Going against human nature

[BigBadJon]

Has anyone ever heard of the term "prospect theory"? This is based upon the idea that humans in general will go to greater lengths to avoid loss than they will to achieve gain. Your brain seems to place a disproportionate amount of importance on avoiding loss.
For example, if you see a girl that catches your eye, you want to make your move. Human nature is actually keeping you from following through with it.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you aren't risking much of anything by making conversation with a female. So what are we afraid of? We have to wake up and realize that we have SO much more to gain than we have to lose!
The problem lies in our perception of what we have to lose. Will you get a disease from approaching a girl? NO. Will you die? NO. Will you be scarred for life if she rejects you? Again the answer is NO.
O.k. now lets look at the positives. You could end up with a new friend. You could possibly get laid. You may even find the girl you've been waiting your whole life for!
Point is, we all need to stop focusing on the virtually nonexistant negatives, and concentrate on the many positives. Go against human nature....it's the only way to succeed!

 

[Armand]

Originally posted by BigBadJon:
Has anyone ever heard of the term "prospect theory"? This is based upon the idea that humans in general will go to greater lengths to avoid loss than they will to achieve gain. Your brain seems to place a disproportionate amount of importance on avoiding loss.
For example, if you see a girl that catches your eye, you want to make your move. Human nature is actually keeping you from following through with it.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you aren't risking much of anything by making conversation with a female. So what are we afraid of? We have to wake up and realize that we have SO much more to gain than we have to lose!
The problem lies in our perception of what we have to lose. Will you get a disease from approaching a girl? NO. Will you die? NO. Will you be scarred for life if she rejects you? Again the answer is NO.
O.k. now lets look at the positives. You could end up with a new friend. You could possibly get laid. You may even find the girl you've been waiting your whole life for!
Point is, we all need to stop focusing on the virtually nonexistant negatives, and concentrate on the many positives. Go against human nature....it's the only way to succeed!

Very well put, Jon!

"You are what you think."

Ignore your instinct - that little voice that so often says "she probably has a boyfriend," or, "she probably wouldn't be interested in me," etc.

Tell me, where might I find more in-depth on this "prospect theory," and the like?

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Definition Of Insanity: Doing what you've always done and expecting things to change.

 

[BigBadJon]

Originally posted by Armand:
Very well put, Jon!

"You are what you think."

Ignore your instinct - that little voice that so often says "she probably has a boyfriend," or, "she probably wouldn't be interested in me," etc.

Tell me, where might I find more in-depth on this "prospect theory," and the like?

Yes, that evil little voice, that is what I am talking about. Our mind puts entirely too much emphasis on the outcome of meeting a girl for the first time. What a way to be miswired!
I know that you and I are both risk takers as far as seeking financial gain goes. That has never been an issue for me. So you would think that I would be a risk taker in all aspects of life, right?
So why did I drop the ball last Friday night when I was getting my groove on with one of the hottest girls in the club? It's that damn little voice. I can't remember what it was saying, but it sure as the hell kept me from getting her # that night! I am still kicking myself for that one.
By the way, I meant to post the link to the site I recently found that reminded me to write on this subject. I know there is plenty more material covering this because I've seen it other places in the past.

http://www.influenceatwork.com/riskybeh.html


[This message has been edited by BigBadJon (edited 10-02-2000).]

 

[BigBadJon]

Here's another one. http://rowlf.cc.wwu.edu:8080/~market/tj/logic.html

 

[Armand]

Originally posted by BigBadJon:
Yes, that evil little voice, that is what I am talking about. Our mind puts entirely too much emphasis on the outcome of meeting a girl for the first time. What a way to be miswired!

Really! I used to see her shooting me down before I even make my presence known to her! Talk about self-fullfilling prophecy...

I know that you and I are both risk takers as far as seeking financial gain goes. That has never been an issue for me.

I'm a f*cking animal when it comes to financial gain. Ironic to say the least, that other matters aren't parallel to this.
(BTW- Signing on another deal this week that should return an easy .5-mil by Q1-2001. If seduction were as easy as business, I'd be dead by now from protein-deficiency.

So you would think that I would be a risk taker in all aspects of life, right?
So why did I drop the ball last Friday night when I was getting my groove on with one of the hottest girls in the club? It's that damn little voice. I can't remember what it was saying, but it sure as the hell kept me from getting her # that night! I am still kicking myself for that one.
By the way, I meant to post the link to the site I recently found that reminded me to write on this subject. I know there is plenty more material covering this because I've seen it other places in the past.

