Skilla_Staz
Master Don Juan
I know theres something out there. Whether I'll ever see it, I doubt it. The fact that the universe is possibly infinite, and that conditions may be totally different than we know, is staggering.
Hacker finds cover up info about aliens in NASA and US military
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Friendly Otter
Don Juan
Belividere, those are stars, yes. But let's remember that a star does not equal a planet somewhat like ours, circling around it. That is far from always the case.
And then, the conditions for a planet, like the character of its sun, the distance from the sun needed not to fry and not to freeze its surface, are so ridiculously hard to obtain that it's, frankly, an absurdity to assume it anywhere else. The fact that these conditions have occurred here, on earth, are mind-boggling enough. It shouldn't have happened. The fact that it would happen again ... no.
Anyway, not only that, but what my post was pointing out is that not only do you need to consider the practically-impossibility of life elsewhere, you also have to consider that for UFOs to exist, they would have to live at the same time as us. The timeline factor is never considered by the, yes, morons who believe in UFOs. That exposes their childish minds for what they are. "Is there life out there? Ohhh, look at all the stars in the sky, so many!" -- not a thought dedicated to the enormous timeline. Never a thought that their celestial aliens may have lived and died billions of years before us. Not even among those who dedicate countless hours to the movies and websites and whatever.
But there is more - for any of these laughable UFO stories to be true, the intelligent alien life would not only have to live at the same time as us, but almost at the same point of technological achievement. Think about it. Do they live in the Stone Age, that long, long period of time? No. Have they lived with technology for hundreds of thousands of years, so they have control of the entire galaxy by now? No. They have just started out - they haven't conquered earth, they have just started exploring it. Maybe in the last couple of decades, or in the last couple of centuries. What an amazing coincidence! Almost at the same time, have we discovered technology.
And whodathunkit, they live in the same galaxy, not in any of the other galaxies. (No, it is not possible to travel between them. You simply cannot gather enough energy for such travel in one vessel.)
Anyone who believes in UFO stories even the slightest should lose his right to vote. A favor to the democratic process, it would be.
And then you have the morons who believe in the "Greys," the movie version of aliens. Oh, man. People imagine that technology makes you emotionless, and they imagine that tech geeks are scrawny. So naturally, aliens - wedded to technology as they are - must be the ultimate thing in scrawniness and lack of emotion. No abs. Short. Pencil-thin necks. No hair or eyebrows, and little mouths, so as not to express emotions or look lively. Of course long fingers, because they press keys on computers all day long, so they should have long fingers but short legs. They couldn't be ten-feet-tall athletics with fur and horns and fangs (a far more likely appearance for a living being than the Greys) - people don't have enough intelligence to imagine an athletic tech geek alien.
And then, the conditions for a planet, like the character of its sun, the distance from the sun needed not to fry and not to freeze its surface, are so ridiculously hard to obtain that it's, frankly, an absurdity to assume it anywhere else. The fact that these conditions have occurred here, on earth, are mind-boggling enough. It shouldn't have happened. The fact that it would happen again ... no.
Anyway, not only that, but what my post was pointing out is that not only do you need to consider the practically-impossibility of life elsewhere, you also have to consider that for UFOs to exist, they would have to live at the same time as us. The timeline factor is never considered by the, yes, morons who believe in UFOs. That exposes their childish minds for what they are. "Is there life out there? Ohhh, look at all the stars in the sky, so many!" -- not a thought dedicated to the enormous timeline. Never a thought that their celestial aliens may have lived and died billions of years before us. Not even among those who dedicate countless hours to the movies and websites and whatever.
But there is more - for any of these laughable UFO stories to be true, the intelligent alien life would not only have to live at the same time as us, but almost at the same point of technological achievement. Think about it. Do they live in the Stone Age, that long, long period of time? No. Have they lived with technology for hundreds of thousands of years, so they have control of the entire galaxy by now? No. They have just started out - they haven't conquered earth, they have just started exploring it. Maybe in the last couple of decades, or in the last couple of centuries. What an amazing coincidence! Almost at the same time, have we discovered technology.
And whodathunkit, they live in the same galaxy, not in any of the other galaxies. (No, it is not possible to travel between them. You simply cannot gather enough energy for such travel in one vessel.)
Anyone who believes in UFO stories even the slightest should lose his right to vote. A favor to the democratic process, it would be.
