How can I have a desire to socialize?

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by PRMoon
socialiaztion shouldn't be an obsticle. It should be the key to sucess.

I disagree. This implies that the outcomes of your actions are dependant on the responses of others, to a great extent. No one's success should be determined by others. Socializing isn't the key to success. The key to success is pursuing your dreams to the fullest.

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
I disagree. This implies that the outcomes of your actions are dependant on the responses of others, to a great extent. No one's success should be determined by others. Socializing isn't the key to success. The key to success is pursuing your dreams to the fullest.

Hel-l ya. In my opinion, using friends and relying on other people to get girls is a crutch, and most guys are crippled in this way. The guys who are successful, in every aspect of the word, in the long run, are the ones who know how to be independent. Notice I didn't say antisocial, just independent. Being social helps you get girls, but you can get girls without a huge social network, and without even a single friend if you wanted to. I think, if anything, the key is to be able to talk to anyone, not just people within your social circle. If you think about it, most people don't do it. If you can do this, you'll be truly independent, and you will be successful.

 

[PRMoon]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
I disagree. This implies that the outcomes of your actions are dependant on the responses of others, to a great extent. No one's success should be determined by others. Socializing isn't the key to success. The key to success is pursuing your dreams to the fullest.

Outcomes of your actions ARE dependant on others. As a salesman and a buisness man, how you come across to the people you work with (yes working is socilization too, just in a different enviornment) has a HUGE impact on your sucess. Sure hard work and determination are key features as well, but good social decor and presentation either be a catalyst for your sucess or break you completely.

Knowing and understanding social ethics and standards are a necessity in anyfield of work, and if any one wants to suceed in anything, understanding and using that skill is essential.

 

[PRMoon]

Originally posted by pimpfromdayone
Hel-l ya. In my opinion, using friends and relying on other people to get girls is a crutch, and most guys are crippled in this way. The guys who are successful, in every aspect of the word, in the long run, are the ones who know how to be independent. Notice I didn't say antisocial, just independent. Being social helps you get girls, but you can get girls without a huge social network, and without even a single friend if you wanted to. I think, if anything, the key is to be able to talk to anyone, not just people within your social circle. If you think about it, most people don't do it. If you can do this, you'll be truly independent, and you will be successful.

This is a partially good attitude to have. Cruttching yourself on your own "social circle" or over taxing your wingmen can detrimental on your individual skills. Being able to go it lone wolf is a good skill to have. Yes both are true statements but you don't want to put too much of a spin or emphisis on either one of these because then you go to the other extreme where you don't understand how to work in a team and find yourself slumming around bars alone looking for girls to scam on (Yeah ive seen that only a thousand times around my town). But working in a pack with wing men can be a great asset when done correctly with the right kind of people. There's nothing wrong with working in a cooperative team effort, good team work is not a sign of weakness.

Yes being independant/ able to function on your own is important. If you can't perform well alone then joining a social circle solely for the purpose of social status would be a weak move. But if you've got proven ability and are able to hold your own solo, then you shouldn't feel any shame working with like minds and people with abilities along the same line as yours.

 

[pimpfromdayone]

I agree with you. The problem is, finding those people who you really desire to socialize with regularly.

Btw, I have never had a wingman, not because I don't want one (I really would love to have one), but because I can't find any men who are both interested in going places with me solely for the purpose of messing with women and halfway decent with them... and no, I'm not being picky by any means. All of my "friends" are either in relationships they have been in for years (COMPLETELY pus-sywhipped), stoners (obviously not all that interested in women), or too scared to hit on women with me. Of those who are interested, they are really bad at it, to the point where I am better off going solo. It sucks, but I get by. It's lonely at the top right?
Oh yeah, and I AM in college too, so you have to ask yourself, what kind of dumbasses are these guys? haha.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by PRMoon Outcomes of your actions ARE dependant on others. As a salesman and a buisness man, how you come across to the people you work with (yes working is socilization too, just in a different enviornment) has a HUGE impact on your sucess. Sure hard work and determination are key features as well, but good social decor and presentation either be a catalyst for your sucess or break you completely.

