How do you get 8% BF without fat burners?

[Krassus]

I'd just like to know how the hell people get to 8% BF (and even lower) without using fat burners. No amount of cardio and dieting could get me down below 9.5%, which most people would be damn happy with, but i guess i'm just picky. I'm bulking now, so i'm up to like 11%, but i need to plan ahead for the cutting phase.

 

[Revlis]

Have you tried HIIT?

Basically weight train, do you cardio (HIIT) and fine tune your diet and you will drop the fat.

A little tip: Dairy products causes a layer of fat just beneath the skin. Bodybuilders cut out all dairy products before they have a contest for that extra definition.

 

[Melder]

do HIIT, it is awsome, it will help you melt away the fat whilst still maintaining your muscle and remember if you last for 15 min of interval training and you haven't done it recently then your not giving it enough intensity

 

[Bagheera]

Whats this "HIIT" I hear everyone talking about?

 

[The Business Man]

HIT = High Intensity Training. Go to www.bodybuilding.com and look it up in the search. You will find more than enough info.

I also agree, it's very effective. I have never used it when cutting, but I use it a lot when bulking and it almost looks like i'm losing fat in the process, although that's not very likely.


But to answer your question, Krassus:

First you have to learn alot about nutrition, glycemic index, etc. so you will know exactly what foods you should eat. (Sorry, this is like my second time coming to the fitness section, so I might be underestimating your knowledge here). Eating seven small meals a day helps a lot too.

The key is doing very high intensity cardio (20 minutes) two times daily, and distance running (4-9 miles, not longer than one hour though) once daily. This combined with HIT should get you down to 8% without fat burners. Of course, it might lead to overtraining too, or loss of muscle mass. If you do this and go a week or 2 withought losing fat, cut calories more.

I use fat burners so it doesn't take so long to do this, so I don't lose so much muscle. But I definately understand you not wanting to use them.

 

[The Business Man]

I have heard of something even better then HIT though, but you might not ought to use so much cardio with this.

Has anyone heard of kettlebells? I have read a lot about them lately, and next time I cut down I plan to buy some and try it out. I have heard of some of the results people get using them (strength, endurance, fat loss) and it seems amazing.

Anyway, for those who are curious:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler38.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kettlename.php

 

[MetalFortress]

They're talking about HIIT, not HIT. HIIT means 30 seconds all-out, 30 seconds slow (E.G. sprint 30 seconds, walk 30 seconds, repeat for 5-15 minutes). It means High Intensity Interval Training.

And yeah, kettlebells own for fat loss and strength-endurance. Rob Lawrence of DragonDoor can jerk two 72-lb kettlebells for 10 straight minutes

 

[Ice Cold]

IMHO you're doing a very stupid thing.

Unless you have a target for yourself "yes, I've been there, I've had 8% bodyfat" it's just not worth it.

Why you ask?

1) it's winter, nobody's gonna see any difference under 3 layers of clothing
2) even if it was summer, the difference between 8 and 12 percent is really small
3) you have much lower immunity when you have low bf%
4) you will lose tons and tons of muscle mass unless you're on prohormones
5) even the pros have single digit body fat for less than 3-4 days
6) looks don't matter


I'd suggest you just bulk in the winter

 

[Krassus]

1) it's winter, nobody's gonna see any difference under 3 layers of clothing

- so you fvck with clothing on? Not to mention, *i* will notice. After all, your OWN opinion of yourself is what REALLY matters

2) even if it was summer, the difference between 8 and 12 percent is really small

- actually no. I've seen photos demonstrating the difference between 8-12 and even 8-10 and its huge. Above 10, no one can even see your abs!

3) you have much lower immunity when you have low bf%

- you need a new source of fitness info

4) you will lose tons and tons of muscle mass unless you're on prohormones

- look above

5) even the pros have single digit body fat for less than 3-4 days

- look above again

6) looks don't matter

- now you're just asking for it

 

[Krassus]

Anyway, i figured out what the problem is. I wasn't doing enough cardio. I was only doing 2-3 times a week plus lifting 2-3 times and about 1800 cal / day. This time i'm gonna do everything by the book. 1600 cal, cardio 5 times, lifting 3 times. I've only got about 8-10lbs so lose, so it shouldn't take long.

 

[Ice Cold]

What r your stats?

 

[Krassus]

6'2 185# 13%. Should be around 178# 9% in <8 weeks. Not spectacular by any means, but i'm just getting started. Doesn't mean i don't know what i'm doing though

 

[elvis aint dead yet]

so your not going for mass at all,

Being your 6-2 and only 180 pounds.

The problem is, most pro bodybuilders, in the offseason, aren't at 5-8 percent body fat.

If your only at 180, you probably just need to cut out some carbs and fats in your diet, add a little more cardio and less strength training, and you'll see your abs in no time.