And then you have the morons who believe in the "Greys," the movie version of aliens. Oh, man. People imagine that technology makes you emotionless, and they imagine that tech geeks are scrawny. So naturally, aliens - wedded to technology as they are - must be the ultimate thing in scrawniness and lack of emotion. No abs. Short. Pencil-thin necks. No hair or eyebrows, and little mouths, so as not to express emotions or look lively. Of course long fingers, because they press keys on computers all day long, so they should have long fingers but short legs. They couldn't be ten-feet-tall athletics with fur and horns and fangs (a far more likely appearance for a living being than the Greys) - people don't have enough intelligence to imagine an athletic tech geek alien.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
I think you raise interesting points about mass consciousness. We all seem to have a shared idea of a fictional character.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
Re:
Great analogies on how 'other' life might not exist, but I fail to see at all how that makes sense.
We are but one perspective looking out amongst other perspectives with what are primitive tools at trying to understand a very complex life. Time and time again, science 'opinions' are disproven. I say opinions, because facts are barely permissible in science. It was an opinion when the earth was believed to be the center of this spinning universe. That was overturned. It was opinion when it didn't realize germs/bacteria caused sickness. It was proven that they do, instead of blaming it on spirits, or drawing blood out, or cutting of unnecessary limbs, or worse, sacrificing virgins to false gods.
There's nothing in either direction to suggest life does or does not exist. There's no conclusive evidence but models of probability, which are skewed, because we can't even get beyond a few planets of our own solar system, and the Hubble is as deep as we can see into the other side of the universe. And even then, I doubt you can assess whether life isn't floating around, given the infiniteness of the blackness of space.
--------------------
At some point, conscious thought was brought to life. At some point, this blackness of what is considered space (but being found to be more than just space), came into its own existence. But without that, what explains the 'canvas' upon which the rules for creating the space which we observe through scientific lenses? What explains the underlying 'energy' that gave life to what is known as the elements and fundamental theories of existence here?
Am I in awe? Yes. Because humans have this innate drive to explain everything, to discover, rip apart, shread, understand comprehend; the consciousness that supposedly God imbued in each human being for the sin committed by Eve. The consciousness that is likely our real manifest destiny. There's likely no end for it, no great surprise, just a BIG HAHA, from the powers that BE, saying, "See, we sent you on this wild goose chase, thinking there was more to discovering the place you were on, but in reality, the great beyond of death, afterlife, and spirituality presents more. Your feeble human minds could not comprehend the wonders of life, because you spent so much time on that damned innate skill of wonderment, thinking IT was GOD, instead of something much larger thanyourself."
I have a strong aversion to people or thoughts that pretend to KNOW the universe as if it replaces God, or religion, as another GOD or Religion. Science is but another tool of perception, and its a very limiting one, since it confines itself within the physical realm. But its the quantum physicists that appear to be on the brink of ever greater discoveries, not the physical scientists. The earth is a wonderous planet, but there's huge possibilities we're not even FROM here.
What if we were in fact dropped off, and the history of that is kept secret or lost?
Sure, great, if you can't leap in thinking, fine, don't. If the extension of creative thought hurts, don't do it. If it can't permeate your logical prison, it's ok. Maybe some people are given to such fantasy because they don't like the present reality. For me, that isn't the case, but what always boggles my mind is how young people, or humans in general are so egotistical and arrogant as to believe they know everything or are so sure of it, that this is the only reality, no other's exist, and in some way, humans are at the top of the pecking order.
--------------------------------
As to why would the government conceal it, or anyone for that matter...it leaves out ALOT of possibilities. Why has the government concocted fake stories on 9-11? Why is the TRUE CONSPIRACY theory the one that we were told on the news, namely, that 19 islamic fundamentalists grabbed boxed cutters, infiltrated the planes, took them over, and crashed them into sites that would do them LESS damage then say hitting, a nuclear reactor?? Why is the true conspiracy believing that a few buildings, which burned for a short-time, under very minor heat temperatures given their ability to handle much higher temperatures, and then some how fell PERFECTLY, so as NOT to knock ANY other buildings down??
We can't know the intentions, IF, extraterrestrials exist, because you don't know them. All reports have their being MANY different species of 'aliens', some with good intentions, some with bad intentions. The GOV already has reservations about telling us information on this planet, why would they tell people that Aliens exist and might want some people to go alone with them? I don't see them doing anything POSITIVE with such an experience, since the American public is on a NEED TO KNOW BASIS, and we don't NEED TO KNOW. Naturally, it would be kept at the highest echelon's of government.
