Going back to the roots! Doing MOTU's Bootcamp!

[Shivastorm_88]

let the games begin!

I decided to start a boot camp to go back to the basics and work on them a bit. However, since time is a constraint and I have a crazy busy schedule, I will modify it slightly. First off, I have to remove the time constraints. I will try to stick by it as much as possible, but my schedule is extremely packed so I can't make promises to myself that I might not be able to keep.

How it will work? Every time I start a new weekly challenge, I will post it here, with a the subject: Bootcamp, week X. Everything related to this week's challenge (my field reports) will be put in posts holding this subject. Any observations that I make not directly related to the week's challenge will be in posts with the subject "Bootcamp", like this one.

Now the real challenge will be to maintain this journal. I always start doing journals, but then I get lazy and stop writing what I do... -_-

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!? love that quote

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Like I mentioned, there will be no time constraint. However, I will try to make this work as much as possible. I am starting it now even if I am still in exam period since the first week is mostly passive, not active. Once my exams are done (this Friday), I will work more actively towards it, as much as my schedule lets me.

THE GOAL
Develop a sense of confidence that will render actual approaches easier.

EXERCISES

1) Say “hi” to 25 persons to whom I have locked down eye contact
2) Say “hi, how are you?” to 25 persons to whom I have locked down eye contact and perhaps try to start a small conversation to those who are receptive.


The reason I modified it is that I can't do twice a 1-hour sarging of maintaining eye contact as is prescribed by the exercise #1, no time for it. Instead I thought I'd add a little difficulty to the challenge by starting conversations (although not mandatory)

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Motivational post for the bootcamp

Now that I am ready to start, I have to admit, it is hard. The boot camp is not an easy thing to do. Although I am not an extremely shy person, doing cold approaches like that is still quite difficult for me. I think the key to success lies in two factor.

FACTOR 1 - KEEP IN MIND MY LONG-TERM GOALS

My long-term goals are not to become a pro at getting ONS. I am not interested in that. My long-term goals are to become the very best person I can become, for myself. That's it. However, intellectualism will only take you so far. I have learned so many things in the past year, come to understand so many concepts, and made so many realizations. The main problem is, despite all this, I am in a constant state of stagnation. I do nothing to change my current situation, other than understand it.

I want to become a better conversationalist? Of course there are steps that I can take to make this happen, and individual aspects I can work on as well. However, in the end, if I don't actively socialize, all this remains at best techniques that are not applied, and therefore goes to waste.

I want to be less introverted? Understanding the "why" of it isn't going to change the fact that I am introverted. Only through experience can I change that.

I want to be better with women? Again, reading tips and tactics can give me a solid base, and understanding some mechanisms of the game can also give me a solid base, but it remains just that, the foundation. I still have to build the rest through hard work and practice.

FACTOR 2 - KEEP IN MIND THE OBSTACLES

Nothing worth it comes easy in life. If I want to reach my goals and to become an overall better person, as well as better with women, I will have to work for it. Actively, and hard. Again, intellectualism will only take me so far. I need to act, to experiment and, most importantly, fail. There will be three main obstacles in doing the bootcamp.

1) I will fail. A lot. I have to expect it. Before a toddler can walk, he falls many, many times. No one can instantly be good at something, it requires countless amount of practice.

2) It will be hard. Very hard. I will step many times on my ego and I will look many times like a fool and an idiot. This is part of the learning process, and I must embrace it, not fear it.

3) Laziness. I can't help it, I am lazy. I am not a lazy person, I am just lazy regarding this. Simply because I fear failure and rejection. My ego is strong, and does not tolerate well rejection.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Why am I doing the bootcamp?

I was thinking about what my end goal is with the boot camp. What do I truly want? Racking up ONS is not my interest. I wouldn't say no to one if I were given the chance, but I'm not interested in actively seeking them out. What I am really after is an LTR.


However, seeking a LTR doesn't mean I want to go after the first girl that shows interest in me. The old major AFC me would've done that. "God! This girl is interested in me! I must love her!". That would have been my train of thought a few years ago. Not anymore. I am not interested in going after the first girl that shows me interest either. I wouldn't turn down a date with them, but only to decide if I am interested in them.


So what am I expecting from the boot camp? It's not to gather as many ONS under my belt as possible, neither is it to find a shortcut for a LTR. There's one other alternative: I want the power of choice. Up to now, I've never had that because I've never been outgoing enough and actively sarging. This is what I want to change.


