How important are looks?

[MikeYikes122]

I'm home for Thanksgiving and met up with one of my old buddies who has put on quite a bit of weight. In high school and during his early 20s he was slender - about 5'10, 150 pounds. Now, he is built like a linebacker, except without the muscle. He is probably 5-10, 205 pounds now. He doesn't look fat, but he looks chubby in his face and a whole lot thicker. His man boobs are visible and his stomach sticks out a decent amount.

His confidence is taking a huge hit and I can visibly see his self image diminish as people we knew in high school approach him and make comments about his body. "Lay off the fast food", "Graduate school freshman 15?", etc. His parents and relatives are making fun of him, and I think he is getting a personal trainer for x-mas.

As funny as some of that is, it isn't very funny for him. And to make matters worse, he is horrible with women. In high school and the early parts of college he got girls with his looks alone. I had a female friend tell me today that she thought he was the best looking guy to graduate from our class but that he doesn't even rank in the top 20 anymore. Clearly, he can't rely on his looks as much anymore. He and I were out at a bar tonight with a couple of other friends and he was trying to hit on the bartender. Being present for the conversation was like listening to a car get hit by a train. It was painful and very tough to listen to and the end result was very bad for him. The bartender wasn't even very attractive.

Anyway, I've been trying to lift his spirits by explaining to him that looks aren't an absolute deal-breaker, but he doesn't seem to believe me. I've been trying to tell him that he needs to get some confidence and learn how to be less emotional/needy, but he isn't understanding. I don't think I'm explaining myself well enough. I'm having a real hard time articulating myself.

He also won't buy what I say because he seems to have this dumb notion that I'm a good looking guy and that I've never dealt with problems of his nature, which is pretty far from the truth. He seems to have a limited short term memory because I wasn't getting much a$$ in high school and the early parts of college. I really also think his view of me is indicative of a bigger problem for him: He thinks looks are what it's all about, and he sees them as the ultimate way for a guy to be successful with chicks. In turn, he assumes that because I get hot girls, I must be extremely attractive. This, however, is something I know not the be the case, with me in particular.

Short of showing him this site, which I think might kind of cross some boundaries, does anyone have any ideas or ways that I can help him? I was also wondering, are there any guys on here who consider themselves average in the looks department but still experience a lot of success with women? If so, what did you do to overcome that AFC notion that being good looking is a must for being successful with women? I think that is his biggest sticking point right now.

I half know the answers to these questions, but I'm having a really hard time leaving the abstract and finding examples for him so he buys into what I'm saying.

Also, from a personal standpoint he is driving me nuts. It is hard to go out with him when he is scaring off all the chicks. His game is actually anti-game and akin to a ****block.

 

[Last Man Standing]

To a degree it has nothing to do with looks - rather it is about attraction!!!

If it was solely about looks then 99% of the women would never be approached!!!

 

[Master Bates]

Just out of curiosity, what is so bad about his game? What was his conversation with the bartender like?

 

[[S]alvatore]

I was about to flame you for this thread but you're lucky it's not what I thought it was. Physical looks can be made up for if they aren't there, but I think the physical shape you are in is extremely important. On first meeting an overweight person what assumption do you make of the person? That they are lazy and live a sedentry lifestyle with little to no exercise &/Or have no self control (ie eating the wrong foods/overeating). It's not a good image to be portraying especially when dealing with the opposite sex, and I see this sh!t everyday being in the H&F industry.

 

[grinder]

The topic of looks has been so throughly excoriated that they were combined and any new ones were deleted by the mods. So here are links to those massive threads before this one gets closed as well.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24670&highlight=threads+combined

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=122289&highlight=threads+combined

 

[WaterTiger]

Looks aren't as important as CONFIDENCE. But since this buddy of yours has his confidence tied up in his apperance, it's very important to HIM.

He has no game because he never had to work at it before. His looks drew in the chickies. Now he can't do that and it's killing him. He gets depressed and eats more...a vicious circle.

 

[frivolousz21]

looks are 2 fold.

if your talking looks alone...a naturally cute face on a man goes 1000 times further then an ugly face on a great body.

however thats really has nothing to do with creating attraction. I could create attracted the same when I was chubby or fit...it was just easier fit.

and no that didnt relate directly to confidece...

see there is all so much going on just be confident and in shape and there u go!

