Hey Rollo

Rollo Tomassi

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How did Tiger Woods not just stop after his first major defeat? He knew he'd played countless other games where he kicked ass and he recognized his own potential to play up to a professional level. It's real easy to go to Hallmark and find a greeting card that says 'believe in yourself' rah rah, but it's the doing and the feedback from it that generates the self-recognition of one's own potential. There were many times in my life when I had no actual Plates spinning, but knowing I could generate more kept me from compromising or lowering my standards in order to get laid or "just to have anyone." That's the primary goal of the Plate Theory mindset - a subconscious recognition of options available and/or the ability to generate new ones.
 

ketostix

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Jitterbug said:
There are different levels of confidence. There's confidence that comes from knowing that you have the abilities to accomplish your goals, and there's confidence that comes from your successes.

That makes sense and I agree with it. I'm just saying if plate spinning is intend to raise your confidence that you can accomplish a goal (having option(s)) then the ones who need plate spinning the most and the the ones who are least confident would have the least ability and success at attempting plate spinning, right? It's like a catch 22.
 

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guru1000 said:
I couldn't speak from personal experience with regard to Plate Theory progression. I have always had a natural talent.

However in other areas of life, "FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT" has worked wonders. As I expressed in another thread, when repeated behavior PRODUCES results, then true CONFIDENCE is realized.
OK I'm with you so far.

In this sense, plate theory is essential to the novice. Its a numbers game. With tenacious application, the novice will eventually reap the benefits of RESULTS which will DEVELOP into a natural CONFIDENCE.
My problem with it is before you can consider a plate a plate you have to be successful at attracting women. Otherwise plate spinning is just pursuing lots of women who aren't even interested in you. That will drag you down and your confidence down. My point is if you can get a plate in x amount of time and after an x amount of approaches, then how many plates you get is immaterial.


The problem as I previously addressed is that theories, ideas and concepts will not help the individual who does not apply it tenaciously. Perserverance of application is necessary for any theory to actualize.
OK so plate theory is really just saying be tenacious with just how many women you attract? From what I understand it really doesn't say how you will actually get plates, it seems to just assume that if you have one or two plates getting a few more will makeyou better at getting even more plates.

I do agree with Rollo when he explains that having more than one option or plate keeps you from developing one-itis and becoming an AFC over one bad plate though.
 

ketostix

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Rollo Tomassi said:
How did Tiger Woods not just stop after his first major defeat? He knew he'd played countless other games where he kicked ass and he recognized his own potential to play up to a professional level. It's real easy to go to Hallmark and find a greeting card that says 'believe in yourself' rah rah, but it's the doing and the feedback from it that generates the self-recognition of one's own potential. There were many times in my life when I had no actual Plates spinning, but knowing I could generate more kept me from compromising or lowering my standards in order to get laid or "just to have anyone." That's the primary goal of the Plate Theory mindset - a subconscious recognition of options available and/or the ability to generate new ones.

OK I fully agree with this. I guess what I'm getting at is a successful plate spinner spins plates, but plate spinning does not a plate spinner make.
 

Jitterbug

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Rollo Tomassi said:
There were many times in my life when I had no actual Plates spinning, but knowing I could generate more kept me from compromising or lowering my standards in order to get laid or "just to have anyone." That's the primary goal of the Plate Theory mindset - a subconscious recognition of options available and/or the ability to generate new ones.
:up: Just recently, I "lost" 2 FBs as they pursued a relationship and a plate (moving to another country). Went back to zero for a short while, but I knew I could get the plates spinning again and now I'm back to 2.

ketosix said:
That makes sense and I agree with it. I'm just saying if plate spinning is intend to raise your confidence that you can accomplish a goal (having option(s)) then the ones who need plate spinning the most and the the ones who are least confident would have the least ability and success at attempting plate spinning, right? It's like a catch 22.
You must be a mathematician or programmer. :D

I see plate spinning as an application of the Abundance Mentality rather than some static tool that you *need* in order to enhance your love life & confidence. I'm spinning two plates with two potentials on the side right now just because I happen to run into a lot of attractive women daily and can't help myself :p but I'd be perfectly fine with going after 1 woman at a time, knowing that I *can* always get another, if the current one doesn't work out.

It's not a catch-22. Confidence, ability & success are things that you can build upon. They are not solid, static objects that you either have or have not.
 

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My problem with it is before you can consider a plate a plate you have to be successful at attracting women. Otherwise plate spinning is just pursuing lots of women who aren't even interested in you. That will drag you down and your confidence down. My point is if you can get a plate in x amount of time and after an x amount of approaches, then how many plates you get is immaterial.

