High Intensity Training with Mike Mentzer

[foreverAFC]

here is a pretty cool instructional with the late mike mentzer, i always loved mikes approach to bodybuilding and lifting, i often like to watch mike mentzer vidoes while i hit my vaporizer and prepare myself mentally for my workouts, he is one of my heroes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYXX9mFjSXY

 

[TheStig]

Don't tell me your vaporizer is your pre workout haha

 

[foreverAFC]

Don't tell me your vaporizer is your pre workout haha

it is, i like to spend a good 1 hour vaporizing and watching motivational videos before im ready to go lift hard

i also vaporize before jiu jitsu training sessions, there is nothing like getting high and rolling to reggae music, you really lose yourself in the activity

 

[TheStig]

I don't partake in any herbs so I'm having a hard time understanding how vaping would help with lifting hard. I could imagine how it could get you in the zone mentally, but I love being wired before a workout, and I wouldn't think vaping would get you all jacked and ready to go. So how's your experience doing what you do?

 

[[S]alvatore]

Not even going to comment on getting high before training.

HIT is good for trainees that use steroids, for a natural not so much. Even if you were to train beyond failure, your muscle is ready to be hit again in 48 hours. It's your nervous system that takes longer to recover. So if you can hit a muscle again in 48 hours, why would you wait a week in between like Mentzer preaches?

 

[foreverAFC]

HIT is good for trainees that use steroids, for a natural not so much. Even if you were to train beyond failure, your muscle is ready to be hit again in 48 hours. It's your nervous system that takes longer to recover. So if you can hit a muscle again in 48 hours, why would you wait a week in between like Mentzer preaches?

actually, HIT is great for natural users because it allows for more recovery time.

also, i dont know about you, but the way i workout it definitely takes me more than 48 hours to recover, mikes point is that by taking a couple days extra off to completely heal there is no threat of losing muscle but there is the possibility of gaining and becoming stronger, he really emphasis recovery as one of the most important parts of gaining muscle.

 

[foreverAFC]

I don't partake in any herbs so I'm having a hard time understanding how vaping would help with lifting hard. I could imagine how it could get you in the zone mentally, but I love being wired before a workout, and I wouldn't think vaping would get you all jacked and ready to go. So how's your experience doing what you do?

ive been doing this for around 10 years now i think, ever since i saw kevin spacy getting high and working out in american beauty, i thought hey why not do two activities i like at once. its all mental, i can really focus on what im doing and really get into it.

 

[DanZy]

actually, HIT is great for natural users because it allows for more recovery time.

also, i dont know about you, but the way i workout it definitely takes me more than 48 hours to recover, mikes point is that by taking a couple days extra off to completely heal there is no threat of losing muscle but there is the possibility of gaining and becoming stronger, he really emphasis recovery as one of the most important parts of gaining muscle.

HIT is awful for naturals, you don't need that vast amount of recovery. Why do so few naturals thrive on it? Because the stimuli just isn't there, it's nowhere near enough. I can only understand using HIT if you're over 40.

 

[foreverAFC]

HIT is awful for naturals, you don't need that vast amount of recovery. Why do so few naturals thrive on it? Because the stimuli just isn't there, it's nowhere near enough. I can only understand using HIT if you're over 40.

thats just your opinion, HIT will work just fine for natural people

 

[DanZy]

thats just your opinion, HIT will work just fine for natural people

And that's just your opinion. Where are these naturals who have gotten jacked on HIT? I'm yet to see one

 

[foreverAFC]

And that's just your opinion. Where are these naturals who have gotten jacked on HIT? I'm yet to see one a

what do you mean by jacked? nobody is going to look like an actual bodybuilder without steroids, no matter how they choose to lift. however, there are plenty of regular guys who have gotten in shape with HIT, you can see their videos on youtube.

here is an older guy doing HIT, he doesnt look like a roided bodybuilder but you can clearly see he has developed significant hypertrophy in his muscles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k

another guy who has developed significant hypertrophy from HIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PBaY4q_yBo

heres another guy who trains HIT, again he doesnt look like a pro bodybuilder but you can clearly see he has developed hypertrophy in his muscles and he looks in shape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTNvGLKEhw

another guy who uses HIT and is ripped
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPoNTODW4zg

this guy performs an HIT 1 minute chinup, he looks shredded for a natural guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_23cl5n8NaQ

i could probably find you many more examples, but you can look them up for yourself.