I dropped the ball myself last week. I was eating alone in a cozy little Chinese restaurant after a meeting (read: in business mode, not women mode). I had my planner out taking some notes from memory, all the while eating my food, when this BEAUTIFUL waitress came up and just starting talking away. Asian/American, approx. 21 y/o, 5'6", stunning eyes, model hands (I like hands), and soothing voice (music soothes the savage beast, no? hehe). She caught me off-guard. She just started to say how she noticed I would take a bite of food and go right back to writing-thinking, and that she used to do the same thing. Then, she suggested that I not bring work to food, that I should enjoy my meal instead, savoring it without distraction. She also said I looked stressed, and that I should think about taking time out with friends and relax. This was after I told her that I'm new in town and don't know many people outside of my business contacts - was this suggestion a hint? See, totally off-guard, unfocused attention.

By this it's a no-brainer as to how much she had been sizing me up from afar (before *I* even noticed her). The thought crossed my mind that she was interested just by how much she is making conversation, and where it was heading - more personal: college (her), what I do (me), her major, where she is from, how long she's been living here, and much more about her. She kept trying to get info out of me, but I kept turning the table back to her immediately after answering her question with just a hint of much more underlying. She kept a grand smile the entire time, and seemed very receptive to what I had to say and ask of her in the conversation.

The thought also crossed my mind that she may have just been digging for a good tip, but then I noticed, later after she went back to working, that she wasn't even serving that side of the restaurant where my table was.

Overall I believe I handled the convo fluently, the DJ way, except for one thing: I didn't get her number! >:-( She was being called away suddenly (back to her side of the resturant - manager looked pissed at her), so I just said that I enjoyed talking, and that I might come in for lunch again sometime. Her reply: An enthusiastic, "Really?," with the same grand smile.

I know I could have asked for her number, even with her in a rush, but the little voice in the head said not to insist - that it might seem too desperate if I chased her down in the restaurant.

I've been kicking myself in the arse ever since for not getting her number, but i'm going back tomorrow for lunch (it was a tuesday) and maybe catch her there again. If she's there, I should try some damage-control on this and ask for her number this time, to confirm my interest in getting to know her socially - as well as testing her interest.

Anyways, it's late. Money waits for no man - early rise tomorrow and a long day, need sleep.

Thanks for the links! I'll read over them another time, when I'm not so deleriously tired.

-TCB
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Definition Of Insanity: Doing what you've always done and expecting things to change.

[This message has been edited by Armand (edited 10-03-2000).]

 

[BigBadJon]

I'm a f*cking animal when it comes to financial gain. Ironic to say the least, that other matters aren't parallel to this.
(BTW- Signing on another deal this week that should return an easy .5-mil by Q1-2001. If seduction were as easy as business, I'd be dead by now from protein-deficiency.

What part of the country are you from? Maybe we'll hook up on a deal sometime

Originally posted by Armand:
I dropped the ball myself last week. I was eating alone in a cozy little Chinese restaurant after a meeting (read: in business mode, not women mode). I had my planner out taking some notes from memory, all the while eating my food, when this BEAUTIFUL waitress came up and just starting talking away. Asian/American, approx. 21 y/o, 5'6", stunning eyes, model hands (I like hands), and soothing voice (music soothes the savage beast, no? hehe). She caught me off-guard. She just started to say how she noticed I would take a bite of food and go right back to writing-thinking, and that she used to do the same thing. Then, she suggested that I not bring work to food, that I should enjoy my meal instead, savoring it without distraction. She also said I looked stressed, and that I should think about taking time out with friends and relax. This was after I told her that I'm new in town and don't know many people outside of my business contacts - was this suggestion a hint? See, totally off-guard, unfocused attention.

I am too often oblivious to signals given. Usually by the time I realize what happened, it's too late. This is why we should always ASSUME that she is attracted to you, GET THE #, and then REMOVE yourself from the situation A.S.A.P. Plenty of time to analyze the situation afterwards. I told my biz. partner to kick me in the ass next time I pull some stupid wuss out **** like that again! I kicked him in the ass a few weeks ago on a similar situation, and he came to work SORE the next day because of it(from the **** of his life)!

By this it's a no-brainer as to how much she had been sizing me up from afar (before *I* even noticed her). The thought crossed my mind that she was interested just by how much she is making conversation, and where it was heading - more personal: college (her), what I do (me), her major, where she is from, how long she's been living here, and much more about her. She kept trying to get info out of me, but I kept turning the table back to her immediately after answering her question with just a hint of much more underlying. She kept a grand smile the entire time, and seemed very receptive to what I had to say and ask of her in the conversation.

Good work! Putting those skills to work I see! I am not bad at holding a conversation once the ball is rolling. The two most difficult parts are the ice breaker and getting the #.

The thought also crossed my mind that she may have just been digging for a good tip, but then I noticed, later after she went back to working, that she wasn't even serving that side of the restaurant where my table was.

