God and MMA

[Jariel]

I think only an idiot belives there is no god.

It's this kind of intolerance that's making athiests fight back. If someone wants to believe in magic, God, ghosts, elves and whatever else, that's cool and good luck to them, but the problem is when they start imposing that belief on others as though it's indisputable fact.

we don't understand a thing about our universe and our extrapolation of our discovered phenomena over the entire universe is as rediculous and ignorant as the next idea.

Exactly! This I agree on. Science will continue to search for answers, but will never know everything. We have to accept that some things will always remain a mystery.

However, most religions don't accept that. They claim that their answers are the only answers. Not only are you wrong if you believe otherwise, but you will be punished with eternal damnation for it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

A tornado just killed 6 people and caused tons of damage in Illinois. Who is responsible then?

If you mean who is responsible for taking care of the victims, it's mostly the church. I live near the town that got hit.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0...Illinois-city-is-stunned-and-roused-to-action

Besides emergency personnel arriving from surrounding counties and states, volunteer efforts are materializing in many shapes and sizes: gangs of teenage boys armed with chainsaws looking to cut trees, a work shift of miners ordered above ground and sent to help out, a local Baptist church transformed into a shelter.

“We’re not ones to sit around in southern Illinois. We’re taking the initiative to move forward even if our hearts are broken,” says Harrisburg Mayor Eric Gregg.

Mobilization is everywhere: Busy street corners feature church groups and others handing out free lunches and water to anyone who honks; toys, beds, diapers, and most everything else people would need – when all they have left in life is the pajamas they wore to bed Wednesday night – is arriving by the truckload to two local church halls.

At First Baptist Church, which is sheltering and feeding displaced families with the help of the Red Cross, Deacon Ron Morse, a former two-term mayor of Harrisburg, says his city “has become the center of the universe for all the wrong reasons.”

“Thank God people have stepped up,” Deacon Morse says. “You want to talk about how bad the country is, but when we have a serious situation, people come together. And not just the Christian people, either.”

 

[Mistic]

^^^^^^ actually science understands just enough to disprove about 99.9% of what's written in the Bible

 

[FairShake]

I don't believe in God. But I recognize how personal and important a person's faith is to them and how it can strengthen and better lives of them, their families, and their communities. Literally the best "anti-drug" (to quote the commercial) has been religion in my experience. Born again Christian and Muslim guys often begin to treat their wives/girlfriends and children better and become more responsible in life...on average. Consider that I come from a very working-class background though as do most of my friends and acquaintences so this may be different in other areas.

Once again, if you are criticizing people from believing in something that DOES NOT HURT YOU, then criticize yourself first because you just like to hate.

 

[Amo]

Just because God is omnipotent does not mean he has to act.

I like to think God starts the motion and while he can step in and stop whatever is going on, he usually lets life run its course.

After all, that perfect life does exist - Heaven. Where we live in now is a world of free choice and the consequences that follow.

 

[Konada]

I have nothing against God, it's his fan club I'm annoyed with.

 

[Serg897]

I've got no problem disagreeing with you fellas. What I don't understand is this negative vibe and 'attack' mode some of you go into. You really do have a soft spot for religion, huh?

I go into attack mode because religion doesn't hesitate to attack me as an atheist. Everyday you read the paper and see examples of theocratic encroachment into free society. There is a candidate for president that wants our laws to be based on "Gods law". You cant criticize certain books without a fatwa being declared against you. Its absolute madness and I'm not going to stand by and allow it to happen. People can believe whatever nonsense they want but they must leave me out of it and not infringe upon my civil liberties.

And Serg, I guess you have to say that God is responsible for the entire world since he did indeed create it. That's almost like saying Henry Ford is responsible for all car accidents.

