Help the Beginner out!

[Driver]

Hi guys! I've been lurking here for a bit (used to have an account here sometime back, but it's time for me to make a fresh start) and I've decided that it's time for me to start my exercise regimen.

(I posted this a short while ago, but it didn't show up. Weird.)

Anyways, I've always been quite a skinny guy and I've decided that enough is enough. Luckily for me, my university has a well-equipped gym, so it seems that this is my chance to put on some muscle!

I will be following this plan: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125444 (Effort's 'Where to Start')

This is the first time I'm doing this so I have many questions, but I've narrowed it down to three questions (if you can't be bothered, just ansewr the last one):

1. Is this a good schedule/plan for me? This was the most complete guide for beginners I found.

2. How strict do I have to stick with my diet? Can I let a couple of meals slip by (eat fast food) per week as long as I eat healthy for everything else?

3. How do I know if I'm getting enough protein, etc.? The 2g of protein per lb routine sounds like a pain to calculate and I know I won't be able to keep it up for more than a couple of days. Any other guidelines?

I start next Monday, so any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


EDIT: This is really messed up. How come my posts only appear hours after I originally posted?

 

[The Inside Man]

Hi I'm a long time lurker too, just registered earlier tonight. I've been doing different forms of lifting for about 7 years so let me see if I can help you out.

I didn't look over the routine but try to do compound exercises as the focal point of your workouts, start working out at least 2-3 times a week and no more than 4 starting out. In 3 weeks your body will use up all available muscle fiber, and you will notice a strength increase. After that, new muscle fibers will be recruited and you will begin your transformation. WHile it is not a save-all, a buff toned up bod is a definite asset in pu.

Having a cheat day or a few meals once a week is fine. The main thing in diet and workout is CONSISTENCY. This is the most important part of gaining and maintaining muscle. I haven't lifted hard in 6 months, and just started back at the gym this week. But since I have consistently lifted for years before that, I still have a good amount of muscle mass on me. I am about 5-11 180lbs, gained 40 lbs.
I have reached my ideal weight and am now just going for strength and conditioning. Remember, it is going to be tough, and you will get sore, but do not give up. Be consistent, and you will see consistent results. You should alternate new workouts every 6-8 weeks to shock the system.

Don't go crazy with measuring out grams and etc..just eat good whole natural foods, 5-6 meals a day, including some protein shakes. I like to start and end the day with protein shakes but rely on whole food for most of your nutrition intake. Work hard!

 

[Throttle]

1. Is this a good schedule/plan for me? This was the most complete guide for beginners I found.

yes. it is the sort of plan that gives results to anyone who takes it seriously, and in measure with how seriously you take it. if you're looking for a more in-depth beginner's guide, you can hardly go wrong with Rippetoe's book "Starting Strength." but sounds like you need to stop reading and go to it.

2. How strict do I have to stick with my diet? Can I let a couple of meals slip by (eat fast food) per week as long as I eat healthy for everything else?

since results primarily come from your diet, not your routine, your results will be in measure with how close you stick to your plan. For a skinny guy, you can probably get away with eating fast food at times, but if you know you're going to indulge, you've got to include it in your overall plan. Anything else is self-delusion.

3. How do I know if I'm getting enough protein, etc.? The 2g of protein per lb routine sounds like a pain to calculate and I know I won't be able to keep it up for more than a couple of days. Any other guidelines?

best approach? break that up into how much protein you need per sitting, across the number of meals you're planning on getting, then get used to how much of certain kinds of food it takes to get that.

let's say you're planning to average 5 meals a day. that's .4g/lb of bodyweight in protein at each meal. so if you're 150lbs, that's 60g of protein per sitting. figure out what protein sources you like to eat (beef, chicken, eggs, etc) and figure out how much of that is 60g.

obviously it's more complicated b/c you're going to subtract out whey, etc. anyway, the point is that with a bit o' planning you only need to run these calculations once, and then it's on autopilot (which helps keep you on track!)

 

[Driver]

Thanks, The Inside Man and Throttle, that really clears things up!