OK so plate theory is really just saying be tenacious with just how many women you attract? From what I understand it really doesn't say how you will actually get plates, it seems to just assume that if you have one or two plates getting a few more will makeyou better at getting even more plates.

I do agree with Rollo when he explains that having more than one option or plate keeps you from developing one-itis and becoming an AFC over one bad plate though.[/
I am drawing the line from Point A - Point B. The reasons of drawing that line is the theory.
 

ketostix

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Jitterbug said:
I see plate spinning as an application of the Abundance Mentality rather than some static tool that you *need* in order to enhance your love life & confidence. I'm spinning two plates with two potentials on the side right now just because I happen to run into a lot of attractive women daily and can't help myself :p but I'd be perfectly fine with going after 1 woman at a time, knowing that I *can* always get another, if the current one doesn't work out.
Well to be honest I'm not a big fan of the Abundance Mentality. I believe there's sufficient to go around but not abundance. I'm not going to get into a big thing here, but let's just say I'm not a fan of bilionaires either who don't even doing anything with their wealth. I guess my point is if everyone plate spins then we're either sharing our women among different men or a lot of guys are going without. It's a system of exponential demand but with a flat supply. I'm not judging or blaming, I'm just making the point that you have to know when enough of anything is too much and more won't satiate you or really benefit you. Having said that if you are fine with having a few women that you are most likely sharing with other guys that's fine.

It's not a catch-22. Confidence, ability & success are things that you can build upon. They are not solid, static objects that you either have or have not.

OK, I agree you can build on confidence. I guess what I'm getting at is plate spinning can have some downsides and it's not all fun and positive. I don't see anything wrong with being exclusive with a girl as long as she's being a positive influence. What really matters is whether can you get a girl you want in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort.
 

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ketostix said:
I guess my point is if everyone plate spins then we're either sharing our women among different men or a lot of guys are going without.
That's a big IF. Few people do and even fewer can. Yeah, a lot of guys are going without. Just look around you and you'll see that it's obvious. That's life. Some people have several houses. Most are breaking their backs just to pay rent and can never afford a house.

It's a system of exponential demand but with a flat supply. I'm not judging or blaming, I'm just making the point that you have to know when enough of anything is too much and more won't satiate you or really benefit you. Having said that if you are fine with having a few women that you are most likely sharing with other guys that's fine.
I agree that it's very easy to get addicted to this and carried away.

I'd be a hypocrit if I plate-spin and have a problem with the women doing the same. The thing is that they do the same whether I plate-spin or not. Pretty much every guy here has had to learn that eye-opening lesson.

OK, I agree you can build on confidence. I guess what I'm getting at is plate spinning can have some downsides and it's not all fun and positive. I don't see anything wrong with being exclusive with a girl as long as she's being a positive influence.
I like chasing women at this stage, but I'd still rather be in a relationship with someone I really click with. While I'm looking for that person, I might as well have some fun.

What really matters is can you get a girl you want in a resonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort.
I don't think anyone can answer you that question. This isn't a maths or programming problem, mate. :p
 

ketostix

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Jitterbug said:
That's a big IF. Few people do and even fewer can. Yeah, a lot of guys are going without. Just look around you and you'll see that it's obvious. That's life. Some people have several houses. Most are breaking their backs just to pay rent and can never afford a house.



I agree that it's very easy to get addicted to this and carried away.

I'd be a hypocrit if I plate-spin and have a problem with the women doing the same. The thing is that they do the same whether I plate-spin or not. Pretty much every guy here has had to learn that eye-opening lesson.



I like chasing women at this stage, but I'd still rather be in a relationship with someone I really click with. While I'm looking for that person, I might as well have some fun.
I think we are basically in agreement.



I don't think anyone can answer you that question. This isn't a maths or programming problem, mate. :p
What do you mean, no math skills are needed? You want a GF, fclose, or xyz from a girl. You obtain this after going out for a couple weeks and approached 10 girls. There's where your confidence comes from. But if you went out for 6 months and approached 300 girls and didn't get anything you wanted, then you know you have something you need to change. I assume you're just giving me a hard time with the programmer jab ;).
 

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ketostix said:
OK I fully agree with this. I guess what I'm getting at is a successful plate spinner spins plates, but plate spinning does not a plate spinner make.
I think you meant to say: "A successful plate spinner spins plate successfully, but spinning plates does not necessarily make the plate spinner successful." Correct?

Well, there is some truth to that arguement. What you said about approaching for 6 months/not getting any result/something wrong with YOU; that I agree with. This is where knowing your potential and going after girls who will give you the time of the day comes into play. Remember, spinning plates also means dating variety of girls. You might find out that the nerdy looking HB6 is a freak in the bed.

Spinning plates will only make you successful when you're spinning the right plates. If you keep going after girls with low interest in you, then you will abandon plate spinning and pick up fast food catering (alright fine, it's a bad joke).