And now you're just flailing for excuses. If God is really omnipotent he knew exactly what he was doing when he created the universe and all the problems present in the world. He knew Malaria was going to kill millions of people. He knew that our design was faulty and would lead to cancer, strokes, etc. He knew that natural disasters, disease, would cause untold suffering. And don't tell me its because of a fruit and a talking snake, if you seriously believe that you are intellectually defective. If there is a creator then he is either unbelievably lazy and inept, or unebelievably cruel and uncaring.

If you mean who is responsible for taking care of the victims, it's mostly the church. I live near the town that got hit.

Thats great, but one doesnt have to be religious to do good deeds. Plenty of atheist charities have been popping up now.

Here is a question - name a moral action that a nonbeliever CANT do, and can only be done by a believer. There is no answer. The corollary question is to name a wicked action that can ONLY be done by a believer. There are plenty.

 

[speed dawg]

I go into attack mode because religion doesn't hesitate to attack me as an atheist. Everyday you read the paper and see examples of theocratic encroachment into free society. There is a candidate for president that wants our laws to be based on "Gods law". You cant criticize certain books without a fatwa being declared against you. Its absolute madness and I'm not going to stand by and allow it to happen. People can believe whatever nonsense they want but they must leave me out of it and not infringe upon my civil liberties.



And now you're just flailing for excuses. If God is really omnipotent he knew exactly what he was doing when he created the universe and all the problems present in the world. He knew Malaria was going to kill millions of people. He knew that our design was faulty and would lead to cancer, strokes, etc. He knew that natural disasters, disease, would cause untold suffering. And don't tell me its because of a fruit and a talking snake, if you seriously believe that you are intellectually defective. If there is a creator then he is either unbelievably lazy and inept, or unebelievably cruel and uncaring.



Thats great, but one doesnt have to be religious to do good deeds. Plenty of atheist charities have been popping up now.

Here is a question - name a moral action that a nonbeliever CANT do, and can only be done by a believer. There is no answer. The corollary question is to name a wicked action that can ONLY be done by a believer. There are plenty.

You mad, bro? Now you're attacking me, calling names, etc. Basically judging and doing all the things that you were complaining that 'religion' (about as general as you can get) was doing to you.

You are a hypocrite, narrow-minded idiot with anger issues. Now proceed with your predictable "CHRISTIANS WOULDN'T CALL ME AN IDIOT!!!!1111" speech.

 

[Bible_Belt]

name a moral action that a nonbeliever CANT do, and can only be done by a believer. There is no answer.

The question is flawed. A "non-believer" has to believe in something in order to perform any action that is "moral." He has to at least believe in one moral, whatever it is.

But you're defining believer as 'one who says he believes.' Just as in dealing with women, I think actions are more important than words. What people say they believe is meaningless compared to how they act.

 

[ArcBound]

You mad, bro? Now you're attacking me, calling names, etc. Basically judging and doing all the things that you were complaining that 'religion' (about as general as you can get) was doing to you.

You are a hypocrite, narrow-minded idiot with anger issues. Now proceed with your predictable "CHRISTIANS WOULDN'T CALL ME AN IDIOT!!!!1111" speech.

In his post you just quoted he didn't call you names once and he attacked your argument not you. Maybe you're being a little too defensive dawg.

 

[ArcBound]

The question is flawed. A "non-believer" has to believe in something in order to perform any action that is "moral." He has to at least believe in one moral, whatever it is.

But you're defining believer as 'one who says he believes.' Just as in dealing with women, I think actions are more important than words. What people say they believe is meaningless compared to how they act.

That is a good point you bring in about a believer vs a person who says they believe.

You know when 9/11 and the last 10 years happened A LOT of Muslims cried out and said these terrorists weren't true Muslims. That they only said they were Muslims and completely didn't follow the teachings of Muhammad or Islam.

Then for the past 10 years fundamentalist Christians including famous televangelists, television personalities, local church leaders continued vilifying Islam and all its adherents based on the actions of a few.

