Hate my degree, going back to school for IT. Advice?

[Jaylan]

^Are you reading my responses at all? I have already said making money wasnt my primary concern. Enjoying what I do and having passion for my work is my main concern.

I know getting certs costs money and takes time....hence why Im saving now to get a couple of entry level certs before school or during my first semester. And I will also be working the whole time Im in school.

You keep making this an either-or thing. Im not simply going to have a degree. Im going to stand out by having a relevant degree and certifications. No way I need $5k to get relevant certs in order to get my feet wet. The entry level certs are not that expensive, and there are also vouchers and other things that can help me reduce the cost. And if I absolutely have to, Ill use refunded loan money to pay for expensive certs.

I thank an earlier posters for sending me to the techexams forum too.

And you can naysay it all you like, but the programs Im trying to get into pair students with good companies for their internship. Thats experience right there and a possible foot in the door. That helps as well as my going out and looking for entry level stuff on my own time.

The idea that this networking is all about "sales reps and IT personnel" is not what Im seeing, nor what Ive been told from my friends who work IT in the same city. But its all good. I think you just need to actually sit and read what Im saying work for word.

I WILL study for certs while doing well in school. School is merely a way to get decent education and open doors through networking and internships. Its way better than dealing with the crap I am now and trying to do this all on my own while in a far away suburb.

 

[Jaylan]

Has there ever been a jaylan thread that didnt devolve into whining and crying because Jaylans feelings got hurt? Jaylan, men speak harshly and no one is going to walk on eggshells around you, get control of your emotions and be a man.

You can get an IT Masters degree if you have a BA, so why waste money as an undergrad just to get ONE internship? I too have thought abouy the IT route and Im constantly told "do not waste time in school, but if you do then get the MS."

Actually, no I cannot. None of the programs in my area will accept me into a masters program without a relevant undergrad degree. And thats actually a good thing because I want to have a foundation established before jumping a Masters level program.

Itd be dumb of a program to accept students who had undergrad education that left them unprepared for programming, security and administration courses. For the most part my business degree knocked out all the gen. eds, management, and accounting courses....but I still don't have anywhere near the relevant computer education that's needed for acceptance to any computer related . or even reputable ones online.

And I likely wont go for an MS. I will get an undergrad and certs, and see where that takes me.

 

[logicallefty]

I have a lot of years under my belt in IT.

All I can say is do your homework before picking a place to work in IT. If you find the right place it can be one of the best and most rewarding things.

But if you end up somewhere like this, it will be the worst nightmare of your life. Just read this below and it says 95% of what I would say to you

http://www.killingmycareer.com/the-sociopathic-business-model/


I will also add to negotiate your pay carefully. Getting a raise in IT is tough. One job I had I didn't get a raise for 5 years. My current job gives me a raise every year that amounts to about $60 more a month take home pay. Hardly anything in the Obama economy where the price of everything rises exponentially all the time.

Also, don't end up like I did years ago making $40,000/year working with people who were making $95,000/yr and calling me in the middle of the night to solve their problems when they couldn't figure sh|t out. You want to talk about frustration to the infinite degree.......

 

[Jaylan]

University of Maryland University College, online MS. My friend dropped out of law school, did this(with only a social science background), now makes 125k. He told me just get the certs though(granted I have a professional degree).

Ill check that out. Hopefully it wont break the bank.

Tbh, I would really like a MS over another BS, because my parents have an MS and JD....so I kinda wanna live up to that example.

I have a lot of years under my belt in IT.

All I can say is do your homework before picking a place to work in IT. If you find the right place it can be one of the best and most rewarding things.

But if you end up somewhere like this, it will be the worst nightmare of your life. Just read this below and it says 95% of what I would say to you

http://www.killingmycareer.com/the-sociopathic-business-model/


I will also add to negotiate your pay carefully. Getting a raise in IT is tough. One job I had I didn't get a raise for 5 years. My current job gives me a raise every year that amounts to about $60 more a month take home pay. Hardly anything in the Obama economy where the price of everything rises exponentially all the time.

