Hanoi Jane Fonda loves her country. Yea right!

[5string]

Read on brothers.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0719/Jane-Fonda-QVC-axed-appearance-over-Vietnam-War-comments

:trouble:

 

[ArcBound]

Read on brothers.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0719/Jane-Fonda-QVC-axed-appearance-over-Vietnam-War-comments

:trouble:

5string what's your actual age? Cause for someone from my generation they usually teach the Vietnam War was basically a massive loss of life and money that didn't really accomplish anything. They also teach that Vietnam was basically just a battleground for American and Soviet ideologies and we didn't really go in there with the best interests in mind. That being said, if that were true I can't see why its a bad thing Jane Fonda protested the Vietnam War. Of course, you being older you might have some more perspective on the issue since you were probably alive around that time.

 

[5string]

5string what's your actual age? Cause for someone from my generation they usually teach the Vietnam War was basically a massive loss of life and money that didn't really accomplish anything. They also teach that Vietnam was basically just a battleground for American and Soviet ideologies and we didn't really go in there with the best interests in mind. That being said, if that were true I can't see why its a bad thing Jane Fonda protested the Vietnam War. Of course, you being older you might have some more perspective on the issue since you were probably alive around that time.

Arc

I agree with your comments about the war. It really was F upped. Further, I don't have a problem with Hanoi Jane protesting. That's her right under our Constitution. What I do have a problem with is when our guys are dying over there, she went to North Viet Nam, sat on a North Vietnamese anti aircraft gun where she posed for pics with enemy troops and bad mounthed her country and our military. Fvckin idiot. I was in the Infantry in 73.

Very poor choices and taste on her part to say the least.

Here ya go:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

 

[ArcBound]

Arc

I agree with your comments about the war. It really was F upped. Further, I don't have a problem with Hanoi Jane protesting. That's her right under our Constitution. What I do have a problem with is when our guys are dying over there, she went to North Viet Nam, sat on a North Vietnamese anti aircraft gun where she posed for pics with enemy troops and bad mounthed her country and our military. Fvckin idiot. I was in the Infantry in 73.

Very poor choices and taste on her part to say the least.

Here ya go:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

Lol then the original article makes more sense, protesting at the white house is one thing, going to North Vietnam and posing is really fvcked up. IMO she deserves it.

 

[5string]

Lol then the original article makes more sense, protesting at the white house is one thing, going to North Vietnam and posing is really fvcked up. IMO she deserves it.

Yea. I should have posted the other link in the OP to clarify this.

She was just part of the misguided 60's counterculture which poured Miracle Grow on the feminist movement that we all have to deal with even today and talk about here on this forum.

 

[Drdeee]

Vietnam War started over an incident of Gulf of Tonkin. United States claimed North Vietnamese attacked their ships.


Today Gulf of Tonkin is an admitted false flag operation. Vietnam never attacked U.S. ships. U.S. just went into the war on false pretenses.


3,992,846 people died in that war. Objective was not achieved. United States lost.



Jane Fonda wanted peace. Today her blood thirsty country men are prosecuting her. Your government lied to you and took your through all that suffering, and you are angry at Jane Fonda, and not your government. You are mentally handicapped.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Arc

North Viet Nam, sat on a North Vietnamese anti aircraft gun where she posed for pics with enemy troops and bad mounthed her country and our military. Fvckin idiot. I was in the Infantry in 73.

Very poor choices and taste on her part to say the least.

Here ya go:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

Not only that but, she was also given a hand written letter by PWO's at the Hanoi Hilton during a handshake. Fonda gave the letter to the guards and the POW's were tortured for trying to smuggle a letter out. She should be shot.

 

[Drdeee]

Really, you think she should be shot, not the government that lied about the incident of Gulf on Tonkin? I think unpatriotic parasites like you should be shot. What you think about that?

 

[5string]

Vietnam War started over an incident of Gulf of Tonkin. United States claimed North Vietnamese attacked their ships.


Today Gulf of Tonkin is an admitted false flag operation. Vietnam never attacked U.S. ships. U.S. just went into the war on false pretenses.


3,992,846 people died in that war. Objective was not achieved. United States lost.



Jane Fonda wanted peace. Today her blood thirsty country men are prosecuting her. Your government lied to you and took your through all that suffering, and you are angry at Jane Fonda, and not your government. You are mentally handicapped.

Are you calling me blood thirsty you little fuk? I just don't like her. She went about it the wrong way. Jane Fonda didnt give a sh!t about peace, she just wanted the attention which she received and lives with to this day.

Like I said, protesting is one thing, collaborating with the enemy is treason.

Maybe you ought to spend some time in the military or public service to enhance your patriotism of which you have none.

And by the way young DJ, I have a right to be critical of anyone I wish. Respect it, as I respect your right to your opinion.

And you refer to "your government". Where the fvk do you live? I'm sure your country is without sin huh?

