Guilt for hurting women. Where does this come from?

[newbie81]

Lately I have lots of conversations with a close friend, regarding his 6months LTR with a girl & the fact that he's fed up with the girl.

He's 27, she's 21, they rent a place together. From what I understand, his main reasons for dumping her is that he thinks he's too young to already settle down, he wants to meet other girls.

But he hasn't made any move in dumping her. His own words were: " She doesn't deserve this".

I reminded him that girls never spared him in previous LTR's, so he shouldn't spare this one either, even if she hasn't done him any harm (Probably because he changed from previous LTR's, which doesn't give her the chance to). I also told him that by not doing what he wants to do, he will be unhappy the rest of his life by staying with her.

Anyway, my question is not what he must do, or how he must do it.


My question is: Why this pseudo automatic trying to identify with how the women feels when the relationship ends?

When I ended my LTR 2 months ago, I felt fine for two weeks. Then feelings of guilt came up, guilt for what "I did to her"
The thing I did was to control my emotions by concentrating on the advantages it had to me and not about the effects it had on my ex-gf. Not controling my emotions was actually making me feel bad, making me feel the same way _I_thought_ she would be feeling at that time.

My opinion is that part of being a Man, is to taking decisions that can sometimes hurt people, but of which you know that it is the best thing to do (especially) for you and for them.

Where does this feeling of guilt for hurting people originate from?

-peace.

 

[TheTrader]

learned behaviour pattern.

 

[zafuhunter]

I think the guilt comes from (i) social conditioning about how relationships are supposed to be and (ii) the simple fact that you are a human being who has the capacity to empathize with others. It is an issue I have dealt with many times in the past. The lesson I'vc learnt is it is important to be honest with the other person about your expectations of the relationship. Even then, she might get hurt but you know that you did right by her so while you might feel compassion for her you don't have to feel guilty.

 

[WestCoaster]

"She doesn't deserve this"

Actually she does deserve the breakup. She deserves to not be tied down at 21, she deserves to make something of her life, perhaps get a degree and a career so she's not dumb, fat, and boring as she gets older.

And he deserves it, too. He deserves to explore the world, his career and his options out there. He's right, he is too young to be settling down ... if he did, he'd be bored in 7 years anyway and wondering WTF have I done.

One time I worked at a 7-11 when I was drifting in and out of college. I got fired. Did I "deserve it?"

Yep, I sure as hell did. Not only was I not cut out for the menial, mind-numbing work, it got me back to college where I belonged, where I graduated, and eventually got a much better and higher paying job than 7-f'n-11.

Sometimes we do deserve the tough decisions in our life, whether it makes one or both cry. Tough cookies.

What we deserve is the best out of life, whether that means breaking up, being fired, re-locating, changing careers, bidding slacker friends goodbye, divorces, etc. The tough decisions are emotional ones, but they are often necessary.

Too bad our stupid society doesn't tell anyone that.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

WC is right on the money, but I understand your friends guilt, because I felt the same when I broke up with my ex 4 months ago. Sometimes we are never satisfied with what we have and want to venture out into the world, but to do so we must break the heart of the person that we are with... All women are not evil and do not deserve an auto NEXT... I think your friend can empathize with how she is going to feel when he says--- you know what it's over I want to fk more girls. He's human.... don't let all this seduction shyt destroy your heart to the point that you just dont give a fk about anyone. I'm kind of glad that I've spent the last 8 months or so in 2 LTR's, because before them I was really getting out of hand with how I treated women. I think I even have an old post about becoming a socialpath.........

forgive my typos

 

[Latinoman]

My opinion is that part of being a Man, is to taking decisions that can sometimes hurt people, but of which you know that it is the best thing to do (especially) for you and for them.

I agree...but what makes a GREAT man is his ability to take those decisions (as described in the quote), even if he feels some guilt. Overcoming the guilt is part of being a man, and what helps you overcome the guilt? The knowledge that you did the right thing. Now...important thing is overcoming a LITTLE bit of guilt...and making that guilt into a COMPASSION.

Guilt is okay if TEMPORARY (a day here or there or even a few hours). Guilt comes from hurting an INNOCENT person. Then guilt becomes compassion (which is okay). I felt the same when I left my ex-wife after over a decade together. But, I STILL made my decision...because I knew it was the right one. And that knowledge allows me to look myself in the mirror. So, I overcame the guilt pretty quick.

See the difference? He is NOT making the RIGHT decision, because he feels guilt (even when it is the RIGHT decision).

I made my decision, even when I felt guilty about it for a moment...because regardless of the original guilt...I know I made the right decision. And having that knowledge make me overcome that guilt and instead feel some compassion. And now I feel great. I can look at myself in the mirror (in fact, I could look at myself in the mirror from the moment I made the decions: the right decision).

 

[d9930380]

The reason women have NO problem with it is and this is being serious (not just another woman hater) is that they don't think men have emotions or at least don't care.

