Had a date with a girl I like...but felt like I was hanging out with my best friend..

[MR109]

I worte a brief thread on this in the other forum...

Short version - met a girl in class who is really cool. We had a nice connection from the beginning, but I wanted to wait until the class ended (it was a week long class) to ask her out.

She invited me to a film screening she had on teh alst day of class, so I met her there (her dad and friends were also there)...we chatted for a bit, but felt strange akin her out in front of her dad.

A couple of days later, we chatted on the phone for a bit, and I asked her out. I was fairly direct, but was along these lines, "I'd love to take you out. Meet me for a drink next week...". I thought it was obvious I was asking her out on a date, as opposed to "as a friend".

She said she would like to, and we made plans for last night (Thursday). Decided to go for a drink, and then catch a comedy club afterwords.

I picked her up at 8, and because she had a photo shoot in the morning, she preferred not get a drink, but would rather sit down, grab a bite, etc...then go to the club. I know she has a sleeping disorder, and she wanted to look good for the shoot, so it made sense...

No big deal.

We had a great time, and it was really fun. Before the show, we ended up heading to an open mic night just around the corner and such.

There was a bit of kino throughout, but not too many opportunities to have things more "intimate", like sitting down for a drink would have been.

In conversation, she explained that she was an introvert, and does not relate very well with people.

When I first picked her up, I did feel a sexual tension, but as the evening progresses, and her being somewhat distant physically...it felt like I was hanging out with my best friend. Don't get me wrong, we had a great time, lots of laughs, touching, etc...but because of the change of scenery (not having a drink beforehand), I felt it left no room to escalate anything.

After the show, she really had to get going so she could try to get some sleep and look good for the photos shoot. No worries there.

When I dropped her off, she told me she had a great time. She was in a rush, so it left NO room for any escalation even there. She gave me a quick hug and that was it.

She is heading to Hawaii on Wednesday for 2 weeks. She again said she had a great time, and the next time i would see here is when class starts again (3 weeks from now).

So...

All in all...had a great, fun time with a girl I like...who happens to be an introvert...left no room for escalation..and the evening fel tlike i was hanging out with my best friend...hmmm...

I am not in a rush to next this girl...at least not yet.

Part of me thinks being an "introvert" and having a hard time relating to people is why the even turned out the way it did. but...on the other hand, maybe I am just making an excuse, and this girl nhas NO interest whatsoever.

Thoughts?

TIA.

 

[Tiguere]

Move on. Hopefully you didn't spend a fortune.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

"You're like a brother to me."

Womanease to English Translation: "I'd consider sex with you to be incest."

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

In conversation, she explained that she was an introvert, and does not relate very well with people.

Hard to tell from only text, but here's my take:

If she said this after you'd made some obvious kino escalation, then it would be true, or an indication of lack of interest.

But she said it before you made any real moves, which means you did something to get her thinking along those lines.

Those lines being man and a woman hanging out together and no overt interest or moves on the part of the man.

Perhaps she felt self conscious that you didn't find her attractive enough, or whatever, but she felt the need to say something to make it seem more "normal" that a guy and a girl were on a date without any overt interest from the guy.

It is a very common mistake to wait for the right "situation," or get the right collection of "signals" for a guy to feel comfortable escalating.

In reality, by the time the guy has rationalized enough that it's finally logically acceptable to make a move, she's done waiting.

It doesn't take much, you don't need to make out in public or whip out mr. happy under the table, but you need to let her know in no uncertain terms that you'd love to be fukking the shyt out of her right then and there.

You also mentioned that she seemed to have chosen the venue for you first date, which means you already showed your weak side. So right from the start you seemed to have given up control. Not a turn on for most girls.

I'd suggest giving her one more shot. Tell her you'll pick her up, take her to a nice cozy bar, have a couple of drinks, and touch her as much as appropriate. If she doesn't call the police or run away screaming, think of an excuse to take her back to your place. Think of it as a date where you've absolutely noting to lose.

Then again, maybe she is a psycho. I dated this hot Japanese girl once, and I commented on some ring she was wearing. When I reached over to look more closely at her ring (an obvious excuse to touch hands for an extended period of time) she recoiled in horror as if I had leprosy. That was the end of that.

 

[MR109]

nah...

I met her dad last week at one of her film premiers. She has a LOT of high energy and he does not...he was sort shy or something. In talking she mentioend that her dad is the opposete of her...shy, but had a lot of good social skills when interrapting wtih people...she was the opposite. She said she rarely hangs out with people as for the most part she does not like "people"...she mentined she does not relate with with people well (though on the outside she appears to).

