Hi. I could use an honest opinion.

[Jet]

I'll try to make this as short as possible.
I'm 30. I've had sex once, over 10 years ago (which I don't even count cause it was a drunken mess) and I've never been in a relationship of any kind. I was always very overweight, even as a child--from which I have a lot of emotional/mental scars. I was almost 300 pounds a few years ago when I decided to make a change. Now I'm 160 and pretty muscular. After that much weight loss I was getting lots of signals from pretty girls but I still had no confidence from decades of low self-esteem and because after being that large I had lots of excess skin that I could hide while clothed but would be constantly in the back of my mind, knowing I couldn't hide it during sex etc.

Last June I had a major surgery to remove all of that extra skin and it was a very long recovery and financially I am still paying for it. This coming June I'll be undergoing a revision to fix a small scar issue and some additional lipo to be how I want to be. Because of the large cost of that operation ($15k) I've had to live with one of my parents, while I also work 30 hours a week and go to school full-time--nursing school, which is hardcore. I should be able to get my own place at the end of the summer.

I've been reading/studying "pua" stuff for the last year or so. I've been reading these forums off and on for the last 6 months after reading The Book of Pook (which I absolutely love). I've read the DJ Bible and many other things. I also like RSD Blueprint. I don't want to be a pua or anything. I just want to be normal and be able to talk to girls I like and be better at socializing in general. I have a lot of social anxiety though. I recently started seeing a counselor 4-5 weeks ago because I finally got health insurance and I started getting depressed again and having suicidal thoughts. I'm never happy. Never. I told the counselor I think my depression is caused by the social anxiety and being lonely and she agreed.
A friend of mine I told about seeing a counselor told me he had similar problems and he got some medication for anxiety that took away a lot of the inhibition he felt. I told the counselor this last week and she set me up for some extensive assessment by a psychotherapy nurse practitioner who will figure out what med will be best for me (tomorrow).

So, I'm curious how much I should be pressuring myself to get better with this stuff, or am I taking on enough already. Should I wait til I get my own place (cause that's a major sticking point)?

I'm lonely and sad all the time. I do have positive days though. I'm pretty happy with how I am physically now, but I still freeze/lock-up when I see someone I'm attracted to, even when I'm getting IOIs from very attractive girls. I don't know what to do. I'm so sick of being a wuss. I've learning a lot of what not to do especially, but I can't seem to take action. I feel like an alien..because of everything I never learned and don't know how to do. What should I do?

Thanks for reading.

 

[omega05]

do you really need to be taking meds to overcome anxiety? get some friends around you and go out and have fun.

 

[Mr. Bond]

Sounds like you did the right thing by asking your counselor for help. You're obviously depressed, which can really slow your development as a person. I've been there too, and sometimes medication helps. Hell, I've been on antidepressants for 10 years now. They're really helpful.

However, don't use meds as a replacement for hard work on yourself. The Book of Pook is amazing - make that sh*t a part of you. Also, if you've looked through the bible, try out the boot camp. It's a good way to get you into the habit of talking to people (and girls) without thinking anything of it. Good luck!

 

[Lexington]

There's no better time than now to get started with this DJ stuff. Even if logistics can be an issue since you live with your parents, you can at least work on doing approaches and getting comfortable with talking to girls.

Here's the way I'd look at it. You have absolutely nothing to lose by going out there and pursuing women. You're not getting any now and if you go after them and fail, all that's going to happen is that the status quo will be maintained.

Many would advise you to work on gaining confidence. I think that before one can gain confidence, one must lose the fear of rejection. Trust me, getting rejected is not nearly as bad as it may seem. Go out there with low expectations. In fact, pursue women with the intention of getting rejected. You'll be surprised to learn that after a certain number of approaches, you'll actually succeed.

At the end of the day, it can all be boiled down to a numbers game. If you have only a 5% chance of scoring a decent chick, if you approach 100 girls, you'll score with 5.

