good example of female rationalization

[iqqi]

see, this is the problem with americans, if anything relates to race they call it racist.

pro same-race marriage people are merely saying that it is better for the child. not that a white child is better than a black child, or that whites are better than blacks.

just like some people feel its better for a child to be raised by two heterosexual people instead of two gay people. it doesn't mean they hate gays or think gays are inferior. it just means they don't feel two gay people, in general, can raise a child as well as a heterosexual mother and father.

now if the child was gay, then people might say it would be better raised BY two gay parents.

you see, its not even that the gay people can't DO the job just as well. they may conceed that they can. but they may feel simply as a result of psycho-social conditioning that a child is better served with heterosexual parents.

once again, you can call them ignorant, you can call the naive, but you wouldn't be able to call them prejudice against gays. they don't hate gays. they don't feel gays are inferior. etc. they simply feel that a child is best served by have heterosexual parents. simple as that.

the ONLY thing im saying is that you can be pro same-race marriage without being a racist.

moreover, THIS IS THE NORM!!!! i dont know the official stats, but id say proably about 70% of marriages are same-race marriages. its NOT that peopel are racist, its that they have a natural inclination to mate with members of their own race.

as time as the races mingle and mixed raced children become the norm, it will be a moot point. but until then its the norm - but it does not mean that peopel are racist.

Joekerr... it is normal to see mixed race children. They are everywhere! They are right here on your forum! They might not be the majority, but they are normal. They aren't abnormal!

And it is nowhere near the same thing as adoption. You are implying that the children aren't raised by their natural biological parents! Who probably aren't all the same race themselves! Pure races are what is not ordinary.

Besides, having gay parents is the controversial thing these days. Not interacial parents. That was controversial decades ago.

And this whole thing about children has nothing to do with marriages or relationships between two people. That is why I asked you in a previous post, what would you do if you met a hot black chic, or latina, and she was the one who you just clicked with?

Would you not consider her? Because yes it is your preference of course, but it is still racist, because you have made that call based solely on her race as your reason.

It is what it is. Racism does relate to race! When a person is judged by their race or discriminated (that is what you are doing when you say you won't date the chick), base on their race, it is racism.

You don't have to hate blacks or hang nooses in trees to be racist.

Being absolute in how you would treat a person, based soley on their race, is good enough.

Mac said it best. Almost everyone is racist, it is hard to overcome that way of thinking.

If you really want to see some racism that is not even hidden, ask an African what they think of Black Americans! Lol. The older generation won't bat an eyelash to tell you what they think. Most arabs hate white people! So do a lot of hispanics. We are gringos!

 

[iqqi]

good post wjh.

while its off topic, its an interesting discussion on how people judge others.

I agree. And I think the discussion so far hasn't turned ugly, even you and I are slightly offended by each other's view points.

 

[MacAvoy]

Mac said it best.

Repeat to yourself 1000 times daily :crackup:

 

[joekerr31]

I agree. And I think the discussion so far hasn't turned ugly, even you and I are slightly offended by each other's view points.

im not offended by your view point in the least - i just think you're off the mark on this one and i agree, the convo hasn't gone ugly :rock:

i think your view is very well intentioned, but over extends what we really should be classifying as racist views.

but like i say, i think part of the difference here is that im canadian. things are different up here as Mac would probably agree with. most races up here are able to remain distinct and seperate in some ways and totally integrated in others. people still have a racial identity yet they are in no way racist.

i guess its almost like everyone has pride in their own race, but is fully respectful of all the other races as well.

 

[MacAvoy]

Joeker is right about the dynamics of race in Canada vs US. As a result, we don't have as much racism in my opinion but we have considerably less National Pride as a result. Heres something I found when I searched melting pot:

Canada is internationally recognized as a culturally diverse nation that emphasizes the concept of "The Mosaic". No other country in the world encompasses inhabitants from so many different backgrounds who exhibit strong loyalty towards Canada, while still preserving their cultural heritage. This is contrasted to the American ideal of the "Melting Pot", which attempts to shape all of their citizens into a set mold. Canada's philosophy is believed to be more effective and respectful than that which is possessed by our American neighbours

What the paper outlined about looks at is just culture alone so its biased and doesn't look at the rest of the impacts on society.