I'll give it a rest until I see her again in 3 weeks...maybe see what she acts like...but for the msot part, I think she was just not interested...

Mike

 

[Jitterbug]

Give her a couple more dates. If it's still getting nowhere, then whether it's introversion or other convenient excuses, you'll have to decide if you're into pushing sh!t uphill, or find some other girl that makes life easier to enjoy.

 

[MatureDJ]

I wouldn't be so quick to cut bait. An old girlfriend of mine acted in a similar way. She seemed to show a lot of interest, but there didn't seem to be any romantic interest. I did enjoy hanging out with her, so as long as I didn't have anything else better going on, we would hang out. Then after a few weeks, she said she wanted to "get close". Well, then she became a real girlfriend. I enjoyed the way she would say that I felt big inside.

I did make it a point to tell her about women I had had dates with while we were in that phase. Since we weren't really boyfriend-girlfriend, she couldn't complain about it. Of course after we became boyfriend-girlfriend, and a woman called me (while she was at my place), I started to see the "Fatal Attraction" aspect of her, and within a few weeks of that, I had to escape by literally leaving her city.

And yes, it was in Eastern Europe, not the USA.

 

[MR109]

hmmmmmmmmm...

interesting.

Well...I guess there is no harm in asking her out again when she gets back from Hawaii, and we are back in class...

Mike

 

[MR109]

weeeeeeeeell...

The past few days there have been some text messages back and forth.

I know already that this girl does not answer her phone AT ALL...and...when people leave messages, the voicemail converts it to text, and she gets it as a text message. Why I don't know...she mentioned something about a stalker in the past...so maybe that has something to do with it?

She has 2 numbers...one has strictly voicemail...the other is her cell. She gives out only the voice mail to people. however...a couple of weeks ago when she was texting me, they came from this "other number". When I asked about it, she told me to ONLY call her at the first number no matter what. But...when I asked why she had both numbers when we were out on Thursday, she said that she never gives out that 2nd number, but it was okay to call her there.

anyway, she does not pick up the phone, even her cell...so it is almost pointless to call her.

On the weekend, I actually initiated a text. I did it just to see if she would reply. It was a simple, "Hope you had a coooooooool time at the photo shoot... ".

I did not want to leave it as a question, just a statement...as a question basically asks for a response. Figured there was no reason to reply...and thought if she was dissing me fully, she would just ignore it.

I dunno...maybe that was a bad idea (?).

Regardless, she replied...

HER - "it was ****ing awesome!"

I replied the next day.

ME - "just got back from a hike where I found some cool ruins. Cool...any sexy pics?

HER - "yeah...lot of sexy pics...it was a very sexy shoot. What kind of ruins??

ME - "it's like a 100 year old house built by this cool waterfall. Have to run, though. talk later. Peace."

These texts were basically a couple days apart...I don't get reception on my cell where I live, so I can't receive any calls, texts etc., until I get down the mountain. And I don;t really want to get into a "text conversation"...

I let a few days go by, then texted her yesterday. She told me a few times that she has been having a lot of sleeping problems, and I knew she was leaving today for Hawaii today to visit family for the next 2 weeks. My last text:

ME - "have a cool trip and killer 4th, but you should stop thinking about me naked so much when she is lying in bed at night (and you wonder why you have sleeping problems!!) ha! have fun...."

No reply, however.

I won't communicate or initiate any texts or whatever...will have to wait to see her in class in 2 weeks.

I dunno...if this was a regular situation, I would probably have nexted her...but someone who tells me she is an introvert...does not relate well with people...does not answer the phone...it is really tough to say if she is totally not interested at ALL, or if this is just the way she is...

hmmmmmm...

 

[MR109]

Update

Okey dokey...

Class started up again.

I wanted to remain a bit aloof, but I made eye contact, smiled, and said hi when I saw her. She said "hi" back, but she was really distant or something. It felt odd...not "quite" a cold shoulder, but something was weird.

Throughout the hours we were in class, this weird feeling was there. Then I thought,, "hmmmmmmm...am I giving HER a cold shoulder, and maybe projecting that on her, as opposed to her to me?"...nope...I was aloof, but friendly...so not possible there. During our 10 minute break, I did not approach her, but when she walked by, I casually asked her how the trip to Hawaii was...she walked by, and said she had a good time, but no attempt to make convo, no attempt to connect...nothing.

HOLY CRAP!

Did I mis-read something? Is she so introverted that she cannot even have a simple few second convo about Hawaii? Is this a BIG cold shoulder??

EEEEEEEK!

Felt like crap after that. Kept my distance and did not attempt to engage anything with her.

