Guns save lives

[Bible_Belt]

Are there more mass shootings because they started letting nutjobs loose on the street

I have read about increases of certain types of murders in the decades after the state stopped operating psychiatric hospitals like they used to. The two recent murders in NYC where a homeless person killed someone by pushing them in front of a subway train fall into that category. The reason why almost all homeless people are not in institutions is not that they don't need to be there, it's that the state just won't pay for it any more.

When I lived in Tampa, a nearby treatment facility lost their funding to give 24-hour care. Every morning at 8 am, they woke everybody up and shoved them out the front door, until they could re-open that evening. So all the mentally ill people just walked in circles around the block all day, like a parade. USF students call them 'the Fletcher Avenue people.'

 

[LiveFreeX]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/high-school-shooting-taft-california-183012601.html

You guys have some screws loose... seriously. If you need to feel protected, learn some martial arts, they are just as deadly, you'll never run out of ammo and no one knows that you've got them. In a gun-less society, only the real nut jobs are the killers and if you are armed with martial arts (as are children here in China) you don't have so much to worry about, if they would make common sense here a priority, they could stop 90% of crime. In america, if you get pissed off one day you can just pull a gun and blow someone away. The last time someone pulled a gun and shot someone else in China there was a country wide man hunt, the first night they had 1500 police on the ground looking for this guy. They wanted to know how he had access to ammo, its nearly impossible to get a hold of firearms in this country... the end result was they found him a couple provinces over and terminated him instantly, he still had a gun in hand, it didn't save him. You can't hide from the government. Apparently he was found because a neighbour noticed he had a gun... the advantage to only the criminals having guns? People with guns go to jail. You can't fight back if you get shot from behind no matter how many weapons you are carrying.

All this talk about psychos and nuts jobs being on the loose cause of hospitals is dumb, all people are capable of becoming psychos and nut jobs at anytime. You are not pre-disposed to becoming crazy, what is this? Minority Report? Are we going to lock people up as soon as we think there might be a problem? Well if that was the case, I'd be locking up all of you 'potential murderers' for wanting to own guns.

When the people fear their government there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. – Thomas Jefferson

Guns don't protect your freedom at all. If the government wants to come in and kick your ass they have Drones, Tanks, Artiliery, SWAT, Soldiers. Guns protecting your freedom, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. How can you feel secure in a society where firearms can be purchased on the street for $25 dollars. All this bs about home invasion... if the guy invading your home is smart, he'll bring a damn gun with him... then what are you going to do? Hope you shoot first and accurately right?

If a government wants you dead, thats the end period. If the police come to arrest you, what are you going to do? Shoot at them? Good luck with that. Just admit it, you like guns because you are a violent society. If you guys fought for your healthcare and jobs like you fight to keep your guns, everyone in America would be better off. You can't stop what your government is doing to you with your gun? What are you going to do, shoot a senator? Threaten their life? That won't do anything but put you in a jail cell for the rest of your life. China is going to kick your ass and they are going to do it economically, not one shot will be fired. You guys are going to become just like the old soviet union.. Watch Looper for a glimpse of the future. As for me? I can walk any street in any city in China and feel safe. Any backstreet, any side street... I'm not worried about home invasion at all, both my wife and I study martial arts and we are both capable of defending ourselves and our loved ones. In a gun-less society, you have to REALLY want to do something bad and study hard to be able to do it. Its not as easy as walking down to the local corner store, buying yourself a weapon and going to do whatever you want to do. I think you'll find that most of the civilized nations on Earth agree that guns should be kept in the hands of the police and the people who are supposed to be watching out for the little guy. I'm sorry that you are terrified of the very people who are supposed to watch over you. Maybe they're terrified of you because you own a gun.


It seems to me, the biggest threat to america now is itself.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Thirdly, guns don't "create violence", they are just a tool for violence, much like bats, knives, etc,.... This is why when you see guns banned, violent crime via other methods tends to rise.