 

[joekerr31]

haha, i've worked with lots of arabs, none of them hated me.

im telling ya, this conversation has really impressed upon me the dif between canada and the usa in terms of how race is viewed.

the way americans look at race is very different than how canadians do. Mac's recent post is bang on the money.

all i can tell you is that my experience of race in canada is that most peopel dont even think about it. in a given corporate environment there will be something like 40% white, 20% oriental, 20% indian and muslim, and 20% other (there aren't many mexicans or black people in canada for some reason).

anyway, an indian might still believe in arranged marriages within the indian culture. i don't for a single second see him as being racist against me because he doesn't want me marrying his daughter. i respect his belief and culture and take absolutely no offence to it.

who the h*ll am I to tell him that his culture is racist and that he i should be able to feed his daughter some white meat?

this american attitude of 'if you don't do it our way its wrong - we're right and we will save / free you from your ignorance' is bullsh*t. its what leads you to shove democracy down iraqs throat (but hey, so far its only cost about a million iraqi lives).

 

[Phyzzle]

i think part of the difference here is that im canadian. things are different up here

This may be the case. Americans do have a rep for being over-sensitive for any hint of racism.

So maybe I'm falling victim to this, when I say that disapproval of interracial marriages in general is absolutely racist, and it's very strange that anyone could possibly suggest otherwise unless they're joking.

an indian might still believe in arranged marriages within the indian culture. i don't for a single second see him as being racist against me because he doesn't want me marrying his daughter.

Not wanting a white guy - ANY white guy - to marry ANY Indian woman is racist. He can approve or disapprove of his daughters or suitors according to his whims. But a blanket disapproval of the entire white race for some particular purpose is racism.

i respect his belief and culture and take absolutely no offence to it.

The fact that it is his culture, does not make it non-racist. Cultures can be racist.

 

[ketostix]

And back to the point of the OP, even if the BF was racist (and I'm with Joekerr that it's not necessarily the case) she knew what his stance was and she still aired this publically to shame and embarass him. That's the main point and it still sounds.

 

[ketostix]

Not wanting a white guy - ANY white guy - to marry ANY Indian woman is racist. He can approve or disapprove of his daughters or suitors according to his whims. But a blanket disapproval of the entire white race for some particular purpose is racism.

So if a white woman doesn't want to date any white guys, or a black guy doesn't want to date any black women, does that mean they're racist too?

 

[MacAvoy]

So if a white woman doesn't want to date any white guys, or a black guy doesn't want to date any black women, does that mean they're racist too?

I wouldn't enter an LTR with 99.9% of women from my race.

 

[Phyzzle]

So if a white woman doesn't want to date any white guys, or a black guy doesn't want to date any black women, does that mean they're racist too?

Yes. Of course they are.

What are you? Canadian?

I guess this will be turned into a race thread and closed. I can't help it. I just can't fathom the notion that the term 'racism' only applies to jobs or housing. It has the same name, even when applied to personal preferences in relationships - especially when those relationships are SOMEONE ELSE'S, and some guy disapproves of the fact that some random Jack or Jenny he doesn't even know might get into an interracial relationship.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I'm proud to be a non-racist for completely selfish reasons actually.

I've found, that I'm attracted to hot women of all different cultures, colors, and creeds.

Therefore, I believe, that all races are equal and all these hotties are equally available for the pickings.

But that's just me.

 

[joekerr31]

The fact that it is his culture, does not make it non-racist. Cultures can be racist.

well 95% of the world has racist cultures then.

hopefully mccain gets elected though and america can cleanse the world of this transcendent challenge of radical racism.

 

[joekerr31]

So if a white woman doesn't want to date any white guys, or a black guy doesn't want to date any black women, does that mean they're racist too?

well, based on iqqi's arguements, its not racist unless you actually admit it.

if you SAY you would never date a black woman, then you are a racist. but if you don't say anythign and just never date them, well, thats ok i guess - as long as you don't point out that people have racial preferences then we can let it slide.