Do you see the arguement, keto? I think your arguement makes a U-turn and ends up at Rollo's plate theoy.
 

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The Bat said:
I think you meant to say: "A successful plate spinner spins plate successfully, but spinning plates does not necessarily make the plate spinner successful." Correct?

Well, there is some truth to that arguement. What you said about approaching for 6 months/not getting any result/something wrong with YOU; that I agree with. This is where knowing your potential and going after girls who will give you the time of the day comes into play. Remember, spinning plates also means dating variety of girls. You might find out that the nerdy looking HB6 is a freak in the bed.

Spinning plates will only make you successful when you're spinning the right plates. If you keep going after girls with low interest in you, then you will abandon plate spinning and pick up fast food catering (alright fine, it's a bad joke).

Do you see the arguement, keto? I think your arguement makes a U-turn and ends up at Rollo's plate theoy.
Those are some good points. I think what I'm saying is a lot of guys think they are spinning plates but really the plates are spinning him. Plate spinning is just a natural product of dealing with women to a large extent. And also the observation of a successful plate spinner is observing the effect of a person good with women not the cause, I guess. The bottom line is either you are successful and confident with women or not, regardless of how many plates you choose. But I do see the value of experiencing variety and not focusing on one girl. I don't know if I'd call that plate theory or not though.
 

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Plate spinning can be fairly described as a state of affairs where a person has a number of plates (dating partners) with whom he interacts with (has sex with) in a non-exclusive fashion on a somewhat regular basis over some reasonably ongoing period. It goes without saying that this involves 'real' plates, real people. Not, as the word is (ab)used here, to mean girls from whom you got an indicator of interest, or are thinking of pursuing, or went out with once or twice, or, worse - imaginary or virtual plates, plates that you could spin, if only you so wanted. If you are not doing as described above, you are not spinning plates. Maybe 'dating' is a better word for what you are doing. Call it what it is. This also would exclude people who are in LTRs or are married.

Plate Theory doesnt explain anything about plate spinning for the simple reason that it only tangentially has anything to do with plate spinning. Amazingly, you dont need actual plates - ie real flesh and blood people in a rotation. Thats why people with no plates (only virtual ones) or those in LTRs can (supposedly) take advantage of plate theory. This in itself should alert people to the the fact that it doesnt have much to do with 'real' plates or plate spinning. Its describing something else.

Where the essence of plate theory is that a man is as confident and valuable as his options, maybe it should be called Options Theory. But even then, its not clear what the point is - it seems to imply that having options makes you confident and valuable. But one could just as easily claim the opposite - that being confident will increase the options available to you. Or that being valuable leads to being confident, or any other configuration or permutation. If something is true even when read backwards or upside down, you are probably not saying much. The whole thing suffers from chicken and egg disease. So it doesnt seem very insightful to me. Particularly as none of this is 'proven' or supported by anything, or argued convincingly.

At best, the most you could say (if you need to say anything) is that they (options, value, confidence, etc) are kind of clustered, and are probably positively correlated with each other. I think we understood that already. The whole thing, insofar as it is at all coherent, seems to me just linguistic stone skipping and is largely analytic (as in, its truth is basically contained in the way we use and understand the words without the need to go to the real world - on the order of discovering that bachelors tend to be unmarried).

But if the general point of plate theory is that (generaly) having more options rather than less is better, well, no kidding. Maybe i can invent Dollar Theory - having more dollars gives you more options which gives you more value (literally). Or Plate Theory 2 - lifting plates in the gym (barbell plates) gives you strength which gives you confidence which gives you options which gives you value which gives you confidence, which... etc. Or how about Employable Skills Theory? If you have lots of employable skills, then that gives you options, which gives you confidence...

Plate spinning is an end in itself. It is not a means to an end. Also, if you are spinning plates (again, real ones) You probably already have a sufficient amount of confidence, so you arent going to gain much from it in that respect. Again though, were it actually proven that a person with no plates and a given amount of confidence then gets plates (real ones) and then shows some increase in confidence attributable solely to plate-spinning (having excluded other possibilities), that might be interesting - but the theory (dont get me started on the use of the word theory to inflate what is merely a thought, or a notion, or an idea) just claims it (or something to that effect), so its usefulness escapes me.

One more: it is also stated that one very important benefit that plate theory provides is that it greatly curbs the propensity for oneitis both in and out of an LTR - ummm, no. Actual plate-spinning might do that, but not the 'theory'. Similary, while it may be true that spinning more plates allows you the opportunity to sift through potential partners, this refers to 'actual' plates, and actual plate spinning, not plate theory. And, its no that opportunity and options make a man the PRIZE; rather, people who are the prize (whatever that vague notion is) tend to have more options and opportunities, possibly as a result of such status - or maybe they have them because they are more creative in seeing them, or are more diligent in pursuing them... or any reason you want to conjure up on your keyboard, luckily free from the need to support your theory.
 