I can't imagine that bat man guy would have been able to kill all those people in that cinema if he only had a knife or worse his fists, somebody would have beat the crap out of him, with america in the state it is, it just might have been a woman. Can you imagine Sandy Hook if the guy wasn't armed? I work with kids and I can tell you that sometimes THEY can be the aggressors... I've been punched in the balls and bitten enough times to know not to try and drag a kid out of the classroom without backup. A school could employ bouncers and police dogs instead of guns. Imagine instead we arm all the teachers with black belt martial arts training, problem solved.

Now imagine we arm all the teachers with weapons, I can think of a few cases where I would have been shot for being a disruptive kid. As a teacher, I don't want the responsability and responsability of accidentaly shooting a kid. Maybe the solution to guns is to have people turn them in to government smelting plants for $1000 each. Bullets for $50 each... Could be called the lower class bailout.

 

[goundra]

u r an idiot, dude. In the first case, 90% of crime isn't even VIOLENT, and most attacks do NOT involve a gun in the hands of the attacker. google for the Dept of Justice website, and read the ANNUAL CRIME SURVEY.

There is PEER REVIEWED survey material establishing that guns STOP crimes in the US at LEAST 1 million x per year, every year, and maybe 2x that often. they also save a LOT of people and pets from being hurt by animals, from mean dogs to cattle to rabid skunks, I want to SEE you stopping a rabid dog with your karate, and I have seen some of the world's best, at the Int'l Taekwando champs, and am black belt myself. I carry a pistol, tho.

My instructor, Moon, Hyo Kun, a 5 th Dan in MooDukKwan, who I SAW kill a 40 kg pig with a single spear hand strike (pig held on ground, foreleg outstretched, by 2 othe men) was asked what he could do against a gun armed attacker. he was 10 ft away, said "not possible". he got up inside pivot or jump kicking distance, and said "possible", got up inside front leg kicking distance, glowered menacingly, then pointed at me, and said"HIM with gun? Not possible". He had seen me use primer only powered (no powder) wax bullets, in a 1911 .45, toss up a soda can, draw from a secured, but openly worn holster and hit the can in midair, repeatedly.

 

[goundra]

we don't have to WAIT for them to mass with the military, we can kill the tyrants where THEY LIVE, or kill their minions in their HQ's or their vehicles, or follow them home.

 

[LiveFreeX]

double post

 

[LiveFreeX]

The USA is currently occupied by feminists/liberals and homos. If you want to know who your overlords are just ask yourself 'who am I not allowed to openly criticize?". Guns won't cure this problem, you can't shoot your problems away, not happening..

No amount of guns are going to stop whats in store for the USA now. Your economy has been shot to hell and the shooters never hit you with one bullet. The economic systems are globally tied, you will likely never be under attack where small arms fire is required. I highly doubt that any mass naval movement cannot be detected with satelites weeks before it happens.. A rabid animal can be stopped by a locked car door or fence and a well placed call to the authorities or animal control. You wouldn't have to worry about doing a 10 ft flying karate kick if you didn't have to worry about a guy opening fire on you with a gun.

so the whole argument about keeping guns is retarded unless you live in the outback and then there is no reason not to replace your rifle with a bow and arrow. As far as revolution, do you think Texas will just revolt and you are going to hold it by shooting at them? I doubt it. Lets be realistic here, the only thing a gun allows you to do is protect yourself without proper training and take things from people without any thought. Who do guns really help? Criminals. What does a gun add to your life apart from being able to commit murder? If you are truly terrified of dogs, carry a composite long bow and arrows on your person or a tazer..

You would be surprised at what a large number of men with rifles can do in guerilla warfare. Especially when many in the military would defect anyways.

I've never been worried about having a gun or having a gun pointed at me in Canada/China, not once. I've never spent any time even thinking about guns unless I'm in America, where I fear for my life. If you are comparing yourselves to Afghanistan then theres a bigger problem at work here. Who does the US have to be afraid of? Mexico? Canada? Yeah right. Guerilla warfare? Against who? Wars are fought with nuclear weapons now, no amount of small arms fire will deflect a bomb or a speeding 747.

What exactly is the argument for selling automatic weapons? I can't imagine anyone needing military grade gear for anything. If Americans don't want to disarm then I think they should all stay in America and keep their weapons where they belong, on American soil.