By the way, if you're going to get on an antidepressant, know that a lot of the commonly prescribed ones (e.g. SSRIs) have sexual side effects. You might want to ask for one without sexual side effects such as bupropion. Bupropion takes a few weeks before its effects manifest, so in the meantime you can take a benzodiazapene to relieve your anxiety.

 

[iqqi]

Take a comedy improv class.

I am serious.

The best thing you could do right now is to join some groups where you are around other people, and are learning something as well. Comedy improv will do wonders for you. But also, in addition, you could join a sports team as well. From those two things, you will become active and you will be around people.

I personally think it would be a recipe for disaster if you just went straight to cold approaching women, with only the goal of getting laid. Do NOT focus on women. Focus on yourself, and getting better at social situations.

 

[sodbuster]

As silly as Iqqi's idea sounds,it is an excellent idea. women LOVE men who can talk. they seem to think that talking is more important than action[how men will judge you].

 

[DjVita]

my friend, here are some simple tips

-set yourself hardcore , big time goals
- know yourself. strengths, weaknesses, and work on them, what passion in life do you have? what are you good at?
- let yourself know that you are an UNIQUE PERSON
-you decide your fate, no one else! this life is based on your desicions
- be happy, this life is progress, and the learning never ends.
-most people will do nothing to improve themselves, weve been conditioned to look outside, not within for answers to lifes toughest questions and challenges.


i find it great you found the courage to work out.

since i work out myself, ill give you an analogy.... do you remember when you started out training, with lil wimpy weights and few reps?
ahh and the PAIN!! sore muscles, when i did my first squat workout, i could not sit or walk. now, i lift 100kg.
how did i do it_
progression, practice and consistnecy!!
just like you did it, it got easier and easier
so know that in the beggining it WILL BE HARD!
but as you progress, it will get easier?
oh and about the sex thing, getting laid dosent equal being succesful with women...
so to your social life:
- know that most people are afraid of strangers but are receptive to outgoing, happy, engaging people
-pay attention! to your surroundings, to what people are talking about1
- assume the approach. any person 1 meter away from you or who has made eye contact with you is APPROACHABLE. so dont hesistate to get that @ss!

-learn to not care what other people think of you. look at great people like like Jesus, Martin Luther King , mel gibson making controversies, Howard stern etc. do you think they care if someone has a bad opinion?

- stop being afraid! OTHERS should be afraid of you, becs there is no fear in this life, its the mentality that stops you!

-depression? time to find your way, big man. be spiritual, have hope, faith in something, never falter!!

-still freezing up? just do it, dont worry about the outcome but be careful not to let yourself go, be balanced.

BE HAPPY! this life has so much to offer. focus on the great things in life.

 

[Jet]

do you really need to be taking meds to overcome anxiety? get some friends around you and go out and have fun.

I don't know, but I've tried many things, going out regardless of my inhibitions, and the degree to which I lock up and feel speechless never gets any less. I don't really have any friends that go out and do stuff. They're all either moved away or married and never go anywhere. I haven't made any new friends in a long time. I don't know how to do it. I don't even remember how I made friends with other friends. It just happened.
I'm totally up for initiating something after it feels right, but there's no way I can ask someone if they want to come over and hang out etc. I have a few people at the gym I talk to, and at the dojo where I do martial arts, and at school and work, but it never feels like I can take it further than the type of relationship you have with people at work. Know what I mean? I don't even feel like I know how to have fun anymore...

Sounds like you did the right thing by asking your counselor for help. You're obviously depressed, which can really slow your development as a person. I've been there too, and sometimes medication helps. Hell, I've been on antidepressants for 10 years now. They're really helpful.

However, don't use meds as a replacement for hard work on yourself. The Book of Pook is amazing - make that sh*t a part of you. Also, if you've looked through the bible, try out the boot camp. It's a good way to get you into the habit of talking to people (and girls) without thinking anything of it. Good luck!

Wow, thanks for letting me know meds can have that big of an impact. I was starting to feel like nothing would ever change but also trying to be as optimistic as possible. And every time I re-read more out of Pook and DJ Bible I do feel a lot more confident and actually try to get out of my comfort zone. I did try a bootcamp late last year, but I don't think I was ready for it and I almost failed out of school because I was spending time doing that and going out etc. I'll try again soon, thank you!