Also, don't end up like I did years ago making $40,000/year working with people who were making $95,000/yr and calling me in the middle of the night to solve their problems when they couldn't figure sh|t out. You want to talk about frustration to the infinite degree.......

Do you suggest anything school wise or program wise? Would you recommend any particular place?

Also, what certs should I attack first aside from A+ and Network+?

 

[Jaylan]

http://www.umuc.edu/academic-programs/masters-degrees/information-technology.cfm

Thanks Purple. This program looks very good and the price is great too! I love all the available specializations and the course progression. The brick and mortar schools in my area really only have 4 specializations at most. Its good that students have options with this Maryland program. Im gonna do a lot more research on MS programs, but this one looks really good so far.

EDIT: Found these lists for nonprofit online schools. Im gonna use this as a guide, as I really would rather go the nonprofit route, as itll add credibility to my online degree. Ive read a lot about HR having bias against for profit schools that are mainly online colleges. Something for me to think on.

http://www.guidetoonlineschools.com/online-schools/non-profit

http://www.cbs8.com/story/26723083/...-in-education-putting-students-before-profits

 

[The411]

Negotiating your pay is tough in IT. There are many entry level applicants and to few specialized applicants. I started my IT career in a very VERY rural part of a huge state. It took me a year doing sales to enter a much larger market. I now have a much bigger base than most in the IT industry will consider a salary. From that experience, I highly recommend Jaylan to get certified and enter a specialization.

Big Data
Cyber Security
Surveillance
Storage Area Networks

Hindsight is 20/20, but if I can slap some sense into Jaylan I would be very happy. It's the same argument as to why an AFC should leave his cheating GF. We can only give so much advise on these forums, until they actually realize what is best for them. Ego is a monster, go figure.

 

[backbreaker]

Listen to 411. Listen to 411. Listen to 411.

I run a web development company but I was a computer tech a decade before I ever touched html. I made my money starting a company building extremely customized computers from the ground up. 411 is SPOT on.


The tech industry, you have to throw out everything you think you know about higher education. Unless you are dealing with companies like Amazon or Microsoft, ,and **** if you are good enough, not even them, really unless you are dealing with government contracts or potions where a college education is mandatory, you are literally, taking money out of your pocket and burning it. For 3 reasons.


1. No one, really gives a ****. They just don't.


2. They don't actaully teach you anything that's going to get you a job that's going to pay you 50k a year THAT IS NOT EASILY EXPENDABLE. That's the key part that everyone is leaving out.

You Might luck up and get that 60k a year job with a generalized computer science degree but you don't have a specialty. You're the first person that gets cut when the companies downsize, and tech positions / companies are the most downsized out there.


With my company that I had, we had at the most, 8-9 people that did nothing but build customm computers all day. it's been over 10 years now but I don't think half of them had college degress. I know for a fact one didn't have a high school degree lol.

They would come in with these ****ing degress all proud and **** and I would talk for 5 mins then my partner would bring in a mother board, a cpu, 2 hard drives, a power supply, case, a copy of windows and a copy of linux and we would simply say

"build it. Split partitions, install linux on one, install windows on the other, you got 90 mins" If you could do it you had a job, because that's all the job was, and this was one of the more complex jobs we had, if you could do this you could work for us, if you couldn't I don't care what degree you have.



3. You will at some point most likely be fired and have to downsize, and you don't' want the added stress of paying back student loans. Tech jobs get shipped overseas like nobody's business. **** I send jobs overseas. Keep your overhead low.


I got my A+ and MCSE while I was still in HS and got a tech job at best buy. Even with the certifications I didn't know **** and it took me about a year and a half to really cut my teeth learning my way around a computer being a tech at best buy.

Negotiating your pay is tough in IT. There are many entry level applicants and to few specialized applicants. I started my IT career in a very VERY rural part of a huge state. It took me a year doing sales to enter a much larger market. I now have a much bigger base than most in the IT industry will consider a salary. From that experience, I highly recommend Jaylan to get certified and enter a specialization.

