Has this forum changed?

[Slickster]

And if it has changed is it for the better?

Now I haven't been here for a long time so its difficult for me to answer. However even the short time I've been here it seems like things are different. Now maybe its just me changing or it could be the natural progression of things around here.

What I'm getting at is more and more people find this site each day and the place is flooded with people trying to turn their lives around. When I joined earlier this year there were many "Old timer" master Don Juan types still here giving advice and having debates about various issues. Now it seems like many of those guys rarely post. Sure there is still tons of good advice going around but at times I wonder if it is just a regurgitation.

I visit here regularly. Usually on my lunch breaks to pass the time. I recognize names of guys who seem like flaming AFC's and the very next month they have 1000+ posts to their names and they now play the part of "Master Don Juans" to all the newbies. You check their profiles and sure enough they've been posting 15-25 times a day! Now how did you get to be such a master? You haven't even left the friggin' house!

The problem with all this is that the message is the same (or maybe not) but it is being sent out by masses of 'clones' without any real experience.

Now I'm not saying that we need these wise old Master DJ's to come back and grace us with their knowledge. Nothing here is difficult to grasp. But doesn't it irk any of you when you see the flaming 17 year old AFC turn to a master DJ in a month. Not that I care about the title Master DJ but its the attitude that goes along with it. No wonder the guys who founded this site and wrote all those posts in the Bible never come here anymore.

It seems to me like the newbies post their problems and the DJ's answer. The guys who are Senior's or Masters don't seem to have many problems. Which is the way it should be but I wonder whether they just don't post them for fear of losing reputation. Which brings up another point.

I wonder how many here have alter ego's? How many post their AFC ways under a different name? I never really understood the idea of ego in terms of an internet community. No one knows you and chances are they never will. Yet so much attitude and ego exists here. The fact we are all striving to be alpha males doesn't help.

Don't get me wrong. I think this place is gold. Very helpful to many. But it does have its faults. For example.

Too many redundant AFC posts. That comment "We suggest reading the DJ bible before posting" Should be in HUGE letters or you shouldn't even be able to get to the forum until you first go thru the Bible. The link to the forum should be hidden somewhere in the Bible!

Another fault. The DJ titles beside everyones names. Don't believe me? Try posting the same thing twice. One with your experienced DJ name and one with a made up newbie name. Check out the different attitudes and responses you'll get. I think far too many let the DJ title affect their responses to posts.

Then there is the Pook. Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed all of his posts and feel he is an enlightened individual. But it makes me sick (and probably him too) to hear people worship him like he's some kind of God. "I love you Pook", "Pook Rules", "I'd like to see Pook in action", "Can you post a picture Pook?" and on and on. No wonder the guy barely posts here. I shouldn't have even brought him up cuz I'm sure it will get all of his disciples pissed off. I guess there needs to be an Alpha Leader type in any group so in that case I'm glad its Pook. At least he seems humble even though he speaks in the third person too much. Give props to Pook (he deserves it) but don't belittle yourself doing it. I'm sure he has problems just like the rest of us.

And there are those who use this place as a crutch. They're here all the time, yet wonder why they can't get the girl. You can read all you want about confidence and techniques but it doesn't get you anywhere. Unless you're commited to improving then spare us all your problems. And even worse, after hanging out here for a few months collecting posts don't suddenly change your tune and start throwing your attitude around. I truly think some guys get there confidence right here!!! "I'm a master DJ now! Look at me!" Sad but true.

I could go on and on criticizing but that isn't my goal here. There is so much that is good here. I feel wrong for even posting what I have. I mean no harm to the forum or anyone who is part of it.

However, I would like to hear from everyone. Especially some of the older guys. Not older in age but guys who've been here for a long time. Are there any left? Guys who could speak of what this place used to be like in the days when the Bible was being written. Were the discussions different? What has changed?
What has gone wrong and what has gone right? What would you like to see different?

There is a reason why many of these people left. I'm sure its not because they've all grown out of it or have become "above" it all.

