell the truth anyway.

However, common sense would seem to say that more experience will lead to better sex. Practice should make perfect.

I for one would not have been happy to wait until marriage for sex. THen again, my marriage fell apart. So who is to say?

Dietzcoi