There's no better time than now to get started with this DJ stuff. Even if logistics can be an issue since you live with your parents, you can at least work on doing approaches and getting comfortable with talking to girls.

Here's the way I'd look at it. You have absolutely nothing to lose by going out there and pursuing women. You're not getting any now and if you go after them and fail, all that's going to happen is that the status quo will be maintained.

Many would advise you to work on gaining confidence. I think that before one can gain confidence, one must lose the fear of rejection. Trust me, getting rejected is not nearly as bad as it may seem. Go out there with low expectations. In fact, pursue women with the intention of getting rejected. You'll be surprised to learn that after a certain number of approaches, you'll actually succeed.

At the end of the day, it can all be boiled down to a numbers game. If you have only a 5% chance of scoring a decent chick, if you approach 100 girls, you'll score with 5.

By the way, if you're going to get on an antidepressant, know that a lot of the commonly prescribed ones (e.g. SSRIs) have sexual side effects. You might want to ask for one without sexual side effects such as bupropion. Bupropion takes a few weeks before its effects manifest, so in the meantime you can take a benzodiazapene to relieve your anxiety.

Hi! I think you're totally right. I'm where I want to be physically and there's no time to waste And wow, when you put it like that, 5% actually sounds really good. What kind of things do you suggest I try? I read a lot here about talking sexually to women (by IgetIt! and Kailex and others) but it seems so over my head. Should I just say **** it and try it anyways?

LOL, you really know your ****. Cool man thanks for the tip about the side effects. I'll do that

Take a comedy improv class.

I am serious.

The best thing you could do right now is to join some groups where you are around other people, and are learning something as well. Comedy improv will do wonders for you. But also, in addition, you could join a sports team as well. From those two things, you will become active and you will be around people.

I personally think it would be a recipe for disaster if you just went straight to cold approaching women, with only the goal of getting laid. Do NOT focus on women. Focus on yourself, and getting better at social situations.

Ok, I wish you could have felt the anxiety that just went through me just reading what you wrote. That sounds like my worst nightmare. But I really do want to improve socially, not just with women. I think women are something cool that comes along with that. I live in kind of a msall area and I'm not sure if the community college even offers something like that but I will look into it!


DjVita, your message really speaks to me. I have a couple major questions though. With your strength training analogy.. I get the first part of it. You're totally right about it being painful at first, and then it gets easier. Now some of the weights I do are ten times the weight I begun at, and I don't even feel pain any more.
But that seemed so easy compared to this. With ST, it was simple. I showed up, put the time in and made sure I got enough protein. That's it. But with this social problem I feel I show up and all of the tools I need to do the work are missing. And I can't do the work without the tools, no matter how much time I put in. I read material etc. but when I'm in the moment I don't feel like I know how to talk to and connect with people. Of course I have my moments...but in general I feel like I'm at a loss.

And I guess I'm good at something because I totally don't care what people think of me. I just don't know how to be very social and no amount of not caring helps me get those tools. Yeah. Still freezing up. What do you do when you just do it? Examples would be awesome. Thanks so much for the encouragement =)

 

[iqqi]

Ok, I wish you could have felt the anxiety that just went through me just reading what you wrote. That sounds like my worst nightmare. But I really do want to improve socially, not just with women. I think women are something cool that comes along with that. I live in kind of a msall area and I'm not sure if the community college even offers something like that but I will look into it!

It's probably more of a big city thing, but if you are close enough to a big city, it might even be worth it for you to make the trip once a week to take a class like that.

And also, comedy improv might not be for you. If you aren't really funny at all, and not into humour. Maybe try a regular acting class. Both are basically teaching you how to "be" on stage, which is what you are in most social situations.

The most important thing, is to find some kind of social activity, be it a team, a writing club, an improv class, whatever, so that you can be around people and learn how to interact with them.

