Going Steady

[Connect4]

sweett post..

 

[swifTy]

i can feel the wisdom leaping off the page!!

fingerz; some great perspective there. a good read. thankyou.

 

[iqqi]

"There are no good woman left!"

:wave: I'm back on the market!!!



Lol.

 

[fertileTurtle]

When a girl senses you have more options than she does, her competitive nature kicks in and she will go out of her way to please and keep you around.

Yeah, but when you are looking for a long-term relationship, is that what you want a woman to be motivated by--her desire to feel like she is better than other women because she can win a contest? In a long term relationship, the woman who sticks with you despite the fact you may not have other options in place of maybe something more important, like similar beliefs and life goals, is the better choice in my eyes.

 

[Señor Fingers]

"opposites attract" vs "birds of a feather flock together"

and "egoistical taking of the jerk" vs "true don giving without wanting anything in return"

There is no black and white answer here. The key is striking a balance between extremes. You dont want someone who is on a completely different wavelength, but it can be boring to have too many similarities. Like I said, some common ground is necessary, just don't be narcissistic and date yourself.

The same applies to giving and taking. I'm not sure what's worse, a selfish parasite or a human doormat. Once again its a balancing act. You are generous, but only with people who earn your generosity. It sounds like common sense, but most of us learn this the hard way.

I'm back on the market!!!

There goes the neighborhood

Yeah, but when you are looking for a long-term relationship, is that what you want a woman to be motivated by--her desire to feel like she is better than other women because she can win a contest?

The advice I gave is for when you are just starting out. If you already know you have a keeper on your hands, then you don't need to be a playboy.

But on the flip side of the argument, sometimes you have to be a player in order to find someone worth keeping.

When I met my wife I had 3 fukkbuddies. She watched me date random girls here and there and even knew I was seeing other women when we first started out. But since we had known each other so long and the chemistry was amazing, I forot all about those other girls because wifey was giving me everything I needed.

In a long term relationship, the woman who sticks with you despite the fact you may not have other options in place of maybe something more important, like similar beliefs and life goals, is the better choice in my eyes.

I agree that sharing core values is a prerequisite. My point is that you stand a better chance of finding someone truly compatible by "shopping around"

I see too many guys settling for scraps when they could be getting a grade A woman. I dont just mean physically ..Im talking about a good, compatible and supportive woman who makes you a better man. They are quite rare!

In the end it really is a numbers game and by dating several chicks, you increase your odds of finding one worth holding on to.

 

[iqqi]

I had actually wrote a much longer post after my initial JOKING reply, but the site went down for hours. I lost everything I wrote before I could hit submit, I hate when that happens! LOL!


Anyways, here is the condensed version: besides all the other completely excellent things you wrote, I must highly commend this part:

When it comes to a quality lady, nothing seduces more effectively than sincerity, confidence and charm.

This it the truth! A man should be sincere in his actions, confident in his abilities and self, and charming is the icing on the cake. These three qualities are more important than HEIGHT, and even looks. Believe it or not! In other sosuavy words, having those 3 qualities will up your scale rating BY FAR.



Besides that, the excellent detailed instructions on oral sex were very right on, most men will never understand any of intricasies of the punani and its varities.

I think every boy here should print that out and refer to it before any big night.

 

[just another newb??]

on the giving vs taking part I belive we are all born here to be contributers.

The point that is missed is that the "doormat" isnt usually a genuine giver because he always has an outcome in mind. Either boosting his self-esteem, gaining accpetance etc.

Our purpose here on this planet seems to be : We need to become powerful and strong enough inside so we can start to give and contribute to the world.

Think about mother theresa, could we consider the fact that she was a doormat? I doubt it, but even if she were, she earns more of my respect than any jerk ever could.

 

[logic1]

A woman either values her sexuality or she does not. She will show her true colors very quickly so don't be blinded by that innocent, pretty face. Watch how she handles herself and treat her accordingly.

I would like someone to break this qoute down. I feel I know what its about but want different opinions.

I'm looking for something deeper in a relationship or LTR. That is why I have trouble buying into the fawking her by the 3rd date way of thinking. Also, I think I read where if they make you wait for the sex it not worth it. Maybe this qoute says something about the women you are dating.