 

[user43770]

Are you calling me blood thirsty you little fuk? I just don't like her. She went about it the wrong way. Jane Fonda didnt give a sh!t about peace, she just wanted the attention which she received and lives with to this day.

Like I said, protesting is one thing, collaborating with the enemy is treason.

Maybe you ought to spend some time in the military or public service to enhance your patriotism of which you have none.

And by the way young DJ, I have a right to be critical of anyone I wish. Respect it, as I respect your right to your opinion.

And you refer to "your government". Where the fvk do you live? I'm sure your country is without sin huh?

Drdeee left the states for a life in Russia. Jane Fonda is most likely his hero.

 

[Rubirosa]

***** should have been arrested for treason the moment she returned to U.S. soil.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Really, you think she should be shot, not the government that lied about the incident of Gulf on Tonkin? I think unpatriotic parasites like you should be shot. What you think about that?

I think you should play nice before your sandbox privileges are restricted.

Use your big words.

 

[BlackwaterPark]

Vietnam War started over an incident of Gulf of Tonkin. United States claimed North Vietnamese attacked their ships.


Today Gulf of Tonkin is an admitted false flag operation. Vietnam never attacked U.S. ships. U.S. just went into the war on false pretenses.


3,992,846 people died in that war. Objective was not achieved. United States lost.



Jane Fonda wanted peace. Today her blood thirsty country men are prosecuting her. Your government lied to you and took your through all that suffering, and you are angry at Jane Fonda, and not your government. You are mentally handicapped.

The guy's got a point. I mean yeah, it was classless what she did, but blowing this up like it's something important is moronic. She's didn't give them codes or tell them American troop movements. Just an insignificant actress whose actions never cost anyone their life. What's worse is this my-country-right-or-wrong mentality some Americans have. They make a big issue out of symbolic things like this while letting people who caused thousands of their countrymen to die off the hook. 50000 boys dead in Nam, now 5000 thousand dead in Iraq, and for what? **** all. All it takes is a few guys at the top want war for some odd reason(ideology, help out their oil/gas, defense contractor buddies, please the jews at aipac), a bunch of wimp congressmen who don't want to "unpatriotic" in front of the constituents and have no problems sending another guys's kids to die(while their own go to Harvard), , and voila! A trillion dollars is down the drain, thousands of good men get their lives cut short, but it's all good. The country is so brainwashed by this bull**** patriotism that the parents of these kids will wave their flags like idiots and blast jane fonda instead of holding people who got their sons killed accountable. What a ****ing charade. And before you say it, I'm not a liberal or a hippy. I think the counterculture guys were unproductive bums, but they were on the mark about the war.

 

[BlackwaterPark]

And for the life of me I can't understand how someone claims to love liberty and freedom, but still buys this jingoistic crap. All this it's glorious to die for your country stuff is a hallmark of totalitarianism. In democracy you don't serve your country. The country serves you and is supposed to keep up an environment where you can take care of yourself, fullstop. And this "heroes in uniform" talk from politicians makes me want to vomit. If they're such heroes then how come your average American cant name a single guy who died in Iraq or Nam(but can rattle of the the cast of jersey shore). they were used by guys who don't give a damn and now they're fertilizer. Petty lies make the world go round I guess.

Disclaimer; Not an American, but I study in America.

 

[wait_out]

BP I'm curious. Let's say you met a young pararescue guy who was evacuating wounded soldiers and civilians on helicopters for life-saving treatment. The guy is objectively doing good, in that he is saving lives every week. But there is a risk that he may die in a helicopter crash or other mishap.

Are you going to say he should quit? He may not agree with the war but he knows he's saving lives. I also hate the jingoistic nonsense but that kind of job is frankly, heroic. And opting out has consequences.

The entire country should be looking out for guys like this -- but yeah the reality is that nobody gives a damn except other military/associated peeps, nobody will understand the work you do, and people will think you're stupid for risking your life for nothing despite what you may have actually accomplished. On top of that you can expect to occasionally run into people who will blame you for the existence of war or policy decisions you didn't support. Why would you want to come home and live among people who can't relate when you could be saving lives or hunting bombmakers?

Bottom line is that beyond flag-waving most civilians do not care about what happens to the professional military beyond stories in the newspaper. For exactly those reasons, I've seen a lot of people discussing a no-exemptions draft in times of war on places like Tom Rick's blog but the chance of it happening are nil IMO.

 

[wait_out]

Oh yeah.

Youtube views for Restrepo, award-winning documentary made by author Sebastian Junger and late photojournalist Tim Heatherington (killed in Libya while filming) after spending a year attached to a platoon in the Korengal Valley: 368,315

Youtube views for Sgt Moore asking Mila Kunis out on a date: 3,378,535

We are pretty much living in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. But enough of that depressing horsesh!t, let's watch these Taliban retards get the codes wrong on their detonator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wct6herMlfo

And just to prove i still have a sense of humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk6Puz_sdts

 

[BlackwaterPark]

"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'

Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some
poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that
he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is
understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who
determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some
say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the
United States only Congress can declare wars.

Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
any country."

 

[FairShake]

Not only that but, she was also given a hand written letter by PWO's at the Hanoi Hilton during a handshake. Fonda gave the letter to the guards and the POW's were tortured for trying to smuggle a letter out. She should be shot.

This is false. She did some fvcked up things but this was definitely not one of them. The POWs named in the email that went around about this have denied the claim and no POWs have come forward confirming it. In fact, Fonda actually carried messages home from POWs to their families.

Jane Fonda was not like most anti-war protestors in those days. Most of them wanted peace and to stop the slaughter of as many as 2.5 million civilians as well as tens of thousands of our own young men. Jane Fonda was there as an active supporter of the North Vietnamese military and the NLF. Which I'd even be ok with since it was, afterall, their country that was divided in the interest of other people. But she lied to support them and lied to defame the United States. And that is indefensible.

Lastly, to 5string, thanks for the timely post on current events. :yawn:

 

[5string]

The guy's got a point. I mean yeah, it was classless what she did, but blowing this up like it's something important is moronic. She's didn't give them codes or tell them American troop movements. Just an insignificant actress whose actions never cost anyone their life. What's worse is this my-country-right-or-wrong mentality some Americans have. They make a big issue out of symbolic things like this while letting people who caused thousands of their countrymen to die off the hook. 50000 boys dead in Nam, now 5000 thousand dead in Iraq, and for what? **** all. All it takes is a few guys at the top want war for some odd reason(ideology, help out their oil/gas, defense contractor buddies, please the jews at aipac), a bunch of wimp congressmen who don't want to "unpatriotic" in front of the constituents and have no problems sending another guys's kids to die(while their own go to Harvard), , and voila! A trillion dollars is down the drain, thousands of good men get their lives cut short, but it's all good. The country is so brainwashed by this bull**** patriotism that the parents of these kids will wave their flags like idiots and blast jane fonda instead of holding people who got their sons killed accountable. What a ****ing charade. And before you say it, I'm not a liberal or a hippy. I think the counterculture guys were unproductive bums, but they were on the mark about the war.

I agree with much you have said above and some I don't.

I suspect you are rather young and were not even a twinkle in your fathers eye by the time Hanoi Jane pulled her stunt. But since you brought up the issue of partriotism, let's talk about that a bit. Hanoi Jane was a sh!tty actress but not insignificant. She was in some bad movies but more known for her looks and killer figure. Not only that, but the daughter of Henry Fonda, one of the better actors in recent times.

With this said, who would say her actions (collaborating with the enemy), was patriotic? I still call it more than that....treason. What she did, to an extent IMO, is to further demoralize troops who were fighting an unjust war.

I hope you are enjoying your educational opportunities in the US. Oh, forgot! I'm a US Army Veteran and very proud of it.

I'll wave my flag and bash :trouble: Hanoi Jane any time I wish.

 

[TheHumanist]

And for the life of me I can't understand how someone claims to love liberty and freedom, but still buys this jingoistic crap. All this it's glorious to die for your country stuff is a hallmark of totalitarianism. In democracy you don't serve your country. The country serves you and is supposed to keep up an environment where you can take care of yourself, fullstop. And this "heroes in uniform" talk from politicians makes me want to vomit. If they're such heroes then how come your average American cant name a single guy who died in Iraq or Nam(but can rattle of the the cast of jersey shore). they were used by guys who don't give a damn and now they're fertilizer. Petty lies make the world go round I guess.

Disclaimer; Not an American, but I study in America.

I'll chime in a little here. Democracy does not mean you don't serve your country and expect the country to serve you. That logic is part of what led to the so many entitlements. There's a role in government to give some safety nets to keep starvation and limit poverty, but so many just expect the government to do everything without lifting a finger. There's has to be a give and take. There's too many takers from all economic classes and too few givers.

There's a logic, if everyone help serve the country for its prosperity, then a prosperous country means a more prosperous you. Whereas expecting the country to give you everything means no one will be working to provide anything.

Now that said, I will disclaim that this doesn't mean blood, at least not the blood paid for Iraq and Vietnam (though as a Vietnamese, I have to give appreciation, it might not have been in those guys best interest, but it doesn't denigrate they went out there to get shot in the name of South Vietnamese democracy). But it does mean we need to think in terms of serving the country with expectation that the country cares about its citizens.

In terms of Iraq, since that is brought up, since we already there, I say we should keep at it until it is fully stabilized. I mean, how controversial is the Korean war these days compared to Vietnam?

-----

More on topic about Jane Fonda. I do understand that she was fighting to no longer see anymore deaths for anyone. But it doesn't mean advocating for the North. They weren't the good guys either and all they did is set back Vietnam by about 40 years while the rest of Asia have spent that time becoming first world countries. That's her problem. Not that she wanted to see the bloodshed end, not even she associated with the enemy, but collaborated with the government that wasn't the good guys either (though I think Ho Chi Minh had good intentions) and insulted everyone fighting there.