Is it possible they came and went? Absolutely. But we mustn't relegate thought to only Aliens that can fly, but other existing solar systems with terrestrial life forms, too. We might be a blip on the cosmic calendar, or we might be alive at JUST THE RIGHT time, and as analygized by Otter, it's a matter of us finding them, or them finding us. Good or bad as that might be, it's still the reality. We don't know what we don't know. Our reality is limited to our thinking, and for most people, until they see it, they won't believe it.
Maybe we're it, or maybe it's a cosmic joke that we're so ego-centered and can't see beyond Earth or humanity. But what I do want answered is...what started it all, before the supposed big bang, before the elements and blackness of space, and hurdling meteors and suns and stars....before it all, when nothing was here. Or was it all turned on like a light switch?
A-Unit
Great analogies on how 'other' life might not exist, but I fail to see at all how that makes sense.
We are but one perspective looking out amongst other perspectives with what are primitive tools at trying to understand a very complex life. Time and time again, science 'opinions' are disproven. I say opinions, because facts are barely permissible in science. It was an opinion when the earth was believed to be the center of this spinning universe. That was overturned. It was opinion when it didn't realize germs/bacteria caused sickness. It was proven that they do, instead of blaming it on spirits, or drawing blood out, or cutting of unnecessary limbs, or worse, sacrificing virgins to false gods.
There's nothing in either direction to suggest life does or does not exist. There's no conclusive evidence but models of probability, which are skewed, because we can't even get beyond a few planets of our own solar system, and the Hubble is as deep as we can see into the other side of the universe. And even then, I doubt you can assess whether life isn't floating around, given the infiniteness of the blackness of space.
--------------------
At some point, conscious thought was brought to life. At some point, this blackness of what is considered space (but being found to be more than just space), came into its own existence. But without that, what explains the 'canvas' upon which the rules for creating the space which we observe through scientific lenses? What explains the underlying 'energy' that gave life to what is known as the elements and fundamental theories of existence here?
Am I in awe? Yes. Because humans have this innate drive to explain everything, to discover, rip apart, shread, understand comprehend; the consciousness that supposedly God imbued in each human being for the sin committed by Eve. The consciousness that is likely our real manifest destiny. There's likely no end for it, no great surprise, just a BIG HAHA, from the powers that BE, saying, "See, we sent you on this wild goose chase, thinking there was more to discovering the place you were on, but in reality, the great beyond of death, afterlife, and spirituality presents more. Your feeble human minds could not comprehend the wonders of life, because you spent so much time on that damned innate skill of wonderment, thinking IT was GOD, instead of something much larger thanyourself."
I have a strong aversion to people or thoughts that pretend to KNOW the universe as if it replaces God, or religion, as another GOD or Religion. Science is but another tool of perception, and its a very limiting one, since it confines itself within the physical realm. But its the quantum physicists that appear to be on the brink of ever greater discoveries, not the physical scientists. The earth is a wonderous planet, but there's huge possibilities we're not even FROM here.
What if we were in fact dropped off, and the history of that is kept secret or lost?
Sure, great, if you can't leap in thinking, fine, don't. If the extension of creative thought hurts, don't do it. If it can't permeate your logical prison, it's ok. Maybe some people are given to such fantasy because they don't like the present reality. For me, that isn't the case, but what always boggles my mind is how young people, or humans in general are so egotistical and arrogant as to believe they know everything or are so sure of it, that this is the only reality, no other's exist, and in some way, humans are at the top of the pecking order.
--------------------------------
As to why would the government conceal it, or anyone for that matter...it leaves out ALOT of possibilities. Why has the government concocted fake stories on 9-11? Why is the TRUE CONSPIRACY theory the one that we were told on the news, namely, that 19 islamic fundamentalists grabbed boxed cutters, infiltrated the planes, took them over, and crashed them into sites that would do them LESS damage then say hitting, a nuclear reactor?? Why is the true conspiracy believing that a few buildings, which burned for a short-time, under very minor heat temperatures given their ability to handle much higher temperatures, and then some how fell PERFECTLY, so as NOT to knock ANY other buildings down??
We can't know the intentions, IF, extraterrestrials exist, because you don't know them. All reports have their being MANY different species of 'aliens', some with good intentions, some with bad intentions. The GOV already has reservations about telling us information on this planet, why would they tell people that Aliens exist and might want some people to go alone with them? I don't see them doing anything POSITIVE with such an experience, since the American public is on a NEED TO KNOW BASIS, and we don't NEED TO KNOW. Naturally, it would be kept at the highest echelon's of government.