I'm tired of the ONS and the women who are fast. It seems they are the ones who end up having issues. I even have different type of feelings after a ONS the next morning. Something don't feel right.

If I feel I'm dating a qaulity women the sex is not important in the first month. I know a qaulity women because I was married to one for 18 years so I will take my time to find another like her and if that means the sex is on hold, so be it.

Is my thinking flawed? Is it possible a good women will wait because she knows after the sex she is more emotionally tied to you? She wants to see the true you before she gets her emotions tied up with you. Or is this her way of taking control of the relationship.

I would really like SF to break his qoute down . What he is really talking about.

I need some thoughts.

 

[Señor Fingers]

I'm looking for something deeper in a relationship or LTR. That is why I have trouble buying into the fawking her by the 3rd date way of thinking. Also, I think I read where if they make you wait for the sex it not worth it. Maybe this qoute says something about the women you are dating.

While generally true, it's actually a little more complicated than that.

If I feel I'm dating a qaulity women the sex is not important in the first month.

You can't always link the amount of time a girl holds out to her quality because there are fringe cases.. sometimes a quality lady will not be able to help herself because you seduced her so well, or maybe there is an incredible connection and you will get the green light sooner instead of later.

In cases where she holds out, the woman might have issues with sex, or maybe she is religious and won't do anything before marriage. Anything is possible.

This is why your greatest allies here are observation, experience and patience. You date enough girls, you start seeing a pattern of things you do not want, something in your guts sends warning signals.

The trick is to never become blinded by her beauty or too eager to close the deal. Laidback, calculated and relaxed is the best manner to proceed. You know you have options and this empowers you with choice.

Personally I would always screen the girl hardcore. Pretty face or no, she is definitely on trial from the jump. One item of conversation I always steer towards is relationships. In a playful way, I reverse-qualify them to see if they value loyalty.

First I let them know that I like bad girls who misbehave. Plant that seed and keep talking about other stuff... later on I will ask if they ever cheated, in a "Come on, who hasn't kind of tone". More than half of them admit they have and for me that's a huge strike against them. Sure people can change, but in my experience, once a hoe, always a hoe.

If she is lying just to impress me as a "bad girl", well then I don't want anything to do with her either...she's a poser willing to compromise her values to impress someone...NEXT!

My wife was the first woman in a long time that I met who was proud of being faithful. In our convos she echoed my sentiments about how sad it is that so many people cheat. And it wasn't just talk either. She had a boyfriend at the time and even with my best DJing she stood by him (the guy didnt even treat her well) That earned my respect and trust.

In contrast, looking back at the girls who played me, they all shared certain characteristics

- Left their boyfriend to be with me
- Had too many guy friends
- Dressed very slutty with or without me
- Thrived off male attention (even though they complain about it)
- Flirted constantly, claiming it was harmless
- Tried using sex (or lack thereof) to control me
- Fathers were also cheaters (many women do this to get revenge on their dads..its weird)
- Were not even that loyal to their friends

These are all traits of women who are CHEAP. If the poon had a pricetag, it would say

NO FRILLS CLEARANCE SALE. ALL PVSSY MUST GO!!

I'm tired of the ONS and the women who are fast. It seems they are the ones who end up having issues. I even have different type of feelings after a ONS the next morning. Something don't feel right.

It's not so much a question of right or wrong. I know guys that are perfectly happy to bang random chicks as often as possible. This is really just your own morals and preferences at play here. Deep down you know you are not player material.. you are more romantic and relish the ideals of commitment and deep connection with a soul mate. ONS is just not right for you.

I know a qaulity women because I was married to one for 18 years

I'm almost scared to ask, but what happened?

Is my thinking flawed? Is it possible a good women will wait because she knows after the sex she is more emotionally tied to you? She wants to see the true you before she gets her emotions tied up with you.

The general rule of thumb is that she must put up some token resistance and make you work for it. A quality women is screening you just as much as you are screening her and wants to make sure you are the real deal before she jumps on board. Sex is indeed an emotional investment for a woman of virtue.

Hoes could not care less, for them sex is "liberation" and they can even be aggressive sometimes in trying to seduce you. Definitely no good for LTR!

