Help with this situation

[nerve]

I started dating with a new coworker a little over a month now. She is very friendly with everybody and sometimes a little flirty too. Everything went fine since the first date, we get along and we have a lot of fun together. The thing is that she got out of a LTR of 2 years five months ago and she even thought she was going to get married to the guy. She dated a couple of guys before me but said she didn't really liked them, now that she's with me says that she loves being around me, blah blah blah... like a dumbass, I started to treat her really nice too quick; always there for her and everything. Now I realize that she's most likely just using me to get over her ex. We have nothing official, but I do like her. The big red flags are that in front of her friends we just act like well, friends... but in front of my friends she acts like my girl, but I feel like I dont have the right to say anything about it since we're really not official. She does put some effort in seeing me, but most of the time I feel like her friends come first and if it doesnt work out then she wants to go out with me. I'm a classic AFC I guess.

Since we see each other so often and we talk, I'd like to slow that a little otherwise it's going to get boring very quick, but when I do, she asks me why didnt I call her or text her and notices right away. Now I'm trying to turn the tables here. I'm having issues making this change smooth enough that she wont think that I lost interest. Any advice?

 

[jophil28]

. I'm a classic AFC I guess.

Now I'm trying to turn the tables here. I'm having issues making this change smooth enough that she wont think that I lost interest. Any advice?

I don't like the term AFC because it is so meaningless to be useful .
However,you are indeed a classic "rebound guy " and you have made all the classic mistakes that guys make in trying to date a woman who is still newly single.

Let me put it this way.
A woman like yours will recruit the next guy (after her ex) to validate her. Women take breakups harder than men in many ways because they define their worth through relationships. A failed relationships feels devastating to most woman and so ,when they start seeing a new guy, they are seeking reinflation of their ego and validation of their market value from him. That is your job whether you want it or not, or like it or not.
Men like you assume that she would be so eager to appreciate a steady nice guy like you that she would sign up without hestitation. Well woman do not do that usually. They use the first guy (maybe more) to escort her back out onto the playing field ... on his dollar. To her mind he needs to be safe and predictable and somewhat compliant. By the guy acting out this role, her ego is becoming restored and her self esteem is elevated, BUT frequently she regards this relationship as TRANSITIONAL.

Are you ready for this ?
She is "still shopping"..that is why she is still flirty with others and also why she acts like "friends" around her friends with you. Her actions speak the truth about her feelings. SHe is sending her friends this message, " He is nice, and he is useful, but he is not THE ONE" .
Forget entirely what she says, believe her behavior. Actions have a language all of their own.

If I were you I would do a slow takeaway. Contrary to what you believe, you need to let her think that you ARE losing interest. She has you wriggling on the sharp end of her hook and she knows it.

I could go on but maybe you need to read a lot more about how attraction works before you go on another date with her..

 

[Mr. Me]

>> I started dating with a new coworker >>

That's not too wise to begin with.

>> sometimes a little flirty too >>

That says something about her. A need for male attention, perhaps?

>> She dated a couple of guys before me but said she didn't really liked them, now that she's with me says that she loves being around me, blah blah blah >>

This is good! I think she's being honest when she tells you that you're the one that's turning her on and that she only met dorks before you. That doesn't make her flirting around any better, but it sounds like she's into you.

>> Now I realize that she's most likely just using me to get over her ex. >>

Here's the problem with trying to figure out if you're the "rebound guy" or not. If a girl is out of a LTR, she may have been out of it way before she finally physically left. She may find the next guy to be more to her liking. She may be ready for someone new. Just because you happen to be the next guy after her relationship, doesn't necessarily make you a rebound. You have to see how it plays out.

But even if it's a rebound, it can still pan out. So, I wouldn't think about if it is or isn't. I'd just see if dating her is coming along nicely or not. IOW, make your decisions from what you actually see happening, instead of hypothesizing what ifs.

>> The big red flags are that in front of her friends we just act like well, friends >>

If she's introducing you to her friends, that's good, but yeah, she ought to be draping herself over you, if that's what she's doing when her friends aren't around. So, yep, that becomes a flag. Just as much a flag as putting her friends first and you're a secondary thought.

So do I have this correct that at one point, earlier on, was when she said she liked you best, but it's now that she's putting her friends first? In which case, she lost some interest in you along the way and it may have been the reason you suspect: that you were too available and too willing to be there.

So, yeah, pull back a bit, see her just once a week, create a little void and let her put more effort into seeing you. You don't have to tell her anything about where you are or what you're doing, just say "I'm busy".