Not too long ago a girl that bartends at a happening spot in Orlando shocked the hell out of me by tossing her # across the bar without me asking for it. 20 yr old, 5'7" HOTTTT! We had spoken numerous times and I felt a very good vibe but was too chicken **** to do anything about it. Well I ****ed it all up, of course(this girl is the reason I found this board, looking for info on body language). To the point, I wasn't sure if she just loved the fat tip we always left or what. But the home #? Thats kinda strange to give that out just to keep a tip coming. I guess it's hard to tell.

Overall I believe I handled the convo fluently, the DJ way, except for one thing: I didn't get her number! >:-( She was being called away suddenly (back to her side of the resturant - manager looked pissed at her), so I just said that I enjoyed talking, and that I might come in for lunch again sometime. Her reply: An enthusiastic, "Really?," with the same grand smile.

It's tough when they are working. Sounds like this girl really likes you. You're still in the game. Make it happen and let us know how it goes!

I know I could have asked for her number, even with her in a rush, but the little voice in the head said not to insist - that it might seem too desperate if I chased her down in the restaurant.

Damn little voice! It probably would have flattered her and shown that you have balls. Like I said though, you're still in. Make the move next time you see her.

I've been kicking myself in the arse ever since for not getting her number, but i'm going back tomorrow for lunch (it was a tuesday) and maybe catch her there again. If she's there, I should try some damage-control on this and ask for her number this time, to confirm my interest in getting to know her socially - as well as testing her interest.

Anyways, it's late. Money waits for no man - early rise tomorrow and a long day, need sleep.

Thanks for the links! I'll read over them another time, when I'm not so deleriously tired.

-TCB

[This message has been edited by BigBadJon (edited 10-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by BigBadJon (edited 10-03-2000).]

 

[Dee-Zy]

Originally posted by Armand:
-TCB

???
Big Don is back?

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AZN THUGZ NEVER DIE!!! AZN THUGZ 4EVA ALIVE!!
Prepare yoself fer the KayZeez y'all!!!

 

[Armand]

Originally posted by Dee-Zy:
???
Big Don is back?

Who? Does he sign with TCB or something? Sorry for the confusion; signing TCB is pretty common though - Taking Care of Business.


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Definition Of Insanity: Doing what you've always done and expecting things to change.

 

[Armand]

What part of the country are you from? Maybe we'll hook up on a deal sometime

I'm in Baton Rouge, LA. And you are in Orlando, FL? Real Estate there is pretty cut-throat eh? Same here..hehe. My brother is in residential-commercial new construction and looking to get into property development. I'm considering getting into development myself. There is SO much old farm land surrounding Baton Rouge that's just sitting there now; I think I should get a start on grabbing as much as I can, accumulatively, in the next couple of years.

I am too often oblivious to signals given. Usually by the time I realize what happened, it's too late. This is why we should always ASSUME that she is attracted to you, GET THE #, and then REMOVE yourself from the situation A.S.A.P. Plenty of time to analyze the situation afterwards. I told my biz. partner to kick me in the ass next time I pull some stupid wuss out **** like that again! I kicked him in the ass a few weeks ago on a similar situation, and he came to work SORE the next day because of it(from the **** of his life)!

The signals I can sniff out; it's just figuring out how genuine they are that throws me off. I seem to always run across the "professional flirters" 99% of the time (read: won't give out home #)

I HATE my time being wasted.

Good work! Putting those skills to work I see! I am not bad at holding a conversation once the ball is rolling. The two most difficult parts are the ice breaker and getting the #.

I've been putting more effort into it lately, now that business is getting on the streamline and my brain has a bit more room to ponder my other passion

I still work too damn much though. I'm starting to get a bit edgy - need playtime too

I still have a little difficulty with the breaker, too. It would be nice if what happened to me last week (her breaking it with me) would happen all the time!!

On getting the number, I usually go something like this: "Well (her first name), i've enjoyed talking with you; I'd like to do so again sometime." (Pause and smile for a sec to briefly take a mental pic of her facial expression).

Usually she'll either hesitate and think for a second, or say something like "Sure, i'd like that." In the latter case, i'll grab a pen and ask her home# right out. In the former case, i'll continue to smile and see what course the facial expressions take.
===================

My connection keeps timing out, so i'll break this up into two sections

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Definition Of Insanity: Doing what you've always done and expecting things to change.

 

[Armand]

Continued:

For example: Tuesday I was back in the Chinese restaurant for lunch, and she WAS working. I was able to talk with her very briefly (extremely busy-straight up noon) and throw the above her way. She smiled, but hesitated with a little sideways dart in her eyes (constructing a good response) when I asked about her home#. I knew what that meant, so I spared her and smiled even more myself saying (with a little humored tone) "It's ok if that's not possible

" - it's the first thing that came to mind, with a little laugh trying to easy her up from thinking up an easy let-down for me. She seemed very appreciative that I didn't whine like most guys do, and explained (way too thoroughly for me actually) that she took her b/f back in over the weekend to give it another try and blah blah blah you know the rest.

