Hope for my marriage?

[SW15]

I'm not saying that's good or bad, necessarily. Just that it's a very long time. Nobody should expect a relationship to last longer than that.

Ok, that's fair. 27 years is a long time. In terms of expectations, I also think it is fair to expect the shelf life of goodness for a monogamous romantic relationship to be 5 years. Men who have relationships of 5 years or less who don't waste time in decaying relationships are the ones doing longer term monogamous relationships the best way.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I also think it is fair to expect the shelf life of goodness for a monogamous romantic relationship to be 5 years.

Who said this?

 

[SW15]

I also think it is fair to expect the shelf life of goodness for a monogamous romantic relationship to be 5 years.

Who said this?

The idea that 5 years is a fair expectation for the shelf life of goodness of a romantic relationship is my original idea. It is based on a number of different ideas and observation of people I know. I realize that observing people I know is not entirely valid because my social sphere is not a representative sample.

Leading relationship anthropologist Helen Fisher believes that serial monogamy is the new normal. Women's preferred mating model is serial monogamy according to sources with world views as disparate as feminist oriented PhD Wednesday Martin and Manosphere writer Caleb Jones (Blackdragon). According to Wednesday Martin, women get bored with monogamous relationships over time, which is why they seek out affairs and divorce. Caleb Jones (Blackdragon) was exposed by PUA Nick Krauser as a cuck. The fact that Caleb Jones is a cuck discredits some of his ideas, but other ideas are still good, including the two links below.

How To Deal With New Relationship Energy (NRE) - Alpha Male 2.0

-By Caleb Jones NRE, or New Relationship Energy, is the strongest positive emotion a human being can feel. Here’s the definition from the glossary: NRE – New Relationship Energy. The temporary, short-lasting, overwhelming feeling of joy one experiences when first dating a new person, usually...

alphamale20.com

Divorce Statistics - Alpha Male 2.0

I often point to the current high divorce rates as evidence of human beings not being creatures capable of, or even desirous of, absolute long-term monogamy, vastly preferring short-term monogamy and/or temporary marriages instead. Usually I refer to either the “standard” divorce rate most often...

alphamale20.com

Women get bored with monogamous relationships over time, often leading to affairs and divorces. The woman often is the one who files for divorce, though she may not be the one who has the affair, though men and women are starting to have affairs at similar rates. I believe in non-marital situations that women have more affairs than men.

The New Relationship Energy (NRE) concept that Blackdragon mentions is a lot of how I came up with my 5 year shelf of goodness timeline. Initial NRE can be 1-2 years, then the next NRE like spike can occur when a couple moves in together or gets married, and then the next NRE like spike occurs when a baby is born. If the median length of a marriage that fails is 7 years, the majority of people still get married, and a typical timeline from first meeting to the wedding day is 2-3 years, that means the typical marriage that fails is a relationship with a total time duration of 10 years. 10 years would be enough time for initial NRE, newlywed NRE, 1-2 baby NRE, and then boredom and decay. In thinking about that 10 year timeline, that's maybe 5 good years, 2-3 mediocre years, and 2 bad years before someone decides to quit. Sounds about right.

 

[bat soup]

Ok, that's fair. 27 years is a long time. In terms of expectations, I also think it is fair to expect the shelf life of goodness for a monogamous romantic relationship to be 5 years. Men who have relationships of 5 years or less who don't waste time in decaying relationships are the ones doing longer term monogamous relationships the best way.

I think it depends. For some people, 2 weeks is too long. Some people end up spending 50 years together.

What I do think is that if you're unhappy in a relationship, it's time to go.

 

[Kotaix]

Roommate: Someone you live with and don't have sex with. Especially when she's so unattractive you can't get it up to her.

For all that you care for her, what's the point of trying to make it work? You can be friends with her without involving sex or living with her. Are you just addicted to her and falling back on safety?

You can either resign yourself to no sex, or you can leave her and start looking for sex. Either sh!t or get off the pot.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

I've been separated since September and have barely gotten my feet wet in the dating scene other than a fling I had with a woman at work that turned out to be a con artist. Anyway I've made all the classic AFC mistakes and I'll admit it. My wife and I have been together since high school, so it's been almost 27 years. We were best friends, and of course I put her on a pedestal and became a doormat, causing her to lose respect for me and stop desiring me like she did initially. We haven't had sex in probably 3 years now, partly because she stopped bugging me about it and I just wasn't interested anymore. For one, she gained a ton of weight, and for another when we did she would just lie there and expect me to do all the work, then freak out when I couldn't get it up because, well, why the hell would I be turned on at that point? The thing is, I still deeply love her and enjoy being with her. We still hang out but I've kind of distanced myself a little as I'm not sure if there is any hope for us. Sex isn't the most important thing to me like some people but I do want a healthy sex life in the relationship. Do you guys see any way that could still happen with this woman?