What are your thoughts?

 

[iqqi]

i think some people just get bored for periods of time, nothing serious. its like if you keep going to the same place every day. people take breaks from things all the time. they can't stay away long

anyways i so agree with you on how some of the old schoolers seemingly have no probs.. what a crock of shiat! i dare tesuque to post a problem he is having!!!

(for tesuque i dare you i dare you i triple dog dare you! btw you are my hero.


i think that there should be a new status, "old schooler" for those who have been here over two years, eh? and the ones who were first here, "dinosaurs". as a matter of fact i'm gonna suggest that.

i think it is kind of cute how everyone worships pookie. it adds character. i swear this board has a life of its own. don't hate on pookie! btw, i dare pook to post a problem too. i dare you, pook, i dare you!!!

 

[comote]

I think I can answer part of your concerns, why old-timers don't really post about problems they have. For the most part I would believe that most of us came to the conclusion that "we can handle it". On the occasion where an old-timer posts a question for example it has more to do with there own well being and getting moral support from other people who have experienced that situation.
The people that have been here for a while, they know what to do, it is simply a matter of implementing it. Also after a while the oldtimers realize that the whole issue is not about a set of rules that one has to follow, it is about an attitude that one has to have.

 

[One on One]

The forum just naturally changes over time. Personally, I think, like anything, it will improve over time because theories evolve. We learn new things every day and that knowledge eventually makes its way to the forum.

Nobody should really be concerned about their title. I have about 600 posts so I think I am a Master DJ, but, in actuality, I am far from it! However, I have improved drastically since I've arrived at the forum and maybe one day I will be a Master DJ. I'm honest about my life, though, so nobody has any false conceptions that I am a Master DJ. People aren't coming to me and looking for the answer because I don't have it. Posters do get reputations here and I actually do think they are very accurate. The longer you stay, the more you learn about each individual poster and you can figure out who is a bull**** artist or a newbie, and who is really working to improve themself and have success. Sure, Pook is greatly admired here because he has provided great tips and has been around for a long time. But, everyone who has been around for a while and is mature enough realizes that he is what he is...someone who provides great advice. People will call him the Buddha of the forums, but there's nothing wrong with that...every group in society has leaders that they look up to. Some newbies go overboard with praise because they have only heard of his existence and they build him up to be something extraordinary. It's really not a big deal.

 

[WestCoaster]

Lot of "haters" here

Here's an example: A guy below asked about how to deal with oneitis -- which is a great topic -- and Starman comes in and says it's a "stoopid" (nice spelling) post. It's not stupid because oneitis is easy to get if you get to know a person rather deeply.

Another guy posted on how a nurse hit on him at an office and he was trashed. I thought it was an interesting story.

One of the problems here is a lot of posters can only view the world from their lens. Of course I was like that in my 20's, too. Believe it or not there are a lot of different perspectives, believes, attitudes, and views out there. Yours is not always the correct one, or the one that fits for each and every person.

Also, flaming and trashing people is so uncool it automatically puts them in the AFC category, IMO. Being a DJ is also being in control of your emotions.

 

[squirrels]

People put too much emphasis on the forum itself, I think.

 

[Walden]

I find I mainly read posts that are field reports and bootcamps these days.

I know that it's possible to get a grasp of the theory just by reading it , but I found that by going out and training EVERY DAY I learned a lot more , and bits of theory that never made sense to me, after a while I start to see why they're useful.

If guys wanna talk about women then this is a fine place to do it and more power to them but there are people here who are comitted to improving their game and sharing what they learn, and those are the posts I generally read and enjoy regardless of wether theyre master DJs or whatever.

Just my $0.02

 

[Player_Supreme]

I agree with what you said. I come here in spurts and post like crazy then get tired...I am now a masters level and don't know how I got there....3000 posts in a month I guess. No one knows me, or how I live my life...except for the examples that I use. Some think I only want to bragg, but I use mine as proof.

Let me add a few comments to your post!



Sure there is still tons of good advice going around but at times I wonder if it is just a regurgitation.