Nature dictates that men pursue and women make them chase. Ever watch pigeons in their mating rights (or most animals for that matter)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_4pkNspN3s

They always make him chase, and maybe do a little dance while he's at it.

Now some hardened DJs on this forum will protest and say "That's not right! When you are alpha/DJ/PUA, the women chase you"

I'm sorry but that is total BS. It is always our job to pursue and conquer. Anyone who says different is living in his own masturbatory fantasy land. She only chases you after you have shown your manhood, which is characterized by initiative, confidence and PERSISTENCE.

She wants to see the true you before she gets her emotions tied up with you.

Yup

Or is this her way of taking control of the relationship.

In some ways it is, but that should not deter you. We are all looking for power and control in these situations, espeecially at the start. It's often wise not to put all your playing cards on the table before you really know how the game is shaping up.

The only time a women will use sex to manipulate (in a bad way) is once you are already together and she uses it as leverage to get what she wants. This could mean one of three things

1. You are not sexing her properly. If you were, she would not be able to hold out
2. She has never enjoyed sex and has always done it to appease her man
3. She was abused or raped and has real issues

1 is fixable. You just need to educate yourself on female anatomy and maybe even study up on some tantra/karma-sutra/etc. Here is something to whet your appetite

2 is just as fixable, using the same methods as number 1.

3 is most complicated and there is no guarantee that you will ever pull her out of the psychological hole. Unless you have an inherent gift for helping people understand and transcend their problems (and the patience of a saint), this work is usually best suited for a professional. You should be supportive, but face the possibility of moving on if she can't get past it.

As we can clearly see, relationships are not a simple affair! It's easy to understand why most people shy away. There really are some crazy/loser/psycho motherfukcers out there and even if you get lucky and find a keeper, you both still have to put in a lot of effort to make it work.

But when your heads and hearts are both in the right place, the rewards far exceed the efforts.

 

[juice veteran]

after reading senor fingers e book it becomes clear that this is man who worked on himself and became a true example to us all.

 

[logic1]

Senor Fingers

Thanks for the input. As for as your question as to what happened to my 18 year marriage. An automobile accident took her life.

So, I was thrown into the singles world in my 40's. Needless to say I was burned big time when I first tried my hand at dating. I knew something was not being done right. I found this site and it has helped tremendously. A lot of the posters who give advice have their sh*t together.

I have been trying to remember back how I dated my deceased wife, what I looked for, ect. She was a good one. My lifestyle is more geared to having a partner in life. I dont have time to worry about chasing women. To many other irons in the fire.

I have been dating a few women and one is sticking out more than the rest. The part that is bothering me is we have not had sex , yet. Alot of the information on here leans toward the idea this is a red flag. She is not like the other ones. But I'm not going to drop her because of it. She has her head screwed on straight.

As you suggested I'm being patient and taking my time. Getting my sexual needs fulfilled with the other women. Definantly watching for the red flags. But naturally gun shy because of the past experiences. I think I will read your response to me a couple of times. Very good!!! It will be a big help.

This is hard at my age and I'm sure there are others my age with the same difficulty.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Fukk dude, I'm really sorry for your loss.

I hope you have given yourself enough time to heal from that experience, though it sounds like you are on the track.

As for the woman in question, it's hard to make a call without knowing whats going on.

- How long have you been dating
- How far has it gone
- How often do you guys hang out together
- What makes her stand out to you

 

[comic_relief]

there is many comments that i had with reading about this post. i can only think of one right now because of interruptions from class, friends, girlfriend, and roommate. I now have a bit of time to reply.

The post was a very good one.

On decisiveness: I have been reaping the rewards of being decisive recently. Two examples is that I was in New Jersey and she wanted to get some sleep, but her friends wanted to go out and have fun. I simply said, "What do you want to do?" She said, "I just want to sleep." I just said, "Alright, here's what is going to happen. We are going to go to bed." She ate that up and thanked me later for it.

I was also planning a date with my girlfriend out and her friends wanted to change our plan. she said that she didn't know what to do. I looked at the friends and said, "change your plans because we have a date planned."

