Health Rollercoaster, how am I doing?

[ithero]

Hey guys,
I've been lurking these forums for a while, but never posted. I finally decided to register and here is my first thread.

Back in High School I was 6'2 about 190...a little bit overweight and not really a DJ by any means.

College came around and after 2 years of eating cafeteria food / fast food and being really lazy I was up to 215 and looking pretty bad.

This year I moved off campus, and since I wouldn't be near the cafeteria all the day and I wouldn't have an alotment of food money separate from my normal money, I had to make the choice between cooking and getting take out everyday. I had never been much of a real chef, but I figured cooking would be the cheaper way to go.

Without even trying or thinking about it or realizing it - a few months went by and people started noticing and mentioning to me that I had lost weight.

I checked the scale and now I'm down to about 185, and feeling better than ever. I take a multivitamin about 5 days a week (not sure if these actually help?), and I cook my own food on the foreman grill. I started getting noticed by women again, and this positive feedback has sort of encouraged me improve even more. So I've been working out every monday/wednesday/friday for about 45 minutes each day.

So my question is - given these circumstances:

1. 6'2 185 (this is without even working out)

2. Workout 3 times a week (usually just pick random machines that are free and do about 4 sets of 10 reps on it at the highest possible weight I can manage)

3. Cook food everyday - usually either seasoned chicken breast or shrimp with pasta in tomato sauce

With this goal in mind:

1. Gaining muscle (I've never really had much muscle to speak of in my whole life)

2. Possibly losing a little bit more fat (I'm at a respectable weight right now, but losing a little more body fat couldn't hurt)

What should I focus on? Am I eating right/wrong? Should I work certain machines more than others? (I am not familiar with the technical terms)

Thanks any help would be appreciated.

 

[ithero]

Forgot to mention:

Another big change I made was that instead of drinking 5 or 6 bottles of soda/snapple per day, I now only drink water (I refill plastic poland spring bottles with brita filtered water).

Now the only time I drink non-water drinks is on weekends where I'll drink either light beer or rarely mixed drinks (grape juice/vodka, coke and rum, etc).

Edit:

One more thing - doing this has totally eliminated the acne problems that had plagued me very badly in previous years.

 

[Shiftkey]

Good job on the fatloss. 30 lbs is very impressive - not many people can do that.

Originally posted by ithero
Forgot to mention:

Another big change I made was that instead of drinking 5 or 6 bottles of soda/snapple per day, I now only drink water (I refill plastic poland spring bottles with brita filtered water).

Now the only time I drink non-water drinks is on weekends where I'll drink either light beer or rarely mixed drinks (grape juice/vodka, coke and rum, etc).

Edit:

One more thing - doing this has totally eliminated the acne problems that had plagued me very badly in previous years.

That makes two of us. Replacing soda and other junk drinks with water can make a HUGE difference in your overall health and appearance.

What should I focus on?

You're going to need to make a choice between cutting (fat loss) and bulking (building muscle). It's hard to do both at the same time. Sometimes beginners can pull it off to a point, but if you've already been working out for a while I doubt you'll experience this much. You've already lost a lot of fat, so maybe you'd prefer to mix it up with some bulking? You should find lots of guides if you do a search. DEISEL's is good, but some people prefer others. After a few months of bulking, go back to cutting for a few months, and keep switching.

Should I work certain machines more than others?

Use as few machines as possible. Free weights are always going to be better.

 

[ithero]

Thanks for the tips.


What about a diet high in Shrimp, Chicken Breast, and Pasta? I also have whey protein on occassion.

 

[Shiftkey]

If you like those foods, sounds great. Try not to have too much pasta (or other carbs) at night.

 

[Warboss Alex]

You're going to need to make a choice between cutting (fat loss) and bulking (building muscle). It's hard to do both at the same time. Sometimes beginners can pull it off to a point, but if you've already been working out for a while I doubt you'll experience this much.

Beginners and advanced trainees can pull this off very successfully, it's all a matter of patience and consistency.

ithero - I'd suggest not worrying about your bodyfat anymore, you've done GREAT so far but it's time to put some meat on your bones. You don't even have to put an ounce of fat on while gaining quality muscle if you're careful and sensible.

What's this everyone's got against machines? If you work your way up to 150kg on the chest press machine your pecs are surely gonna be bigger.

 

[ithero]

Thanks for the tips guys - I really don't eat that much pasta actually, and when I do its definitely not late at night.....probably about 7 hours before I go to sleep.

I've also been limiting myself to "fast food" once a week...in which case - which would be the lesser of two evils for that one meal:

1) Taco Bell - 3 double deckers

2) Half a pizza (no toppings) over the course of a day

Or do you think that having this one fast food per week could be setting me back A LOT? (IE completely offsetting 3 days of eatting healthy and working out)

Also, the weird thing for me is that the 30 pounds seemed to come off my body in a matter of a couple months without me even making a conscious effort for it. I'm not complaining - just saying I think that means if I actually put in some effort I can do even better.