Big Data
Cyber Security
Surveillance
Storage Area Networks

truth. Mine to a certain extent is hardware troubleshooting / maintenance / server admin type work.

Also, what certs should I attack first aside from A+ and Network+?

MCSE and Novell. MCSE if you want to do more desktop support, Novell if you want to do more server side support

 

[pyros]

I can just say that I did a bachelor degree in computer science and...I got a few jobs that taugh me nothing and were a dead end job.

Now I'm older, with no experience in anything specific besides SQL, so I cannot apply for any well paid job. Anyway, my bachelor degree took me A LOT OF WORK to obtain, and I did not like it, so now I'm trying to find a different career.
When I finished I could not find a good job cause companies do not want a fresh studen that has zero experience in whatever technology they use. They demand at least one or two years of previous experience...

In conclusion, I did not really like computer science, and I do not like IT jobs in general, so I would not recommend it to anyone unless you're a total freak.

I've heard that in the UK they pay you a lot more and there are many jobs in which they teach you stuff so it does not really matter whether you have experience or not, but where I live if you're not experienced already in something like Java, .NET, Linux etc, you're doomed.
And its funy cause when you go to a job interview they all ask you if you've programmed something on your own, or if you've learnt J2EE or Linux administration in your free time. Sure!! why not??? why not spend my free time learning that stuff while I could be doing something boring like going to the movies, learning martial arts or bang-ing a chick? Idiots. I do not spend my free time learning that stuff for God's sake. I know some people do , though.

 

[The411]

And its funy cause when you go to a job interview they all ask you if you've programmed something on your own, or if you've learnt J2EE or Linux administration in your free time. Sure!! why not??? why not spend my free time learning that stuff while I could be doing something boring like going to the movies, learning martial arts or bang-ing a chick? Idiots. I do not spend my free time learning that stuff for God's sake. I know some people do , though.

BIG difference between you and I.

It's one thing to work for something you are truly passionate about and another to pay the rent.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Jaylan, do you currently have a degree?

If so, the advise about getting certs makes sense. If you don't have a degree, getting the degree, along with certs, would be the way to go.

I have a business degree with information systems. I worked in IT for a few years. Now I am a boat captain. You just never know which path in life to follow, but having that degree...has opened up a lot of doors in this adventure through life.

 

[Jaylan]

Jaylan, do you currently have a degree?

If so, the advise about getting certs makes sense. If you don't have a degree, getting the degree, along with certs, would be the way to go.

I have a business degree with information systems. I worked in IT for a few years. Now I am a boat captain. You just never know which path in life to follow, but having that degree...has opened up a lot of doors in this adventure through life.

I have a 4 year degree in International Business. I was thinking of taking Purple's advice and trying to get into a Masters IT program so I can get a better grasp on IT without having to do just another bachelor's.

Id of course be getting certs in the mean time while also trying to get into entry level gigs.

 

[Eph]

Ill check that out. Hopefully it wont break the bank.

Tbh, I would really like a MS over another BS, because my parents have an MS and JD....so I kinda wanna live up to that example.Do you suggest anything school wise or program wise? Would you recommend any particular place?

Also, what certs should I attack first aside from A+ and Network+?

A lot of people (including myself) start with what we call the CompTIA tri-fecta. That means A+, Network+, and Security+. It will cost you around $500 without vouchers (or maybe more; I don't worry about cost since my school is paying for my certs; that other poster isn't wrong. Certs are expensive. They very well could cost you $5k or more), but those three CompTIA certs are recognized nearly everywhere, and will give you the basic skills you need for the majority of entry-level IT jobs.