Any kids?

-Augustus-

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I’ve been surprised by so much in life. Don’t 100% exclude the possibility of reconciliation. She needs to put in the effort as well.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The idea that 5 years is a fair expectation for the shelf life of goodness of a romantic relationship is my original idea. It is based on a number of different ideas and observation of people I know. I realize that observing people I know is not entirely valid because my social sphere is not a representative sample.

Leading relationship anthropologist Helen Fisher believes that serial monogamy is the new normal. Women's preferred mating model is serial monogamy according to sources with world views as disparate as feminist oriented PhD Wednesday Martin and Manosphere writer Caleb Jones (Blackdragon). According to Wednesday Martin, women get bored with monogamous relationships over time, which is why they seek out affairs and divorce. Caleb Jones (Blackdragon) was exposed by PUA Nick Krauser as a cuck. The fact that Caleb Jones is a cuck discredits some of his ideas, but other ideas are still good, including the two links below.

How To Deal With New Relationship Energy (NRE) - Alpha Male 2.0

-By Caleb Jones NRE, or New Relationship Energy, is the strongest positive emotion a human being can feel. Here’s the definition from the glossary: NRE – New Relationship Energy. The temporary, short-lasting, overwhelming feeling of joy one experiences when first dating a new person, usually...

alphamale20.com

Divorce Statistics - Alpha Male 2.0

I often point to the current high divorce rates as evidence of human beings not being creatures capable of, or even desirous of, absolute long-term monogamy, vastly preferring short-term monogamy and/or temporary marriages instead. Usually I refer to either the “standard” divorce rate most often...

alphamale20.com

Women get bored with monogamous relationships over time, often leading to affairs and divorces. The woman often is the one who files for divorce, though she may not be the one who has the affair, though men and women are starting to have affairs at similar rates. I believe in non-marital situations that women have more affairs than men.

The New Relationship Energy (NRE) concept that Blackdragon mentions is a lot of how I came up with my 5 year shelf of goodness timeline. Initial NRE can be 1-2 years, then the next NRE like spike can occur when a couple moves in together or gets married, and then the next NRE like spike occurs when a baby is born. If the median length of a marriage that fails is 7 years, the majority of people still get married, and a typical timeline from first meeting to the wedding day is 2-3 years, that means the typical marriage that fails is a relationship with a total time duration of 10 years. 10 years would be enough time for initial NRE, newlywed NRE, 1-2 baby NRE, and then boredom and decay. In thinking about that 10 year timeline, that's maybe 5 good years, 2-3 mediocre years, and 2 bad years before someone decides to quit. Sounds about right.

Fair points. Thanks for the explanation.

I’ve been surprised by so much in life. Don’t 100% exclude the possibility of reconciliation. She needs to put in the effort as well.

This is true as well. The dating market sucks.

 

[Barrister]

I've been separated since September and have barely gotten my feet wet in the dating scene other than a fling I had with a woman at work that turned out to be a con artist. Anyway I've made all the classic AFC mistakes and I'll admit it. My wife and I have been together since high school, so it's been almost 27 years. We were best friends, and of course I put her on a pedestal and became a doormat, causing her to lose respect for me and stop desiring me like she did initially. We haven't had sex in probably 3 years now, partly because she stopped bugging me about it and I just wasn't interested anymore. For one, she gained a ton of weight, and for another when we did she would just lie there and expect me to do all the work, then freak out when I couldn't get it up because, well, why the hell would I be turned on at that point? The thing is, I still deeply love her and enjoy being with her. We still hang out but I've kind of distanced myself a little as I'm not sure if there is any hope for us. Sex isn't the most important thing to me like some people but I do want a healthy sex life in the relationship. Do you guys see any way that could still happen with this woman?

If you haven't had sex in 3 years it is over. There is no coming back from that.

And I know this may sound harsh, but you shouldn't want to salvage this. You can do way better. Any woman that lets herself go has basically given up on the relationship. When you couldn't get it up because of how nasty she has become that should have been a message to her to get her ass in shape. Instead, she decided to lay around another three years?

Time to exit, brother. I am also divorced and can tell you that while it was a difficult process, it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Once you get past the initial BS you are in for one of the most fun times of your life.

 

[Epimanes]

My 25yr relationship ended too 3yrs ago...

I wont go into details here. You can find my thread. I too was on MMSL forum..... I also did counseling... I also participated in the marriage builders forum....


DM if ya like. Read my thread if ya like.

My new motto now is ... my woman is to make my D!ck hard not my life.