At end of class, I took my time to pack my things. She was gone already and MAN did I ever feel bad.

- Until I head to the stairs leading to the exit -

As I am heading out, she is at the stairs. Not sure if she was waiting for me, or just coming back from the bathroom...either way, she is all smiles, and asks me what I am doing now (staying around and watching a performance, or heading home). I wasn't sure what I was doing, but she walked down the stairs with me, and was totally into convo.

We ended up chatting outside for around 15 minutes, where she asked me about the story I told her I going to tell her (I forgot that a few days previous, she and I texted a couple messages while she was in Hawaii. I mentioned that there was a story I had to tell her when she got back).

Anyway, I tell her the story, and we chat for 15 minutes or so. She wasn't sticking around as she needed to get something to eat and heading to bed as she was really tired (got back from Hawaii only a few hours previous).

I end up walking her to her car, and we chat outside her car for a bit. I then gave her a hug, and at the end of the hug, she sorta rubbed by back a few times with her left hand. A car drove by and driver asked us if we were leaving soon (they wanted her parking spot). She told them no, then turned to me and said that she did not want to be rushed...so...we talk for another 15 minutes. Nothing crazy. But in this conversation, she comments about how she is having a hard time in auditions, as she thinks she is not as pretty as the other "actress/model" types...the way she looks, her hair, her lips, etc. All I wanted to do was tell her how crazy she was as I thought she was MEGA hot, but of course, I didn't. This girl is a dancer...she has a SICK body, amazing legs, beautiful eyes, cool hair...man...and she thinks she is totally not pretty compared to other girls???...strange.

She asked if i was going to see the improv show on the weekend and which one I was going to. She told me she was going to the Sunday one at 6pm. I told her I could probably make that one, and suggested me meet, watch it, and hook up for a bit.

She had to get going (as did I), so i left it at that.

Today I confirmed the Sunday 6pm meet with her.

So now I do to know what the heck is going on.

I "think" the cold shoulder in class one where she did not want to mix "school" and "personal"...otherwise, she would not have waited around, nor talked to me for half and hour afterwards...right?

My instincts say she is interested, but she is also keeping a bit of distance...maybe not sure??

My usually flirty/****iness is NOT working here. 99% of all the girls I like who I am c&f with, respond back in a similar way...this girl does NOT. So I have to do a new approach with her, I am not used to, or even KNOW.

She did respond previously...flirted back in a c&F way...flirty...BEFORE I asked her out last month. Since then, she backed off with it...not responding the same way.

Any thoughts on this?

TIA

 

[yuppaz]

Go read the art of seduction, specifically the types you seduce. I think there is a type for her. That may help with your strategy with someone like her.

BTW you got lucky. this:
ME - "have a cool trip and killer 4th, but you should stop thinking about me naked so much when she is lying in bed at night (and you wonder why you have sleeping problems!!) ha! have fun...."

could have killed the whole thing. Been there, done that....lost them unless they were WAY attracted and you didn't know this or not yet. Don't get super obvious sexual unless she is showing clear signs she's into it.


Sorry one more thing, she's definitely into you. I would play it cool, have fun and do turn the heat up slowly. Let her think you are into her personality..

 

[MR109]

Yeah...I totally agree with you there. After I wrote that, and got no response, it was like YIKES!!! backed off from there, and have not "gone that route" since.

I am used to girls that are really quick and obvious, so it was more like an old routine, and not based on what she has been presenting.

This girl is so damn smart and interesting, so being into her personaity is NO problem whatsoever.

Tough to turn heat up slow, when used to quick...but will work on it...



Mike

 

[MR109]

Alright...well...went out with her today.

Now I am confused...and confusion is a bad thing.

based on what I have found out about her, I REALLY have to play this slow, and I am totally not used to it. Whenever a girl liked me, I could "tell"...you know? She was either very direct, or was extra nervous around me, or gave opportunities where I could make a move or whatever.

But I get nothing from this girl, apart from the fact that she like hanging out with me.

This 2nd meet we had planned (today), I did not set it up as a "date". When we were chatting a few days ago, she mentioned she was coming down to see some comedy on the weekend (we both are in a comedy/improv class, and a lot of pros give performances there on the weekends). She basically hinted & said it in a way that was not really asking "me" out...but made it easy for me to make plans with her. I kept it really cool, and as I mentioned, did not really set it up as a "date". Told her we would chat in a few days to confirm, and she told me to call her. Now, normally, having a girl telling me to call her is not a big deal, but this girl made it clear that she does not call people and prefers texting. Anyway, we make plans and confirm.