On Getting real: I have found that this is the best advice. I believe that you must be congruent on the inside and outside. If you are congruent, then you will most likely be able to find what you want. You won't only be able to find what you want, but also what you don't want. Just another newb, wrote an amazing article on this that I would suggest for more reading.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132460

On Pretty ain't perfect: I know that this is true with people that are so used to being given special convenience for everything. When you treat her just like everyone else, they just b!tch and b1tch and b1tch about it until you give in. I had this recently with a friend and she would always wallow in it but get satisfaction about her problems. my friends and I just got tired of it and treated her just like everyone else. She did a bunch of sh@t and we dropped her. If someone is taking down your level of happiness, than you should take a step away or get the hell out.

On Attracting the right energy: I believe this is the reason many people say that there are no good girls or guys



The general rule of thumb is that she must put up some token resistance and make you work for it. A quality women is screening you just as much as you are screening her and wants to make sure you are the real deal before she jumps on board. Sex is indeed an emotional investment for a woman of virtue.

 

[wayword]

First I let them know that I like bad girls who misbehave. Plant that seed and keep talking about other stuff... later on I will ask if they ever cheated, in a "Come on, who hasn't kind of tone". More than half of them admit they have and for me that's a huge strike against them. Sure people can change, but in my experience, once a hoe, always a hoe.

If she is lying just to impress me as a "bad girl", well then I don't want anything to do with her either...she's a poser willing to compromise her values to impress someone...NEXT!

My wife was the first woman in a long time that I met who was proud of being faithful. In our convos she echoed my sentiments about how sad it is that so many people cheat. And it wasn't just talk either. She had a boyfriend at the time and even with my best DJing she stood by him (the guy didnt even treat her well) That earned my respect and trust.

In contrast, looking back at the girls who played me, they all shared certain characteristics

- Left their boyfriend to be with me
- Had too many guy friends
- Dressed very slutty with or without me
- Thrived off male attention (even though they complain about it)
- Flirted constantly, claiming it was harmless
- Tried using sex (or lack thereof) to control me
- Fathers were also cheaters (many women do this to get revenge on their dads..its weird)
- Were not even that loyal to their friends

These are all traits of women who are CHEAP.

VERY TRUE! Great tests & checklist!

I would also add a red flag being a distant or non-existent relationship with her BIOLOGICAL daddy. This causes a gaping "daddyhole" that she will try to keep filling with male-validational kawk over and over. It's basically the textbook recipe for the type of attention-horing, cheating woman you describe...because just one man is never enough.

 

[logic1]

Fukk dude, I'm really sorry for your loss.

I hope you have given yourself enough time to heal from that experience, though it sounds like you are on the track.

As for the woman in question, it's hard to make a call without knowing whats going on.

- How long have you been dating
- How far has it gone
- How often do you guys hang out together
- What makes her stand out to you

It took a while but I'm healed, it happened 5 years ago. Decided to start getting out and looking about 2 years ago.

Dating about 5 weeks. Never flakes

Mild make out sessions. I don't push the issue or talk about it or expect it.
What I sense from her is she wants to but has reservations like if I go through with this I will fall bigtime for him or is a commitment in her mind she would have to follow thru with. Senses she does not want to make a mistake. And no I can almost gaurentee I'm not in the friendzone. I know.

Once a week, sometimes 2, actually 6 total.

She is cool, different, intellegent. We are from the farm country of the midwest so we hang out doing different things than maybe the big city people would do. Like fishing, shooting. You get the idea.

She reciprocates. If I do something to benefit her she will do me a favor in return without me asking. Nothing is expected from either of us. She is a giver.

Does not own a cell phone, so we maybe talk once a week to decide what we are going to do for the week. First women I dated who did not have a cell phone!!

Put it this way she is this very sophisticated looking lady dressed in bib overalls. She does not seek outside attention as for as I can tell.

You know when you have been out of the dating scene for 2 decades then hop back in and get your heart stomped on you are really scrathing your head maybe for no reason.

 

[azanon]

reply

Read the whole thing, Senor Fingers. Overall, excellent advice. There's only one section I must diagree with:

"Living Together
Do not even consider marrying someone you never lived with....... A relationship becomes a whole different beast when you share the same roof over your heads. This is a true test of your love because at this point it is impossible to avoid getting on each others nerves over stupid sh!t.