This is one of the reasons I dropped my business major. To be successful in certain fields in business you almost have to be dishonest about what you have to offer if you want to be competetive. If things were how they should be, people would buy a product because it was a good product, not because they have been told that it was a good product, or because they like the man selling it.

If you look closely at the definition of marketing, it is not simply the manner in which you try to sell your product, it is product-selling strategy where the idea is to focus on the consumer. This is opposite from the strategy I agree with -- focusing on the product. Instead of giving the consumer the best product at the best price, the irrationalities of the consumer only allow for one way to be a "successful" businessman -- letting them dictate how you run your business.

If I were ever to go into business I would never directly deal with a consumer. An architecht looking for a good air conditioner for an apartment building will not care about how you decorate your shop, he will care about how good your air conditioner is.

The idea that a brilliant mind can create something revolutionary, and then fail to sell it because they do not understand the irrationalities of the average consumer, that turns me completely off from business.

It all depends on how you define success. I don't define my success in terms of what other people decide to give me, or how much they like me.

 

[PRMoon]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
The idea that a brilliant mind can create something revolutionary, and then fail to sell it because they do not understand the irrationalities of the average consumer, that turns me completely off from business.

It all depends on how you define success. I don't define my success in terms of what other people decide to give me, or how much they like me.

If you're a brilliant mind and you create a superior product but have no idea how to tap a product market, then in your brillance you should realize that you need to meet some one who does and have them sell for you. That's pretty much why we have infrastructure in corporations. Without consumers there can be no buisness, having a superior product or otherwise. If you were to be the mind behind the monster, you'd still have to keep your house in order ie make sure you have the right people working for you.

Mastering socil skills is not just something you need to meet and charm people. With socilization comes the ability to read people and size them up. No man is and island to himself and if you can't regonize and differentiate people around you who will hurt or help you then you're never going to make it. Being successful as a sole entity is not impossible but it's a lot more improbable and risky.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by PRMoon
If you're a brilliant mind and you create a superior product but have no idea how to tap a product market, then in your brillance you should realize that you need to meet some one who does and have them sell for you. That's pretty much why we have infrastructure in corporations. Without consumers there can be no buisness, having a superior product or otherwise.

I agree to an extent. If your product is sitting on the shelf because you haven't made consumers aware of it, that is one thing.

But when selling your product comes down to something like this, which took a google search and two clicks to find, the whole idea of exchanging one thing of value for another is lost. It doesn't matter how good the product is, what matters is how you brainwash people into thinking they must buy your product regardless of its own integrity. Yes, I could be a "successful" businessman if I hire the right people to do this with my product, but that is not a path I am willing to follow, which is why I got out.

Again, it all depends on how you define success. Just making money doesn't justify success to me. In a system where I can't let the product simply speak for itself, I don't want to be what many people would call successful.

Originally posted by PRMoon
Mastering socil skills is not just something you need to meet and charm people. With socilization comes the ability to read people and size them up. No man is and island to himself and if you can't regonize and differentiate people around you who will hurt or help you then you're never going to make it. Being successful as a sole entity is not impossible but it's a lot more improbable and risky.

Being able to "size people up" does not depend on how many friends you have or how many parties you go to. I can think of a few people I know who are very good at reading people but have very small circles of friends.

Being successful as a sole entity is improbable how? In that you won't make as much money? I would like to think that by upholding my integrity and doing what I love to do, instead of appeasing the wants of men who mean nothing to me, I would like to think that that is the success I strive for.

