How "game" screwed me up (FR)

[crowolf]

*you can skip to the FR part if you'd like, but here's the whole story*:

The story begins in the summer of 2024. I went to the mall to do some cold approaches. Got a few leads. The last of which was the number of a girl with whom I've only had a 3-5 min. conversation. But my energy was on point, and I think she hadn't been approached like that before. And I guess I was her type. Plus, as I learned later, I caught her at a very emotional moment, as that day she have "lost" her car in the parking lot of the mall.

In the next day or two, we exchanged a few messages back then but for some reason we didn't meet. Either I left her on "Seen", or she got sick, or something happened, I don't remember. Fast forward to the Christmas holidays of 2024. I add her on Snapchat. We exchange a few messages again. Then I try to get her out but she travelled to another city (we are born in the same city but we both live in another, so we go "home" during the holidays). I wish her happy holidays, and leave it at that.

Fast forward until recently (3+ months later). I'm back again in my hometown. And I send her some snapchats. She replies with selfies. I say that she looks cute. Then try to find out if we are in the same location. At this point our conversation is just about logistics - it's clear that we both want to go on a date. And next week I message her on Viber. Turns out we are back to the same city. And so we arrange the date for Sunday evening.

FR: Sunday evening is here. A bit rainy. I told her we are meeting at 6:10 at this bar/coffee place. It's in my region. The plan was to do stuff like: walk in the park, drink something at the bar, and see what's the mood like. And of course I plan my logistics accordingly, so there is the option to end up at my place. The date in the bar/coffee place was good. She sent me IOIs, asked questions, was very feminine and submissive, qualified to me, I felt very confident, told lots of DHV stories (not that It was planned but cool stuff have happened to me recently)..

After about an hour of talking on all kinds of subjects, we finished our glasses of wine. There was not a lot of touching there because we were siting in front of each other on 2 comfy couches. There was room for her to come next to me on the couch, and I thought about it at one point when I was about to show her some photos on my phone, but I decided not to push things like that yet. Then I told her that we can go on a walk, because I’ve had enough of sitting.

We leave the place, and I know that it's time for some physicality. I asked her how tall she is, and stood next to her to compare. Then as we proceed walking, I walked close to her (not in a needy way but rather in a seductive way - proximity), our faces are very close as we talked. I noticed her earrings, and how she did her hair, and said that I like it.

About 5 min. later I try to put her hand on my forearm, as I saw her walking with her hands in front of her. Then also touched the outside of her hand, as she said she was cold. She held her arm for a bit on my forearm but maybe she wasn’t fully ready for that. So I let her walk freely besides me. Not a big deal, I tried. Then another 5 min. later I told her: I don’t know about you, but I’m hungry. There are not many places that I like for eating outside, so I prefer some home-cooked spaghetti. It’s 10 min. away from here.

She was ok with the idea. But later it turned out that she didn’t understand the meaning of “home-cooked” spaghetti.. On the way I told stories, which pushed a lot of emotions. As we were passing through the supermarket next to my place to buy the spaghetti, she was chatting with her friends on the phone. And before I buy the ingredients, she says something like “I’m good, no need to count me in for the spaghetti”. I say ok. Not a big deal again. But I felt a bit uncomfortable because it was like I was luring her in with shady tactics. Which wasn’t really the case, as I mentioned we are going for “home-cooked spaghetti”. Isn’t it obvious?

Anyway, we leave the store. And we talk about this misunderstanding. Not in an arguing way but in a way to clarify stuff. Then I told her something about my place, and what's the story of me living there. But I noticed that she was still a bit uncomfortable. So I said: "you got a bit insulted, didn't you?". And she tells me how it's just that she is not okay for going at my place on the first date. Which is totally understandable, and probably I'm the dummy to even consider that with a "normal" girl.

Then I am about to show her the public transport that she needs in order to go home. At this point the vibe is a bit off but I try to fix that with some banter and clear communication. She said something like: “It’s just not ok for me to go to your place so early in the process. not that It could never happen.. not that It's something against you”. I say: “I understand and respect that. But know that I don’t really like to rush things up either, so my plan was just to go in and eat spaghetti. I tell you the truth.”. And I really was honest there - my idea wasn't to go up and have sex. I mean, she attracted me, but if sex happened, It would be so gradual and unrushed. And I would be ok if it didn't even happen. But the thing is - my last 2 successes came from this "strategy", and now I applied it where I shouldn't have done so..