My wife wanted to get hitched right away, but I delayed the process for almost three years because I really wanted to get a feel for how we worked together sharing a home. In the beginning it was a disaster. She was a bigger neat freak than me and she had a temper problem I had never noticed before.

Fortunately for both of us, my zen attitude rubbed off on her and she learned to chill out.. in the process I also became more organized and driven to take care of my sh!t. We compromised and ended up better people as a result. That is the biggest green light you will ever get that you have a keeper on your hands.

Ever watch Judge Judy, Senior? BY FAR, the #1 Judge Judy (I believe because of how common) involves a man and a woman who lived together for X amount of time, probably moved in too soon, got in a bitter fight, then they had all the monetary assets and mingling to sort out.

Personally, I'm against "moving in with a chick" and I'd be leary of even doing it with another dude. Its just asking for trouble, and more times than not, its not a case of "if", but "when" will the trouble come.

I believe (from experience, as well as theory) you can learn enough about a potential marital partner to have a very good idea of whether it'll work out without even moving in. You mentioned discovering (after-the-fact) that she was a neat freak. So you never went to her place? You discovered her temper after-the-fact? When a long enough dating process (I dated my now wife 1.5 years before marrying), surely you can discover that too without moving in.

Hey, I'm all for being single for years, if that's your thing. I'm all for the single, male whor*ing for many years longer than I did, if one so chooses. I'm also for marriage. But trying to do "both" at the same time? That's nothing but try-outs for the next Judge Judy.

 

[Señor Fingers]

@ logic1

You both sound ripe for the picking!

You are doing the right thing for now, but at some point you will have to escalate and pump the romance up a notch. In my book 2-3 months with no sex is not a good sign. You still have time, but if she seems like a keeper, then follow your instinct. Bust out the wine, watch a feel-good flick, get cozy and start rounding them bases.

Just be sure to avoid getting too caught up when you cross the threshold. Keep moving at that gangster pace you got going.

@ wayword

Good addition. I mentioned that briefly in my original post but it deserves some elaboration.

Anyone else who has been burned can feel free to add to this list.

@ comic relief

Isnt it amazing how grateful they get when you make their minds up for them? They kind of fall in love with you every time.

Whenever this happens with my wife I jokingly ask what she would do without me.

Ever watch Judge Judy, Senior? BY FAR, the #1 Judge Judy (I believe because of how common) involves a man and a woman who lived together for X amount of time, probably moved in too soon, got in a bitter fight, then they had all the monetary assets and mingling to sort out.

Jumping into anything too soon is never a good idea. Which is why I encourage a healthy phase of independence. When you get used to this lifestyle, you are not really too quick to give it up!

Most of the dudes I see rushing into things like this are just not grounded in themselves. They are serial monogamists who can't handle being alone and end up making rash decisions.

Personally, I'm against "moving in with a chick" and I'd be leary of even doing it with another dude. Its just asking for trouble, and more times than not, its not a case of "if", but "when" will the trouble come.

Your apprehension is healthy. If we moved in with all romantic prospects, disaster would surely ensue. My post is pretty linear though... you start out with your personal work, then its the screening process to find someone suitable, then once she makes the cut you deal with the relationship itself.

After 1-3 years, the next step is either a) living together or b) marriage.

I believe (from experience, as well as theory) you can learn enough about a potential marital partner to have a very good idea of whether it'll work out without even moving in.

Perhaps you are right. My experiences (and those of people around me) were different though.

Case in point:

I know a couple who were a Dream Team as BF/GF.. everyone wanted a relationship like theirs. Then they got married and it all went to hell. While they had spent much time together in their respective homes, they were not able to resolve the small, annoying differences in lifestyle that only rear its ugly head when you actually live with someone.

They divorced a year later and do not speak to each other.

You mentioned discovering (after-the-fact) that she was a neat freak. So you never went to her place? You discovered her temper after-the-fact?

It was night and day when we weren't living together. When I finally moved in, the territorial battles ensued. Our lifestyles clashed due to constant exposure and we both had to adapt in ways that we hadn't before.

When a long enough dating process (I dated my now wife 1.5 years before marrying), surely you can discover that too without moving in.