 

[Shiftkey]

Fast food once a week is fine. If you completely cut out junk food, you're more likely to go on a binge. Try to choose things that aren't fried and don't have tons of cheese or mayo.

 

[Shiftkey]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Beginners and advanced trainees can pull this off very successfully, it's all a matter of patience and consistency.

And how does this work exactly? To lose weight you take in less calories than you spend. To gain weight you take in more calories than you spend. The best I can see someone pull of something in the middle is gaining muscle and no fat, but not LOSING fat at the same time as gaining muscle. Some people I'm sure can pull it off with good genes (or juice), but for the rest of us it's a waste of time.

What's this everyone's got against machines? If you work your way up to 150kg on the chest press machine your pecs are surely gonna be bigger.

They're not compound exercises. Take that same guy off the machine and put him on a normal bench and he won't come close to that number. A guy that went upto 150kg on the regular bench is going to have bigger muscles also.

 

[Warboss Alex]

It's not as black and white as calories in/calories out/24hr time periods/three meals at 2000kcal each the same as six meals at 1000kcal each - that's the way you're thinking and to a point it's sound but when you consider among other things, that not all calories are equal, anabolic/catabolic periods in a certain timespa, timing in general and nutrient partitioning (and the concept of a human blast furnace/food processor), you can see it's perfectly possible.

I'm not gonna try and sell it to you, but it works fine for me (and plenty others, with average or even below average genetics). 90% of the people on this board will be able to pull it off well, 5% will be able to pull it off extremely well and 5% will have trouble with it - as with all things regarding nutrition and exercise. And no, I'm not suggesting you can stay onion-skin shredded and pack on globs of muscle at an alarming rate, but at a steady pace you can add lean tissue and shed bodyfat, it can be done.

Likewise, I'm not gonna try and change your view of machines either. Again to an extent you're right, they're less compound than the equivalent in free weights but I assure you, if you go from 50kg to 150kg on say a hammer strength chest press, you're gonna have a bigger chest - regardless of the machine's carryover to other exercises (i.e. as you say, you won't be able to bench 150kg simply because it's a different movement - but the same guy will be able to bench more than he did pre-machine press). But progress is progress, strength gain is strength gain, back it up with protein and it'll become a size gain - not that I'm recommending that people do machine-only workouts of course, but they can still make you grow.

 

[Shiftkey]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
I'm not gonna try and sell it to you, but it works fine for me (and plenty others, with average or even below average genetics). 90% of the people on this board will be able to pull it off well, 5% will be able to pull it off extremely well and 5% will have trouble with it - as with all things regarding nutrition and exercise. And no, I'm not suggesting you can stay onion-skin shredded and pack on globs of muscle at an alarming rate, but at a steady pace you can add lean tissue and shed bodyfat, it can be done.

I'm already sold if you're that confident about it. What system do you use?

Likewise, I'm not gonna try and change your view of machines either. Again to an extent you're right, they're less compound than the equivalent in free weights but I assure you, if you go from 50kg to 150kg on say a hammer strength chest press, you're gonna have a bigger chest - regardless of the machine's carryover to other exercises (i.e. as you say, you won't be able to bench 150kg simply because it's a different movement - but the same guy will be able to bench more than he did pre-machine press). But progress is progress, strength gain is strength gain, back it up with protein and it'll become a size gain - not that I'm recommending that people do machine-only workouts of course, but they can still make you grow.

I never said you can't make gains with machines. I just think it's much more efficient to use free weights. If you have access to both machines and free weights, and free weights will build muscle quicker, that is why machines are a waste of time.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I do DC training but that's not the point - it's not your routine which'll get you losing fat and gaining muscle, it's your diet..

 

[ithero]

For example if I have a low carb, low fat, high protein, fiber, and nutrient diet I might be able to lose fat while still toning/building muscle?

Edit: Assuming it is backed up with a good routine.

Edit again: So I do some cardio once a week (3 hours). For me it is Ping Pong (Table Tennis). Yea yea people picture playing in your basement with a friend and not breaking a sweat. This is not what I mean. Picture more along the line of Forest Gump style (yea I'm not quite that good yet) downing a couple bottles of water and needing a towel to wipe the sweat from all parts of my body.

Will this help or hurt me in my goals? Its not on the same day as a workout day for me, should I have a different diet on the days where I do cardio? (IE consume carbs instead of protein?)

 

[Shiftkey]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
I do DC training but that's not the point - it's not your routine which'll get you losing fat and gaining muscle, it's your diet..