 

[nerve]

The replies so far are very helpful. Thanks.

If I were you I would do a slow takeaway. Contrary to what you believe, you need to let her think that you ARE losing interest. She has you wriggling on the sharp end of her hook and she knows it.

I could go on but maybe you need to read a lot more about how attraction works before you go on another date with her..

Thanks! Is there anything specific that you recommend reading?

That's not too wise to begin with.

I admit that I made a big mistake there.

Here's the problem with trying to figure out if you're the "rebound guy" or not. If a girl is out of a LTR, she may have been out of it way before she finally physically left. She may find the next guy to be more to her liking. She may be ready for someone new. Just because you happen to be the next guy after her relationship, doesn't necessarily make you a rebound. You have to see how it plays out.

The breakup actually took her by surprise, that is why I think she's just using me at this point. I will pay more attention in what she does rather than what she says though.

So do I have this correct that at one point, earlier on, was when she said she liked you best, but it's now that she's putting her friends first? In which case, she lost some interest in you along the way and it may have been the reason you suspect: that you were too available and too willing to be there.

This was from the beginning, the second week that we started seeing each other I met her friends along with one of the guys she dated before me but after the LTR. I've only been out with her and her friends a few times, so I'd like to see next time we hang with her friends if her attitude towards me in front of them changed in any way.

 

[jophil28]

There are many approaches out there in the dating literature, but what is missing in your story,above all, is your ability to set a frame.
In fact she is leading you.

Are you dating or seeing other woman, have you slept with this woman, has the L word dropped out of your lips, is she flexible and eager to see you, or do you have to "work" to get time alone with her?..
IF she had to make a choice between hanging out with her friends, or going out with you which would she choose?

 

[nerve]

I do talk to other girls but not really 'dating' any other girl. She usually comes over to my place after work and we do have sex regularly, in fact, she stayed over a few times. Since we see each other often I think she would choose to hang out with her friends if they invite her somewhere. About a week ago she was the one who dropped the L word and has said it a few times since.

 

[DJDamage]

She usually comes over to my place after work and we do have sex regularly, in fact, she stayed over a few times. Since we see each other often I think she would choose to hang out with her friends if they invite her somewhere. About a week ago she was the one who dropped the L word and has said it a few times since.

I fail to see what is your problem here. You'r only problem is that you are developing oneitis for this girl who is yet to prove she is worthy of an LTR commitment.

Start spinning plates (Aka dating other women including this one) and if this broad wants to continue jumping on top of other man's ****s because she is still reeling from the breakup and has the "fvck the world "attitude, then so be it.

 

[SmashB]

I started dating with a new coworker a little over a month now. She is very friendly with everybody and sometimes a little flirty too. Everything went fine since the first date, we get along and we have a lot of fun together. The thing is that she got out of a LTR of 2 years five months ago and she even thought she was going to get married to the guy. She dated a couple of guys before me but said she didn't really liked them, now that she's with me says that she loves being around me, blah blah blah... like a dumbass, I started to treat her really nice too quick; always there for her and everything. Now I realize that she's most likely just using me to get over her ex. We have nothing official, but I do like her. The big red flags are that in front of her friends we just act like well, friends... but in front of my friends she acts like my girl, but I feel like I dont have the right to say anything about it since we're really not official. She does put some effort in seeing me, but most of the time I feel like her friends come first and if it doesnt work out then she wants to go out with me. I'm a classic AFC I guess.

Since we see each other so often and we talk, I'd like to slow that a little otherwise it's going to get boring very quick, but when I do, she asks me why didnt I call her or text her and notices right away. Now I'm trying to turn the tables here. I'm having issues making this change smooth enough that she wont think that I lost interest. Any advice?

Piece of information not included: Did you **** her yet? By you not including it, I am going to assume the answer is no. Yes, start ****ing other women, hard to hear, hard to deal with, and even harder to do! I liked the explanation of how you can observe and gauge her interest levels based on how she acts around people that are close to her, with you of course. Lose interest, move on, find other women and if she really likes you, she WILL try to insert herself into your life.

 

[nerve]

I fail to see what is your problem here. You'r only problem is that you are developing oneitis for this girl who is yet to prove she is worthy of an LTR commitment.

One thing I failed to mention and it might be a factor on why I have a really hard time trusting this girl is that she keeps talking to one of the dudes that she dated, and although she claims she hates the way he is, she keeps texting him and talking to him. I mean, I have nothing against it but the problem is that she says something and does the opposite in this particular case.