1. you can't re-invent the wheel. It's all the same ole shyt night & day in this game...it doesn't change. Only the people preaching what to do does.



Now how did you get to be such a master? You haven't even left the friggin' house!

Recently I asked another master for proof that he deserved the title...I think heads who sit up in here till 3am posting and have the masters by their name should have that title taken away!

It seems to me like the newbies post their problems and the DJ's answer. The guys who are Senior's or Masters don't seem to have many problems.
1. You should be a man by the time you get to the masters level. A man handles his troubles not whine about them!

2. I have seen lots of masters with 3000 posts posting about woe is me and this girl did that too me

Which is the way it should be but I wonder whether they just don't post them for fear of losing reputation.

1. probably. When the ego gets so big that you have to post something and then go back over it again and again to see what people said about your posting...a trap I almost fell into when I first came here. I'm glad that I can't recieve emails...it would only swell my already big ego even higher...anyways...you got problems when this is your only source of success in your miserable life.

2. Heads need to get out there and put this stuff to work instead of politicking about it.

As a reader I hate the flame wars...as a debator I love it..but it's nonproductive. I was recently in a 2 day one...although it was fun for me...I wasted too much time. That is why I posted along time ago about email me if you want to post something too me...hmmm it was after that that my ebox can no longer recieve emails. But as I said before I don't blame em if they shut my ebox down.

peace

 

[So pimp its scary]

I definately that the forum has changed in the time of my break from the site (mostly because the relationship was going solid). I was thinking of posting something similar, but I really felt that I hadn't been on this site contributing long enough to make this sort of comment.

I think that the content really has degraded, because people are afraid of posting tips, just because someone will come out and say "Hey, that's my tip." That type of attitude shouldn't be allowed here, in my opinion, simply because you didn't make that tip (so long as it's not blatantly copied word for word), it is impossible to not regurgitate some of the tips in a forum such as this... you can only discuss so much about meeting and dating women, before the stuff gets redundant.

Also I feel that it would be advantageous to the forum to be more liberal in "the archive" (or the bible) the good tips... for example adding to the archive all tips that receive a 4 star rating (as an example).

As far as idolizing pook... I would personnaly like to see a picture of him, or to hang out with him at a bar one night just to see what he is like in person. He obviously knows what he is talking about, and does so very eloquently, but whether or not his time in the field goes that much better then mine (which it probably does, i'm just making an example not insulting).

I really would like to be able to post my ideas in such a way that it would command the respect that Pook, and others create with their writing. I believe that I have the knowledge needed to do it, but Idon't have the skill, as is the case with, likely, a good percentage of the posters here.

A lot of guys use this place as a crutch, and to be honest, I also did that in the beginning. The thing is that when you realize that you got no game, and you have a resource telling you how to get game, it's only natural to want to hold on to that resource... the key is to know when you are ready to let go... and that is up to the individual to figure out on his own time.

I always wonder about reputation... your reputation will be different for every person, depending on your contact with them... that's why I wonder what my reputation is (despite knowing that I will never know).

anyway, enough rambling.

 

[Slickster]

I guess there aren't any old timers left are there?

 

[Blaaaaat]

Take a look at the old forum/ the bible. And look at way these discussion went along, then decide for yourself.

 

[hitop]

I wish the moderators would keep the high school kids in their own forum. They're usually of the variety:

- How can I pick up the HB working behind the counter at McDonalds?

- I have really bad breath, can I still be a DJ?

- I think the girl in 5th period digs me. Should I invite her to the roller rink on Friday night or Saturday?

- HELP PLEASE!!! I just discovered a big ole zit on my a$$, what would a master DJ do?

- NEED HELP ASAP!!! I just called this HB 8.97 and she wasn't home, what should I do? Help me pleeeaaase.

Like I said above, enforce the high school section and keep the kids out and require persons to finish bootcamp before having posting priviledges. I think this would help greatly.

