Honesty & Integrity

[hopeful loner]

I'm just wondering about this.

I was taking a test in a class the other day and I saw two other students cheating. Now, they are breaking the rules and doing something immoral. Should I mind my own business or should I tell or them?

I told this to my brother and he immediately said that I should mind my own business. But for some reason I can't let this go--I mean, I don't really want to hurt these students in any way, but I'm thinking about the principles involved.

Being part of civilized society means obeying the laws and rules, and making sure your fellow men do the same. If you everyone tweaked the rules to their advantage and looked the other way when they saw others doing the same, then quite frankly we'd be living in a jungle.

I don't believe that people are basically honest and good.

I believe that, if given the oppurtunity and assurance that there would be no consequences, most people would steal and break the rules.

It is only the fear of getting caught that keeps us in check.

Civilized societies have managed to find a way to instill that fear in people where as uncivilized countries haven't.

So it may today start out with cheating on a test--but tommorow, it could possibly be stealing company funds.

Should I tell on them or should I mind my own business?

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Um dude, its just a test. They're not planning a terrorist activity or trying to start a revolution. Leave them be.

I believe that, if given the oppurtunity and assurance that there would be no consequences, most people would steal and break the rules.

Well duh! That's how humanity has survived for so long. You don't think animals are the same? Lions don't walk up to their prey and say "Hey buddy, I'm gonna eat you now, but I'm a pinko commie so I wanna be fair, so you can have a headstart."

 

[Michele l'Arcangelo]

Lions don't walk up to their prey and say "Hey buddy, I'm gonna eat you now, but I'm a pinko commie so I wanna be fair, so you can have a headstart."

Golden

 

[djbr]

I was taking a test in a class the other day and I saw two other students cheating. Now, they are breaking the rules and doing something immoral. Should I mind my own business or should I tell or them?

It's not your problem.

I told this to my brother and he immediately said that I should mind my own business. But for some reason I can't let this go--I mean, I don't really want to hurt these students in any way, but I'm thinking about the principles involved.

You do not know their principles.

Being part of civilized society means obeying the laws and rules, and making sure your fellow men do the same. If you everyone tweaked the rules to their advantage and looked the other way when they saw others doing the same, then quite frankly we'd be living in a jungle.

Sorry, but that's what people try to do. The only thing is that some people can and some can not.

I may be cinical cause my country is basically a mess when it comes to laws, rules and sh1t, but nevertheless is great to see nature in action.

I don't believe that people are basically honest and good.

They are not.

I believe that, if given the oppurtunity and assurance that there would be no consequences, most people would steal and break the rules.

Damn right.

It is only the fear of getting caught that keeps us in check.

Hell yes.

Civilized societies have managed to find a way to instill that fear in people where as uncivilized countries haven't.

Yes, but still people in civilized society make their way. Only they have to be more apt to do so.

So it may today start out with cheating on a test--but tommorow, it could possibly be stealing company funds.

Or not.

Should I tell on them or should I mind my own business?

If you tell, they will try to find a way to involve you. Still, you'll have some people who definitely will try to make a mess on your life.

It's not great too see this, but remember people will not always get away with it. Rely on your abilities. Maybe they get a grade higher than yours, but who learned more?

Take care of your own life.

 

[ExploringOne]

Dude, if you're in college and you've never cheated, congrats, you've got no life.

You will find out soon enough in life that it's not what you know, but rather who you know that matters.

As far as these student go, your brother is right. Mind your own freaking business. Let it go.

"Hopeful Loner" what a fitting name.

The world is a jungle. "Civilized" countries too. You must have led a very sheltered life if you don't realize this.

 

[hopeful loner]

Dude, if you're in college and you've never cheated, congrats, you've got no life.

No, I have cheated before when I was in high school, but that was before I was aware of having morals and the importance of obeying the rules. I do have a life thank you.

You will find out soon enough in life that it's not what you know, but rather who you know that matters.

Regardless, I don't see why this should make it okay to bend the rules as you like it.

As far as these student go, your brother is right. Mind your own freaking business. Let it go.