I dated her for about the same time and we pretty much decided we were going to get married, but I held out for almost another 2 years as we ironed out our differences and got a feel for what it was like to build a home together.

My point is that you shouldnt be in a rush to tie the knot until you are 100% sure and all the tires have been kicked.

It's much easier to move out than it is to get a divorce!

Hey, I'm all for being single for years, if that's your thing. I'm all for the single, male whor*ing for many years longer than I did, if one so chooses. I'm also for marriage. But trying to do "both" at the same time? That's nothing but try-outs for the next Judge Judy.

Oh hell yeah. The two are like oil and water...do not mix at all! Did I convey the idea that you should be playing the field once you are locked in? I thought I was pretty clear about the the importance of faithfulness. Cheating is for losers, folks!

As far as cohabitation goes, we dont completely agree, but thanks for helping me clarify some of this. I would love to edit my original post but cannot for some reason. Hence...

Disclaimer: Guys, use common sense. I dont care how great she is or how in love you are. No moving in until a year or two has gone by!

 

[azanon]

As far as cohabitation goes, we dont completely agree, but thanks for helping me clarify some of this. I would love to edit my original post but cannot for some reason. Hence...

Disclaimer: Guys, use common sense. I dont care how great she is or how in love you are. No moving in until a year or two has gone by!

In the grand scheme of things, i want to say once again that was the only part of your lengthy (and great!) post that I was not completely eye-to-eye in aggreance with you. But back on this....

I admit that never in my life have I ever "lived together" with a chick so I'm speaking from third person. That being said, I imagine that if the level of co-mingling, especially financial, were severe enough, the "break-up" probably wouldn't be a whole lot less severe than a divorce. In fact, there might even be added complications since states probably have a lot of divorce procedure scripted with guidelines whereas in a case of just living together, and finances mixed, it means lawsuits and chaos due to endless possibilities in every inherently unique "living together" scenario. If I recall your post correctly, yours worked out so you don't necessarily have first-hand experience at how hard it would have been to end it that way.

On the positive side, there's all the financial, and social acceptance benefits of marriage; all of which I think could easily offset any added complications of a divorce vs. the nightmare of a "relationship gone wrong" under one roof, possibly many joint assets, and a ton of furnishings probably both individuals feel that they own. On top of that, when you have a marriage license, you're naturally going to try harder because there are people out there who, when they make covenants of sorts, try harder to make them work. As much as I love my wife today, marriage (relationships) are work too and what's more motivating than knowing you have made a life-long commitment witnessed by 300+ people in a church!

The first year or two in a marriage (and probably living together) is rough, regardless. One is trying to adjust to the other, and there's a lot of jockeying going on. That's normal and comes with the territory.

Instead of not marrying, I might suggest to a new, married couple to delay kids for 2-3 years. Now THERE'S something that's pretty hard to undo.

So my thinking is, "living together" is dang near as extreme as just marrying. So why not marry? Or reversing this, if a girl isn't worth marrying then I'd need a very crafty argument to convince me she's worth moving in with! I'm just not convinced that one is necessarily easier undone than the other.

I'm ok with disagreeing. I saw your disclaimer and I think that's the minimum I'd suggested. At the maximum, I'd think long and hard before I moved in with a girl who has not completely convinced me she's worth marrying yet.

 

[Ace of Flames]

About living together, before you get married, before you move in together, before anything else along those lines, you should test it out:

Spend some weekends crashing at each other's homes. Spend holidays together.

These are relatively short periods of time, so you should be able to get along well and enjoy your time together. If the b!tching starts here, you'll never last as a couple.

Go on a week-long vacation and stay in the same room. Go camping.

These are longer time frames, and also, tougher living situations. There's bound to be some arguing, but nothing you shouldn't be able to work out. If the b!tching starts here, then you might be able to handle living together, but you'll have to work on it.


Of course, the best test of your compatibility is to actually live together, but these ideas can help you decide if that step is worth taking.

 

[Señor Fingers]

@ Ace of Flames

Those are excellent additions.. I dont know how I missed them. If only I could edit my original posts!

@Pete

Thanks for the kind words. If you are ever in Spain, drinks are on me