I'm really looking forward to starting this, it will be hard, but damnit, I'm going to succeed!



EDIT: I think I'm getting ahead of myself:

DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
... ... ...

This means I do how many squats? Two reps, five times?
Also, how much weight should I use?

 

[The Inside Man]

no, the opposite, two sets of 5 times each. Be VERY careful when starting to squat, it's actually a great idea to get a personal trainer for an hour ago to go over the finer points of squatting form, or try "box squats". They can be hard on your knees if you do not do them right AND ALSO if you do not do enough for the backside of the leg so it develops equally(hamstring). I have had two knee surgeries so I dont squat anymore, have also had IT band (tendon in the thigh) problems from squatting. Just balance it out, start slow and light , find someone to demonstrate proper form, preferably a powerlifter. Good luck in your journey!

PS remember to stretch hamstrings quads calves and hip flexors before and after squatting!!!

 

[Quagmire911]

There's something about static or dynamic stretching that means you aren't meant to do it before lifitng. I think it is static.

As for squatting technique, start of with just the bar on its own until you are confident about technique. Squat as low as you can, ass to grass is the terminology used here. DO NOT STOP AT PARALLEL. Once you start adding weight and hitting PR's then you can add in warm up sets before your worksets.

Here are some articles to help you out:

http://stronglifts.com/21-tips-to-improve-your-squatting-technique-avoid-injury/
http://stronglifts.com/how-you-can-avoid-knee-injuries-from-squatting/

Warm-ups, for when you start going heavy:

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3404

Good luck and start a journal so we can give you more help when it is needed,

Quagmire

 

[The Inside Man]

It's always a good idea to do warm up sets before any workout, especially a heavy exercise like squats that calls on many muscle groups. Go lower than parallel...if you like having ****ty ****ed up knees. Trust me on that, or better yet, ask any physical therapist who has sees new blown out knees every week. Good squat form is also something that should be demonstrated, not something you can learn over the internet. I could see maybe not stretching before, but either way, not stretching is a recipe for disaster, torn ligaments, hammies, etc.

 

[Frink']

The best thing you can do is to join a powerlifting club. I've never met nicer people than (first impression) huge big scarry strong and intimidaing powerlifters

 

[Quagmire911]

Go lower than parallel...if you like having ****ty ****ed up knees. Trust me on that, or better yet, ask any physical therapist who has sees new blown out knees every week.

What a load of s***. I can provide bloody good evidence to contradict what you have said. Here it is :

From Iron Addicts:

http://www.ironaddicts.com/Benifits of deep squatting on knees.html

I wonder why one of the best trainers would have that in the articles section of his site?

Here is a guy that is a lot stronger and more experienced than you doing 600+ ass to grass no belts, wraps anything-completley RAW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpA47OUohpM

Why would he do that?

Please do not spread this misinformation again. Thanks.

Quagmire

 

[The Inside Man]

A load of ****? I think not...I have had these injuries, personally. And while I never squatted 600, I used to rep 315. And because a couple of freaks with perfect form can get away with it, does not mean everyone else can without injury. After my first knee surgery, my physical therapist said to never go below a quarter squat. After my second surgery(not related to squatting), he said that I can't squat again, at all. My wrestling coach, a nationally ranked wrestler AND powerlifter, blew out both of his knees and had 2 hernia operations.

Quagmire, I know you're enthusiastic about bodybuilding and researching articles, but I'm not talking about a website, I'm talking about my flesh and blood and I have personally injured myself from going too low and heavy on squats. So have MANY other people, just because it hasn't happened to you in your 5 months bodybuilding career doesn't mean it can't happen to others.

One last point: Is there a difference in someone who looks like a roided up gorilla and squats 600lbs and someone just starting out with no knowledge of how to properly do a squat?

Not saying it isn't possible, but the risks of going those few degrees below parallel far outweigh the limited number of additional muscle fibers recruited. Have a few knee surgeries and come talk to me:wave:

Also, looking at your workout journal, I was at your weight and strength about 8 years ago...I have some room to talk. What do brits know about bodybuilding anyway?