 

[[S]alvatore]

thats just your opinion, HIT will work just fine for natural people

No it's not just his opinion. It's been proven by science that for optimal hypertrophy, you should be doing 40-60 reps per muscle group (less for smaller muscles) twice per week. Will HIT work for some? Yes. Is there more efficient & effective ways to train? Yes.

 

[foreverAFC]

No it's not just his opinion. It's been proven by science that for optimal hypertrophy, you should be doing 40-60 reps per muscle group (less for smaller muscles) twice per week. Will HIT work for some? Yes. Is there more efficient & effective ways to train? Yes.

can you show me the proof?

 

[[S]alvatore]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-frequency-for-mass-gains.html

 

[foreverAFC]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-frequency-for-mass-gains.html

how is this proof, thats one guy expressing his opinion again, i didnt see any information about any actual scientific studies

 

[DanZy]

how is this proof, thats one guy expressing his opinion again, i didnt see any information about any actual scientific studies

One guy? That one guy is Lyle McDonald, possibly one of the greatest minds in the industry alongside the likes of Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Tom Venuto. And not one of them advocates such training.

Yes HIT works, if you're on a vast amount of gear

 

[foreverAFC]

One guy? That one guy is Lyle McDonald, possibly one of the greatest minds in the industry alongside the likes of Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Tom Venuto. And not one of them advocates such training.

Yes HIT works, if you're on a vast amount of gear

well salvator claimed it was scientifically proven, but i didnt see any proof in the link provided.

ive never heard of this guy lyle mcdonald, does he conduct scientific experiments one what type of training is best, or again is it just his opinion? is he a former mr olympia or some kind champion? cause in the images i see of him online he looks like he has a very poor physique, im leagues ahead of this fellow if this is who we are talking about.

 

[[S]alvatore]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287373

I don't know where you get your info from if you've never even heard a passing mention of Lyle. He was very average at weight training (more of an endurance athlete) which is part of the reason why he got into the industry, to actually learn what genetically average/below average trainees needed to do to make gains. Generally the best coaches weren't very good at their sport.

Here's a thread from bb.com where people have had experience with HIT: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132277263

I've been training for a long time. In that time, I've never known even one guy who used HIT and made any real progress for more than a few weeks.

I also regularly follow/post in a large number of journals in the 'journals' forum on this site. Not one of the journalers uses HIT.

It's been repeatedly clinically proven that multiple sets produce more gains than one set.

BTW, Mentzer was a volume trainer for many years and built most of his size with volume routines. Great physique, juice or no juice.

I dedicated myself to this program for 6 months after reading tons of info online suggesting HIT was great for buidling mass and a whole bunch of bs about overtraining and cortisol, and staying in the gym for over 45 minutes and your muscles shrink dadadaadada.

I got slightly stronger, but I lost 4 lbs and stalled like 1 month in the program...I thought it was my diet, protein was 1.25x bw and eating 250 cals in excess.

Switched back to an average bodybuilder split....working muscle 2x a week 12-18 sets and grew like I was on roids. Strength shot up, and noticed I lost a tad it of fat while gaining weight.

In the entire history of bodybuilding exactly 2 guys have had really good success using HIIT. They have ever since been held up by it's many many advocates, "see it works".

The thousands of sucessful bodybuilders whom it didn't work for somehow get ignored.

 

[foreverAFC]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287373

this article is about strength development, not hypertrophy

I don't know where you get your info from if you've never even heard a passing mention of Lyle. He was very average at weight training (more of an endurance athlete) which is part of the reason why he got into the industry, to actually learn what genetically average/below average trainees needed to do to make gains. Generally the best coaches weren't very good at their sport.

so he has no credentials then? why should i take his advice?

Here's a thread from bb.com where people have had experience with HIT: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132277263

well different things work better for others, but we dont know if they were even doing it right, if they had enough intensity or were going to true failure for example, i have provided videos of people who have gained muscle with HIT so we know it can work

 

[[S]alvatore]

so he has no credentials then? why should i take his advice?

Degree in kinesiology (exercise physiology), numerous books and a constant source of knowledge in the industry for almost 20 years.

well different things work better for others, but we dont know if they were even doing it right, if they had enough intensity or were going to true failure for example, i have provided videos of people who have gained muscle with HIT so we know it can work
Ok, so anyone who has not achieved notable results with HIT have not followed it properly?

You don't have an open mind, so I'm not going to bother.