When a friend's gf was asking her friend about breaking up etc., they where going through problems. Her response "Sure he's just a man"

Men on the other hand see ALL girls as little princesses even if they don't like to admit it. That's the reason crying etc works. I've seen some real *****es (total players/teases etc) use crying and immediately ALL The men are sympatic and if you say anything. YOU look like a **** even though these girls don't give a **** about a man's feelings.

It's a woman's world.

Tell him to dump her - it doesn't matter how. She will get over it. Keeping her hanging on will just make it worse for her in the long term.

 

[DJDamage]

The reason women have NO problem with it is and this is being serious (not just another woman hater) is that they don't think men have emotions or at least don't care.

I disagree with this statement. Women are emotional creatures and their emotions tend to dictate and overide their moves. As a result women are very self absorbs creature's since they tend to care more of how they feel as oppose to how someone else feels.

When a woman's interest level is low she has no real emotional connection with you anymore and thus she will start to feel bored and will associate you with boredom which is a negative emotion. She will then seek out another male who will make her happy and excited thus transmitt all of her energy and resources into him. Thus the real reason a woman doesn't really show any emotion when she dumps you is because SHE NO LONGER CARES ABOUT YOU. If she doesn't care about you anymore then there is no reason on her part to put out all effort not to hurt you.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

women suck, and I wish I didn't have a need for them.

 

[d9930380]

DJDamage - All good in theory. The point I was making wasn't that women don't have emotions, just that they don't think men do (at least to the same degree). They think that men are mostly after sex, not love and companionship. That's the reason why when they're no-longer happy in the relationship - they have NO problem ending it with a guy. The same with even rejecting guys etc. They expect guys to be "a man" not a wuss. It's also the reason why they don't like getting into relationships with sensitive men. They don't want guys to have feelings, they want guys to be able to read and react to their feelings. They're not there to be the emotional tampon of some dude. They might make a girly friend out of a sensitive guy but not a lover. When it comes to women: It's ALL about them, we get sex in payment.

I'm I wrong here? Please, tell me. I would love to be however from what I've seen then that's not the case.

 

[d9930380]

Espi - I certainly did. And yes I was a total AFC, now a RAFC. They also know this and use it to manipulate men. As I said before, a friend's gf told me she used to tell new bfs that she was raped and that was just to manipulate them. A girl also told me that too, she played the little lost girl and I fell in love. Unfortunately while it was the truth she had long gotten over it and it was simply a play for my sympathy.

Women USE their vulnerbility.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

It's hard saying NO to a girl when she begs and does that whole pouty face thing.

 

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

I have to add something here.

I think you will all agree, women are more emotional then man in most cases.
They "feel" things and many times they react to feelings rather then facts.

I do, even though I am working hard not to, it is instinct almost and something hard to overcome.

You can not take responsibility for a woman’s emotions; they are hers and something she should deal with. In truth, I feel the only time you should deal with her emotions are if you caused them.

You all have minor boundaries set in your life,
-who you will loan your car to,
-what movies you won't waste you money on,
-how much you drink when you go out.

You all have extreme boundaries,
-will you put up with a woman that cheats
-will you join or convert to a religion
-will you try/use street drugs
-will you tolerate being lied to

These personal lines in the sand, so to say, must include reactions to women’s emotions. You can decide now if this is a boundary you are going to establish.

I have done this in my own life, it seems to work well. I don't pull him in, I don't expect tears from him when I have them, I don't expect anger from him when I am mad and when I get all gitty about a friend having a baby, it is ok for him to say "that's nice" and go on with what he is doing. What I do expect is for him not to tell me I am wrong or "being silly". I do expect the freedom and time to deal with them and get over it, this is something he is willing to give.

I think the guilt you feel is your habit of accepting responsibilities for her emotions.

I know men that feel they have to manage a woman’s emotion,
-if she is sad he will go as far as to make balloon animals to cheer her,
-if she is thrilled about a friend having a baby he acts thrilled too (when in truth, it means very little),
-if she is mad he tries to resolve her issues or he gets mad too
-if she is depressed or quiet he digs until he finds the source (if there is one)

I am not saying to tell her these emotions are wrong, just make her aware of your personal boundary of NOT GETTING SUCKED in.

Ending a relationship isn't easy, but if it is not satisfying, fulfilling or what you are really wanting, then it must be done. You can't just stay with her to avoid turbulence. So, you upset the boat and end it. She (and you) will hurt, but she (and you) will climb to new heights in a more fulfilling relationship. Guilt would come if you tried to make it last, denying you both better.

 

[Titanium]

newbie81, I think this is a pretty astute topic, and one that anyone in the dating field should really think about for themselves.

To comment in general terms...yes, its very easy to control ones emotions. You can tell yourself that you don't care, and that what you do to someone else is 'okay'...feelings of hurt and guilt can easily be pushed away. I've spent some of my life doing that in relationships, and it worked out really well for several years.

While no one actually has to listen to me....it is my firm belief that if one attempts to control their emotions to any significant extent, they will eventually end up in a f*cked up place.

Its not so much what we do to another person, its what we do to ourselves when a situation makes us feel 'guilty', or when we sense that something is wrong. Guilt is a very personal thing. It can mean, to some extent, you've ignored, or are about to ignore, some aspect of your personal values.

Without trying to sound repetitive (because I've said this somewhere before)...never ignore your personal values no matter what. Every person has them - define them, recognize what they are, and don't try to fool or bluff yourself on them, ever.

In the scenario you've described above, the guy is feeling guilty, possibly the same way he would feel guilty for letting down a friend. Perhaps his values tell him that its a bad thing. In that case its good to listen to those feelings rather than numb them - even if the decision (to break up) still has to be made.

Albeit, there are times when we feel guilty to our own detriment, and for no good reason. Weak individuals tend to inflict them as their own means to survive. Those ones are entirely ignorable. Each individual has to make this distinction for themselves.



The thing I did was to control my emotions by concentrating on the advantages it had to me and not about the effects it had on my ex-gf. Not controling my emotions was actually making me feel bad, making me feel the same way _I_thought_ she would be feeling at that time.

My opinion is that part of being a Man, is to taking decisions that can sometimes hurt people, but of which you know that it is the best thing to do (especially) for you and for them.

What you said above is true to a degree. But there is a rather delicate balance here. Unless a person is a genuine psychopath (void of the ability to feel and empathize), whatever we do to someone else, we are also doing to ourselves. You may not feel it at the time, but life is long, and it tends to have its after effects. We have to be sure and comfortable and sturdy in our decisions. Denial, or making up grandiose reasons for ourselves and our own behavior is a destructive path to be on.

That said - if I had to end a relationship tomorrow under the scenario you've described, I would be as honest with myself and with the other person, as much as I could possibly be. If I truly believed it was the right thing to do for myself, then I wouldn't be afraid to face the emotional consequence. We can not live our lives with out consequence ...and fear should not tempt us to think we can over rule that. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Titanium]

I agree...but what makes a GREAT man is his ability to take those decisions (as described in the quote), even if he feels some guilt. Overcoming the guilt is part of being a man, and what helps you overcome the guilt? The knowledge that you did the right thing. Now...important thing is overcoming a LITTLE bit of guilt...and making that guilt into a COMPASSION.

Guilt is okay if TEMPORARY (a day here or there or even a few hours). Guilt comes from hurting an INNOCENT person. Then guilt becomes compassion (which is okay). I felt the same when I left my ex-wife after over a decade together. But, I STILL made my decision...because I knew it was the right one. And that knowledge allows me to look myself in the mirror. So, I overcame the guilt pretty quick.

See the difference? He is NOT making the RIGHT decision, because he feels guilt (even when it is the RIGHT decision).

I made my decision, even when I felt guilty about it for a moment...because regardless of the original guilt...I know I made the right decision. And having that knowledge make me overcome that guilt and instead feel some compassion. And now I feel great. I can look at myself in the mirror (in fact, I could look at myself in the mirror from the moment I made the decions: the right decision).

Right on.

 

[Titanium]

I think you will all agree, women are more emotional then man in most cases.
They "feel" things and many times they react to feelings rather then facts.

Agreed. I think both men and women are equally emotional, but women tend to relate their experiences through their emotions. It is that way for many / and probably most women....although I can't say I can relate to that myself.


I know men that feel they have to manage a woman’s emotion,
-if she is sad he will go as far as to make balloon animals to cheer her


Yikes.

 

[Vulpine]

This is partially where the expression "living your life to please others" originates.

I too have been guilty of being a big softy in the past (AFC). It would seem that I would rather stay in a bummer relationship than inflict any harm or duress on the other person. Oops. Did it do anything for me? Did I get any appreciation or win a prize? No. In the end, I ended up wasting much of my life with worthless women, and I alone was punished for my "niceness".

To change, I needed to prioritize my wants/wishes/desires/future over those of the women/friends/family/coworkers in my life. I needed to lookout for numero uno, the big cheese, ME! Does that mean I didn't feel sorry for people who I would kick out of my life? No, my feelings/thoughts just took on a different verbage:

"Awww... that's too bad for them. I AM pretty awesome, I'm sure they're gonna miss me. Muahaha! Ahh well, they shoulda recognized what they had while they had it/not cheated/treated me with respect/payed more attention/lost weight/gave me a raise/showed up on time/etc. when they had the chance. Boo-hoo. They'll get over it. I hope they'll learn from this."

Am I some kind of heartless d!ckhead for living with my best interests as the priority? A better question is, is anyone living their lives with MY best interests as THEIR priority? Same answer.