Is it possible they came and went? Absolutely. But we mustn't relegate thought to only Aliens that can fly, but other existing solar systems with terrestrial life forms, too. We might be a blip on the cosmic calendar, or we might be alive at JUST THE RIGHT time, and as analygized by Otter, it's a matter of us finding them, or them finding us. Good or bad as that might be, it's still the reality. We don't know what we don't know. Our reality is limited to our thinking, and for most people, until they see it, they won't believe it.
Maybe we're it, or maybe it's a cosmic joke that we're so ego-centered and can't see beyond Earth or humanity. But what I do want answered is...what started it all, before the supposed big bang, before the elements and blackness of space, and hurdling meteors and suns and stars....before it all, when nothing was here. Or was it all turned on like a light switch?
A-Unit
KontrollerX
Master Don Juan
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Interesting.
Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
Friendly Otter, between calling people morons for disagreeing with you, and exclaiming that they have no right to vote, did you ever consider the possibility that you might be wrong in your calculations? With your ranting you're coming across as very ignorant.
UFOs are...
- Hallucinations
- Aircraft
- Military aircraft
- Foreign military aircraft
- Natural atmospheric phenomena
- Satellites re-entering the atmosphere (it happens more often than you may think)
- Weather balloons
- Hoaxes
- Misjudging distance
thederekeffect1
Master Don Juan
This has turned into a pretty interesting arguement (minus one poster calling anyone who disagree's with him morons). Personally, I'm not on either side of the debate. Until I see an alien close-up, I'm not going to worry about them.
Consider that everything we know about science is wrong. Consider that everything we know about the Universe is wrong. Consider that we've been wrong in the past. Consider that scientifical proof starts with a theory. Everything is possible, again. Everything.
Since when does there have to be oxygen, temperatures like earth, and water for life to exist on other planets? Since when do other lifeforms have to be like us to live comfortably? Who says that there aren't other lifeforms out there breathing carbon monoxide instead of oxygen?
One thing holds true. For another lifeform to travel to Earth, their technology would have to be more advanced then ours. We've finally reached a point where we can send a piece of technology into space and reach another planet within 10-20 years. This technology is called sattelites. Unfortunatly, we cannot (yet) fit a human into a sattelite or provide the artificial living conditions within the sattelite for a human to survive for 40 years (there and back). We're getting close. There's nothing saying that another lifeform on another planet could not have already done this.
Time is irrelevant. However, let's take your arguement into consideration. We're not the only creatures on our own planet. There are billions of lifeforms that we are sharing our planet with. You're saying that it would be near impossible for another lifeform to exist in the same exact state of time that we're currently in. Yet, we're sharing our own planet with billions of lifeforms. We'd be the only lifeform on our planet if your arguement were relevant. That's why your arguement is irrelevant. We already know that it's possible for billions of lifeforms to exist at one point of time.
It's true that there are a lot of keypoints that must exist for another lifeform to exist on another planet. None-the-less, travel to earth for reasons unknown to us. You have that part right. If you're a scientist.Friendly Otter said:
Consider that everything we know about science is wrong. Consider that everything we know about the Universe is wrong. Consider that we've been wrong in the past. Consider that scientifical proof starts with a theory. Everything is possible, again. Everything.
Since when does there have to be oxygen, temperatures like earth, and water for life to exist on other planets? Since when do other lifeforms have to be like us to live comfortably? Who says that there aren't other lifeforms out there breathing carbon monoxide instead of oxygen?
One thing holds true. For another lifeform to travel to Earth, their technology would have to be more advanced then ours. We've finally reached a point where we can send a piece of technology into space and reach another planet within 10-20 years. This technology is called sattelites. Unfortunatly, we cannot (yet) fit a human into a sattelite or provide the artificial living conditions within the sattelite for a human to survive for 40 years (there and back). We're getting close. There's nothing saying that another lifeform on another planet could not have already done this.
Time is irrelevant. However, let's take your arguement into consideration. We're not the only creatures on our own planet. There are billions of lifeforms that we are sharing our planet with. You're saying that it would be near impossible for another lifeform to exist in the same exact state of time that we're currently in. Yet, we're sharing our own planet with billions of lifeforms. We'd be the only lifeform on our planet if your arguement were relevant. That's why your arguement is irrelevant. We already know that it's possible for billions of lifeforms to exist at one point of time.
A friend of mine debated the Big Bang Theory using this same exact arguement. She's advanced in science and I only know the basics. Still, I wanted to know exactly what caused energy that existed for an infinite number of years to suddenly come together and explode. In the end, we still disagreed. It's an interesting debate though and if you get the chance, find someone who is advanced in the field of science and debate the subject with them.A-Unit said: