How bad is the Testosterone crisis in men? The average 22 year old today has lower T levels than the average 67 year old had in the 1960s

[BackInTheGame78]

Vitamin D deficiency is also a culprit; people who had vitamin D def. Also were more heavily impacted by Covid. Also you are far more likely to have a beer gut if your vdd.

Yeah this is pretty common. My Vit D levels were too high last time I got them checked so I had to back off on it...tested at 117. Will check again during winter and see how they are faring.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Already noticed the difference in 30 days, too bad in september I have to get back to northern Europe.

Hope supplements will help for the long winter.

10,000 IU during the winter is a good baseline dropping to 5000 IU in the summer as long as you are outdoors and get a reasonable amount of sun during the daytime.

Goal is to have optimal levels of between 65-80, not just be in "normal" levels of over 30 where many of the same issues will be seen.

 

[Stoic]

Also, being competitive and especially winning in competition is very good.

I boxed competitively in the past and i felt like an absolute monster then.

I play tennis now and while I imagine the competition and winning does increase T, I am sure it does not have the same impact as fighting does.

question, what are my options to get a good check on my T? Any other options aside from going to a doctor? Any home tests that give credible readings?

 

[Stoic]

Yeah this is pretty common. My Vit D levels were too high last time I got them checked so I had to back off on it...tested at 117. Will check again during winter and see how they are faring.

I thought it was very hard to have too much vitamin D. I remember reading the body can use and benefit from even extreme levels of vitamin d. thoughts?

what kind of test do you get ? Do you just ask for a blood test? I want to know my t levels and vitamin levels, etc.

 

[HaleyBaron]

These tests mean nothing. Most men around the ages of 40+ go and usually get T levels check, and it's mostly a recent thing to do. Most men don't get it tested. And these tests primarily come from metropolitan demographics, who are the least likely to live T boosting lifestyles.

Misleading subject. The truth is that it's likely just a bunch of people in those circles of non-fitness lifestyles and older people who also live in these areas. Doesn't paint the picture of the rest of the world. I guarantee if you checked the T levels of a Russian, you'd get a far different story.

Never liked these "T levels are down" click bait articles.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I thought it was very hard to have too much vitamin D. I remember reading the body can use and benefit from even extreme levels of vitamin d. thoughts?

what kind of test do you get ? Do you just ask for a blood test? I want to know my t levels and vitamin levels, etc.

Anything over 100 is considered too high and in rare cases can cause some heart arrhythmias and hypercalcemia, or too much calcium in the bloodstream.

Theoretically tho, there is no such thing as too much Vitamin D or Vitamin D toxicity, rather there is a lack of Vitamin A which balances out Vitamin D and prevents any of the issues super high doses can cause. They did a very long, multi year study in Brazil where they gave people 350,000 IUs of Vitamin D a day but also gave them the appropriate levels of Vitamin A to balance out those doses and there were no signs of any toxicity or issues with them.

So the issue when Vitamin D levels are high isn't the Vitamin D level per se, but rather the ratio of Vitamin D:Vitamin A.

The test is a simple blood test that is now pretty common on routine blood work that you would from a yearly physical in the US.

 

[Stoic]

Anything over 100 is considered too high and in rare cases can cause some heart arrhythmias and hypercalcemia, or too much calcium in the bloodstream.

Theoretically tho, there is no such thing as too much Vitamin D or Vitamin D toxicity, rather there is a lack of Vitamin A which balances out Vitamin D and prevents any of the issues super high doses can cause. They did a very long, multi year study in Brazil where they gave people 350,000 IUs of Vitamin D a day but also gave them the appropriate levels of Vitamin A to balance out those doses and there were no signs of any toxicity or issues with them.

So the issue when Vitamin D levels are high isn't the Vitamin D level per se, but rather the ratio of Vitamin D:Vitamin A.