Today I had to do some running around (I live almost 1 hour from her), so I called her a few hours beforehand to confirm what time is good to stop by and pick her up at..had to leave a msg.

About 1 hour later she calls me (which is a first, as she is always leaving text msgs). She said she was really not feeling well, and needed to bail.

Sure, I already drove all that way, but not a big deal, and I played it really cool. Told her if she changes her mind, or starts to feel better, to let me know.

We ended up chatting on the phone for a bit, and she asks what I was doing. Told her I was doing some running around in the area.

HER - "Oh crap, you are already in my area? Let's totally go then! But I really can't stay long as I am not feeling too well."

ME - "you sure?"

HER - "Yeah, of course. What time will you be here?"

The comedy was like 6-7. I originally figured we see some comedy, then get a drink afterwards. But as she is totally not feeling well, was not sure what to do.

Anyway, I arrive at her place, and call her when i am outfront. Turns out she is just getting out of the bath and would be about 5 minutes.. She asked if I wanted to come up, but it would have taken me 10 minutes to find parking, so I just told her to take her time and I'll be outfront.

We meet, but when she sees me, she sorta give me a "weak" hug...comething casual and friendly.

We chat, joke for a bit on the way to the show...have a good time there...talk some more after...but AGAIN it felt like there was NO sexual interest on her part or attraction...like 2 really good Friends hanging out.

She wasn't;t feeling well, so the evening was quite short...we chatted in the car for a few minutes after I dropped her off (which was much better than her bolting like the first time)...but AGAIN, she left no room for me to do anything...did not make anything easy...and that was it.

So as I am driving home, all I am thinking about is, "does she know I even like her? Is she rejecting me? is this the way she is? Do I walk away Do i give this more time?

I am soooooooooooo used to moving quickly...kissing (and usually having sex)on first date, and having girls make it easy. I don;t know if she is like this because she is an introvert...or if I am making excuses for myself, and using that as an excuse...

She invited me to her burlesque show that is is doing on Saturday at some high class club...will probably go...but geeez...

Man...

Not sure what do to...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[Jitterbug]

Oh, burlesque girls are a bit unusual. Many are like female nerds. Which is kinda odd considering what they do. I'd go to the show. After the show finishes and she goes for some chill-out drinks, that's when you can escalate.

Man, I love the end of burlesque shows & their afterparty. I used to perform in a few (standing in for a mate who was away). If you want to nail a burlesque chick (and I must admit, they're my favourite), that's the best time!

 

[MR109]

Yeah...I hear ya. She is a bit of a nerd...but in a cute way.

But man...I really dont think she is into me...I keep thinking about it, and I I really have this feeling she is just being friendly, and is not interested in me at all...

 

[iqqi]

At first I actually thought this was a parody thread. That chick sounds almost exactly like me! Sleep disorder, photo shoots, introversion, burlesque show entertainment...

But she definitely seems a little more on the socially awkward side. I think that she isn't interested in you sexually, she just wants to be friends. That is why you get the cold shoulder, but then she is friendly.

I guess one thing you can do, next time you go out with her, make sure it is for drinks. A sexy lounge is best. With sexy music. Keep the conversation normal, but inject some wit and flirting here and there. As a matter of fact, you even must exude a little aloofness here. A little mystery. Don't try to fill every silence. If you can get that combination down, then you might have a chance.

After a couple, and you are both feeling a buzz and any of her social anxiety is withered away, make sure you are sitting next to her, preferably a couch, and just drop it on her. Say "do you find me attractive?" If she says yes but she just wants to be friends, then maybe don't do this next step. If she says yes, but seems unsure, then ask her if you can kiss her. If she says no, then red light, it's over. If she says yes or is unsure, slowly reach in, but authoritively, and kiss her. You better kiss her good, I hope you know how to really kiss.

Then you are golden. You'll finally know what is up.

I suggest taking more of a manly lead with her. I think you may have lost it by acting like a boy friend, and not a man.

 

[f283000]

I didn't like how you went to the film screening. When a woman invites you to hang out with a social group/acquaintances of theirs and you are not their boyfriend yet that means she is trying to include you/add you in her list of acquaintances or social group. When you accept to go you are basically getting yourself into the friend zone.

I'm not saying it is always like this but most cases I have seen and read about this is definitely the case. Allowing yourself to be part of a woman's social life that you just met BEFORE you are part of her romantic life is a sentence to the friend zone and confusion.

This is why you should follow the simple rule of not agreeing to meet a woman anywhere unless it's JUST THE 2 OF YOU ON A DATE! If you only allow yourself to meet a woman on a date between you two that is you setting the rules that you want to be seen as a possible lover. When you allow yourself to join her cliques you are allowing her to set you as a friend rather than lover.

