Hitting girls with a kiss close when they aren't ready...

[Macaframalama]

Okay maybe NEVER WILL is a bit strong. However it will be a bit more difficult to win her interest if she rejects you on the first date with something so simple as kiss, I imagine. Would like to hear your thoughts

It's a man's job to escalate and push boundaries. It's a woman's job to put up resistance and make the man work for it, lest she be seen as a slut. Social programming for you. Some women have rules of not allowing things to escalate past a certain boundary. If you are firing on all cylinders, sometimes you can get them to drop their guard and sometimes, when you are firing on all cylinders you can't get them to drop their guard. A woman rejecting your attempts at a kiss means absolutely jack chit, so long as your interaction is escalating in other areas AND she is investing and initiating.

 

[Mazer]

I've done it, but always lead with a kiss on the cheek first to feel her out. If she seems appreciative or blushes, then you know that she'd be receptive. Typically use this only on evening dates, trying to kiss in day time of a packed lounge/cafe is always awkward.

You kiss your mom or aunt on the cheek not dates. Dont do that again. Shows no balls. Trust me I used to do that ****.

 

[guru1000]

Many men calibrate to the social rules we call "social game." Very few have the social game calibrate to them.

Whenever you are operating outside of the social norm and solely within your own volition (assuming your volition and the norm do not coincide), you are sending a powerful implicit message that YOU operate boldly, shamelessly, and unapolegetically within your desire and do not care of the consequence of their or general social approval. This type of vibe/energy is magnetically attractive to women.

When you first meet a woman, and not enough comfort is built, and you go for the kiss, and she rejects you, you smile. You genuinely smile because you know that she desires to kiss you but under false pretenses, she must pretend not to be that easy as she is a slave to the social norm of the ASD (Anti-Slut Defense) or even better she is attempting to show she has value and cannot be taken that easy. But YOU, are no slave to social constructs. You operate solely as you desire to irrespective of how society or she will perceive, label, or judge you.

The second reason you are smiling is because you know that although she cannot kiss you because she is a social slave, that she WILL kiss you (eventually), and so both you and her are in this social dance of kiss attempt, reject, kiss attempt, reject, kiss attempt, accept. It's almost as if you are playing this board game--YOUR board game--where the rules are fixed in your favor, but, nonetheless, you must go through the motions knowing very well the end result. (<==Btw this is the frame you should always carry)

The kiss-reject dynamic is powerful because if you go for the kiss, she rejects, you smile, and then go for the kiss again shortly thereafter as if the previous rejection was non-existent outside the scope of your awareness, you are implicitly demonstrating that the way you and she will operate will be solely within your frame, and if she continues to deny your frame, she won't be in it as your reality is the only reality that you are conscious of (and so if she denies your reality, she will eventually lose her place and your awareness of her in it). This dynamic is extremely powerful as you are setting the precedence for future relations as you are implicitly training her to understand that compliance to your frame is a natural precedent to your continued investments of time and attention into her.

Remember, she will forget that guy who never tested and pushed her compliance. She will never forget the guy who forges her compliance into his frame, especially as early as the first date. (This is not to be confused with forcing anything upon a girl against her will.)

 

[wifehunter]

 

[Spidah]

Or you dont want to be her gay friend.

You only become her gay friend if she isn't attracted to you.

Being afraid of that shows a scarcity mindset. When you have abundance you don't worry about this shyt. You just do your thing and the bitches who don't get with your program get dropped.

 

[Spidah]

No way!
I read somewhere and it resonated as a completely true statement - always go in for a kiss somewhere on the first date. Always. If she rejects you it means she didn’t find you sexually attractive and probably never will, saying most behaviours and circumstances staying the same. Something inside her just doesn’t ‘feel it’. And it’s better to know on the first date than later that she’s ‘not feeling it’.
If a woman finds you sexually attractive, she will definitely accept the kiss fairly quickly in to it.

Scarcity mindset. You shouldn't be worried about losing a bytch in the first place.

Withholding validation from women and making them wonder how interested you are makes you more attractive to them. I only kiss or have sex on the first date if the woman is showing very strong attraction. Otherwise I hold back to keep her ego in check and make her want me more. It works.

 

[Dash Riprock]

A woman rejecting your attempts at a kiss means absolutely jack chit, so long as your interaction is escalating in other areas AND she is investing and initiating.

Going for a kiss too early on the first date is a HUGE mistake.

Men have a tendency to project their feelings --> BAD. Make her work for it. Keep her guessing whether you're into her or not. Women love mystery and they are attracted to men whose feeling are unclear (proven fact). The golden formula is to get her laughing, tease her a bit, touch her appropriately (arm, shoulder, small of back when leaving). Wash, rinse, repeat. Keep doing it. But DON'T kiss too early. That also shows neediness, and that you're over-eager, IMO. Would James Bond do that? F*uck no. He's make them prove themselves and THEN bang them. Show her you're out for a good time, not a big romantic endeavor. Then, at the end of the night, DO go in for a kiss (if you want to, 50% of all women don't pass my test on the first date). Start kind of slow then go deeper, hold her firmly, and go for it. They go nuts. Then, cut the date. I used to be a rock/metal singer. We'd end with Lightning Strikes Again by Dokken. They always wanted more, but we left. Do the same.

If she turns her head, gives you the cheek, a hug, whatever. No worries. In many cases it can mean SHE IS into you, and wants to make you work for it a bit. NO woman wants to be known as a slut. That's as bad a straight guy being known as a p*ussy. As @Macaframalama says in his post, if all other signs are there, continue to see her. Women like this can actually be really good LTR or gf material based on A LOT of dates and gf's I've had in my experience.

 

[Murk]

Seems like you are more concerned about how she will perceive you, rather than how you will perceive her.