By power of choice, I mean to be able to cycle through girls. For example:


Gather 10 numbers, set-up first dates with the most interesting ones, discard the less interesting numbers (or save for later). After the first date, discard (or save for later) the less interesting ones and go for second dates with the others. Same for third date. Even after the third date, I still want to be able to discard girls from the LTR material section if they do not suit me, even if that means I discard all of them! However, I also want to be able to cycle through dates efficiently and maintain contacts with those that ranked higher for casual dating or larger social circle. Even better, I also want to be able to choose which girl I try to get a number from and which I do not, not leave it to luck or circumstances (e.g.: Situational approaches... They are nice and dandy, but not always possible and right now I rely solely on them).


For me, this is the most attractive outcome of the DJ Boot Camp. Develop the power of choice through exposure to the field.


Sidenote: While typing this, I realized this might be one of the reason people so easily fall prey to oneitis, and also truly realized why it is often suggestion to spin plates to avoid oneitis. People will meet a girl that is interesting to them, they begin to believe this this girl is "the one" because they are not used to meet other girls, and therefore they lack other options. She seems to be unique, the only girl that holds interest to them. If she is not interested in them for whichever reason, this is when they become depressed and think that this was the "one girl" and they will never meet another one.

Give a person the power of choice and the same situation will not happen, because they will know that even if a girl is at (to use my previous example) the third date stage and shoe loses interest in him, they will simply be able to cycle through the other girls at that level, or go out and gather more numbers to restart the process.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

I forgot how hard this is. It isn't hard to actually say "hi" to people, what's hard is that no one maintains eye contact, or even look at strangers. This challenge helps me realize that either:

1) People are so stuck in their own world that they do not care about others at all

or

2) People lack so much confidence that they do not dare maintain eye contact with others.

I didn't do this actively yet, I tried to go for it on my way to work yesterday. I managed to get one "hello" outside of my work area, and plenty at work (we are over 800 employees, but I do not count it since everyone is so friendly at work) in about 30 minutes of outside exposure. This will take time, perseverance and dedication, but I want to complete the 50 "hi" before I move on to the next challenge. Soon I will do this more actively, last exam today!

count: 1/50



Edit: God damn it people need to maintain eye contact with strangers, or look somewhere else than their own shoes. At this rate it'll take me forever. I think I'll counter balance it by making opinion approaches (without trying to number close).

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Alright I will cheat a bit in this challenge. At this rate it would take me forever to get the 50 hi's, so far I only managed to get a second one. I am not out in public often due to my schedule, and when I am, I scarcely get any occasions. I will of course keep trying, but I will combine it with something else.

I will go up to "regular to cute girls" (HB5-7) and do an approach I saw in Senor Finger's WMS, which goes in the line of:

"Hey there, I was just curious to know where you bought your shoes/boots" "blabla" "Alright thanks, they are pretty stylish, and it's my sister birthday soon (or xmas until the 25th) and I was looking for a gift".

I won't try to escalate much, and I won't try to #close (unless the occasion is golden) and one approach like this will count as one hi. Requires more guts, but this way it wont take me two months to complete the first week challenge -_-

count: 2/50

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Funny thing. I went hiking to Tremblant today (famous hiking and skiing mountain in Quebec, about 1h45 from Montreal) and I realized that in rural areas people are so much more open to discussion than in big cities. I had no problem whatsoever to open up with the "hi" to strangers, or even start fun conversation with clerks (went to a local doughnut shop)... People are just more friendly.

I didn't do any approach with the shoe yet, haven't had time, but I'm continuing with the hi's slowly but surely. Not really feeling any anxiety from it, nor am I feeling expected anxiety from the shoe approach. Although I am not aggressive enough about it! Challenge 3): "Laziness. I can't help it, I am lazy. I am not a lazy person, I am just lazy regarding this. Simply because I fear failure and rejection. My ego is strong, and does not tolerate well rejection." Right now it's actually not because of fear of rejection, it's just plain laziness -_- I have to work on that!

count: 6/50

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Ok it's starting to pick up a bit. Although I am barely doing the "hi's", I am scoring points through other means. I realized today that my conversational abilities are actually not as bad as I thought. I started random conversations with two strangers, and carried them for a quite a bit. I also noticed that I can easily strike a fun conversation with clerks that I deal with.

Furthermore, I realized the power of speaking about the other person in a conversation. When you speak about the other person, and try to create a connection with that person, it is insane how they will open up. At that point, you barely have to say anything, just listen, fill in with some comments or questions, and you appear to be an amazing conversationalist, simply because you become an "amazing listener". They become impressed in you and almost admire you, and when you do say something (for example, give them a piece of info about yourself or share a story), it's almost as you've given them a gift. I'll have to put this more into practice.