 

[joekerr31]

Yes. Of course they are.

What are you? Canadian?

I guess this will be turned into a race thread and closed. I can't help it. I just can't fathom the notion that the term 'racism' only applies to jobs or housing. It has the same name, even when applied to personal preferences in relationships - especially when those relationships are SOMEONE ELSE'S, and some guy disapproves of the fact that some random Jack or Jenny he doesn't even know might get into an interracial relationship.

im telling ya, not trying to be harsh guys, but people in america don't realize how much they catagorize almost everythign as racist or non racist.

its so different up here in canada. we all get along. no one has any problems with anyone really. if you are indian and only date indians, no big deal, no one thinks of it as racist, its your choice.

even if some indian girl wanted to a date a white man and her father wouldn't let her, it still wouldn't be seen as racist, but rather as a dogmatic attachment to old fashion culture clashing with modern society. people would still get that its not that he hates the white guy, or thinks the white guy is lesser, but simply rather that its not how their culture does things.

people might call him ignorant, old fashioned, mean, stupid, etc. but no one would think to call him racist. unless of course he came out and said 'white people are the devil.' or something silly like that.

im sure some of you have been to canada. i've met lots of guys from the US up here on business. and one of the things they always tell me is they are shocked at how nice everyone is and how no one seems to care at all about race.

like all things, america gets fanatical about things and gets all extreme and unbalanced.

im 100% against racism, but i don't think some white kid who refuses to wear baggy pants is a racist.

 

[iqqi]

but even in that scenario, he says one thing and then is off banging an oriental woman (he was caucasian).

Just wanted to tell ya that oriental is a description for a rug, not a person.

Most asians I know get p!ssed when someone calls them oriental. Its like calling a black person colored.

 

[joekerr31]

Just wanted to tell ya that oriental is a description for a rug, not a person.

Most asians I know get p!ssed when someone calls them oriental. Its like calling a black person colored.

sorry im from canada. i could call an oriental person a wok and they just think i had a bad sense of humor, not that i was racist. :rock:

 

[iqqi]

Originally Posted by ketostix
So if a white woman doesn't want to date any white guys, or a black guy doesn't want to date any black women, does that mean they're racist too?

Yes. Of course they are.

What are you? Canadian?

I guess this will be turned into a race thread and closed. I can't help it. I just can't fathom the notion that the term 'racism' only applies to jobs or housing. It has the same name, even when applied to personal preferences in relationships - especially when those relationships are SOMEONE ELSE'S, and some guy disapproves of the fact that some random Jack or Jenny he doesn't even know might get into an interracial relationship.

Phyzzle nailed it.


This is actually the most diplomatic thread I've ever seen on here about race.

Anyways, the fact that Joekerr is very sensitive about us telling him his view is racist is good. He is thoughtful, and might think about it now.

Besides. If you think finding a good woman is hard, it is 99x harder when you shut out most of the world trying to find yourself a good white girl.

Most white girls I know are stuck up and narrow minded. Yes, I am white. And yes, that was a racist statement.

 

[MacAvoy]

sorry im from canada. i could call an oriental person a wok and they just think i had a bad sense of humor, not that i was racist. :rock:

and that is the difference between here and there


edit: when I first made the comment, I thought Joeker said he could call someone at woRk an oriental and they would think he has a bad sense of humour. but for the most part, he really wouldn't get into much trouble because in Canada were trained to be more passive, so it would slide because the Asian, would take it for what it was and not get all worked up bout racism unless he's made other comments that were derogatory.

 

[STR8UP]

Just wanted to tell ya that oriental is a description for a rug, not a person.

Most asians I know get p!ssed when someone calls them oriental. Its like calling a black person colored.

Wow....iqqi and I were thinking the exact same thing. Is Armageddon upon us?

But not believing in interracial marriage does NOT necessarily make you a racist. Kinda dumb, but not racist. (Three of my absolutely GORGEOUS nieces who I ADORE are half latino, btw)

This guy KNEW it would be taken the wrong way by most people, and he had every right to be pissed. I would like to think that I would have dumped the b!tch right then and there.