Gunman opens fire on lecture hall at Northern Illinois U

[Levex]

This is a horrible tragedy, like all others that happened before. It pisses me off that these crazies are taking lives of bystanders like its nothing. If you want to end your miserable life, sh1t, go right ahead jump off a building, but dont kill people who actually have a bright future to look forward to.

On the issue of gun control. I am by no means a gun nut, but i do own a revolver that i keep loaded in my house and take to the shooting range every few months. There is just something comforting about knowing that if somebody decides to bust through the door in the middle of the night i won't be like a hopeless sheep staring at a barrel of somebody else's gun. Some people think these things dont happen, but if you pay attention to the news its home invasion this, home robbery that, quite often, and it doesnt matter which neighborhood you live in either, it can still happen.
I will not let some armed crackhead break into my house, rape my girlfriend,and shoot or kill me...no way in hell.

That said, there should definitely be SOME form of gun control. Like a psychological evaluation from a doctor, background and criminal records check, and gun registration to filter out at least a little bit of at-risk people.

 

[bigjohnson]

How can you explain this without admitting that guns don't cause crime?

While it's completely reasonable to say guns don't cause crime it's also pretty obvious that prevelance of guns has at least the potential to make crimes more lethal.

 

[Bible_Belt]

There's no way to keep stats on the crimes that guns prevent. Lots of would-be attackers have reversed course when they learned that their victim was armed. It's not an uncommon scenario. I know at least one guy to whom that happened. There's no police report and no statistic kept, but these non-events have to be considered and balanced against crimes that are supposed to be either caused by guns or made worse by them.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

If America lasts the century (which I doubt), I hope people will be saying to each other, "What the fvuck were we thinking! Gun ownership for every American? LOL"

I love these people who get erections for the Constitution; I mean, there's just no fvucking possibility that the Constitution is the slightest bit antiquated, right? LOL.


Just admit, folks: America is fvucked. This country enjoyed a very short prime; happiness cannot be sustained via exploitation and accumulation of materialism.

Hey, it's all about equality. Everyone can say or do anything they'd like no matter how asinine because it's our right and everyone is not only created equal but also treated equally; no matter how mentally challenged or destructive the person may be. "God Bless America?" God save America.... Yeah, I'm desperate...

 

[bigjohnson]

There's no way to keep stats on the crimes that guns prevent. Lots of would-be attackers have reversed course when they learned that their victim was armed. It's not an uncommon scenario. I know at least one guy to whom that happened. There's no police report and no statistic kept, but these non-events have to be considered and balanced against crimes that are supposed to be either caused by guns or made worse by them.

One researcher (Keck?) tried to quantify that but it's pretty tough because as you note these are non-events.

 

[Aboleo]

Wow.

Just wow... some of you guys are really ****ing stupid. Thats all I have to say. You make it sound like guns are only used to commit murder... ****ing city slickers, I swear.

Oh, and the last time I checked, America wasn't the only country in the world with problems. We aren't the only country in the world to have school shootings, either.

--Back on topic before this thread gets locked.

 

[meitenesrigas]

Well, since 26-OCT-2007 large parts of the Swiss Army's actives have to return their personal ammunition to storage. It is in fact somewhat difficult to steal these guns, as they are usually kept locked up.

It is true by the way that in many European countries getting a firearms license is not too difficult, but certain restriction may apply. Where I live, guns have to kept locked up in a certified safe and law enforcement officials can enter any home to which a firearm is registered without obtaining a warrant first to make sure that they are kept locked up. You cannot transport a gun in any way except to hunt and to the firing range, guns and ammo must be kept seperate even when travelling, must be kept in a locked case, etc etc etc. Police do check when hunting season starts. It is almost impossible to obtain permission to carry a weapon, concealed or not.

Stupid as this may sound to Americans, but it seems to work. About 98% of all crimes, including burglary, are carried out by unarmed criminals. The most common weapons are knives, followed closely by sticks and steel-toed boots.

Hell, in some countries police go around unarmed to a large degree, such as the UK or Japan. They don't seem to have such a large problem with that, and crime rates do show.

And to all the people who are for having a gun for personal safety: If you are not trained to use one professionally, odds are about greater than 50% that your weapon will be used against you.

Sure, where there's a will there's a way, but the average joe will have a hard time finding a gun if there's sufficient control. Guns are, btw, not a really lucrative business in smuggling, as they are made of metal, thus easy to detect, require ammo, are heavy, large and cheap. Drugs are much more profitable, a policeman told me.

Serbia, Bosnia, Chechens, Southern Russia, Croatia, Albania, Montenegro, Georgia, etc. Who doesn't have weapons in those places. Part of those cultures. They are as European as the gay Western European guys I see strutting through the Amsterdam airport when I am waiting for my connecting flight.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pb7QCf9WzS4
European gun skills. Amazing :crazy:

Oh yeah. European pickup method!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SEk_QNSiEms

Bling Bling European Style
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DBvzxUn-o-I&feature=related

And why Europe is so cool...Warlords!!!! Don't have those in America. Especially not ones who talk trash with America and Western Europe. Talk about having a pair. This dude was the ultimate peacocking warrior. Designed his own miltary uniforms for his own private army! I would pay top dollar for one of his courses (if he hadn't been taken out in his hotel).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ByVE1pkMc&feature=related

 

[The Inside Man]

Every school shooting I hear about convinces me more and more to go CCW. It's so ****ed up, pointless, and tragic. I am still in school and I just wonder, what in the f uck...theres been so many more of these type of shootings lately, not to mention malls, department stores... We are living in Hell.

 

[Ricky]

The copycat effect is what I'm worried about. And the more press events like this get, the more likely there is to be another copycat.

It's scary.

What exactly is CCW that the previous poster mentioned?