Laughter is the shortest bridge between two people, and that is why I always recommend comedy improv.

 

[Lexington]

Hi! I think you're totally right. I'm where I want to be physically and there's no time to waste And wow, when you put it like that, 5% actually sounds really good. What kind of things do you suggest I try? I read a lot here about talking sexually to women (by IgetIt! and Kailex and others) but it seems so over my head. Should I just say **** it and try it anyways?

LOL, you really know your ****. Cool man thanks for the tip about the side effects. I'll do that

My suggestion to you is to just make peace with getting rejected. You have to go in with an "I don't give a fvck" attitude. You might even want to try some "lol approaches." These are basically approaches in which you go in with the aim of getting blown out in a hilarious manner. Go up to them and be crass and rude....just having a good time. You'll be shocked to find that it can actually be hard to get rejected sometimes!

A lot of guys here preach the idea that you should have this inflated self-image. You don't really need that. I know where I stand. I'm not the best looking guy, but I'm not the worst looking either. There are guys out there that are way better looking than I am. But I still get more tail than them because I just simply work harder.....I do more approaches.

Logically, it makes sense....what the fvck do any of us lose by getting rejected? Absolutely nothing. But of course, when it comes down to it, emotion takes over and it becomes very tough. If you go through a bunch of rejections, you become almost completely immune to it and that really allows you to take full advantage of the numbers game.

 

[Jet]

It's probably more of a big city thing, but if you are close enough to a big city, it might even be worth it for you to make the trip once a week to take a class like that.

And also, comedy improv might not be for you. If you aren't really funny at all, and not into humour. Maybe try a regular acting class. Both are basically teaching you how to "be" on stage, which is what you are in most social situations.

The most important thing, is to find some kind of social activity, be it a team, a writing club, an improv class, whatever, so that you can be around people and learn how to interact with them.

Laughter is the shortest bridge between two people, and that is why I always recommend comedy improv.

Yeah the team sport thing sounds better honestly, but I'll look into both. I'm willing to try, thanks!

 

[Jet]

My suggestion to you is to just make peace with getting rejected. You have to go in with an "I don't give a fvck" attitude. You might even want to try some "lol approaches." These are basically approaches in which you go in with the aim of getting blown out in a hilarious manner. Go up to them and be crass and rude....just having a good time. You'll be shocked to find that it can actually be hard to get rejected sometimes!

A lot of guys here preach the idea that you should have this inflated self-image. You don't really need that. I know where I stand. I'm not the best looking guy, but I'm not the worst looking either. There are guys out there that are way better looking than I am. But I still get more tail than them because I just simply work harder.....I do more approaches.

Logically, it makes sense....what the fvck do any of us lose by getting rejected? Absolutely nothing. But of course, when it comes down to it, emotion takes over and it becomes very tough. If you go through a bunch of rejections, you become almost completely immune to it and that really allows you to take full advantage of the numbers game.

Hmm, so do you think that I think I don't care, but I really do? And once I get rejected enough I'll be able to not get all flustered?

Also, I had a 2 hour assessment with the mental health nurse practitioner and she wants to try a SSRI. It's one I never heard of before and I never saw the script. She just faxed it in to my pharmacy. She did mention a lowered libido but she said all of them have that potential and it's not that common. I mentioned to her what you said and she said that benzos (which I thought is what she would end up prescribing) are more for short term anxiety, whereas I have a history of 20+ years of it. And I mentioned your other suggestion and she said yeah that's a good med too, but she wanted me to try this other one for a couple specific reasons but if I had side effects from it, the other would definitely be a possibility.

I'm really excited because she also said that it would take 2-6 weeks to take effect, but when it does it will be like I'm thinking totally differently. I'll be living in the moment and not worried about upcoming events and it will help me be able to socialize.

I really appreciate your help man. I feel more positive than ever. I'm gonna make a journal like I see some guys do and record any changes I notice and encounters I have. Feel free to post any suggestions or criticisms etc. =)

 

[Lexington]

Hmm, so do you think that I think I don't care, but I really do? And once I get rejected enough I'll be able to not get all flustered?