Then we are in front of my place. She is staying in front of me, with some big smiley eyes. Maybe crossed legs, I don’t remember. It’s like she is hooked, and doesn't want to go yet. There is silence, sexual tension is building. We smile, laugh a bit. It's mostly her that breaks the tension. I reach out with my hand to pull her closer but this ends up in a hug, she turns sideways. This happened maybe 2 or 3 times. At one point I am thinking: "maybe she wants to come, but it's her shields that are stopping her.". So I tell her: "you live so far away, look, just come up for 5 min.". Now thinking about this, it was maybe stupid, because it just puts more pressure on the "wrong" decision.

Then I proceed to walk a bit until her tram stop. 10 meters later I stop. I'm tired already and want to go home, eat and rest. She stops with me. So I reach out again to pull her closer. This time I got the back of her head in my palm, and gently but in a slightly dominate way I pull her face to my face. Our foreheads touch, as we glance in each other's eyes. She tells me in an innocent way: "I don't kiss on the first date. who does that?". I tell her: "everyone, lol". The vibe is rather good, we smile, feel good (or so I assume, now looking back at it).

Then we wish each other good night, and we part ways. I forgot to tell her: "text me when u get home". The last messages in the chat are mine, from before we meet in the coffee. She hadn't texted me since. Snapchat is also last sent by me, days ago. I was very disappointed yesterday because of my stupid choice to try to get her home on the first date, as she is a decent girl. No red flags spotted yet. And now I am wondering if I really lost her totally. Or she is going to reach out someday, knowing that this is not a LTR thing. Or I should "chase" her. Maybe try to chat up like nothing happened. Or apologize sincerely. Idk, let's see..

So, yeah, that's how "game tactics" can screw you up sometimes. But it's probably better for her because I don't want to "corrupt" green flag girls. She might be looking for a "forever partner". And I am probably not her man. But in my mind, before the date I was thinking "look, girls love sex, and need sex.". And a few weeks ago I was very ambitious to achieve my goals of "scoring" this year, and having FBs.

 

[Vanderdonck]

I couldn't read this whole thing, it's too long. But I did see this:

*But it's probably better for her because I don't want to "corrupt" green flag girls.

You're assigning a narrative to this girl in your mind. If you didn't close, it's fine, but most girls do love sex and will get it from someone. There is no "corruption" if she's a willing adult.

 

[pipeman84]

Refreshing to read a FR about a girl who appears normal. How old is she?

On the way I told stories, which pushed a lot of emotions. As we were passing through the supermarket next to my place to buy the spaghetti, she was chatting with her friends on the phone.

That's weird, why is she wasting time on her phone instead of being in the moment with you?

So I tell her: "you live so far away, look, just come up for 5 min.". Now thinking about this, it was maybe stupid, because it just puts more pressure on the "wrong" decision.

Definitely stupid.

 

[crowolf]

She is 23 years old I think. And she didn't use her phone on the date, only when waiting for me to get back from the WC in the coffee, and then in the supermarket, as I was buying spaghetti. In the last case, she probably felt unsafe and consulted with her friends.

~

Vander, I am referring to a previous thread of mine, where I discussed "the dark side of being a playa". My thesis was that any new notch that a girl gets, is lowering her chances of being a long-term secure partner. And that we, as men, have to take some accountability to at least be honest in our intentions, and not ruin decent girls.

 

[New_Journey]

few messages

I add her on Snapchat. We exchange a few messages again.

I message her on Viber

Wy are you communicating with a chick throught all those apps? IMO it makes you needy and wanting to get her attention so bad.

There was not a lot of touching there because we were siting in front of each other on 2 comfy couches.

Why did you take her to fvcking boring date man? Take girls to do action dates, something fun, sitting in a couch is boring as fvck, men with no game that's what they do, just talking like an interview, boring $hit.

I decided not to push things like that yet

Men with confidence go for what they want wiouth fear, you still a boi afraid of rejection.

“I’m good, no need to count me in for the spaghetti”

This was expected. You've been with this girl for a couple of hours, and now you want her to be at your place. Are fvcking serious dude? What rapport have you build with this chick? You haven't even kissed her yet cause you have no balls and all the sudden you wanna her to be in your house for a " home cooked meal". That's what creepy stalkers do.