Epi

 

[Ricky]

I've been struggling for the past year and a half after having what was definitely an above average happier than normal marriage.
You can reconcile. Make sure you want it. I won't give advice beyond that as i'm still working on things myself

 

[TonyJ78]

To respond to some of your comments -

Yes, we do have kids. Our oldest has moved out already and the younger 2 are 16 and 17, still living at home. I still see my kids and spend time with my wife at least twice a week, usually more, but I'm renting a room from my friend at the moment until I figure out a more permanent living situation.

So I understand what some of you are saying about how she has basically given up on the intimacy aspect. I can't put that all on her, though. We got together in high school and each had small indiscretions throughout the relationship, though neither one of us ever actually slept with anyone else.

Sex is important but so are the other aspects of the relationship, and I'd argue more so. As I said I love her deeply and miss being there. So my initial question was more referring to if you thought the sex in the relationship could be revived.

 

[DontThinkTwice]

To respond to some of your comments -

Yes, we do have kids. Our oldest has moved out already and the younger 2 are 16 and 17, still living at home. I still see my kids and spend time with my wife at least twice a week, usually more, but I'm renting a room from my friend at the moment until I figure out a more permanent living situation.

So I understand what some of you are saying about how she has basically given up on the intimacy aspect. I can't put that all on her, though. We got together in high school and each had small indiscretions throughout the relationship, though neither one of us ever actually slept with anyone else.

Sex is important but so are the other aspects of the relationship, and I'd argue more so. As I said I love her deeply and miss being there. So my initial question was more referring to if you thought the sex in the relationship could be revived.

Reread the first chapter of The Rational Male. You have oneitis. Rollo also often says "sex is the glue that holds relationships together." Sex is MORE important than the other aspects of your relationship. If there is no sex, she is a friend - not a wife.

She is probably a good person and maybe you can maintain a platonical friendship for the benefit of your children. But if you aren't sexually attracted to her, then this isn't a relationship. If you want to try at this, you need to set boundaries about what is acceptable and not acceptable. She needs to lose weight and change her behavior during sex.

You can either accept the current state of things as they are, or require changes to improve your marriage. Those are your options. She may leave, but no matter what, she will respect you more.

 

[TonyJ78]

Reread the first chapter of The Rational Male. You have oneitis. Rollo also often says "sex is the glue that holds relationships together." Sex is MORE important than the other aspects of your relationship. If there is no sex, she is a friend - not a wife.

She is probably a good person and maybe you can maintain a platonical friendship for the benefit of your children. But if you aren't sexually attracted to her, then this isn't a relationship. If you want to try at this, you need to set boundaries about what is acceptable and not acceptable. She needs to lose weight and change her behavior during sex.

You can either accept the current state of things as they are, or require changes to improve your marriage. Those are your options. She may leave, but no matter what, she will respect you more.

I get what you're saying. However to me personally there are a lot of things more important than sex. It's always been that way for me. Sex is great but it isn't something I have to have all the time like some guys. This may be blasphemy on these forums but I wouldn't consider every word of Rational Male as gospel. I thought it had a lot of value and was very eye-opening but I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. I still see value in the notion of 'growing old together' if it's with someone you genuinely care for and enjoy being with. And that doesn't have to include sex. I always figured I would get tired of it by the time I'm in my 60s or 70s anyway so it would no longer even be a factor. However, I'm still a pretty good-looking guy who has a lot of life left in me and would like to enjoy more of the physical aspects of a relationship before I no longer have the desire to.

You're right though - if I want things to change I'm going to have to make it happen.

 

[manfrombelow]

I've been separated since September and have barely gotten my feet wet in the dating scene other than a fling I had with a woman at work that turned out to be a con artist. Anyway I've made all the classic AFC mistakes and I'll admit it. My wife and I have been together since high school, so it's been almost 27 years. We were best friends, and of course I put her on a pedestal and became a doormat, causing her to lose respect for me and stop desiring me like she did initially. We haven't had sex in probably 3 years now, partly because she stopped bugging me about it and I just wasn't interested anymore. For one, she gained a ton of weight, and for another when we did she would just lie there and expect me to do all the work, then freak out when I couldn't get it up because, well, why the hell would I be turned on at that point? The thing is, I still deeply love her and enjoy being with her. We still hang out but I've kind of distanced myself a little as I'm not sure if there is any hope for us. Sex isn't the most important thing to me like some people but I do want a healthy sex life in the relationship. Do you guys see any way that could still happen with this woman?

Buddy, she lost sexual & romantic interests in you. You guys haven't had sex for THREE FVCKING YEARS and she gained "a ton of weight".

This is no longer a romantic relationship, at least not the way you want anymore.

For whatever reasons (that only you know, not us), your relationship has expired. This is a fact you must accept if you want to make yourself happy. You have to be happy first before you can make anyone else happy.