 

[Warboss Alex]

edited

go and study powerlifting or oly squatting form, you'll find it's below parallel. entire sports devoted to squatting below parallel are a significantly better testimonial than a doctor who advocates quarter squats (which shows just how much HE knows about sports science)

 

[Throttle]

"too low and too heavy"...there's a simple solution to that. when you go below parallel, back way the hell off the weight -- you'll have to, and viola! problem solved. if you're used to quarter-squatting lots of weight, then try to take that poundage down all the way, that's when things start going haywire.

humility + deep squats > > ego-inflating poundage on quarter squats

 

[Quagmire911]

A load of ****? I think not...I have had these injuries, personally. And while I never squatted 600, I used to rep 315. And because a couple of freaks with perfect form can get away with it, does not mean everyone else can without injury. After my first knee surgery, my physical therapist said to never go below a quarter squat. After my second surgery(not related to squatting), he said that I can't squat again, at all. My wrestling coach, a nationally ranked wrestler AND powerlifter, blew out both of his knees and had 2 hernia operations.

Quagmire, I know you're enthusiastic about bodybuilding and researching articles, but I'm not talking about a website, I'm talking about my flesh and blood and I have personally injured myself from going too low and heavy on squats. So have MANY other people, just because it hasn't happened to you in your 5 months bodybuilding career doesn't mean it can't happen to others.

One last point: Is there a difference in someone who looks like a roided up gorilla and squats 600lbs and someone just starting out with no knowledge of how to properly do a squat?

Not saying it isn't possible, but the risks of going those few degrees below parallel far outweigh the limited number of additional muscle fibers recruited. Have a few knee surgeries and come talk to me:wave:

Also, looking at your workout journal, I was at your weight and strength about 8 years ago...I have some room to talk. What do brits know about bodybuilding anyway?

You will have used to much weight to soon. I am sorry but this isn't about how much either of us can lift, it is about what is right and what is wrong.

If you are too injured to squat that is a different matter entirely. However the evidence is against what you say.

Also that "roided up gorilla" is Francis Tournefier who was a French olympic lifter, he know's what is right and what is wrong-you plainly do not.

Quagmire

Ps.-If you are making it personal, take a look at Throttle and Warboss. I reckon both have squatted at least double what I have, but of course they are wrong as well.

 

[mrRuckus]

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/power-lifting/squat-332299.html

ask any physical therapist who has sees new blown out knees every week.

And who never sees the other millions who don't blow their knees out. Talk about a biased sample.

 

[The Inside Man]

Yes I know, obviously that people go past parallel and are fine. But advocating that to a beginner that has never squatted before is not good advice IMO. And I do know a good amount of people who have injured themselves squatting, with proper form. I used to do deep, below parallel squats so I do like them, but there is a risk of serious injury, that I feel is not worth it. I don't do any kind of squats anymore, but bodyweight exercises and mountain biking to maintain my legs. I have less back pain now too. I pulled my IT band, friends have slipped discs, as I said my coach blew out both his knees with 2 hernias as well..injuries do happen a lot in powerlifting, just trying to caution the beginner.

 

[The Inside Man]

"too low and too heavy"...there's a simple solution to that. when you go below parallel, back way the hell off the weight -- you'll have to, and viola! problem solved. if you're used to quarter-squatting lots of weight, then try to take that poundage down all the way, that's when things start going haywire.

humility + deep squats > > ego-inflating poundage on quarter squats

I only did quarter squats after advised to do so by a doctor, after my first knee surgery, after years of deep squatting. I trained under a ranked powerlifter so trust me I got my deep squats in over the years. No **** you use less weight when you're not quarter squatting, I'm not trying to brag about quarter squatting it was what my therapist told me I could still do after having parts of my knee taken out.

The question is. how will the beginner know what is too low or too heavy until he's got his ass to the floor and can't push back up? This is why I advocate gradually getting used to squatting with someone to show proper form.

 

[Quagmire911]

Going to parallel is the worst I believe. You either go above or below, preferably below.