 

[Cocoon]

Yes, Slickster, some of us are still around, i remember the few, we actually had meaningful debates, not disscusions,not about whats the best line to say when, i really like what you have to say, maybe youll get put in the archive under the title golden thoughts... I have been here for a while, do not let the stupid number next to my post fool you, i had left, and now i am back.

Does anyone remember way back in the day when this forum was more like a calm, collected, intellegent, and supporting community, unlike the crazed, questionare, get pimp or die trying, place it is know? Or what about when pook, lorenzo, you know, supposedly the "godly" people in many's eyes, were just normal posters and had only 200 to their name? What do you respect more, their quality or quantity?

And as for the bible, when you read it, and if you do,(i would put money down that there are many people who have more than 1000 next to their name and havent even read the bible) take off your defense mechanism, take it all in, and dont knock something till you have tried it for yourself, most of the questions i see here, are things, that would make you a better person, if you only TRIED THEM, we are human, and therefore we have flaws. make mistakes! To many people here i'm afraid have this perfect picture of a don juan in their head and have to decided to sit back at their compter, and discuss for months or even years before they even approach, let alone say hi to a woman.

A true don juan has his own style, his own way of doing things that are set apart from all the others, there is no perfect don juan here, not even pook will say he is, go ahead ask him. I say this out of recent frustration with a direction this gold mine has taken.

 

[Doppler4000]

Yeah, I do get a kick out of the new guys who start a thread about how they have oneitis and can't even get the nerve up to do a simple approach and number close, and a month later they're senior DJ level giving out advice here and there as if they'd been doing it for years. Most of the time they're just repeating stuff they've read elsewhere on the board.

This board has changed... in some ways good and in some ways bad. I do think it's shifted a bit from the confident/gentlemanly James Bond DJ definition to more of a "player" board, which is unfortunate. But, if you sift through it all there's still some really good and helpful posts here... so as long as you be careful about whose advice you trust, it's still good.

 

[Mr. Mystery]

Originally posted by squirrels
People put too much emphasis on the forum itself, I think.

I will second that!

Mr. Mystery

 

[TesuqueRed]

Originally posted by iqqi
...anyways i so agree with you on how some of the old schoolers seemingly have no probs.. what a crock of shiat! i dare tesuque to post a problem he is having!!!

(for tesuque i dare you i dare you i triple dog dare you!...

3X dare? How do I respond? (I am an old dog you saucy tart! ..)

Probs? Ok--don't see it as problems anymore, just as interesting issues to work through. And those aren't really DJ related. As for DJ stuff---the main thing I've noticed is that DJ'ing for me isn't about picking up or scoring. I see a great deal of stunning "eye-candy" on the hoof--HBs walking around.

And I appreciate it. It's walking artwork.

DJing is about meeting interesting women--meeting an interesting personality and talking. Most are disqualified before I get within 15'.

I don't approach. Something in their dress, their age (young, unformed--nascent personalities, imo..), their voice, what I hear them say as they walk by--doesn't attract me. The appearance is eye-candy, and eye-candy only.

Yes, there's a great deal of pre-judgment occurring here---guilty! But there's also experience, too. I spent a lot of time chasing tail ('scuse the phrase, iq's) and finally realized pretty tail isn't reason enough. In fact, I wasted a good amount of time.

I recall a woman saying that once you get into your 30s and a certain amount of experience, you could just open the door on a blind date and know if there was a chance of it working out or not--and she joked you should just shake your head, say "sorry" and close the door when Mr. Not-Quite-Right showed up.

I laughed at this, of course, because I had just entered that phase of awareness. She could do it, I was beginning to do it.

I realized this when I could get a girl and know---know!---how long I could date her before she realized this wasn't going to go where she thought it would (because I wasn't going to let it go far because she was not for me, or I was not for her and she didn't realize it yet). I could tell the moment she started to get a clue. I could also kinda get the sense how long she would take before ending it.

If the sex was good, I let her end it. If it wasn't, I pulled the plug.

The realization came: don't waste your time, don't waste their time. So I don't. That decision was a step up in maturity in my mid-30s.