The test is a simple blood test that is now pretty common on routine blood work that your doctor would request from a yearly physical in the US.

that’s good information. Thanks man.

 

[Obee1]

People don't understand just how bad it is and has gotten or that is shows no signs of slowing down, only picking up speed.

It is unfathomable to think thr average male in their 20s now has T levels of a 70 year old man from only 60 years ago.

Why? Plastics, pesticides, environmental toxins in the water supply, fast food/processed foods, lack of necessary nutrients in the average diet, lack of sleep and constant pressure to work more have all led to a perfect storm of factors that all work synergistically together to kill the male endocrine system.

One study that tracked T levels from the 1980s to 2000s showed the average T level declined by 1% a year over that time period.

If you don't know what your T levels are, get them checked.

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And if you find it's low don't assume or go running to the men's clinic to get put on TRT. Once you go there you're pretty much in it for life. First try making sure you get 7-9 hours of sleep. Lift weights. Eat meat. Stop carrying your cell phone in your pocket. Get sunlight everyday. Don't lounge on the couch with your laptop on your lap. Reduce your consumption of soy products. Rid your medicine cabinet of all toiletries containing parabens sulfates and phthalates. Drink filtered water. Stop drinking it out of plastic bottles though. When meal prepping and carrying, drinking water use glass or aluminum. Even the plastics that say BPA free. They replaced it with other chemicals that studies show are even more estrogenic than BPA. As far as the water goes, we are still exposed to birth control and other pharmaceuticals by the time it comes out of the tap. Now that I type this, its like running the gauntlet. Maybe it is easier to just take the pin.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

And if you find it's low don't assume or go running to the men's clinic to get put on TRT. Once you go there you're pretty much in it for life. First try making sure you get 7-9 hours of sleep. Lift weights. Eat meat. Stop carrying your cell phone in your pocket. Get sunlight everyday. Don't lounge on the couch with your laptop on your lap. Reduce your consumption of soy products. Rid your medicine cabinet of all toiletries containing parabens sulfates and phthalates. Drink filtered water. Stop drinking it out of plastic bottles though. When meal prepping and carrying, drinking water use glass or aluminum. Even the plastics that say BPA free. They replaced it with other chemicals that studies show are even more estrogenic than BPA. As far as the water goes, we are still exposed to birth control and other pharmaceuticals by the time it comes out of the tap. Now that I type this, its like running the gauntlet. Maybe it is easier to just take the pin.

I was already doing all that and my T levels were at 150 when I got them tested. Best decision I ever made after 35 was going on TRT.

 

[sangheilios]

They aren't going to have good data on this from that far back. Something else to consider is that the men that are having their T levels tested are probably going in to see a doctor because something feels off to them, meaning they may not represent the average adult man. It's not really all that normal to have your testosterone levels checked whenever you go in to see your doctor. I'd also be wary of those who are trying to market this issue to the public, I've noticed that a lot of them have ties to Male anti aging clinics, which are basically TRT and HGH pushing doctors, and other related things of that nature.

With that said, there are some super obvious answers to this. One, the average American man is overweight, many are even full blown obese. Having a high body fat percentage is not good for one's health. You can see pictures of people from the 50s and earlier and you won't see any fat people. There were tons of people back in the 50s and 60s that had crazy work schedules and many also smoked. People back then also had access to milk shakes, soda, french fries, burgers, hot dogs, etc.....the difference was these were not regular parts of their diets and more like a night out on the weekend or something like that.

None of this is rocket science, those that attempt to make it so are most likely trying to sell you something or have been sold something without knowing it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

They aren't going to have good data on this from that far back. Something else to consider is that the men that are having their T levels tested are probably going in to see a doctor because something feels off to them, meaning they may not represent the average adult man. It's not really all that normal to have your testosterone levels checked whenever you go in to see your doctor. I'd also be wary of those who are trying to market this issue to the public, I've noticed that a lot of them have ties to Male anti aging clinics, which are basically TRT and HGH pushing doctors, and other related things of that nature.