I felt a bit uncomfortable because it was like I was luring her in with shady tactics

You are, you wanna mask sex with " home-cooked spaghetti" Not good

And before I buy the ingredients

You needed to have all the ingredients in your house already, that's a big failure on your part, not good logistics.

Then I told her something about my place

I can see a big thirsty and desperation sign written all over your forehead, its game over at this point. You are desperate for sex.

Then I am about to show her the public transport that she needs in order to go home

You did good here, at this point you stopped giving a $hit about her and then this happened:

She said something like: “It’s just not ok for me to go to your place so early in the process. not that It could never happen.. not that It's something against you”

I say: “I understand and respect that. But know that I don’t really like to rush things up either, so my plan was just to go in and eat spaghetti. I tell you the truth.”. And I really was honest there - my idea wasn't to go up and have sex. I mean, she attracted me, but if sex happened, It would be so gradual and unrushed. And I would be ok if it didn't even happen. But the thing is - my last 2 successes came from this "strategy", and now I applied it where I shouldn't have done so..

This is a $hit test, she didn't have the need to tell you that. She wanted to fvck, but you didn't even kiss her, you were scared. Learn female sub communication.

You failed the $hit test. She basically told you:

"I wanna fvck you but you haven't even kiss me yet, you have no confidence, therefore let me tell you this $hit and see if you man up and do something about it"

You should've have gone for the kiss to shut her up when she was giving you all that " feel good explanation" You failed the $hit test.

She is staying in front of me, with some big smiley eyes. Maybe crossed legs, I don’t remember. It’s like she is hooked, and doesn't want to go yet. There is silence, sexual tension is building. We smile, laugh a bit. It's mostly her that breaks the tension. I reach out with my hand to pull her closer but this ends up in a hug, she turns sideways. This happened maybe 2 or 3 times. At one point I am thinking: "maybe she wants to come, but it's her shields that are stopping her."

OMFG Kiss the fvcking girl already. Do you want a fvcking big sign from her telling you. " Listen, I'm wet, are you gonna kiss me, carry me to your bed and fvck me or what?"

So I tell her: "you live so far away, look, just come up for 5 min."

LOL no confidence in making a move.

She tells me in an innocent way: "I don't kiss on the first date. who does that?"

Translation, I'm dying for you to kiss me.

Then we wish each other good night, and we part ways. I forgot to tell her: "text me when u get home". The last messages in the chat are mine, from before we meet in the coffee. She hadn't texted me since. Snapchat is also last sent by me, days ago. I was very disappointed yesterday because of my stupid choice to try to get her home on the first date, as she is a decent girl. No red flags spotted yet. And now I am wondering if I really lost her totally. Or she is going to reach out someday, knowing that this is not a LTR thing. Or I should "chase" her. Maybe try to chat up like nothing happened. Or apologize sincerely. Idk, let's see..

She put you in the puzzy category, learn from this.

So, yeah, that's how "game tactics"

What game tactics? You have no fcking game, zero, zip, nada, she was in a silver platter for you and you took a big $hit on it.

But it's probably better for her because I don't want to "corrupt" green flag girls. She might be looking for a "forever partner"

Copium to the maximum.

But in my mind, before the date I was thinking "look, girls love sex, and need sex.". And a few weeks ago I was very ambitious to achieve my goals of "scoring" this year, and having FBs.

Next time, be more bold.

 

[crowolf]

I don't agree. You wasn't there to read the energy of the girl and the dynamic between us. It's easy to say how you see it from the side, according to your imagination. But it makes no sense to me to cross her boundaries and to kiss her non-consensually, for example.

And this is exactly what I'm saying. To the contrary of your advice: If I didn't know about game and all that strategy and schemes, and etc... I would have probably done better here. Nothing beats the natural unfolding of a relationship. And not being in your head all the time.

And honestly, I prefer to have normal relationships, rather than to think all the time in terms of "here we do this, now I act like this, now that....". The "game" you describe is pure toxic sh1t that only works on toxic people. Not my thing I guess.

 

[New_Journey]

I don't agree. You wasn't there to read the energy of the girl and the dynamic between us. It's easy to say how you see it from the side, according to your imagination. But it makes no sense to me to cross her boundaries and to kiss her non-consensually, for example.

And this is exactly what I'm saying. To the contrary of your advice: If I didn't know about game and all that strategy and schemes, and etc... I would have probably done better here. Nothing beats the natural unfolding of a relationship. And not being in your head all the time.