Furthermore, although I think it might just be because of the mindset that the bootcamp puts me into, I noticed I am for more confident and outgoing that before, and although I am still at some times too lazy to approach, it is actually the only barrier. I don't feel anxious if I plan to approach someone, I just do it. I just gotta get less lazy to do it more often. :rockon:

Last count was at 6, today I started conversations with two strangers and got 2 or 3 "hi's", so the count is now at:

count: 10/50

 

[SoSuaveScorp]

keep it up!

Hi there Shivastorm
I read all of this and I noticed you were doing really good. I'd like to comment about all your realizations and say that they're dead on! The things you're realizing about women and conversation are very true

I noticed you stopped posting about a week ago
so if it helps at all: Keep up the good work!

+1 to rep

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Hi there Shivastorm
I read all of this and I noticed you were doing really good. I'd like to comment about all your realizations and say that they're dead on! The things you're realizing about women and conversation are very true

I noticed you stopped posting about a week ago
so if it helps at all: Keep up the good work!

+1 to rep

Hah thanks! That was one of my goals, not to stop this journal! Not going too well but I just saw this post right after I created a new one. I did not give up on it! I just didn't update it, which I will do very shortly.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Hectic week it has been! Work all the time, I didn't even get to hike or climb as much as I wanted too. Now school is starting, so I'll get many more occasions to do approaches!

Over the course of the week I've been doing the "hi's" as much as I could, although to be honest, I did not keep count, but I can say, with realism, I got about 3 a day at least (on the days that I went out that I wasn't with my family). So that would be an extra 12. However, I did a few more valuable things. First off:

1) I did the week 2 challenge with some random dude in my climbing gym (in the locker room, no jokes allowed!) We talked about random stuff, and subject went to school, and I got him to tell me about his school interest and goals and whatnot. Not the most fascinating subject, but I did get a complete stranger to open up to me, which is not bad (again, no jokes allowed!). Not something I'd usually achieve. I can see the progress, and so little has been achieved so far.

2) This might seem sad, but even with my own family I'm slightly introverted. I'm not shy or anything, but I never used to hold long conversations. However, at Christmas and New Year's day, I decided to put in practice the (in my opinion) 3 key aspects to good communication, and hell, it works! I got one of my aunt to talk for about 30 minutes about her work (which she truly loves), with me barely saying anything, and she seemed as happy as a kid in a candy shop.

3) Learn the three keys (in my opinion) to good conversation:
3.1) Everyone's favorite subject is themselves or their passions: Get them to talk about either of these subjects and the conversation will flow extremely easily.
3.2) You must be a good listener: Show that you actively listen, not by simply nodding, but paraphrasing what the person said, or going back to things the person said a few minutes ago, or to a previous subject, etc.
3.3) Emotions are important: Speak with emotions, and show the person that you can understand the emotions he felt when he lived X event, or the emotions Y hobby brings him.

Count: For the sake of it, although I'm pretty sure it should be higher than that, I will put the count at: 20/50

 

[Packers2010]

i was thinking of doing something like this.

i use skype a lot. and i was thinking about starting a skype group. where people could talk in real time and we could get some discussions going.

if i get enough people with interest. i will open the group up and we can get going.

just shoot me a PM with your skype name so i can see who to add and how manny people we have in the group.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Alright well I'm really getting better as a conversationalist (at least I seem to get better). Today again I met some girl (a collegue of my friend) and we ended up being alone for about 5 minutes and I managed to get an easy conversation flow going on, talking about her ambitions and her hobbies and whatnot. Again, it did not take much effort on my part to keep the flow up, which is a big difference from let's say, 2-3 months ago, before I started actively trying to be a better conversationalist. The three key aspects that I listed in the previous post actually really helps. I can't wait to get to the point where I will actively seek out rejections, to see how my conversation improvements will help me compared to before!

Now I'll eventually have to develop another facet, which is to maintain some level of kino even when doing simple conversation. I tend to do 0 kino (although I try to do some mirroing, I lack kino). I'm not afraid of actually doing kino, I just don't do it much while I speak with new people I meet. Guess it's a new barrier to breach once I get more comfortable with holding conversations... All in due time!

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 1: Developing / Conveying Confidence

Finally, I feel like I've done some real sarging (although can't call saying ''hi'' sarging), I actually went out for an hour with the intention to do as many as possible.

It was snowy, but not too cold, and I love snow so it put me in a good mood, and I went for a stroll at the Old Port of Montreal (where I live) and said ''hi'' to the strangers that I locked eye contact with, even to those who looked away fast. However, I noticed I tend to hesitate a bit, which means I wasted a lot of good occasions (probably an extra 10). I should learn to apply the 3 second rule for every situation. A big problem that I have is I overanalyze things. If I apply this rule, it will kill the analytical part of me that ends up blocking me from acting (read: approaching) and I think I will do this much more easily.