Piece of information not included: Did you **** her yet? By you not including it, I am going to assume the answer is no. Yes, start ****ing other women, hard to hear, hard to deal with, and even harder to do! I liked the explanation of how you can observe and gauge her interest levels based on how she acts around people that are close to her, with you of course. Lose interest, move on, find other women and if she really likes you, she WILL try to insert herself into your life.

She usually comes over to my place after work and we do have sex regularly, in fact, she stayed over a few times.

I did miss it on the original post but I did post it later.

 

[SmashB]

One thing I failed to mention and it might be a factor on why I have a really hard time trusting this girl is that she keeps talking to one of the dudes that she dated, and although she claims she hates the way he is, she keeps texting him and talking to him. I mean, I have nothing against it but the problem is that she says something and does the opposite in this particular case.

I don't know, this is a little complicated. Yall aren't really official, you sleep together, she is obviously still in the market for a new wardrobe, but she isn't completely satisfied with how you make her look. What do you want, are you willing to invest time, and energy trying to make this work?

I did miss it on the original post but I did post it later.

Hehe, if I had read a little bit further down I would of saw it, my bad!

 

[DJDamage]

One thing I failed to mention and it might be a factor on why I have a really hard time trusting this girl is that she keeps talking to one of the dudes that she dated, and although she claims she hates the way he is, she keeps texting him and talking to him. I mean, I have nothing against it but the problem is that she says something and does the opposite in this particular case.

That's a clear sign that she is playing the field. Don't think too much ahead with this girl.

 

[jophil28]

One thing I failed to mention and it might be a factor on why I have a really hard time trusting this girl is that she keeps talking to one of the dudes that she dated, and although she claims she hates the way he is, she keeps texting him and talking to him. I mean, I have nothing against it but the problem is that she says something and does the opposite in this particular case.


.

Highly suspicious....texting a guy who she claims she hates?
What does her BEHAVIOR in texting him tell you?
Behavior has its own language.

The problem is that you have higher IL in her than she has in you. She may have said the L word but do your believe it based on her actions?
MY guess is that you have sent her oneitis signals, and she thinks of you as " in the bag" because you are predictable and always available.
You have stopped being a challenge (if you ever were) and her IL is dropping. However you are too valuable to her to let go .
She is your only source of intimacy, BUT she is keeping other guys warmed up on the bench. That means that she owns the frame.

IF I were you I would withdraw a little and start seeing other women. Tell your "love interest" that you want to date others and you are not ready to be exclusive. She will show her hand then .

The problem here is that you have given her exclusivity without her earning it. Female nature will always abuse what is given them without effort on their part.That is why nice guys fail.

 

[jonwon]

A few rules here:

1: Never believe what a women says, instead believe her actions. I.e look to what she does, rather then what she says.

Women will tell you one thing then do the complete opposite. for example texting an ex-bf - Is a large red flag to me. Regardless of what she says, her actions are proving otherwise -

ALWAYS LOOK AT WHAT THEY DO, rather then what they SAY.

Remember that!! Its important, evey man should drill that into his skull.

2: Being too nice to a girl, will turn them off as well has a few other things.

A: It shows they have you, they dont need to 'try to get you' anymore.

There is a saying - Being too nice is almost worse than being a total dic* - it is actually a turn off - It's like your value and your attractiveness takes a nose dive - It seems to lower your sex appeal, it reduces you to something that does not seem attractive. In essence being too nice does not build attraction.


Here is how to turn it around.

1: Don’t be so accommodating.

Go out with your friends, tell her when she calls, your out with your mates tonight - spend at least 50% with your mates or doing your own thing and 50% with her - in actual fact spend 60% doing your own thing and 40% with her.

When she calls and your busy doing anything - tell her 'I’m busy, call me back tomorrow'. It sounds counterproductive, but it actually believe it or not builds attraction.

Women think deeply about this stuff, being too nice, does not get her emotions flowing, being too accommodation does not keep her thinking about you. But doing your own thing and having a life outside her, when you refuse her company, because your busy doing other things, it keeps her thinking about you, you’re in her mind and thoughts - She will also try to create more contact, if you push her away a little.

Women are like cats, yes that's right cats - You give a cat a piece of string it does not go for it, you dangle that string and move it away from the cat, it goes wild - You go to stroke a cat, it moves away, you move away from a cat it comes over to you wanting to be stroked - You push a cat off your lap, it wants to get back on, you pick a cat up to put on your lap, it bites its claws into your jeans.

This is called push/pull.

Being too nice does not create attraction.

The Texting to the Ex-BF.

When she does the texting, simply look like at her like your 'disappointed', hold it for a second or two - then don’t mention it, but make it shown that her value in your eyes is dwindling.