 

[Aboleo]

Yes, especially when the media won't shut up about it. The gunman's face is up on every news channel like a ****ing rock star... it's disgusting.

CCW = concealed carry weapon permit.

The purpose of guns isn't only for self-defense against individuals either. I would argue it's primary purpose is defense against an over-zealous Government.

Good point. Thats why we have the 2nd amendment in the first place.

 

[Capt.Jack Sparrow]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people

and if you say guns kill people

then... Spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat

 

[Ricky]

I remember when I was in high school. Back then if someone wanted to commit suicide they'd just kill themselves. Nowadays people are taking out other people. That's just wrong.

I got an email from a guy that sells martial arts videos. I've gotten tons of emails from his mailing list over the years but never bought it. But his recent video had to deal with how to react to armed gunmen. I'm actually interested in getting it, but it's expensive. Plus I'm not going to try to disarm the guy. The best advice I have is Run Forrest Run. Scary stuff.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I remember when I was in high school. Back then if someone wanted to commit suicide they'd just kill themselves. Nowadays people are taking out other people. That's just wrong...

Back then people were just depressed, they were turned in upon themselves. Nowadays people are angry and everyone else and can't cope. They want to get even without living through the consequences of their actions.

 

[Maxtro]

All of these shooters are very ill people. I'm pretty sure that every rampage ended with the shooter taking their own life. In other words every shooter was suicidal.

The problem isn't just about guns, it's also about society. There needs to be some kind of system where these psychos are found out and they are removed from the public before they become dangerous. One article I read said that the shooter was off his meds or something. When he was getting his prescription written he should have also be evaluated to make sure that he wasn't a danger to other people.

As for the guns, I don't think gun control is the answer. There should be a strict evaluation before anybody can get a gun and there should be a crack down on illegal gun sales.

I think automatic weapons should be banned, if they aren't already. I can understand wanting a gun to protect yourself and your family but do you need to fire ten rounds a second or what ever they do?

Granted I know next to nothing about guns but anything above the minimum is pointless.

Also I think that professors should carry a gun and be trained how to use them. If that's not possible then there should be a campus police officer in every building. I'm not sure how long the spree lasted but according to the link it was at least 30 minutes. If somebody nearby had a weapon they could have taken the shooter out within a few minutes.

 

[bigjohnson]

IIRC the VT shooter was a bonafide mental patient but privacy laws PREVENTED the gun dealer from finding that little tidbit out. I wouldn't be shocked if similar circumstances came to light here.

Where does a persons right to medical privacy end and my right to be safe begin? Why can't they just have a nondescriptive note available to law enforcement and such (background checks go via law enforcement I believe) that says "Joe Bob cannot purchase weapons (get a drivers license, whatever) until further notice"?

 

[Effington]

Initial reports have him pegged as a normal person; an NIU alumnus and a UIUC grad student. However, it's also mentioned that he was discharged from the military for psychological issues. I'm sure that will be played up more in the future, if those details are elaborated upon.

It goes without saying that anyone who shoots up a school has some issues. He had some mental issues and was on meds for them. What are we supposed to do, arrest people for not taking their drugs? I don't think that's a legitimate option. Unfortunately, as others have said, this kind of situation is virtually impossible to prevent.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I think automatic weapons should be banned, if they aren't already.

They are. Full autos are illegal under Federal law. They are some small loophole exceptions with the right paperwork in a very few instances where they can be legally owned, but again that is rare. They are more novelty than anything. Any gunsmith could very illegally convert a semi auto (one bullet per trigger pull) to a full auto; it's not hard. However, with most guns in most peoples' untrained hands, full auto is actually a disadvantage - you belch out all of your bullets in a very short and uncontrolled burst. I have shot the full auto M16, and the clip is gone in like a second and a half. Then you are defenseless until you can get a new clip into the weapon. I have only done this in Army war games, thankfully never live like the guys in Iraq right now, but it is not easy to find cover and reload a hot weapon at the same time. The new M16s are not full auto, they fire a three-round burst. You have to reload a lot less, and after three or four rounds of full auto, most people are just wasting bullets.

 

[Quiksilver]

I only have two things to add to this discussion...

1. Firearms should not be legally accessible to mentally disabled, mentally handicapped, or clinically depressed people.

2. There's been a long-standing media policy to NOT cover suicide stories. This is good because many suicides are just attention-seeking behaviors. School shootings are also attention-seeking behaviors and really just elaborate suicides(blowing ones own head off after shooting other students / forcing police to shoot you). These stories gaining wide recognition is just sending the message to other potential shooters that "I won't gain attention by shooting myself, but I will gain attention by shooting other people and then myself." Many of these school shootings are just people following in the footsteps of the columbine incident.

And about guns... If these kids were smart or thoughtful about what they were doing, they'd make an IED and walk into the class with it strapped to their chest a la suicide bomber.

 

[Last Man Standing]

All of these killers are on psychotropic drugs - it is not because they got off of them that makes them kill - it is because of these drugs that they kill!!

 

[bigjohnson]

They are. Full autos are illegal under Federal law. They are some small loophole exceptions with the right paperwork in a very few instances where they can be legally owned, but again that is rare.

That's actually untrue. It's easy and fairly cheap to legally own a fully automatic firearm. At one time the several hundred dollars required to get the tax stamp (an almost trivial bit of paperwork) was a lot of money but in an age when a good AR-15 target rifle will run you $1500 another few hundred isn't such a big deal.

Same with suppressors (AKA silencers) where a lot of people believe they are illegal when in fact any properly licensed dealer can get your papers done and sell a legally stamped suppressor to any law abiding citizen. In the case of the suppressor the tax stamp DOES increase the price dramatically but they are still only a few hundred dollars.