My last LTR rejected my kiss 3x on the first date, with the first attempt at 10 minutes.

The LTR previous to her rejected my kiss 5x on the first date, with the first attempt at 15 minutes.

So you tell me now ... why did I purposefully seek a kiss so soon with the high likelihood of rejection as I knew with certainty not enough comfort had yet been built?

I agree with everyone saying go for the kiss ASAP (with the correct rapport/kino before hand). I will always try to kiss mid date, because regardless if I see this girl as a one night stand, plate or LTR - I escalate to sex on every first date. If they say no it's not happening, fine, but I'm going to do my job regardless.

Girl on Friday also rejected my kiss 3x - the morning after I asked why she did that and she said "to mess with you". It's all a fvcking game and you can't take this sh!t (or yourself) too seriously. Just take a leap of faith and watch the results come in.

 

[Macaframalama]

too early

This is relative and I don't tend to use unit of time as a measurement. (Minutes, hours, days, beggining/mid/end of date, etc).

Women love mystery and they are attracted to men whose feeling are unclear (proven fact).

I use suggestive comments, remarks, questions and body language for, both this and this... Below.

Make her work for it. Keep her guessing whether you're into her or not.

If she replies with an off comment, that doesn't align with my principles, she might get a hmm... With a raised eyebrow. On the other hand, if she says something agreeable, she might get rewarded with a pulling comment, remark or body language, which could also be a HMMM... With a raised eyebrow. I prefer to expand, beyond the spectrum of physical communication to communication on a subconscious level as well. More tools for me to operate within, rather than something as simple as say, withholding a kiss. Also, she will feel as if she is entering my frame gladly and of free will.

The golden formula is to get her laughing, tease her a bit, touch her appropriately (arm, shoulder, small of back when leaving).

Much of the comfort and rapport has been built, has been escelated and barriers been broken down via text and call, depending on wether I met her online or grabbed her number on the fly, while running errands. If met at a party or social circle, obviously this has to be done in real time. I'll use my date last Friday as an example. When, I drove up to her house and she met me at the door, I greeted her with a hug, slapped her a$$ as she walked away and made the remark that it bounces like a basketball too. Our texting interaction had been highly sexual and she commented, that her a$$ was lke the size of two basketballs, so I was able to push the boundaries of physical touching so quickly and get away with it, because the groundwork had been laid through texting over several days.

That also shows neediness, and that you're over-eager, IMO. Would

My confidence and willingness to leave are unshakable ATM and there is nothing about my body language and demeanor, that would suggest otherwise, rather confirm it. This allows me to be a little more aggressive in my pursuits and trumps having to use more overt tactics, like withholding the kiss. It also depends on my goals ATM and what I see out of her in regards to my approach. If I see something I like and that she may be a little more worthy of just the lay, I usually employ a little more patience. Its situational, depending on the woman and circumstances.

NO woman wants to be known as a slut.

I have a saying... "Water the tree, that bears your fruit", that I like to live by. One would be hard pressed to find many women, that have developed buyers remorse, after being with me in the last 7-8 years or so. I operate on the up and up and am not afraid to gratify their emotional needs, so long as they are investing in my needs as well. I think it would serve alot of the men here well to adopt a more fluid and less stringent approach to strategy, techniques and tools, rather than what you usually see with our newer guys, like "should I kiss or not" as a model of operation. Great song btw!

 

[Murk]

Yes you escalate through phone and text which makes your job on the first date so much easier. You want to go into a first date with sexual tones already established

 

[Macaframalama]

Yes you escalate through phone and text which makes your job on the first date so much easier. You want to go into a first date with sexual tones already established

Exactly! I have three goals that I try to achieve through texting. Build comfort, build expectation and break down barriers.

 

[marmel75]

You only become her gay friend if she isn't attracted to you.

Being afraid of that shows a scarcity mindset. When you have abundance you don't worry about this shyt. You just do your thing and the bitches who don't get with your program get dropped.

Doing my thing includes banging women on the first date. That's not happening if you want to play the "I'll pretend I'm gay" game.

 

[derby1]

If you are waiting til the end of the date for a kiss you are doing it all wrong.

what he said.....if you both smoke get her in the smoking shelter and as shes about to put the fag in her mouth ...take the fag out and just say "come here anyway"

WORKS FIRST TIME EVERYTIME

 

[Spidah]

Doing my thing includes banging women on the first date. That's not happening if you want to play the "I'll pretend I'm gay" game.

Its not the "I'll pretend I'm gay game". Its the "I have so much abundance I don't care what happens" game.

Do what works for you. All I'm saying is if you have any kind of fear of becoming her gay friend you don't have an abundance mindset.

 

[guru1000]

Going for a kiss too early on the first date is a HUGE mistake.

Men have a tendency to project their feelings --> BAD. Make her work for it. Keep her guessing whether you're into her or not. Women love mystery and they are attracted to men whose feeling are unclear (proven fact). The golden formula is to get her laughing, tease her a bit, touch her appropriately (arm, shoulder, small of back when leaving). Wash, rinse, repeat. Keep doing it. But DON'T kiss too early. That also shows neediness, and that you're over-eager, IMO.

This advice is generally given to newbies so they can learn to surrender their desperation. For the advanced, HER perception is of no consequence. All that matters is YOU. No calibrating to social norms, no calibrating to her, her buying temperature, or her perception of you, no contrivances “to win” her good graces; instead just bold and direct acts directed by your desire and volition, unencumbered by the contrivances of “game.” Here at the epitome, contrivances no longer exist; instead the “game” calibrates to you.

In the beginning, there’s structure (game). At the epitome of “game,” structure is surrendered replaced by authenticity.

 

[Jareamee]

Good conversation with solid information.