DO NOT give her ultimatums, do not tell her you don’t like it - unless she asks - and when you do tell her, if she asks, you simply state 'I'm not really comfortable with you texting your ex bf, that stuff always ends in tears and I dislike drama with a passion'.

Do not listen to her excuses, stick to your guns - "sorry you won’t change my mind its, the way it is, choice is yours" (meaning if she does not stop you will do some walking of your own).

But hopefully when you show her, your interest is dipping due to her poor behaviour she hopefully will get the message and cut out the texting - But this depends on her 'interest level' - It must be pretty low for her to be doing this in the first place, a girl with high interest simply won’t do these sort of things, especially not in your face. I predict her interest is around 60%, due to your 'too nice' attitude, your chipping away at her attraction level and lowering her interest, hence this is probably why she is texting the ex, in front of you, your 'too nice', she can do no wrong.

Flirting with other guys:

If she flirts with other guys, ideally you should flirt with other girls, but this is not always applicable - If she flirts with other guys - do not orbit her - let he do what she is doing, you go grab a beer, go talk to some mates and leave her to it - But you observe in a subtil manner, you want to see her ACTIONS rather then her words - when she flirts it is a great opportunity to see what type of girl your dating, dont be a fool and let your ego stop you from seeing the type of girl your dating - let her show her true colours, ideally she will come to find you, but if she does not and continues working the guy she is flirting with and your not even on her mind, you have a problem - she is probably not that much into you has you think. We are talking about spending over 15 minutes with a guy, allow your women some freedom - dont control her, let her do her thing, that way you see exactly what type of person your dating and how she feels about you. Worst thing you can do is orbit her and be nice and accomodating, whilst she is flirting with some guy in your face - walk away do you own thing and wait for her to come find you.

Even though I wrote all the above, I doubt you will take notice and put into practice what I wrote, 'nice guys' hardly ever do. If anything you will carry on and hope your 'nice actions' will win the day - They won’t, her P***y is drying up faster and faster and the only way you will keep this chick, is if she does not get the option to branch swing onto a guy who makes her emotions flutter and isn't so dam accommodating.

You have to make a women fight for you, make her work for you - they love it! Even though they will never admit it to themselves.

Reboud girl or not, guys need to take accountability and in your case - your doing all the wrong things, whilst thinking your doing the 'right things' - 'nice guy things!

P.s, its not her attraction level you should be concerned about at this stage, its yours. So far this chick in my book will be hovering around fuc* buddy status unless she started to wise up. The only thing your doing wrong is lowering your value in her eyes, what you should be doing is judging her character, and so far her character is failing - that should be your focus point -

Also I know your too nice, by stating - 'I dont want to show her my interest is lowing' - Stop thinking about 'what she wants' FFS.

 

[nerve]

Even though I wrote all the above, I doubt you will take notice and put into practice what I wrote, 'nice guys' hardly ever do. If anything you will carry on and hope your 'nice actions' will win the day - They won’t, her P***y is drying up faster and faster and the only way you will keep this chick, is if she does not get the option to branch swing onto a guy who makes her emotions flutter and isn't so dam accommodating.

You have to make a women fight for you, make her work for you - they love it! Even though they will never admit it to themselves.

Reboud girl or not, guys need to take accountability and in your case - your doing all the wrong things, whilst thinking your doing the 'right things' - 'nice guy things!

P.s, its not her attraction level you should be concerned about at this stage, its yours. So far this chick in my book will be hovering around fuc* buddy status unless she started to wise up. The only thing your doing wrong is lowering your value in her eyes, what you should be doing is judging her character, and so far her character is failing - that should be your focus point -

Also I know your too nice, by stating - 'I dont want to show her my interest is lowing' - Stop thinking about 'what she wants' FFS.

Thanks, it was really helpful. Although you might think I won't do it all, I have become my own project and I am working on it. It might be hard but I know I can do it. In fact, I'm going to continue posting everything that I change along with her reaction to have like a log and see how it changes. Either I'll get what I'm looking for or I'll learn that it was not what I thought it was.

The same day I wrote the original post I started to change my ways with her. I now don't text her as much and regarding texts and calls I've moved to a 2:1 ratio instead of 1:1 that I had and will be working towards 3:1. It's just a start. I can do it!

 

[jonwon]

Thanks, it was really helpful. Although you might think I won't do it all, I have become my own project and I am working on it. It might be hard but I know I can do it. In fact, I'm going to continue posting everything that I change along with her reaction to have like a log and see how it changes. Either I'll get what I'm looking for or I'll learn that it was not what I thought it was.