 

[Jay-X]

i also love to learn about history, languages, psychology, sociology, anthropology and lots of other things...
however i have a great social life... not to brag, but i've been invited to 2 different parties and to a club (plus i have been asked to organize another one and to invite people, since i have lots of connections) during the 4 days of halloween break... and i have even skipped school these days, so i'll probably get some other invitations tomorrow...
and these parties are not the intellectual banquets, but american pie-like, with tons of drinking and smoking pot going on...

the trick is to be versatile... i know when to act like an idiot (unfortunately, i usually go overboard with this) and when to be a clever person... don't hate nerds, but befriend them, since they'll be useful to you when you want to engage in some deeper conversations, rather than "how much did you spend for that ganja?"

 

[Phoenix_of_the_ashes]

If you're a brilliant mind and you create a superior product but have no idea how to tap a product market, then in your brillance you should realize that you need to meet some one who does and have them sell for you. That's pretty much why we have infrastructure in corporations. Without consumers there can be no buisness, having a superior product or otherwise. If you were to be the mind behind the monster, you'd still have to keep your house in order ie make sure you have the right people working for you.

Thats right, a smart person accepts buisness for what it is, another science.

Anyway, I share the same situation as the post starter, I just dont really give a damn what other people have to say or think because its usually very trivial. I can give you a tip though.

There are people like you, you may be a rare type, but your not that special so always stay open to meeting other people. Be nice to everyone and stay somewhat "connected" to the other people even if they bore you.

This way you will find friends, it wont be a huge crowed but they will be people youll get along with.

Anyway, I have a sexy girlfriend and I like my life, why the **** do I need big amounts of people around me?

 

[Julian]

Originally posted by jive
Hey man, I just listened to this interview a few hours ago and I think you will really find it useful.

http://www.charismasciences.com/passport/podcasts/CSIpodcast2.mp3

great link

 

[Visceral]

This is a very good question, probably better than most of us understand.

Notice that he's asking about what he must do to want a social life, as opposed to what he must do to get one.

Probably all of the information on this site only discusses getting a social life, which as true as it might be, is wasted on those who don't want a social life or don't want one enough to suffer for it ... also known as "shy", "keyboard jockey", "AFC", etc.

All of the salesmen out there can appreciate that your customer has to want to buy from you, that as much good as your product might do them, they're not going to buy it if they don't want to. Similarly, a person won't do anything to make friends, get laid, or better their life unless they want to.

Hence the salesman's job to make the customer want to buy ... and hence the need for the forum to make its viewers want what it's offering, which it obviously fails to do.

I think that this is the fundamental problem that most here suffer from, not any lack of information or ability, but instead the lack of any desire to make use of them - to suffer for better.

I'm glad this is stickied, because I think it's the most important thread on this forum - the most important question anybody here has asked.

 

[Boner da Stoner]

I myself got a nice ego blast the other day, in a comment nonetheless.

"You, are not a shy guy, you only, act shy"

I've been going over this thread over and over in my head. I have the desire to socialize now, I did before, but I never USED it.

You cannot acquire the desire to socialize, there is no meaning behind DESIRE. Desire is something instilled, you cannot have it, or take it, or want it. But you can miss it, you can need it, and you can feel it.

People telling you won't help, you have to realize that you have potential, you have to stop making excuses, and above all you need to get your ass kicked. Never will anybody tell you to do something, unless they care for you. Nobody will bust down your door when your being a pathetic old man and tell you your being pathetic.

Society is not truly built about cooperation, it sure is helpful, cooperation, but it doesn't work as a society. You have to realize this, as well as the other extreme of doing it all on your own, if you do it all on your own, you WILL BECOME GREEDY, and as yoda knows greed is the path to the dark side.

My advice to you is:

Stop waiting for help, nobody will give it to you freely. stop shunning personality, where would we be without it?

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by Boner da Stoner
if you do it all on your own, you WILL BECOME GREEDY, and as yoda knows greed is the path to the dark side.

What's wrong with greedy? Why is acting in ones self interest "the path to the dark side?"

 

[CHOCOLATE(COLA)]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
What's wrong with greedy? Why is acting in ones self interest "the path to the dark side?"

Because it will cause bitterness and resentment.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by CHOCOLATE(COLA)
Because it will cause bitterness and resentment.