Who knows if that's the truth - doesn't really matter!

Point is that I made sure the negative response didn't get the best of me, or occupy my mind with it no longer than 10 minutes while paying my bill and driving off.

That's probably the best i've ever taken a rejection

Not too long ago a girl that bartends at a happening spot in Orlando shocked the hell out of me by tossing her # across the bar without me asking for it. 20 yr old, 5'7" HOTTTT! We had spoken numerous times and I felt a very good vibe but was too chicken **** to do anything about it. Well I ****ed it all up, of course(this girl is the reason I found this board, looking for info on body language). To the point, I wasn't sure if she just loved the fat tip we always left or what. But the home #? Thats kinda strange to give that out just to keep a tip coming. I guess it's hard to tell.

As i've read numerous times around here, a woman won't give up her home# unless she's intersted in finding out more about you (ie potential b/f material), and i'd think even more so of one that bartends (get's hit on every 2 minutes.)

Did you ever call that number after getting it?

It's tough when they are working. Sounds like this girl really likes you. You're still in the game. Make it happen and let us know how it goes!

I noticed a drop in interest tuesday even before trying for her #, so it's likely she's telling the truth on the b/f thing. I know it's nothing i've done to cause this drastic change between talking with her last week and tuesday, unless not asking for her number LAST week really pissed her off..hehe. Oh well, LOTS more women here

And another thing, somehow she went from like an 8 (on my scale of tastes, of course) to a 6 in one week. I was like, "WHAT THE F*CK?????"

I think the tendency to ponder someone recently met over time starts making them more attractive in your mind - stands the reason the further-interest should be confirmed(home#) right then and there when you first meet (rather than waiting a week like I did and wondering if she's really that interested..heh)

Damn little voice! It probably would have flattered her and shown that you have balls. Like I said though, you're still in. Make the move next time you see her.

The voice might have saved me this time, actually! How embarrasing it would have been to get shot down in front of a whole restaurant!

Either that, or she would have given me the number under pressure but avoid the call, or give me a wrong number.

Next!

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Definition Of Insanity: Doing what you've always done and expecting things to change.

 

[BigBadJon]

Originally posted by Armand:
Real Estate there is pretty cut-throat eh?

Not sure, considering I have lived here since I was 14.

I've been putting more effort into it lately, now that business is getting on the streamline and my brain has a bit more room to ponder my other passion

I still work too damn much though. I'm starting to get a bit edgy - need playtime too

What's the point of life if you can't enjoy it while you are young, right?

I still have a little difficulty with the breaker, too. It would be nice if what happened to me last week (her breaking it with me) would happen all the time!!

If we only lived in a perfect world

I have noticed that when I am out, all I have to do is have the right attitude and enjoy myself. If I am truly having a good time that night, women generally pick up on this and are much friendlier and tend to initiate things. (Maybe not always a good thing, but it does wonders for your confidence.} Gotta put the game face on, get out there, and make your friends smack you upside the head if you let any opportunities pass you by.

On getting the number, I usually go something like this: "Well (her first name), i've enjoyed talking with you; I'd like to do so again sometime." (Pause and smile for a sec to briefly take a mental pic of her facial expression).

Usually she'll either hesitate and think for a second, or say something like "Sure, i'd like that." In the latter case, i'll grab a pen and ask her home# right out. In the former case, i'll continue to smile and see what course the facial expressions take.

It is always important to pay closer attention to the WAY she says something and her body language.

Who knows if that's the truth - doesn't really matter! Point is that I made sure the negative response didn't get the best of me, or occupy my mind with it no longer than 10 minutes while paying my bill and driving off.That's probably the best i've ever taken a rejection

Very possibly true, but a waste of time to ponder why or why not at this point. Good job.

As i've read numerous times around here, a woman won't give up her home# unless she's intersted in finding out more about you (ie potential b/f material), and i'd think even more so of one that bartends (get's hit on every 2 minutes.)

Did you ever call that number after getting it?

I bartended for about 5 years prior to becoming self employed. I know from experience that even the ugly girls get lots of attention, let alone the gorgeous ones that work in a high volume establishment.

Yes I did try to set up a date, but got the runaround. I still see her from time to time, but I don't make any effort to pursue anymore. Too bad cause I could have definitely spent some time with this one

She is TOTALLY my type of girl.

I think the tendency to ponder someone recently met over time starts making them more attractive in your mind - stands the reason the further-interest should be confirmed(home#) right then and there when you first meet (rather than waiting a week like I did and wondering if she's really that interested..heh)

The same way you wouldn't let a sweet business deal get gobbled up by someone else, you shouldn't let her get away without getting the #. I do that sh1t in clubs all the time. Turn your back and they are GONE.

 

[Brazilian_Blues_Boy]

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