From there, you specialize. If your into security (which is one of the highest paying IT paths out there today), you can look into CCNA: Security, CISSP, CEH, and GIAC, among others. For network administration, there are even more branches. You have to decide whether you want to work with Windows or Linux, and then whether you want to work with servers or end-users, and with servers, there's even more branches. You really have to know what aspect of IT you enjoy doing. That's another benefit of getting the CompTIA tri-fecta. By the time you have all three certs, you should know what you like and don't like. Then you can decide what certs to get. For now, though, that's what I would recommend. MSCE by itself might limit what jobs you can get.

 

[synergy1]

Cyber security is a very hot topic now for certain dod agencies. A lot of changes are coming. I am witnessing a lot of high paying internal positions coming up on USAJOBS website. Most of them require some experience, but the agencies will train you if they need a new set of skills to be used. If I was to do IT, I would strongly recommend this route. Do you know the nuts and bolts of a cyber security system and can implement it? Consulting is a high paying alternative to working for someone...and the money is better! With DOD moving forward trying to make things better, it should be a promising time for an enterprising IT professional with knowledge on cyber security.

 

[Jaylan]

A lot of people (including myself) start with what we call the CompTIA tri-fecta. That means A+, Network+, and Security+. It will cost you around $500 without vouchers (or maybe more; I don't worry about cost since my school is paying for my certs; that other poster isn't wrong. Certs are expensive. They very well could cost you $5k or more), but those three CompTIA certs are recognized nearly everywhere, and will give you the basic skills you need for the majority of entry-level IT jobs.

From there, you specialize. If your into security (which is one of the highest paying IT paths out there today), you can look into CCNA: Security, CISSP, CEH, and GIAC, among others. For network administration, there are even more branches. You have to decide whether you want to work with Windows or Linux, and then whether you want to work with servers or end-users, and with servers, there's even more branches. You really have to know what aspect of IT you enjoy doing. That's another benefit of getting the CompTIA tri-fecta. By the time you have all three certs, you should know what you like and don't like. Then you can decide what certs to get. For now, though, that's what I would recommend. MSCE by itself might limit what jobs you can get.

Thanks for the advice. Ive read the trifecta CompTIA is where to start. With regards to a Masters program....what do you think? Im strongly near signing up for an online program and getting the 3 CompTIA certs over the next few months. And then once school begins, get more certs in whichever specialization I choose.

Thoughts?

Cyber security is a very hot topic now for certain dod agencies. A lot of changes are coming. I am witnessing a lot of high paying internal positions coming up on USAJOBS website. Most of them require some experience, but the agencies will train you if they need a new set of skills to be used. If I was to do IT, I would strongly recommend this route. Do you know the nuts and bolts of a cyber security system and can implement it? Consulting is a high paying alternative to working for someone...and the money is better! With DOD moving forward trying to make things better, it should be a promising time for an enterprising IT professional with knowledge on cyber security.

I dont know much regarding information security and cyber security. I could learn it, and am open to it...but am not too sure I desire that specialization. I gotta do some more research...and like Eph said...maybe see where my interests lie after getting the CompTIA certs.

 

[Eph]

Thanks for the advice. Ive read the trifecta CompTIA is where to start. With regards to a Masters program....what do you think? Im strongly near signing up for an online program and getting the 3 CompTIA certs over the next few months. And then once school begins, get more certs in whichever specialization I choose.

Thoughts?

If you think you can handle a job (I assume it's full-time), the coursework for a masters, and studying for certs, then go for it. I think you may be spreading yourself a bit too thin, though. Also, have you thought about how you're going to able to network with people and build connections doing this masters degree online?

 

[Jaylan]

So I just got a few replies from directors and chairs of a few IT/Computer Systems departments I applied to. The consensus was that a Masters program wouldn't be good for someone like me, who has no prior IT education or certifications, despite my experience and knowledge dealing with computers and tech as a strong hobbie growing up.

I kind of thought this before hand myself, and its good that programs wouldnt just let me jump into a Masters...because despite some of the things I do know, there's still a lot I dont know. So for now I have gotten some materials to begin studying for the COMPTIA trifecta. My community college is actually a testing center and two miles from home, which is great.