So you have to realize we are in a society that if you say you are a Muslim or Christian you will be held accountable for your actions and people will apply it to your group whether or not the values and actions you took truly were what you claimed. I'm not saying that its a good thing, I'm just pointing out the context our society operates on. If every-time a Christian, or Jew, or Muslim, or Buddhist did something bad or wrong, and people condemned the action as "not a true believer, didn't follow the teachings of _______" it doesn't answer anything. You see this with the sexes too. When a woman does something in-feminist or sleeps with a douchebag or abuser, other women will cry and claim "She's not a real woman, she has low confidence, not following the true teachings of a strong woman/feminism whatver and so on and so forth. The point is a dismissal based on "wasn't a true believer even though they claim to be" does not bring a person closer to finding out the answers behind the question, or the motivator.

 

[Serg897]

You mad, bro? Now you're attacking me, calling names, etc. Basically judging and doing all the things that you were complaining that 'religion' (about as general as you can get) was doing to you.

You are a hypocrite, narrow-minded idiot with anger issues. Now proceed with your predictable "CHRISTIANS WOULDN'T CALL ME AN IDIOT!!!!1111" speech.

I never once attacked you or called you names - and your hypocrisy is ridiculous considering you are doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of. Im not surprised this is what you are resorting to though, since believers always get defensive when their theistic memes are challenged.

A "non-believer" has to believe in something in order to perform any action that is "moral." He has to at least believe in one moral, whatever it is.

Yes, and that moral source doesnt come from any deity, since there are many moral atheists. Morality seems to be innate. It really takes away our basic integrity when the theist tells me that I cant be moral without some sort of celestial surveillance camera monitoring my every move, without some sort of cosmic totalitarian telling me what is right and wrong. The golden rule, treating others the way you want to be treated, is around because if our ancestors DIDN'T do that we wouldn't be here.

You dont need religion to do good actions. However to do certain evil actions, (i.e., suicide bombings or genital cuttings), you definately need religion.

 

[speed dawg]

I never once attacked you or called you names - and your hypocrisy is ridiculous considering you are doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of. Im not surprised this is what you are resorting to though, since believers always get defensive when their theistic memes are challenged.

Oh, I see the game. You judge believers in general, I call you out for judging, then you call me out for judging? You began this whole debate on the defensive, now you accuse me of being on the defensive.

Your mind is made up, and so is mine. We are incapable of discussing this. And that's fine.

 

[ArcBound]

Oh, I see the game. You judge believers in general, I call you out for judging, then you call me out for judging? You began this whole debate on the defensive, now you accuse me of being on the defensive.

Your mind is made up, and so is mine. We are incapable of discussing this. And that's fine.

It's not just Serg, speed dawg, I saw it and lots of other people saw it too. As I already mentioned you quoted a post of his claiming he was calling you names and attacking you, and he didn't call you any sort of name in that quoted post, and he was only attacking your argument not you. He's been debating your argument and you are being irrational here.

 

[Jariel]

I go into attack mode because religion doesn't hesitate to attack me as an atheist. Everyday you read the paper and see examples of theocratic encroachment into free society. There is a candidate for president that wants our laws to be based on "Gods law". You cant criticize certain books without a fatwa being declared against you. Its absolute madness and I'm not going to stand by and allow it to happen. People can believe whatever nonsense they want but they must leave me out of it and not infringe upon my civil liberties.

I absolutely agree. This sums it up for me.

In my experience, most practising Christians, Muslims and Jews are bullies. They threaten children with torture if they don't do as they're told, and many of them even go as far as to inflict that torture on others.

 

[Warrior74]

I think only an idiot belives there is no god. Anything is possible, we don't understand a thing about our universe and our extrapolation of our discovered phenomena over the entire universe is as rediculous and ignorant as the next idea. Scientists have zero idea how to explain what we have found beyond earth and the ideas coming out of leading physicists/mathemeticians are as abstract and imposible to prove as anything I have heard related to god or art!