As for beginning squaters, Dave Tate points out in his box squatting article it can be a great help to beginners as they don't have to fiddle around-just stick them on a box and they'll be doing it correctly within 5 minutes. That way you can set the box 2-3" below parallel and hit the same depth every time.

There are risks with everything in life. There was a study done that showed weightlifting actually has far less injuries in the general population when compared with things like rugby, football, ice hockey etc. It is better in my opinion to experience life and be an injury riddled old man (granted-preferably not), than to look back when you are in a nursing home in your 80's pissing yourself, remembering with regret that you have not had a fulfilling life. And I don't know about you but it feels bloody damned good having that weight crushing down upon me and using every ounce of my will to fight against it. If anyone else is too scared to have at it, they can piss off back to their curls ( but not in the freakin rack :nono: ).

Rant over.

Quagmire

 

[The Inside Man]

Okay, 150lb weightlifting maniac, my bad. Oh by the way I have lived your little tough guy quote. Chest surgery, 2 knee surgeries, broken ankle, ribs, fingers, toes, screws in my jaw and too many scars to count. But I do agree with it.

However it's one thing to say that when you haven't had the crutches, the rehab, the painkillers(wait thats the good part), the broken body parts. Nice philosophy though hope it holds up for you.
My coach's kneecap dislocates every time he gets out of bed causing him to go through excruciating pain and have someone else hold his leg while he sets it. So that's when that tough talk actually becomes applied to your life. THEN see if you want to go lift(he still does).
I will be an injury, arthritis riddled old man, and I don't care. Too scared? hah. I wouldn't have had this many injuries if I was scared of lifting or contact sports.

Oh and I recommended the box squats in my first or second post. good luck to the OP don't do heavy squats starting off :rock:


<<As for beginning squaters, Dave Tate points out in his box squatting article it can be a great help to beginners as they don't have to fiddle around-just stick them on a box and they'll be doing it correctly within 5 minutes. That way you can set the box 2-3" below parallel and hit the same depth every time.

There are risks with everything in life. There was a study done that showed weightlifting actually has far less injuries in the general population when compared with things like rugby, football, ice hockey etc. It is better in my opinion to experience life and be an injury riddled old man (granted-preferably not), than to look back when you are in a nursing home in your 80's pissing yourself, remembering with regret that you have not had a fulfilling life. And I don't know about you but it feels bloody damned good having that weight crushing down upon me and using every ounce of my will to fight against it. If anyone else is too scared to have at it, they can piss off back to their curls ( but not in the freakin rack ).>>

 

[Quagmire911]

Where did the rest of my weight go

Theres a difference in pushing your maxes and then theres being silly about it. Theres also having good form, and having crappy form.

I amen't going to argue on this anymore, theres what is right and what is wrong and I'm leaving it at that. I have provided enough evidence.

Quagmire

 

[stronglifts]

I only did quarter squats after advised to do so by a doctor, after my first knee surgery, after years of deep squatting. I trained under a ranked powerlifter so trust me I got my deep squats in over the years. No **** you use less weight when you're not quarter squatting, I'm not trying to brag about quarter squatting it was what my therapist told me I could still do after having parts of my knee taken out.

The question is. how will the beginner know what is too low or too heavy until he's got his ass to the floor and can't push back up? This is why I advocate gradually getting used to squatting with someone to show proper form.

Going too low can lead to injury in the sacrum. But because most people have flexibility issue, they struggle to go lower than parallel to start with. So to a lot of people the advise is just to go low. I'm more than happy when I see them break parallel which is not easy for a lot of people.

Knee injuries. Always happen for the same reason. The knee is made for stability. If the ankle or hip joint lacks mobility, the knee will have to overcompensate mobility. But because the knee is made for stability & not mobility, it gets injured.

Bottom line: if you experience knee pain:
-stop the quarter/half squats
-check your technique, knees out, push from the heels, don't bounce at the bottom, etc
-check ankle & hip mobility

The squat doesn't get you knee injuries. 1 million weightlifters worldwide are doing deep olympic squats without any knee pain. If you get an injury from squats, you either did them wrong or you had a pre-existing problem.