She asked if i was going to see the improv show on the weekend and which one I was going to. She told me she was going to the Sunday one at 6pm. I told her I could probably make that one, and suggested me meet, watch it, and hook up for a bit.

Reading your posts all you seem to be doing is what she wants to do. She asks you about the improv show and you sort of placate to her by telling her you could probably make that show she's going to. Instead you should have told her that you would be doing stuff and put off being with her again until she agreed on another date with just you two, and not going to some freaking improv show!

You seem to be always available for her...to go to freaking improve shows!

I don't know but from reading your posts all I see is she using you as entertainment/someone to hang out with. You were never sexual with her so you already seemed to have ruined your own chances.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I've had brother/sister-like sex before. We got along like brother and sister, even though, I've only got 2 brothers and don't know what it's like to have a sister, except in my church. It started out with her sitting next to me on the couch in a hotel on spring break. We were alone. I make a move to get her closer to me on the couch. Then I put my arm around her. Her head tilts back, so I just GO FOR IT. Bam we are makin out and I grasp her hands, we get up and walk to the bedroom while kissing, hand on the pvss through her shorts after kissing on the bed almost a minute, she's wet, no stopping us now. The sex, felt like incest (maybe she was molested as a child?) idk just the way her legs were wrapped around me and the way we fondled curiously. Most girls seem so distant or detached during sex. Most girls will only follow your lead, and really don't know what they're doing until they get older and hornier (their peak is 30, ours is 17).

 

[MR109]

I agree...

I walked away on this one.

The burlesque club was awesome, she was freaking hot...but...as the evening went on, I found myself in the AFC Orbiter category. I thought she was inviting me specifically to come see her...I was wrong. She had all sorts of "single, and less than average guys" hanging around her...all friends. Sure I smoked with her...danced, had some fun...but she was more interested in talking with so many other people, the evening felt like a waste of time.

Of course, she invited me to a party she is having the next day at her place (tonight).

When we parted ways last night, I could have sworn she gave me a "I like you look", but with her guy friend in the back seat of the car, I did not bother...plus I could have been reading into the look anyway.

I hesitated about going to this party...but then decided last minute, why not. Annnnnnndddddddd...as I suspected even before showing up, it was basically a carbon copy of the previous night. I showed up "fashionably late", and still ended up being the first on there...go figure. We talked for maybe 10 minutes, before guy #2 and guy #3 arrived...then all of her other friends I did not know.

I ended up leaving a couple hours later as I got pretty bored and felt like shyt...just another guy hanging around her and filling her social group.

Before I left, as a test more than anything, I told her we should get together this week. Her response.

"HER - "well, we have class on Wednesday, so....life goes on".


translation:

"don't really want to, but I'll see in you class where you and I can talk and be best friends."


...yeah...

You are right on the social group thing...but regardless of what position I placed myself in (inadvertently), I think if she was attracted to me sexually at all, it would not have made a difference, anyway...and she would have made things much easier.

So, now I have to deal with her in class the next 4 weeks (only 4 classes, so no big deal).

We would normally flirt or at least chat after class for a few...but now I just don't even want to...i mean what the fvck. And I KNOW she is going to approach me...or try talking to me...and eventually ask me why I am not
talking to her as much, etc.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...will have to play the aloof thing...not stay after class too initiate the "after class" shyt...not sure WHAT to say if she ever asks me though...

oh well...

 

[f283000]

You are right on the social group thing...but regardless of what position I placed myself in (inadvertently), I think if she was attracted to me sexually at all, it would not have made a difference, anyway...and she would have made things much easier.

You're wrong on that one women rarely make things easy for you it's the opposite you have to make things easy yourself by making a move! It's the only way to figure out where you stand. When did you show her that you wanted her sexually? When did you make a real move on her? All you did pretty much was hang out with her like 100 times!

You know how she sounds like? she sounds like those type of girls that get involved in the community/activity groups/art or acting. These type of girls are always busy and ARE NOT GIRLFRIEND MATERIAL! These are not the type of girls you will see always walking around with a bf every damn day. They get involved in whatever little thing they got going on and that's their only focus. They are sort of asexual in a way. When they get a boyfriend it's usually someone who is really heavy into whatever thing they are into (whether it be another artist or whatever).

You live and learn. Never let a woman include you into her social group/activities unless she's your gf already and next time try to show more sexual intention right from the start. That way you won't have to go on a hundred hangouts and be posting on sosuave wondering what the hell is going on with her

If you don't get a kiss by the 2nd or third date it's time to move on no need to waste your time you only live once.