For whatever reason, a lot of us have this incredible fear of getting rejected. It's not at all logical or rational. Of course, logic means little when you are overwhelmed with fear.

If you get rejected enough times, you get completely desensitized to it. This is part of the reason why douchebags get laid way more than nice guys....they don't give a fvck if they get rejected.

Now, I'm used to getting rejected. In fact, I get rejected more often than I succeed. But what do I care? I'm always working on multiple chicks at once and taking full advantage of the numbers game. Remember, a man with options is truly free. That doesn't apply to dating, it applies to everything.

Also, I had a 2 hour assessment with the mental health nurse practitioner and she wants to try a SSRI. It's one I never heard of before and I never saw the script. She just faxed it in to my pharmacy. She did mention a lowered libido but she said all of them have that potential and it's not that common. I mentioned to her what you said and she said that benzos (which I thought is what she would end up prescribing) are more for short term anxiety, whereas I have a history of 20+ years of it. And I mentioned your other suggestion and she said yeah that's a good med too, but she wanted me to try this other one for a couple specific reasons but if I had side effects from it, the other would definitely be a possibility.

She's right. Benzos are for the short term, but they kick in faster. I suggested you get a benzo in the short term while you wait for the effects of the other med to kick in. That's what I would do personally, but she's your doc, not me and I'm sure she has her reasons.

Yeah, I should have made clear that SSRIs don't always cause sexual side effects, but they can in a certain percentage of cases. They can lower libido and cause anorgasmia (inability to orgasm) as well. SSRIs block serotonin reuptake, thus making more serotonin available. Serotonin is prescribed to delay orgasm in people who suffer from premature ejaculation. So in a person without that problem, it can lead to not being able to orgasm at all!

Just give it a try and see if these side effects happen to you. If they do, ask her to switch you over to bupropion. SSRIs are generally considered to be the first line drugs.

I'm really excited because she also said that it would take 2-6 weeks to take effect, but when it does it will be like I'm thinking totally differently. I'll be living in the moment and not worried about upcoming events and it will help me be able to socialize.

I really appreciate your help man. I feel more positive than ever. I'm gonna make a journal like I see some guys do and record any changes I notice and encounters I have. Feel free to post any suggestions or criticisms etc. =)

Good luck with everything!

 

[deuce42]

Jet

I am not trying to be some gay self help schmuck, and I am not some chick expert, BUT i AM PROUD OF YOU!

If your life was as bad as you describe, you have already taken the first step to fixing it. Your here to learn and your doing something about it. Thats awesome. Just by taking the decision to come here you've already started your new life. Here is my rationale - the hardest part of fixing a problem to actually get started with it. Often when you only do a tiny thing, the fact that you have done something makes the next tasks seem easier and not so overwhelming. You have already taken the step to join this group and learn stuff, now's your chance to put into practice everthing here and have fun doing it.

PUA stuff only becomes a problem when you take the fun out of it and see your success as dictating your happiness. Thats when pressure is stupid and pointless. Not everything will work. Somethings will fail terribly, but some things will also work like a charm dude. They really will.

Best of luck.

 

[synergy1]

Hmm, so do you think that I think I don't care, but I really do? And once I get rejected enough I'll be able to not get all flustered?

At first it sucks. I still remember some of my first real bad rejections back at parties when I was starting to apply getting better at this whole thing. We are talking about introductions, and not even getting a visual response rejection; the void of silence can be deafening! Now, I don't care. In fact, most rejections are spun into stories.

My question to you is this; do you have something you love to do that is a hobby? Essentially something to preoccupy you from your depressing mind? While not in your situation, I find by keeping myself busy with anything helps ward off negativity. Better yet is working towards a goal, be it athletic or otherwise. For example, check out folks in the health & fitness section of this forum.

Basically it comes down to this, if you are too busy, you won't have time to get all messed up in your own head. Don't worry about chicks for now, get a hobby/life and work on your own mental state.