And honestly, I prefer to have normal relationships, rather than to think all the time in terms of "here we do this, now I act like this, now that....". The "game" you describe is pure toxic sh1t that only works on toxic people. Not my thing I guess.

The only thing you know is buy affection/sex with material things and not through seduction like a true Don Juan aka "negotiating desire" You ego is wounded and its preventing you from learning. Leave you ego aside if you wanna get better. Good luck

 

[crowolf]

Again, dude - false assumptions, based only on your imagination.

I think somewhere around my first FRs here I talked about how I got a SDL with an attractive girl, when I had around 4$ in my bank account. Then we dated for a week or two, and I didn’t even spend a cent on her.

Besides that, I appreciate your feedback and maybe you have point about a few things. But not everything is that extreme, really.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Vander, I am referring to a previous thread of mine, where I discussed "the dark side of being a playa". My thesis was that any new notch that a girl gets, is lowering her chances of being a long-term secure partner. And that we, as men, have to take some accountability to at least be honest in our intentions, and not ruin decent girls.

I see, thanks for explaining. Well you could be right. I still think girls are going to get theirs one way or another though. I think "decent" means she is a nice person, not a virgin per se. But you have a point, and at the very least if you're going to be a notch for her, you should be one she remembers fondly.

But I agree that honesty is the best policy, there's no need to be sneaky or two faced to get laid. I see this all the time with "player" types on TV, but I have never lied to get laid and it's worked just fine for me.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

But it makes no sense to me to cross her boundaries and to kiss her non-consensually, for example.

Nonsense.

As the man, the onus is on you to take the lead; escalate.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I don't agree. You wasn't there to read the energy of the girl and the dynamic between us. It's easy to say how you see it from the side, according to your imagination. But it makes no sense to me to cross her boundaries and to kiss her non-consensually, for example.

@crowolf this^^ is exactly right.

One of the signs of emotional intelligence is to be aware of how women respond to you and act/respond accordingly.

You can't just pounce on every hot woman you encounter just because you're thirsty and wanna f*** them.

If you do, you end up coming off as an insensitive a$$ and as a woman myself that will NOT get you very far with a quality woman.

With a hoe or a woman with weak boundaries? Sure it might but this girl (as @pipeman84 noted) appears to be a "normal" woman (high quality who doesn't just jump into bed with every good looking Tom, D*ck or Harry).

You're fine, you'll know when to escalate when the timing is right for both of you.

Patience is key, @New_Journey didn't you post that yesterday on a different thread? That a true DJ exercises patience? In response to a post from @BackInTheGame78 ? Yeah you did.

Men who come off as too "thirsty" are a huge turnoff.

 

[New_Journey]

Patience is key

Yes, but this has nothing to do with patience, he had no balls to go for a kiss. Would a date a guy like that, who you spend time with him, you like him, but he has no balls to kiss you?

 

[BPH]

I'm gonna agree with @New_Journey , this entire FR is you being too passive @crowolf .

In the next day or two, we exchanged a few messages back then but for some reason we didn't meet. Either I left her on "Seen", or she got sick, or something happened, I don't remember.

Personally, I think this should've ended here. The fact that you randomly added her on Snapchat and then further messaged her on another app means you likely weren't getting the responses you wanted on the communication channels you DID have, so you created more. Her interest is nowhere near as high as yours is.

But yeah, you were way too passive and planned this out poorly.

You spent hours talking, walking, and grocery shopping with this girl - just pick 1 thing late at night with some alcohol involved. You should be how she ends her night, not how she starts it. If she declines then that should tell you all you need to know about her attraction level.

Inviting her over to your place when there has been zero sexual chemistry is also a massive stretch. Vibe out and kiss her early. If she refuses, again, you know where her attraction level is and can end the night early and not waste your time. Even if she's receptive, the fact that you have to take another detour to the grocery store to get your ingredients is another speed bump you're putting in your own way - there's nothing quite as sexy as cutting the tension with a trip to a brightly-lit store filled with minimum wage workers and kids crying in their shopping cart seats...

I also agree with @Vanderdonck - she wants sex, just not from you. You pursued her over the course of a summer leading into winter, across 3 different communication channels, and then when you finally had her in front of you you didn't even go for the kiss until she was about to leave you - on account of your recommendation to come to your place when there has been no prior chemistry at all. If you were her, is that the kinda guy you'd want to f***?