 

[Down Low]

A depressed person who goes on and then off ssris becomes suicidal.
A suicidal person who goes on and then off ssris becomes homicidal.

These drugs escalate, that is the problem. These mass shootings were a lot rarer in the past even though guns were more accessible.

Anyone on SSRIs should fire his doctor and buy a bottle of 5-HTP at Costco.

I don't see the problem with guns. If you need a gun, go get one. If you don't, don't.

 

[twentee]

i will openly criticize whomever I please. If you don't know the difference between a full auto machine gun and the sort of semiauto rifles sold here, then you need to learn that difference. You need a gun if you are a petite woman, elderly, handicapped, dude. you need one if 2-3 guys attack you with fist sized rocks, too. It doesn't take a gun to kill you, 1000's of people are raped, beaten, stabbed, etc, every day, all over the world. Bare hands is all any big, strong man needs to kill women, the elderly, or the handicapped, for instance. So your "anti-gun" drivel is just that, slobbering.

 

[LiveFreeX]

I'd rather have 3 random people come at me with a rock while I sit and watch Batman than 1 teenage loser with a rifle.

Bare hands are all one petite woman needs to kill a very large man, they should make self defense training in schools mandatory instead of stupid classes american children will never use. (sex ed) With a little training its easy for people to gauge an eye, bust an arm or kneecap, break ribs. Anyone who has taken martial arts knows how lethal they are.


My wife is one of those petite women that could put you on the ground with a busted arm/kneecap with very little effort. Kung Fu is offered in Chinese universities as gym class. I took Aikido as a teen with a midget instructor, guy managed to put me to the ground no matter what I did.

What a horrible place you guys must live in where every woman, man and child needs to own a gun to feel safe. I would NOT feel safer if teachers were armed, most teachers are looney tune gender bending liberals. You would be learning the homo agenda at gun point.

Burroughs, I highly suggest you flee the USA at the earliest opportunity... I'd still rather take my chances in a polluted Beijing than gun ridden NY.

I wouldn't be opposed to Longbows or Muskets though, something that takes a little brain power, effort and training to fire. But when you have people named Honey Boo Boo walking around, I gotta question why you'd want to make guns more available to the general population. If the goal is self defense then a crack shot with bow and arrow should suffice. Do you think the general population would be in favor of trading in their guns for bows? Would certainly make the US a safer place... there really isn't any reason for someone to own a multiple shot weapon or scoped gun.

 

[Bible_Belt]

What a horrible place you guys must live in where every woman, man and child needs to own a gun

And where you live, the government imprisons and tortures people in "re-education camps" for the crime of practicing the wrong religion. Places like China are among the many reasons that Americans fear and distrust our government so much.

 

[LiveFreeX]

There is no 'moral high ground' for the USA.... you guys can't even question the muslim religion without being threatened and having your ass kicked in. And I ask you, where is your president when all of this is going down? Whose side are your politicians taking when american lives are being taken? I'll take China's anti-religion laws to America's new PC laws any day, at least I stand a better chance of leading a normal life without some nut case screaming that I have to accept their lifestyle choice or religious rule.

The USA is what built China into what it is today, if america is so against China, why did you guys dump all your money over here?
Everything sold in your country is made in mine.

People have plenty of jobs and money is flowing over here, nobody is losing their homes... different story in the good ole USA. Nobody getting randomly blown away in theaters or getting shot in the streets here. Men still date and get sex with beautiful women everywhere I go.

 

[Bible_Belt]

It must be awesome to let the government tell you what religion you are allowed to have. Here's where you end up when you disagree:
http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/l...lp-found-halloween-decorations-202400773.html

If you didn't say that China was great, they might put you in one of those camps, so I guess I don't blame you. I don't want to get you put in prison for criticizing the government.

 

[LiveFreeX]

And what if your assailant is also trained in martial arts?

Run or call for help.

Violent crimes skyrocket when guns are removed, it's a fact proven over and over again. So not only does their removal make you less safe, it also enables the beginnings of a Police State.

There is no proof of this at all.. I'm sitting beside 2 americans and both say this is hogwash. We have 1.3 billion, you have .3 billion and there is much less crime here than in the USA.