I have no ill will towards them, but they have cheated and broken the rules. Am I not ethically obligated to report this to the professor? Ironically, we spent a chapter in our class discussing the importance of ethics.

The world is a jungle. "Civilized" countries too. You must have led a very sheltered life if you don't realize this.

Why should that make it okay for people not to obey the rules? We have made our society an orderly jungle in which people compete against each other as fairly as possible. I am aware that people cheat all the time and break the rules, but why does this have to mean that we have to tolerate these sort of things when we witness it?

Would you want your children to think that cheating is okay?

 

[hopeful loner]

It's not your problem.

Perhaps by being witness to their disregard for the rules of our institution, it has become my problem.

You do not know their principles.

I saw them cheat. That is a clear indication of their current principles.

Sorry, but that's what people try to do. The only thing is that some people can and some can not.

Regardless of whether or not cheating is something people try to do, it is still something that people should not tolerate and something that should not go unpunished.

If you tell, they will try to find a way to involve you. Still, you'll have some people who definitely will try to make a mess on your life.

I'm not concerned about their trying to "get back at me." They don't know who I am, nor are they aware that I saw them cheating.

 

[ExploringOne]

Would you want your children to think that cheating is okay?

YES.

Assuming I ever have kids (why I would want to... I don't know) I would want them to understand that it's a mean world out there. You do whatever is needed to get ahead. The only line I don't want these hypothetical kids crossing is muder.

The world is far from black and white. Civility is nothing but a thin veil for fools to look at.

There is no "ordely" competition in life.

In this case do whatever you want. You asked for advice, so far every single reponse has been to let it go. Enogh time wasted on this post already.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'm just wondering about this.

I was taking a test in a class the other day and I saw two other students cheating. Now, they are breaking the rules and doing something immoral. Should I mind my own business or should I tell or them?

I told this to my brother and he immediately said that I should mind my own business. But for some reason I can't let this go--I mean, I don't really want to hurt these students in any way, but I'm thinking about the principles involved.

Being part of civilized society means obeying the laws and rules, and making sure your fellow men do the same. If you everyone tweaked the rules to their advantage and looked the other way when they saw others doing the same, then quite frankly we'd be living in a jungle.

I don't believe that people are basically honest and good.

I believe that, if given the oppurtunity and assurance that there would be no consequences, most people would steal and break the rules.

It is only the fear of getting caught that keeps us in check.

Civilized societies have managed to find a way to instill that fear in people where as uncivilized countries haven't.

So it may today start out with cheating on a test--but tommorow, it could possibly be stealing company funds.

Should I tell on them or should I mind my own business?

Is this about them following the rules or possibly about you feeling cheated because you actually studied for the test?

 

[hopeful loner]

Is this about them following the rules or possibly about you feeling cheated because you actually studied for the test?

It was a very easy test, no joke. Multiple choice--made by the people who wrote the textbook.

Here's how the cheating happened: One student was providing another with the answers.

 

[hopeful loner]

YES.

So what do you think the consequences would be if everybody behaved accordingly?

Assuming I ever have kids (why I would want to... I don't know) I would want them to understand that it's a mean world out there. You do whatever is needed to get ahead. The only line I don't want these hypothetical kids crossing is muder.

So you would want your kids to think that stealing, cheating, and lying are fine and dandy? You would want your kids to have no higher regard for truth and law? You would want your kids to have no integrity?

The world is far from black and white.

The world might be far from black and white, but I don't see why this needs to preclude having integrity and a high regard for truth and fairness.

Civility is nothing but a thin veil for fools to look at.

What?

In this case do whatever you want. You asked for advice, so far every single reponse has been to let it go. Enogh time wasted on this post already.

I'm not really just asking for advice, and I'm most likely not going tell on these students. But I seriously thought about it. I'm just trying to provoke a discussion for the most part...

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Just do what you need to do to get ahead in life. Morals and ethics are all what you perceive them to be. Snitching won't get you anything really. If they don't know the answers, and rely on a friend, so be it. Whatever they need to get ahead in life.

 

[hopeful loner]

Just do what you need to do to get ahead in life.

Cheat, steal, lie...?