 

[joekerr31]

i think looks are HUGELY important. i mean, im at the grocery store the other day and this cute blonde was checking me out - do you think shes checking me out because of my personality? she has no clue who i am, what i sound like, what my personality even is.

there so much talk on here about how confidence is more important than looks.

bullsh*t!

the reason people say this is because there are guys who aren't bad looking, but who shoot themselves in their foot cuz they lack confidence. then these guys learn to be confidence and become successful with women and everyone goes 'see, it wasn't about looks, it was about confidence.'

ummm, ya, because looks were never a problem to start with! but for someone who is 100 pounds overweight, i dont care how confident you are, you're options are goign to be 1% of what they could be if you werent overweight.

anyway, if a woman isn't physically attracted to start with you've got no chance, no matter how funny, smart, great you are.

 

[DJDamage]

Make the best whatever you got.

There are always ways to improve yourself overall. If you are not an attractive looking guy, you just got to try harder then other guys. If that means going to the gym and getting that hard rock body then that is what you got to do. If that means you got to buy better looking threads then that's what you got to do. If you are also shy then you got to try alot harder to throw yourself in situations where you will have alot of conversations and be more social with people and become a BETTER conversationalist then others.

The more work you are willing to put to get something the more you likely are to reap of the benefits. Your friend being fat can change all that by going to the gym and that will help. But he will still come up short on other occassions, if he doesn't change his mindset.

The Army motto is: BE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN BE and having looks alone will get you ahead a few places but lagging behind on others, unless you are willing to improve on all your other weaknesses, you will always rely on that one single strength to keep you afloat. Have multiple strengths to keep you going in life and you will do just fine.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

To a degree it has nothing to do with looks - rather it is about attraction!!!

If it was solely about looks then 99% of the women would never be approached!!!

Somebody should quote this.

Besides, it's most important to people who don't have any other qualities to present.

 

[paintballz]

confidence my man

 

[joekerr31]

looks won't keep a woman.
looks alone won't get a woman to go out with you.

but make no mistake about it, looks do matter. if a woman isn't minimally attracted in you to start with, you aren't getting off the launch pad.

 

[joekerr31]

There are just two people on this board that think this way?? where is everybody?

i honestly believe men 'think' looks don't matter because thats what women say over and over. thats what every female magazine will say. personality first, responsibility second, looks third.

but what women REALLY mean is that they will date / marry a man who is less attractive than another man if he is better on other factors such as intelligence, charm, humor, etc.

but they still have to be attracted to him!

a woman who is not attracted to what you look like is simply not going to engage in the behaviors that lead in to a relationship. i dont care how funny or charming you are.

 

[Drum&Bass]

I'm with Joey Kerr on dis one...you chubby, mofo's who fell off the ugly tree hit all the branches on the way down only to end up face first in the concrete better start hitten' that gym or making some Donald trump cash.

 

[STR8UP]

i honestly believe men 'think' looks don't matter because thats what women say over and over. thats what every female magazine will say. personality first, responsibility second, looks third.

but what women REALLY mean is that they will date / marry a man who is less attractive than another man if he is better on other factors such as intelligence, charm, humor, etc.

but they still have to be attracted to him!

a woman who is not attracted to what you look like is simply not going to engage in the behaviors that lead in to a relationship. i dont care how funny or charming you are.

Here's the deal.

We all have a minimum threshold as far as looks go.

Me, as a man, I will go to the bottom of that threshold for a woman who I will strictly HAVE SEX WITH. For someone to be considered for an LTR I have to be able to look at her on a long term basis and like what I see, or it's not gonna work. It would be impossible for me to sustain attraction to a woman who to me wasn't "beautiful". That doesn't mean that she has to be a "10", it just means that she has to captivate ME.

Women on the other hand also have a minimum threshold for looks, but there are a lot of other factors that will allow them to hold ATTRACTION at a lower level of physical beauty for a long term.

In other words, women look at more of the "whole package" when it comes to selecting a long term mate, whereas men will judge harshly based upon more narrow criteria.