It must be awesome to let the government tell you what religion you are allowed to have. Here's where you end up when you disagree:
http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/le...202400773.html

You do know this was a hoax right? English lessons typically cost between $30 to $50 American dollars per hour. For a Chinese person to be able to write this, they would likely have had to spend $5,000 to $10,000 dollars (a small fortune over here). If anyone wrote this in China, it would likely be the factory owner. While people in the factories do get paid quite low, at least they have jobs but they would never have been able to write this.

 

[twentee]

I not only question Islam, I say it's for goatherding faggots. it went obsolete centuries ago, just like all the other religions. Once we figured out that religion is just a barbarous precursor to real Philosphy,, any utility that it might have had was gone.

I'd LOVE to see you TRY to bring a bow and arrow 'into play" fast enough to amount to a rat's ass. A pistol can be drawn from concealment and the sight WILL stop most attackers, in 3/4 second or a hair less time than that. drop a coin from shoulder height and it will hit the floor in about 3/4 second.

"crap" starts at 10 ft or less, and is UPON you in 1 second or less, and often, it's 1/2 second or less. I'm a black belt, karate has its place, and that place is if you get "caught' without your gun, or if you get "jumped" more quickly than you can bring your gun into play. you need both, but karate is a VERY poor second place to having a gun.

again, you ASSUME that all defenders are agile adult males. It aint so, and grandma CAN'T fight worth a hoot,, with bare hands. but she can certainly shoot some pos who is trying to attack her.

 

[LiveFreeX]

I'd LOVE to see you TRY to bring a bow and arrow 'into play" fast enough to amount to a rat's ass. drop a coin from shoulder height and it will hit the floor in about 3/4 second.

This is my point, you are focusing on the problem from the point of the attacker, not getting rid of guns as lethal weapons. I suggested a bow as an alternative to you gun nuts needing to feel protected from a distance. I think Americans are just trigger happy nut jobs who can't wait for the chance to 'defend' themselves.

A pistol can be drawn from concealment and the sight WILL stop most attackers, in 3/4 second or a hair less time than that.

Why would you want people to be able to do this to you? A guy can't exactly draw a bow and arrow on you without attracting a ton of attention. The sight will stop anyone, its a goddamn gun. My point is a GUN can be drawn from concealment and will enable most people to rob you/kill you easier than someone who has to study and train in martial arts/archery.

Take all the guns away and replace them with bows/martial arts, you'd have a much more civilized society. It takes at least a year of practice to hit a target with a bow and unless you are Legolas you aren't going to be hitting multiple targets. Gun control contributes to a safer society. I'd be amazed to hear of ANY accidents you'd have while cleaning a bow and arrow.

 

[LiveFreeX]

I think it would be better for people in the USA to live without guns. I don't see how you have any more freedom with guns then without?!? Freedom to have your jobs sold to China? Freedom for DUKE university girls to tell men what to do? Freedom to a life of forced solitude without PUA knowledge? Freedom to cuckoldery? Freedom to a morally bankrupt nation? Freedom to false rape accusations? Freedom to no fault divorces? Freedom to seriously overpriced healthcare? I think your American Freedom is overrated. Did guns prevent the bailout or help stop your country from sinking into depression? Did guns stop Obama from being re-elected?

I'd like to know just who does these studies? Any studies outside of america? If what you say is true, what other method could a nutty teen use to run into a crowded theater/school and mow down 40+ people? I'm pretty sure more people have died in america in the last few months from guns than violent crimes have been reported in gun free Canada.

I honestly don't care if you ban them or not. The only way I'd ever set foot in America would be at gun point.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman. "I don't know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don't see the connection.