But don't go crazy. Some guys need to be at 5 percent to have those ripped chisel abs.

I know some guy at my gym who goes from 225 down to 190 every six months or so.

I dont see you having a problem going from 180-185 down to around 175.

But if you still dont like what you see and take it down to 160 or less, then that's crazy.

And thats where trouble starts.

You'll def lose muscle mass. You'd be surprised how much water is in our body.

And if you know any pro or amateur body builders, it's just not worth it to lose that much weight in a relative short period of time.

THis one guy gets irritated easily and agitated because he is eating no carbs, cutting back on everything and then the day before a show he takes some dietric pills to get rid of most of the water left in his body.

Yeah he looks ripped, but he's also on edge because he cut out everything he eats.

And he's just an amateur bb.

Take your time, continue to eat right, add some cardio and be satisfied when you get something decent, don't become one of those people who needs to cut out everything to have chiseled ripped abs.

For what?

If your not in contests or anything, whats the point of becoming a hungry irritated person?

YOu'd be surprised what cutting out carbs totaly will do to you after some time.

 

[NMMWCR]

8% is pretty damn low. I think I'd be institutionalized for an eating disorder if I got down to 8%. I can count ribs at 12% but then I'm a pencil necked hardgainer. I think people get a little too wrapped up in their number. Just find a range you look and feel good at. Bulk until you hit the top of that range, then cut until you hit the bottom of that range. Personally, I swing between 19% and 12% Higher I look too soft, lower I can cut steel with my protruding hip bones. Everything inbetween looks good and a little better each time I complete another bulk/cut cycle.

It's bulk, cut, couple weeks off, repeat. Be patient and know that you will look one hell of a lot better this time again next year.

 

[The Business Man]

Hey Krassus, this is cool: exactly 1 year ago I was 6'2 185 lbs and 12-13% BF. I was a distance runner at the time, but I was not very fast.

Now I am 6'2(still) 200+ lbs and 10-11% BF, still running some distance. Of course, I'm still not great by any means, but I'm improving. Trust me, if you stick with it and be patient you can make excellent changes. Let me know if you ever need extra motivation. It always seems to come in ups and downs.

Good luck

 

[The Business Man]

Oh, one more thing. When you get in the 1 digit fat zone, it becomes VERY important to drink at least 2 gallons of water daily. It seems like a lot, but just go to Wal-Mart and buy the biggest cup they sell. Get a gallon of water and see how many times you have to fill the cup to empty the gallon. If your cup is my size, it'll take about 6 fills (which is how many meals I eat daily); so I drink at least two glasses with each meal. You'll get used to it with time, and soon you will crave water.

 

[Krassus]

Elvis - body fat measurments are approximations at best. We were just discussing this earlier today. It looks like hydrostatic weighting, which is the gold standard, has a 2% margin of error. And calipers have a 2-3% margin of error from the gold standard, for a total of 4-5%. In other words, that guy who supposedly needs 5% to have chiseled abs may actually be 8-9% at the time and not even know it. This statistic assumes a 7-point measurment by a professional. If he did something like a 3-point measurment himself, the margin of error could be as high as 7%.

With that said, i'm not going by the BF%, as to call it inaccurate would be an understatement. I'm going by the mirror. Right now, my upper abs are showing a little, but the lower disappeared to a place unknown I'm pretty sure that i can drop 8-10lbs, 90%+ of it being fat. Sure i'll lose at least two weeks worth of muscle, but i'll probably do clean bulking afterwards, so i won't need another true cutting phase in a very long time, if ever. Small price to pay for looking great, no? On top of all that, i'll easily hit 200lbs+ @ <10%BF by Q4 2004, so the way i see it, i'm pretty much set.

Alright, as if i didn't go into enough detail already, here's some more. I'm not going keto, so carbs are here to stay. I did keto for several months before and it was great for fat loss, but performance at the gym suffered a bit. However, i had zero hunger or irritation, i felt GREAT the entire time, and if it wasn't for slight loss of strength at the gym, i'd say i felt far better than usual! This time i'm cutting out the starchy carbs only and keeping my daily carb intake (75% of daily simple carbs in 3-hr window after workout) to a total of 35%.

NMMWCR - same story here. If you can literally count all your ribs at 12-13%, you're NOT 12-13%, but most likely 10% or so. At least that's how low i'd need to get to be able to do that.

Business Man - i look forward to being 200lbs+ at <10%BF! Can't wait!

 

[wheelin&dealin]

If you are weight training and doing HIIT then...diet is what you should be tinkering with. Go to bodybuilding.com and study all the nutritional articles. Do refeeds once or twice a week to get your leptin levels up so that you can burn fat at an optimal level.

Here is a huge article base:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy10.htm


Here is a refeed link:

http://www.1fast400.com/?articleID=30&aCatID=&break=2

 

[Krassus]

Thanks bud, i know that most of that stuff off by heart