You would do well to be honest with yourself about your role in this interaction, rather than writing her off as a prude. The irony is she probably thinks that of you.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Yes, but this has nothing to do with patience, he had no balls to go for a kiss. Would a date a guy like that, who you spend time with him, you like him, but he has no balls to kiss you?

Actually yes I have. It was what that particular situation called for at the time.

Dating and life in general is not black and white.

It's nuanced with various shades of gray and it's important to learn to differentiate among those various shades.

As our OP said, you were not there....to read the "room" (as they say) and the energy generating from her and between them.

Had he pounced with no regard for such nuances and energy, he risked losing this chick and the opportunity to f*** her forever.

Which would be a shame since he really digs her and not just a chick to f***.

 

[BPH]

he risked losing this chick and the opportunity to f*** her forever.

You mean like how he did just that?

 

[Sega Genesis]

To add @New_Journey I refer you to your own post yesterday (or the day prior) where you posted you failed to escalate and you got harshly criticized for it.

You responded (paraphrasing) "Patience. A true DJ is patient."

Imo you did the right thing in that situation.

You felt the situation out and determined it wasn't the right time.

This situation is a bit different but essentially the same premise.

 

[Sega Genesis]

You mean like how he did just that?

It's never over until the fat lady sings...

 

[pipeman84]

You mean like how he did just that?

If he did lose her, it's because he was clumsy (that home cooked spaghetti thing) and tried to escalate too soon, not because he wasn't pushy enough. VV

This time I got the back of her head in my palm, and gently but in a slightly dominate way I pull her face to my face. Our foreheads touch, as we glance in each other's eyes. She tells me in an innocent way: "I don't kiss on the first date. who does that?". I tell her: "everyone, lol".

You and @New_Journey crack me up ... not all the girls out there are 35yrs old flight attendants with fake boobs or single moms, you know.

 

[BPH]

If he did lose her, it's because he was clumsy (that home cooked spaghetti thing) and tried to escalate too soon, not because he wasn't pushy enough. VV

He never had her.

He was just persistent enough that things finally lined for when she had free time, again, after pursuing her across 3 different channels. Also, his problem wasn't "escalating too soon" - he didn't escalate at all. There was no warm-up, no attraction, he just figured he spent enough time with her that going back to his place made logical sense.

You and @New_Journey crack me up ... not all the girls out there are 35yrs old flight attendants with fake boobs or single moms, you know.

Nice dig there. I've been with a decent number of women - I cannot remember a single time where I have not kissed a girl I was interested in on the first date. Sure, there were times where I didn't have SEX on the first date, but a kiss? And trust me, most of those girls weren't fake-ti**ed 35-year-old flight attendants either.

Let me tell you a much more common story:

I have a friend at my gym who couldn't hang out recently because he had a date scheduled with a girl. This "date" was top golf at like 3PM on Saturday and I believe he told me they weren't drinking either.

Next time I saw him I asked him how it went and he told me it went really well, but that she messaged him some time later that she thinks they should just be friends. So I asked him if he ever had sex with her. Nope. I asked him if he ever kissed her. Nope. Then I told him obviously she just wants to be friends - you took her out for a sober date during the daytime and didn't even kiss her - she might even think you're gay.

You'll lose a lot more women that way. And I'm not even advocating for some YOLO method like Mode One - just lead the interaction and have some balls.

 

[pipeman84]

Let me tell you a much more common story:

I have a friend at my gym who couldn't hang out recently because he had a date scheduled with a girl. This "date" was top golf at like 3PM on Saturday and I believe he told me they weren't drinking either.

Next time I saw him I asked him how it went and he told me it went really well, but that she messaged him some time later that she thinks they should just be friends. So I asked him if he ever had sex with her. Nope. I asked him if he ever kissed her. Nope. Then I told him obviously she just wants to be friends - you took her out for a sober date during the daytime and didn't even kiss her - she might even think you're gay.

Now are you really implying that if the girl had found him physically attractive and liked his energy/vibe she would've still sent that LJBF message? Just because the date was at 3PM, he didn't touch her and they were both sober?
This defies both logic and advice from OG dating gurus such as Doc Love. She wouldn't think he's gay but see him as a challenge and that would make her want to pursue him even more.