I'm sure that nine year-old dead girl would have a few things to add about vigilantes and gun nuts who use their guns to fight the government.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0...A-A-shooting-suspect-s-unusual-profile.-video

Floyd Lee Corkins, who allegedly shot a security officer after saying, “I don’t like your politics,” was characterized, in an affidavit released Thursday by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as a strong supporter of gay rights. The shooting took place at the Family Research Council, a conservative think tank known for its opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/...-himself-over-fear-obama-would-be-re-elected/

According to The Mail, authorities believe Peterson shot his wife and the children before turning the gun on himself.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gene-rosen-sandy-hook-conspiracy-155033813.html

I don't even need to quote. May those children rest in peace. [20 Children, 6 Adults]

Hmmm yeah, freedom in america eh?? Show me where exactly violent crime goes up when guns go down. I think I'll stay here in China with my straight laced 23 year old wife who cooks/cleans and doesn't really like alternative lifestyles/religion and isn't overly concerned with preserving her freedom. At least here I don't have to worry about the students shooting each other.

 

[twentee]

the punks can[t be BOTHERED to be skilled, they lack the discipline. but they can certainly 'gang up" on you and no, you CAN'T handle them with just karate,either. Not if they have a lick of sense. they won't WAIT and engage you one at a time, like the bs karate movies! they'll ALL snatch up chairs, bottles, etc, and hurl/swing them at you at the same time. But they won't DARE try anything of the kind against a (ready) gun. I've held men at gunpoint 4x in my life, and believe me, they don't even TWITCH.

When you are REALLY skilled with a pistol, you don't care about others having guns, because you are so much faster/accurate that they have no chance, really. Literally, and several times, I have tossed up a soda can for a guy who will MISS it with a shotgun, and I make a concealed draw, rack the slide to chamber a round in a variant of the 1911 .45 auto, and hit the can while it is still in the air. I don't CARRY the gun with an empty chamber, the extra step required to make it fire is done just to illustrate the superiority that real skill offers you.

See, without ear muffs, (which I had) the shotgunner "flinches" and jerks the gun out of aligment with the soda can target. At the ranges he is firing, the can is only 10ft or so from his muzzle, so the pattern spread of his pellets is only 2" or so wide, so it's quite easy for him to miss, but most people don't realize this.

 

[Bible_Belt]

You do know this was a hoax right? English lessons typically cost between $30 to $50 American dollars per hour. For a Chinese person to be able to write this, they would likely have had to spend $5,000 to $10,000 dollars (a small fortune over here). If anyone wrote this in China, it would likely be the factory owner. While people in the factories do get paid quite low, at least they have jobs but they would never have been able to write this.

Like I said, I don't want the Chinese government to put you in one of those forced-labor camps, so I'm glad you're maintaining the official story. When the censors read your posts, it will reflect favorably upon you, so good for you.

The real story is that those "workers" are political and religious prisoners. Of course some of them are educated; that's what makes them enough of a threat to throw into the Chinese gulag.

China just recently admitted that the labor camps exist, in new promises for reform. http://www.dw.de/china-signals-rethink-on-labor-camps/a-16514645 That's the first time they have admitted publicly that those camps even exist.

And those letters have been appearing for a long time http://ntdtv.org/en/news/china/2013...hinese-labor-camps-surfaced-a-decade-ago.html The official story must be that all of them are fake, right? That was the official story about the labor camps for the past 60 years up until last week.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Back to the original topic, NY state just passed a new gun control law:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...control-law-first-since-newtown-massacre?lite

Called the Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act, New York's law:

Bans possession of any high-capacity magazines regardless of when they were made or sold. Only clips able to hold up to seven rounds can be sold in the state. Clips able to hold seven to 10 rounds can be possessed, but cannot be loaded with more than seven rounds. If an owner is found to have eight or more bullets in a magazine, he or she could face a misdemeanor charge.

Requires ammunition dealers to do background checks, similar to those for gun buyers. Dealers are required to report all sales, including amounts, to the state. Internet sales of ammunition are allowed, but the ammunition will have to be shipped to a licensed dealer in New York state for pickup.

Requires creation of a registry of assault weapons. Those New Yorkers who already own such weapons would be required to register their guns with the state.

Requires any therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat of harming others to report the threat to a mental health director, who would then have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient's gun could be taken from him or her, as well.

Stipulates that stolen guns should be reported within 24 hours.

Tightens the state's description of an "assault" weapon. Previous state law defined an assault weapon as having two "military rifle" features, but the new law reduces that specification to just one feature

Requires background checks for all gun sales, including by private dealers -- except for sales to members of the seller's immediate family.