I would like to hear the logic behind this statement. Bitterness towards whom? The rest of the world? Why?

 

[PRMoon]

I just spent time with a very sucessful recruiter his exact statment about greed was "It's good to be greedy" Greed motivates you to work harder and become more sucessful. When you get a taste for a certian lifestyle and want more, that's the hunger and drive that presidents and CEO's look for when it comes to quality employees

Statments of "bitterness and resentment" have nothing to do with greed. Thats not the nature of the beast.

 

[Visceral]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
What's wrong with greedy? Why is acting in ones self interest "the path to the dark side?"

It has a tendency to turn into exploitation, not merely acting in one's self-interest but sacrificing that of others in order to do it.

Also, it's shortsighted to think that you are the only one who's going to benefit from the application of a predatory philosophy like that of Nietzsche or Rand. There's only room for one at the top, and ordinary people like you or me are just raw material to him.

Freedom from law and morality is great if you're the only one, but not if there are others who have the same lack of restraint. I say be very thankful for laws and morals, because they're probably the only things keeping you alive.

BTW, that CEO looking for a good and greedy employee only wants you for the money you're going to make him, and he'd feel very differently about your greed and ambition if you start eyeing his job.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by Visceral
It has a tendency to turn into exploitation, not merely acting in one's self-interest but sacrificing that of others in order to do it.

Not if you have ideals and stick to them. For the man of integrity, there will never be any tendency for anything to change. And who is to say you cannot believe in rational self interest and still respect the rights of others? A man can be exploited only as much as he offers himself for exploitation.

Originally posted by Visceral
Also, it's shortsighted to think that you are the only one who's going to benefit from the application of a predatory philosophy like that of Nietzsche or Rand. There's only room for one at the top, and ordinary people like you or me are just raw material to him.

Why is there only room for one at the top? Why do you think that capitalism has worked so well? Because when people are acting in their own interest, out of greed, they recognize other men of ability and they trade their services with each other, both profiting. The success of two individuals is not necessarily mutually exclusive, that is a very basic that can be traced all the way back to the earliest of societies. Also, "ordinary people" trade their services in the same way, except on a different scale. I would much rather work for the man who wants me for my actual value as "raw material" than for the man who thinks he should hire me because it would be a favor to me, regardless of my ability.

Originally posted by Visceral
Freedom from law and morality is great if you're the only one, but not if there are others who have the same lack of restraint. I say be very thankful for laws and morals, because they're probably the only things keeping you alive.

No one ever said that greed requires abandoning laws or morals. You mentioned Rand above, if you knew more about her you would know that one of the fundamental ideas of her philosophy is that morality is not relative, it is based on certain inherent rights. You can act based on greed with the corrolary that you must respect the rights of others.

Originally posted by Visceral
BTW, that CEO looking for a good and greedy employee only wants you for the money you're going to make him, and he'd feel very differently about your greed and ambition if you start eyeing his job.

You have still failed to point out why it should matter what the CEO wants you for. What matters is what he is giving you and what you are giving him.

 

[PRMoon]

well put Noc I was going to expand that last one but you beat me to it. There are tons and tons of reasons as to why greed has alwasy been concidered bad but the drive for sucess is and always has been fueled by greed. We've all been taught our entire lives that greed is a bad thing (I think it's in the bible listed as one of the 7 deadly sins) but this really isn't the case.

I'll give an example. My friends father came up from nothing. Family of seven dirt poor, barely graduated from college. Over the course of his life he got hungry for a better life so he started jumping at opportunities left and right, getting promoted ahead of other people more qualified then him for certian positions and he knew it, he was just to greedy to say no and step aside. Long story short he's been the president of like 4 banks in his lifetime and he helps out tons of charitys and his VERY large family doesn't have to worry about going hungry ever again. His hunger (read greed) changed his life and the lives of countless others for the better so to think greed always has to end with you being a bad person or some evil tyrant is pure speculation and shouldn't be taken to heart.