Right, so what's the diet like that will get 95% of this board gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time?

 

[Shiftkey]

Originally posted by ithero
For example if I have a low carb, low fat, high protein, fiber, and nutrient diet I might be able to lose fat while still toning/building muscle?

Edit: Assuming it is backed up with a good routine.

I try to eat 40% protien, 30% carbs, 30% fat (as much of this unsaturated as possible) over 6 small meals a day. If I want to bulk I eat more caleries. If I want to cut I eat less caleries.

Edit again: So I do some cardio once a week (3 hours). For me it is Ping Pong (Table Tennis). Yea yea people picture playing in your basement with a friend and not breaking a sweat. This is not what I mean. Picture more along the line of Forest Gump style (yea I'm not quite that good yet) downing a couple bottles of water and needing a towel to wipe the sweat from all parts of my body.

Will this help or hurt me in my goals? Its not on the same day as a workout day for me, should I have a different diet on the days where I do cardio? (IE consume carbs instead of protein?)

Cardio speeds up the metabolism, which makes it more difficult to bulk, but easier to cut. Going along with what I said earlier, logically if you want to bulk you should stop the cardio. If you want to cut, I'd recommend increasing to 3+ days a week. If you do something more intense, like jogging, or basketball, or martial arts, 30-60 minutes per session should be fine.

Warboss might have some better ideas though, if you can cut and bulk at the same time.

I wouldn't make any special changes to your diet on cardio days. I've had great results with ECA, if you want to do some research on it.

Whether or not you are bulking you should do some heavy lifting 3 days a week. I recommend drinking 400g of dextrose or maltodextrin immediently after weightlifting in addition to your regular diet. You can find it in powder form at GNC or similar stores (IE Ultra Fuel).

 

[ithero]

Shiftkey and Warboss Alex:

Thanks for all the tips here.

I've been in the gym trying to do both machines and free weights.

My main problem is with freeweights I just feel awkward. For example, I'll be laying back diagonally and trying to lift them above my head and one arm will go up first and it will not be steady. This is even with low weight on it. I'm thinking about purchasing 15 or 20 pound weights and just doing as much as I can at home so I don't waste time while I'm at the gym.

 

[Shiftkey]

That's exactly what's so great about free weights. You're working all of those stabilizing muscles as well as the primary movers. If you put stress to more muscles, you can grow much more and much quicker.

Don't be ashamed to lift less weight. Everyone starts somewhere, and the other guys in the gym are usually too busy with their own reutines to notice you. Also remember that if you try to lift too much more than you're able, you have a greater risk of injury and you're going to benefit less from the exercise because you're doing it incorrectly. Every rep should be done slowly and deliberately.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Cardio speeds up the metabolism, which makes it more difficult to bulk

If cardio (by which I mean low intensity cardio, not all out sprints) is hindering your gains then you don't need it.

4-5 times a week cardio at 30-45 mins each should do nothing to hinder muscle growth unless you're an ectomorph - mesos and endos simply aren't eating enough if they're not gaining.

Shiftkey, the diet to lose fat/gain muscle at the same time is nothing magical, it's just a high-calorie clean diet with no or very few cheat meals, enough cardio to significantly tap into bodyfat stores and enough heavy lifting to make the body grow. It's a very simple concept - but people aren't willing to accept it because a) it's slower than the traditional bulking/cutting and kids want things by yesterday, aren't willing to be patient, and b) they bring up the calories-in/calories-out argument.

 

[stevera004]

Originally posted by ithero
Thanks for the tips guys - I really don't eat that much pasta actually, and when I do its definitely not late at night.....probably about 7 hours before I go to sleep.

I've also been limiting myself to "fast food" once a week...in which case - which would be the lesser of two evils for that one meal:

1) Taco Bell - 3 double deckers

2) Half a pizza (no toppings) over the course of a day

Or do you think that having this one fast food per week could be setting me back A LOT? (IE completely offsetting 3 days of eatting healthy and working out)

Also, the weird thing for me is that the 30 pounds seemed to come off my body in a matter of a couple months without me even making a conscious effort for it. I'm not complaining - just saying I think that means if I actually put in some effort I can do even better.

Props. Your 6 or so cans of pop a day were approx. 1000 calories PER DAY OF PURE SUGAR. Thus you have reduced (by just this 1 change) 7000 calories per week or food energy. There are around 3500 calories of energy in a pound of fat. This is approx. 2 pounds of fat per week, 8 pounds per month ... approximately 30 pounds in 'a couple of months'.

Again kudos. I truly think soda is the #1 cause of fatties in the US, since it is so easy to consume large amounts of it and just not notice. It is harder (not impossible, but harder) to eat real food and not notice 1000 calories surplus per day.