So the plan for now is to study for the CompTIA entry level trifecta, while the spring semester approaches. I will also enroll in a Bachelors IT program in a nearby city in order to get more education and hands on experience in a lab. Hopefully I land an entry level gig or do well in an internship while in school, and see what happens.


Its not imperative that I finish another bachelors, but its doesnt hurt to start and give myself a foundation and see where it leads. Plus possibly getting an IT based degree would help in getting certain jobs. A lot of jobs in my area ask for them...even entry level or lower level positions. A friend I went to high school with is currently programming for UPS and only has a degree with no certs. His degree program got him into a good internship program, and he built his skills upon that.

Im applying to the same program and hopefully this all pays dividends. I think I should be able to get at least the A+ certification by January, but the goal is to also get Network+ or Security+ in that time as well.

Wish me luck in all this. Its a day by day learning process and Im still figuring out my path.

 

[The411]

Why do you want to work in IT?

 

[Frogster]

I've been in the IT field for 22 years. I've done everything from being a Jr Tech, to Vice-President of an IT company.

A degree is only good enough to get you past HR. There are other ways to get past HR that aren't as expensive.

So, you want to be in IT? Its a heavily populated field, so there's a LOT of competition. Due to supply and demand, a lot of positions don't pay that well. So consider this before getting a degree that you can't pay off.

If I were to do it over again, I would consider specializing in SQL database administration. There's a lot of demand for someone who knows how to migrate data from one database to another, and it pays pretty well. Consider specializing in ERP software, and you won't go wrong. Something like Epicore, Syteline, SAP, or even MS Dynamics.

If you're interested in hardware and network administration, then the CISCO certs are the way to go. You can purchase the self study books and get certified without going to college.

What Cisco certs are in demand:
CCNA - Everyone gets this one, but if you have it you know your stuff.
CCDA - Nobody gets this one, and I HIGHLY recommend you get both.

Why the CCDA?

Because techs aren't the only thing that Cisco certifies. An IT company can become a Premier, Silver, or Gold Partner. The partnership qualifies the company for special pricing, different levels of SPIFs, and most importantly, smaller companies can't qualify to bid on large projects.

In order to obtain Partner status, the company needs a certain number of CCNAs, CCDAs, and even CCIEs. And each role must be filled by a different person. CCNAs are easy to come by, because all techs get it, but to set yourself apart, ALSO get the CCDA.
You can still be a tech for the company, you don't have to go into the sales side. However, the role has been filled, thus allowing the company to work towards a higher partner status.

So, if I were looking at resume's and one applicant had a CCNA, and the other had a CCNA and CCDA, I would automatically give a greater weight to the person with the CCDA. If the applicant had some experience and only had the CCDA, I still might give them more weight than the CCNA.

Then you can work for the CCIE if you want to go that direction. However, there aren't that many jobs available for CCIEs in most markets.

Hope this helps...

 

[The411]

Gold partner here, no change in pricing. We need 4 CCIE's while Premiere requires none. It simply let's our current and future customers know we need to maintain a VERY high customer satisfaction.

On topic,
I assume Jaylan would like to work for an IT department over a VAR or direct. While a CCIE or even CCDA would help him land the job, it is VERY difficult to pass certification without any type of prior IT knowledge/experience. IT is rough and it is a career path, not a one-stop-shop. It's best to get an entry level position to learn and have the organization pay for your certs, it's very expensive to do it on your own.

 

[Jaylan]

Gold partner here, no change in pricing. We need 4 CCIE's while Premiere requires none. It simply let's our current and future customers know we need to maintain a VERY high customer satisfaction.

On topic,
I assume Jaylan would like to work for an IT department over a VAR or direct. While a CCIE or even CCDA would help him land the job, it is VERY difficult to pass certification without any type of prior IT knowledge/experience. IT is rough and it is a career path, not a one-stop-shop. It's best to get an entry level position to learn and have the organization pay for your certs, it's very expensive to do it on your own.

Time will tell. The objective is to get my foot in the door somewhere entry level and see where it leads.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.