I have a relationship going -- casual, deep, LDR, satisfying (I get tested ocaisionally, keeps me alert...and the come-backs are hellaciously fun!) and challenging. Any--as you say "probs" are really issues for negotiating. It could all end in a moment, I am aware of and prepared for the flexibility of that. Relationships are far more complex and fluid as you get older so long as you don't shoe-horn them into predefined roles.

I'm an old dog compared to most here. I see their posts and can recall those situations. The perspective has taught me a tremendous amount and forced me to rethink many, many things. I owe a debt here for that. Some issues I never address because they are outside my experience and interest. Some of my favorite DJs post here and I never see them because those are the posts they jump into, and they don't jump into the posts I jump into.

As for actual probs--???

Changing cities, changing states, changing jobs, changing carreers. I have no clue where I will be in 2 months. It really isn't a problem, it feels like freedom. It has my attention fully engaged and I make it up as I go along. Most of "making it up" is realizing what I thought had to be a certain way and finding out that it doesn't have to be a certain way or any "way" except what I attempt. I don't know what way it will be, but I will only know if I move.

And that's why I don't post my probs: they aren't probs, they are things I will only get the answer to by making a decision and moving.

I only know what I know in movement. It's only in movement that you know--that's what it feels like.

Sorry if that's too vague or trippy.

Did I meet the dare, btw??? Probably not, I never seem to hit the issue quite directly as requested.

Anyway, I'm off for margaritas and oysters.

 

[Ar7]

I agree with you Slickster, I was here when they put together the bible. Those times were inspiring times, new thoughts and ideas being discussed all the time.

However when the bible was done, it got kind of boring. Most of the interesting work was already done and womenese was done being translated. The foundation/backbone was laid out and growing the branches were up to each one of us.

It seems to me the old timers left because they have discussed almost everything there is to be discussed and there is nothing more to be discussed.

I mean most of the stuff is already in the bible, If I ever have a problem I refer to the bible. I hardly ever go on posting on the threads where it is subjected to so called new MDJ's, and various ego trippers and stats h@res, not to mention disillusoned AFC's.
I have even considered just having the bible to fall back on (on rainy days) from time to time and not come back to this fourm at all.

Nevertheless this fourm still manages to produce some interesting new ideas from time to time. THis is why I am still here, always on a lookout for new ideas, but its hard trying to get past the load of garbage at times.

 

[Blaaaaat]

Originally posted by Doppler4000
Yeah, I do get a kick out of the new guys who start a thread about how they have oneitis and can't even get the nerve up to do a simple approach and number close, and a month later they're senior DJ level giving out advice here and there as if they'd been doing it for years. Most of the time they're just repeating stuff they've read elsewhere on the board.

This board has changed... in some ways good and in some ways bad. I do think it's shifted a bit from the confident/gentlemanly James Bond DJ definition to more of a "player" board, which is unfortunate. But, if you sift through it all there's still some really good and helpful posts here... so as long as you be careful about whose advice you trust, it's still good.

I always looks at the amount of posts and the date when the poster signed on at this board. Is not a foolproof way, but it does help to judge wheter the poster is someone who knows what he's talking about.

 

[Gold Heart]

Originally posted by squirrels
People put too much emphasis on the forum itself, I think.

That is EXACTLY what the problem is. It is a GOOD thing that there are more people finding this site each day, but it is NOT a good thing that only about 5% of the newcomers only READ the forums and bible, yet do NOT GO OUT to try out what they have learned!

They aren't practicing the things on the website, they don't go out to the club, and come back with a field report. I am happy and glad for the real men who have the balls to go out and experiment, or walk half of a day saying "Hi" and smiling to people.

TAKE ACTION - YOU WON'T FIND GIRLS SITTING AT HOME

 

[iqqi]

thanks, tesuque, for the answer

and thanks for sticking around to offer your perspective to the rookies of love

i wish more old timers would be so generous! the most valuable thing about this site IMO is the perspective. very valuable!