The same day I wrote the original post I started to change my ways with her. I now don't text her as much and regarding texts and calls I've moved to a 2:1 ratio instead of 1:1 that I had and will be working towards 3:1. It's just a start. I can do it!

Ok if your determined.

Here are some other things you should be doing.

When you meet her, have plans ready for doing something, anything - be it sat at home with a bottle of wine and some candles lit, or heading out - YOU CHOOSE the venue and what you’re doing.

When she calls you have something planned, NEVER EVER and I mean EVER rely on a women to do the leading - You lead always 100%, always.

You can pick something to do or 2-3 things to do and let her choose from that list, but never do this "What would you like to do", to your women - Always have choices, always lead and always lead the situation, never ask her 'what she wants to do'.

If you’re out with her, don’t make excuses for what you’re doing - for example if you need a toilet break - simply stand up and go to the toilet - simple things like this, that 'too nice' guys will ask for permission of say 'Im going to the toilet' and wait for a reply - just get up and go, say in passing if you must 'Heading to the loo'. (now this is an example of how you act in a situation but try to do this with all things you do).

Always do the leading - when your walking with her, walk infront - try to stay infront where your leading her to the destination, I don’t care if your just walking to the bar or walking to the shop, you lead - Try not to make it so she is walking infront -

Subtile things like this - will help ramp up the attraction.

If she texts you something mundane that does not need a reply - don’t reply - if she texts with a question, reply back but don’t be see keen to reply - do it when your ready - i.e don’t drop your shi* to reply to her everytime she sends you a text. I.e if your in the bath, stay in the bath - even if it takes an hour - don’t apologise for that fact also.


Other tips -

Dont be so fast to laugth at her jokes, if she says something unfunny, just look at her like 'That was cra*'

If she does something stupid, i.e says something stupid, laught at her and I really mean this I REALLY MEAN THIS - If she does something dumb, take the pis* out of her in a fun way - for example if she is blonde and she does something dumb you say 'Lol your so blonde' - or 'You cant help being female'. This really builds attraction, you dont want to insult her, but you want to play with her and mocking them when they deserve to be mocked (like you would do with a male friend) builds attraction - to a nice guy this seems wrong, but it is so 'right' - Its actually one of the best things you can do.

DO not compliment her for the sake of complimenting her - only compliment her when she does something good for you or makes an effort to look good for you - Do not compliment for the sake of manipulation, women see through that shi* from a mile away and it lowers your value and attraction - complimenting her when she does something of note, is what she is after not compliments that are loaded.

Never complain around her, if your work is shi* - save it for your mates - always try to be postive, do not be negative - you can mock others (women love that s**t), but dont be hung up on your life - it turns women off like nothing else - Actually try to be the opposite - Be positive, be high energy.

Remember these rules:

1: Always lead.
2: Dont manpulate with compliments
3: Dont make excuses for what your doing
4: Remember to live your own life too - be it computer games or mates, do your own thing as much if not more then doing your thing with her.
5: Dont supplicate
6: Have fun - try to be 100% positive, do not load all your problems on her - You dont have ANY! even if you do, keep them from her - your a man you can handle that shi*.

 

[Mr. Me]

>> I now don't text her as much and regarding texts and calls I've moved to a 2:1 ratio instead of 1:1 that I had and will be working towards 3:1. It's just a start. I can do it! >>

Good!

Also, get more numbers.

>> That's a clear sign that she is playing the field. >>

Ditto. Double Ditto. And it also means she can take or leave you. You're not Numero Uno and probably won't be. The fact that she's mentioned that she's talking to other guys is in itself evidence that she doesn't care that much about you. When a woman cares, she won't mention other men, lest she turns you off, you see? An interested woman wouldn't chance that. Not that, when she cares, she'd be in contact with other guys, but if she were and it was innocent, she'd still want you to be assured that she's not interested in them, worrying that this may have you leave her (although this constitutes another topic: "When She Claims He's Just A Friend: How To Tell When He's More Then Just A Friend").

 

[nerve]

Update. Its been a few days and I've changed the way I acted. I don't really call her anymore more than just maybe when I tell her that I will. At first it worked great, she kept texting and calling and asking me if everything was ok. I told her that everything was fine and I kept acting the same way (the new way). After a couple of days it seems that she's loosing interest though, I think its too early to tell but this might not be heading the way I wanted it. She still says the L word every now and then and even asked me why I never told her the L word other than to say it back when she said it first. I'm confused at this point, it has is ups and downs in mood.