With that said, there are some super obvious answers to this. One, the average American man is overweight, many are even full blown obese. Having a high body fat percentage is not good for one's health. You can see pictures of people from the 50s and earlier and you won't see any fat people. There were tons of people back in the 50s and 60s that had crazy work schedules and many also smoked. People back then also had access to milk shakes, soda, french fries, burgers, hot dogs, etc.....the difference was these were not regular parts of their diets and more like a night out on the weekend or something like that.

None of this is rocket science, those that attempt to make it so are most likely trying to sell you something or have been sold something without knowing it.

Actually they likely do.

Androgen therapy began in the mid 1930s and lots of research and testing was going on in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s surrounding it.

They likely have plenty of data and long term studies done in the 1980s through 2000 showed the rate of decline was approximately 1% per year and it has been accelerating from 2003-2020 in follow up studies done on it. That data is very valid.

The cause is exactly what I stated in the original post. A conglomeration of many things ALL with detrimental effects on the male endocrine system that starts BEFORE birth now due to all of the environmental toxins, pollution and estrogenic compounds being passed to the fetus while still in the womb.

And on top of this the bigger issue at play is that Estrogen is the hormonal marker the body looks at to determine sex hormone levels. So when it sees elevated estrogen, the immediate reaction is to lower T production and increase SHBG production since the only way estrogen normally is elevated in males is via Testosterone aromatization into Estrogen. It has no way of knowing this is caused externally by other things, it just knows Estrogen is too high.

Sure, being overweight hurts T levels and causes a negative feedback loop but I could just as easily argue the destruction of the male endocrine system has LED to this issue and it would likely happen regardless of fast food intake. Probably not as steep of a decline but still declining nonetheless.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

Would be interesting to see to what chemical agents are exposed before and after birth all those individuals with gender disorders.

A further thing is that all disruptors all increase estrogens and not testosterone....not a single chemical apparently boost yout T.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Would be interesting to see to what chemical agents are exposed before and after birth all those individuals with gender disorders.

A further thing is that all disruptors all increase estrogens and not testosterone....not a single chemical apparently boost yout T.

Especially bad since Estrogen is also the hormonal marker the body looks at to determine your T levels.

 

[sangheilios]

Actually they likely do.

Androgen therapy began in the mid 1930s and lots of research and testing was going on in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s surrounding it.

They likely have plenty of data and long term studies done in the 1980s through 2000 showed the rate of decline was approximately 1% per year and it has been accelerating from 2003-2020 in follow up studies done on it. That data is very valid.

The cause is exactly what I stated in the original post. A conglomeration of many things ALL with detrimental effects on the male endocrine system that starts BEFORE birth now due to all of the environmental toxins, pollution and estrogenic compounds being passed to the fetus while still in the womb.

And on top of this the bigger issue at play is that Estrogen is the hormonal marker the body looks at to determine sex hormone levels. So when it sees elevated estrogen, the immediate reaction is to lower T production and increase SHBG production since the only way estrogen normally is elevated in males is via Testosterone aromatization into Estrogen. It has no way of knowing this is caused externally by other things, it just knows Estrogen is too high.

Sure, being overweight hurts T levels and causes a negative feedback loop but I could just as easily argue the destruction of the male endocrine system has LED to this issue and it would likely happen regardless of fast food intake. Probably not as steep of a decline but still declining nonetheless.

Ok, so are you blaming exposure to plastics and PFAs as the cause of this? The plain reality is that over the last several decades the average American has been getting increasingly more and more overweight. If you think plastics are to blame for this you really are missing the obvious trend, which is the dietary changes that have occurred over this time. The trends are that people are eating out more, especially fast foods, and are also eating diets high in processed foods. This basically means eating less fruits and vegetables, less healthy fats, etc. You can go to any wal mart and see what people have in their grocery cart. You'll also find that obesity and poor health are far more prevalent with poverty America than people who are not in this bracket, there are a multitude of reasons for this.