 

[ketostix]

i think looks are HUGELY important. i mean, im at the grocery store the other day and this cute blonde was checking me out - do you think shes checking me out because of my personality? she has no clue who i am, what i sound like, what my personality even is.

there so much talk on here about how confidence is more important than looks.

bullsh*t!

the reason people say this is because there are guys who aren't bad looking, but who shoot themselves in their foot cuz they lack confidence. then these guys learn to be confidence and become successful with women and everyone goes 'see, it wasn't about looks, it was about confidence.'

ummm, ya, because looks were never a problem to start with! but for someone who is 100 pounds overweight, i dont care how confident you are, you're options are goign to be 1% of what they could be if you werent overweight.

anyway, if a woman isn't physically attracted to start with you've got no chance, no matter how funny, smart, great you are.

I totally agree with you. Anyone who has an aversion to the idea that looks matter is sticking their head in the sand. The way I see it is attraction is mostly visual for women and a smaller part is auditory. Humans are visual creatures.

A man needs looks plus personality, but how do you think the majority of your personality is expressed and conveyed. How do you think "confidence" is conveyed? It's conveyed mostly or percieved mostly visually by the observer (woman) more so than auditorily (word choice). Personality is a lot to do with appearance, face expressions and body language. While these things may not be exactly the same thing as your physical looks or where things like confidence are created, it's how personality and confidence is primarily conveyed and communicated to women.

I'm not saying you have to be a pretty boy with a great body,but you have to have a minimum of physical looks and an attractive apearance. Think of an actor on TV. Most of what they say is pretty basic but it's all in the delivery and their appearance.

 

[Answers]

I had alot of women checking me out but it never did me any good because I had no confidence and it showed and turned women off me. They look for other qualities like confidence too.

Here's the deal.

We all have a minimum threshold as far as looks go.

Me, as a man, I will go to the bottom of that threshold for a woman who I will strictly HAVE SEX WITH. For someone to be considered for an LTR I have to be able to look at her on a long term basis and like what I see, or it's not gonna work. It would be impossible for me to sustain attraction to a woman who to me wasn't "beautiful". That doesn't mean that she has to be a "10", it just means that she has to captivate ME.

Women on the other hand also have a minimum threshold for looks, but there are a lot of other factors that will allow them to hold ATTRACTION at a lower level of physical beauty for a long term.

In other words, women look at more of the "whole package" when it comes to selecting a long term mate, whereas men will judge harshly based upon more narrow criteria.

Str8up said it best! Looks are less important to women. I think some men think that women think like them but thats not the case.

 

[Answers]

I had alot of women checking me out but it never did me any good because I had no confidence and it showed and turned women off me. They look for other qualities like confidence too.

Here's the deal.

We all have a minimum threshold as far as looks go.

Me, as a man, I will go to the bottom of that threshold for a woman who I will strictly HAVE SEX WITH. For someone to be considered for an LTR I have to be able to look at her on a long term basis and like what I see, or it's not gonna work. It would be impossible for me to sustain attraction to a woman who to me wasn't "beautiful". That doesn't mean that she has to be a "10", it just means that she has to captivate ME.

Women on the other hand also have a minimum threshold for looks, but there are a lot of other factors that will allow them to hold ATTRACTION at a lower level of physical beauty for a long term.

In other words, women look at more of the "whole package" when it comes to selecting a long term mate, whereas men will judge harshly based upon more narrow criteria.

Str8up said it best! Looks are less important to women. I think some men think that women think like them but thats not the case.

 

[Latinoman]

I agree with JoeKerr...looks do matter.

If a person happens to have an ugly face...then he has to work very hard on other aspects of his looks (e.g. body or clothes or "bad boy" look, etc.).

Some women consider me a good looking man. And even when I am NOT in my best shape (like now)...I still attrack women, because I dress well and still have an attractive face. But when I'm in great shape...I attrack a LOT more women.

Even men that we might consider "ugly" such as the Benicio Del Toro and Billy Bob Thorton tend to attrack women...and it has to do with their looks.

Now...looks ALONE is not enough. That goes without saying.

 

[Phyzzle]

"Looks matter but they aren't everything, or are they?": the Mature Man 80 page megathread begins!!