Snitching won't get you anything really.

I didn't expect to. Maybe though it'll be give me the satisfaction that two cheaters will think twice about the next time they try cheat.

 

[The Forms]

What the hell kind of college do you go to when the teacher is too lazy to make their own tests? They just used to one from the textbook makers?

One chapter on ethics. That's kind of funny. When I was getting my philosophy degree I took lots and lots of courses on ethics. I never really got high and mighty about it. Especially after one chapter. Plenty of ethical systems would be totally fine with cheating on some stupid test that doesn't really matter anyway.

I'd just let it go. They're not hurting you. It looks like you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.

No, I have cheated before when I was in high school, but that was before I was aware of having morals and the importance of obeying the rules. I do have a life thank you.

I'd like to call bull**** here. I doubt you weren't aware of morals and the importance of obeying rules. You just ignored those values when it was to your benefit at the time. And that's cool. That's all these guys are doing.

 

[Rata Blanca]

Ok look closely to your two options:

Tell the teacher: They get some sort of punishment which leads to:
a) They get mad at you but forget it and move on.
b) They get mad at you and and confront,insult, and/or attack you.

Don't tell the teacher: Nothing Happens.


I know it's hard but we are not in medieval times, in these days people sell their honor to the best buyer.

 

[djbr]

Perhaps by being witness to their disregard for the rules of our institution, it has become my problem.

Which you can do nothing about, at least not without consequences to yourself. Far more damaging to you than being quiet.

I saw them cheat. That is a clear indication of their current principles.

Which are different than yours.

Regardless of whether or not cheating is something people try to do, it is still something that people should not tolerate and something that should not go unpunished.

Do it.

I'm not concerned about their trying to "get back at me." They don't know who I am, nor are they aware that I saw them cheating.

Again, do it.

If youi know what you want to do, why ask for advice?

Is this about them following the rules or possibly about you feeling cheated because you actually studied for the test?

My words exactly.

If you were cleaning the classroom and saw them cheathing, you would have nothing to do with it. I hardly think you would give a damn then.

Morals and ethics are not mandatory. People have it if they wish. Also, it does not mean it's the same as yours, and they have nothing to do with your expectations of what is right or wrong.

I've seen people cheating on tests and I am sure I will see it again. I failed classes that people cheated like hell and I did not. They passed, I failed. (this all before this site, I did not have ambition, but that is another story)

Right? Wrong?

...who cares? They did something I did not have the balls to. And for some reason (morals? ethics?), not the desire too. Fact is, they are going to graduate this year and I still have a looong way to go. Right? Wrong?

...who cares? I know I do not. I take care of my stuff.

 

[Centaurion]

It's a dog eat dog world out there.

I would snitch in a second if I saw someone cheating during a test. But that's not because I believe in morals and have integrity. It's purely out of self-preservation. If you are in a highly competitive program, i.e. law/engineering etc, those people sitting next to you in class WILL become your competition once you graduate and enter the job market.

So by telling the teacher that they cheated potentially eliminates future competition.

 

[jonwon]

Being part of civilized society means obeying the laws and rules, and making sure your fellow men do the same. If you everyone tweaked the rules to their advantage and looked the other way when they saw others doing the same, then quite frankly we'd be living in a jungle.
QUOTE]

we'd be living in a jungle?
And you really think this un-jungle is just not another jungle with a few rules?

Look man so what they cheated i have never cheated on a test, but!
Put it this way, there are winners and loosers in this world, winners dont always toe the line, sometimes the break the RULES to make sure they have an advantage where they recognize a shortfall.

If you want to grass on them grass on them, but i think your blowing the situation out way out of context! In a jungle indeed, just because some guy had the BALLS to cheat at a risk to make sure HIS future is a little better in THIS jungle.

 

[spider_007]

honesty and integrity, only applyes to your own life, and how you live it....let everybody else make their own choices. If they feel like cheeting, well, i'll come back on them when they acutally have to figure things out in reall life.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

It was a very easy test, no joke. Multiple choice--made by the people who wrote the textbook...

Doesn't matter. Was it more about the rules or you feeling slighted?