Your dairy and meat based foods are also often loaded with hormones btw. They used to use Trenbolone for beef cattle until the late 90s or somewhere around that time period. Dairy cattle are loaded with estrogens to keep them lactating for instance. Just something to consider.

 

[Reincarnated]

If the data in the original post is accurate, my suspicion is that this at least partially explains why a greater % of young men are struggling with women in general now, compared to the past.

It's an easy equation: lower test = lower overall attractiveness. The guys with "historically normal" or higher level have less competition than ever. Look through some photos of normal guys in their 20s pre-2000s and it's pretty strikingly clear the difference in masculinity.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Ok, so are you blaming exposure to plastics and PFAs as the cause of this? The plain reality is that over the last several decades the average American has been getting increasingly more and more overweight. If you think plastics are to blame for this you really are missing the obvious trend, which is the dietary changes that have occurred over this time. The trends are that people are eating out more, especially fast foods, and are also eating diets high in processed foods. This basically means eating less fruits and vegetables, less healthy fats, etc. You can go to any wal mart and see what people have in their grocery cart. You'll also find that obesity and poor health are far more prevalent with poverty America than people who are not in this bracket, there are a multitude of reasons for this.

Your dairy and meat based foods are also often loaded with hormones btw. They used to use Trenbolone for beef cattle until the late 90s or somewhere around that time period. Dairy cattle are loaded with estrogens to keep them lactating for instance. Just something to consider.

It started with the plastics and pesticides and other environmental toxins that are continuously building up in greater and greater amounts in both the food and water supply. That's a never ending source of problem that continues to only get worse every year.

But it's all of those things combined. Pretty much a perfect storm...fast food, environmental toxins, plastics, obesity, work related stressors, etc...

All of those feed into each other and result in more fat which in turn causes higher estrogen levels as fat is very estrogenic in and of itself.

 

[Obee1]

I was already doing all that and my T levels were at 150 when I got them tested. Best decision I ever made after 35 was going on TRT.

That is when it is appropriate. Too low is just as harmful as too high. Did you ball or combat sports? I've found head trauma and low T go hand in hand.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

That is when it is appropriate. Too low is just as harmful as too high. Did you ball or combat sports? I've found head trauma and low T go hand in hand.

Nope, none of that. I was a soccer player.

 

[AAAgent]

What are some ways we can naturally increase testosterone? I lift weights and travel by bicycle most of the time and it's common knowledge that being more physically active increases it. Diet wise I stay away from soy products, processed foods, and beef and instead almost always eat pure foods like dairy products and vegetables; and that's another thing that I've heard makes a difference. Are there any specific vitamins or other micronutrients that can help increase testosterone? I think I've heard something about vitamin d but I'm curious if there's any others

Competition.

Winning.

Fighting.


"Winning a competition is classically associated with a rise in social status and increase in testosterone levels, whereas losing a competition is associated with a drop in status and testosterone decrease."

"In particular, many vertebrates that win fights show increased testosterone levels, while losers exhibit not only reduced levels of testosterone but also elevated levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Changes in hormonal levels in turn modulate future aggressiveness."

Always strive to be better keeping yourself in a constant state of competition and achieving objectives. Train in martial arts and apply them in practice, such as sparring. Lastly, win. Winning in competition, achieving your objectives consistently not only creates success but this perceived and actualized perception of being more masculine. It's what most actually define as success and notably so.

 

[Stoic]

I was already doing all that and my T levels were at 150 when I got them tested. Best decision I ever made after 35 was going on TRT.

I have lots of questions on TRT and maybe this should be in a new thread later. If you don’t mind, I was curious…

1. How long did it take to feel results from the TRT?
2. What do you pay for something like this?
3. What are the downsides you’ve noticed on TRT?