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The problem with tagging the word "theory" onto any idea or assertion is that it always seems to imply a convenient 'out' for the one making the assertions in the form of a disclaimer that the notion could be re-interpreted or is subject to change and then updating. This is useful in one sense because "theory" allows for new information to modify it, but it also makes for a real obvious chink in the armor for anyone who'd disagree with it because it either conflicts with a personal agenda or for newly revealed facts that disprove it or modify it substantially. However, that's the nature of a theory, and it has to be accepted - it's just the devil you deal with - but the merits of a theory (not to be confused with a "belief") is that they are open to interpretation and the validity of it should measured against at least some kind of unbiased critical review.

But this isn't what you're doing here. Your assertions are that Plate Theory and Plate Spinning are mutually exclusive, to which I'd agree. They can be and often are. Women are 'natural' plate spinners, in practice and in theory, even if for most this is an unconscious process. This can be attributed to biology and the parental investment - sexual selection dynamic that inherent in their gender. Men too can separate the practice (plate spinning) and the theory. The 'natural' guy blessed with good looks, talent and unlimited potential will rarely make the theory-practice connection; he simply does (practices) what's always been a given for him and has it reinforced by the rewards that come along with it - sex and success.

The problem is that this 'natural' guy, and women by default, run the risk of incurring the consequences of social contrivances if they are too overt in their practice, and/or they draw attention to the process and mechanisms (the theory) that underly it. These are the guys who get called "players" and the women who get called "sluts", AW's and gold diggers. It's not that they're doing anything different from the rest of the masses, or they're motivated in their behavior for any less a reason than anyone else, it's that they draw undue attention overtly to the practice and the process. All women are AWs to some degree, but its the ones who overtly reveal it that we label AWs. Biologically, all men are Players (or would like to be), but its the one's who overtly reveal it who we call Players.

That said, it's the practice that offends our socialized sensibilities more so than the theory. This is why I think you bothered to try to note the separation here. There is very little in Plate Theory that people's personal investments are challenged by. Maintaining and recognizing options and benefiting from the confidence they offer is simple pragmatism that sounds inspirational from the other side of a keyboard, but it's the practice of spinning plates and non-exclusivity in real life, after (in most cases) a lifetime of conditioning that's convinced us we ought to desperately cling to the first best thing to come along that makes it seem offensive.

disillusionist said:
Maybe 'dating' is a better word for what you are doing. Call it what it is.
There was a point in time where this was a given. "Dating" was non-exclusive. Half the reason I wrote Plate Theory was to draw attention to this in the wake of a constant group-think that promotes ONEitis and the soulmate myth. Scarcity Mentality is the antithesis of Plate Theory, but this is exactly what's been promoted for almost 50 years now. There was a time when adults could date many different people and maturely understand that dating didn't imply a default LTR. This is exactly the common perception these days, which is why we'll grind our teeth at 'Branch Swingers' or 'Serial Monogamist' and be equally upset with someone who refuses to jump surreptitiously into an LTR with us after the 2nd date. It's this mass, Scarcity Mentality insecurity coupled with the social stigma for anyone even maturely practicing non-exclusivity that's lead to a need to understand the underpinnings of what Dating ought to be. This is where Plate Theory comes in.

This is why people get upset with Plate Theory; most (men in this instance)
people have been so conditioned for so long to see any semblance of an acceptable monogamy as the only real way for long term contentment that the practice of being non-exclusive becomes counterintuitive. So we have countless guys seeking out advice on how to get and keep the girl of their dreams, rather than thinking about what that idealization really is and why they think as they do.
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
So we have countless guys seeking out advice on how to get and keep the girl of their dreams, rather than thinking about what that idealization really is and why they think as they do.
Very true.

You say AWs are just women being themselves and it's social contrivance that makes them feel bad or makes us look at them bad, for being who they are. What about married women who walk around flirting with other men. Are they just being "normal"? Are they aware of how their behavior could be viewed by their husband? Do they care? I'd imagine they are the same person their husband married. Does this make a girl "low quality"?
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
RESET, read this thread for my response:

Your Attention Please

It's an oldy but goody.
Can you open it for a day or so? Or at worst...bump it?
Sometimes is good to revisit old threads...see how people's opinion have changed (if at all).

Just a suggestion.
 

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Interesting. I thought when a woman married those needs were satisfied, or at the least, she wouldn't seek out attention from other men. But they always need it.

BTW I guess this is why withdrawing attention is so effective.
 
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