Count: 32/50. I did 11 ''hi'' and started a 5 minute conversation with a random person. Although he was a lonely old man eager to speak, I actually enjoyed it. I'm enjoying more and more speaking and interacting with other people, much more than before. This must mean I'm on the right track!

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Alright, even though I haven't really updated the journal (it was getting redundant) part 1 is now over. I will now do part 2, but I will change it up a bit. I will start random conversations with strangers, but I'll make this last for around a month, starting at least one conversation a day.

This is the biggest issue for me since I' not really outgoing to go and speak to people I don't know, so I want to make sure I work real hard on it before I get down to the real deal. I will start the count next week, and try to keep at least a weekly update.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 2: Initiating Conversations with Strangers

Alright well even though I wanted to start the challenge on Monday, I already gave it a go on Thursday. I went to a bar with a friend and we went outside twice because she wanted to have a smoke, and both time there was a person outside (two of the managers) so I started a conversation with them.

The first one was quite interesting, I initially asked him if he was a part-owner and he confirmed he was manager, and he started telling me how it works to run this place, problems that he has, etc. And after that he went about to tell me how he was at a UFC match recently, and how much he likes boxing more than UFC... Interesting conversation all around.

The other one was less interesting, he was making trivial talk and trying to hit on my friend in a very blatant way, trying to get more information out of us and whatnot... I felt like I was being asked a questionnaire -_-

New total count: 2 so far
Daily count: 0/30
Up-to-date count: 0/0

 

[doctorj]

can I get a link to MOTU's bootcamp

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Bootcamp, Week 2: Initiating Conversations with Strangers

Although I started plenty of conversations since Monday, it's only been done in two days. So technically, I am lagging behind... I need more focus!

WEDNESDAY, 26TH JANUARY 2011
I started or continued four conversations today. Although they aren’t complete strangers, I still did better than what I would usually do. These were all made at Allez-Up.

First person asked me about my shoes that got fixed (over-heard a conversation I had with a buddy), and I started talking with him. I first answered his question, and then got a nice conversation flow going on, which was quite easy. It all revolved around his question, but compared to the old me, it’s an astounding result.

Second person was one of the employees. It was regarding the lead rope class. We discussed this briefly, but again, I carried the conversation longer than what I had too.

Third person was another employee. He’s not a big talker, although I did manage to get quite a decent conversation with him. It lasted maybe 3-4 minutes, but it was still in the required time.

The last person was one of the climbers. I talked twice with him, once about climbing partners and the other time about outdoor climbing. I got shy of asking him if he could show me the basics of outdoor climbing, which I find disappointing. I should not feel shy about asking for anything. I ask, and then I get the answer and I deal with it thereafter. Shyness should not be part of the equation.


THURSDAY, 27TH JANUARY 2011
Today I started a conversation with one person. It was with a guy from my class, after the exam. Simple enough, I asked him how it went, and he told me how the exam was, where he struggled a bit more, etc. I made sure to do some mirroring while speaking with him (don’t know if it actually does anything), it’s getting more and more natural for me to do that. Rapidly we started talking about his background studies, which bachelor’s he’s doing, where he’s working, etc. We also had an interesting conversation about one of his class, which is a political debate about nuclear energy. All in all I had a nice conversation flow, about ten minutes, then his friend left the class as well and he joined us, I started talking with both of them, basically I was the one leading the whole conversation, which I was quite proud of.
The three keys of good conversation works so well it’s incredible. It makes what’s always been hard to me incredibly easy and enjoyable too. I don’t feel like I have to force any conversation, it comes naturally, especially when I respect the rule #1. I just have to make sure I don’t turn the conversation into a questionnaire (I used to back at my debut months ago, not anymore though).


New total count: 8 so far
Daily count: 2/30




Here's the link: http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/Downloads/djbc.pdf

 

[PDubb75]

Hey man,

Just joined here and I am definitely giving this a try. Sounds like its going pretty well for you to this point. Keep it up! I'll be sure to keep checking in.

 

[Shivastorm_88]

Hey man,

Just joined here and I am definitely giving this a try. Sounds like its going pretty well for you to this point. Keep it up! I'll be sure to keep checking in.

Welcome to this forum! My suggestion is to read the book of Pook (bottom of any page, click the DJ Bible hyperlink, you'll have access to it), the bootcamp is also a good thing to do. Finally, if you ask advice, learn to take it with a grain of salt. Some of the users here give awesome advice that should be followed, others, not so much... Hope you find what you are looking for!