Anything is possible. In the end, throughout life, you must have faith in something and if people chose that to be god and he the reason they win or lose, then so be it. In the end, you can only do your best, have faith and the rest will just happen whichever way it is going to happen.

Saying scientist can't explain something falls dangerously close to the God of the Gaps theory.


The truth is, we were born not believing in god. Religion largely geographical (you tend to believe what others around you believe determined by where you were born), and has no basis in provable fact. It's a belief system. And there is nothing wrong with that. As long as we all know it's a belief system and accept it as that and not as actual fact. Remember, all the other gods you don't believe in? Odin, Allah, Zeus? An atheist just doesn't believe in ONE more.

Imagine a being who created the entire universe! Every dot you see in the sky is a star. And there are billions of them. And there are billions of planets. And this being cares about sports? I mean that some detailed level of attention by a user of a system. I fully admit that I can not comprehend a being that could do that. But I also fully admit I have zero evidience of this being existing besides what other people have told me in conflicting stories from the same and other books. The only logical conclusion is that either a. its not true or b. we will find out when we die.

As for the sports guys, they may well believe it, and it may be a source of strength and that's fine. It doesn't bother me. Because I know I don't share that belief system. Although I feel that anyone who is doing that as a put on to con people into liking them is a douche.

 

[backbreaker]

http://www.jesusdidnttap.com/

I'm ot even a christian and I think this is fvcked up lol. man. someone is going to hell with gasoline underwear on.

 

[Warrior74]

That is a good point you bring in about a believer vs a person who says they believe.

You know when 9/11 and the last 10 years happened A LOT of Muslims cried out and said these terrorists weren't true Muslims. That they only said they were Muslims and completely didn't follow the teachings of Muhammad or Islam.

Then for the past 10 years fundamentalist Christians including famous televangelists, television personalities, local church leaders continued vilifying Islam and all its adherents based on the actions of a few.

So you have to realize we are in a society that if you say you are a Muslim or Christian you will be held accountable for your actions and people will apply it to your group whether or not the values and actions you took truly were what you claimed. I'm not saying that its a good thing, I'm just pointing out the context our society operates on. If every-time a Christian, or Jew, or Muslim, or Buddhist did something bad or wrong, and people condemned the action as "not a true believer, didn't follow the teachings of _______" it doesn't answer anything. You see this with the sexes too. When a woman does something in-feminist or sleeps with a douchebag or abuser, other women will cry and claim "She's not a real woman, she has low confidence, not following the true teachings of a strong woman/feminism whatver and so on and so forth. The point is a dismissal based on "wasn't a true believer even though they claim to be" does not bring a person closer to finding out the answers behind the question, or the motivator.

This is called the No True Scotsman fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The term was advanced by philosopher Antony Flew in his 1975 book Thinking About Thinking: Do I sincerely want to be right?.[2]
Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing."
—Antony Flew, Thinking About Thinking

 

[Gaucho]

It's this kind of intolerance that's making athiests fight back. If someone wants to believe in magic, God, ghosts, elves and whatever else, that's cool and good luck to them, but the problem is when they start imposing that belief on others as though it's indisputable fact.



Exactly! This I agree on. Science will continue to search for answers, but will never know everything. We have to accept that some things will always remain a mystery.

However, most religions don't accept that. They claim that their answers are the only answers. Not only are you wrong if you believe otherwise, but you will be punished with eternal damnation for it.

My comment was not intolerance, my comment is that nobody really knows anything when it comes to God. So to think for sure he does not exist, is ignorance. Athiests seem to have some type of arrogance, like they are more logical, when really, nobody knows.

And I agree with you on how most religions claim their answers are the only ones. BUT, let us not forget, beleiving in god does not mean you have to follow a religeon.

 

[Gaucho]

^^^^^^ actually science understands just enough to disprove about 99.9% of what's written in the Bible

Ah yeh, what does it disprove? And remember, religeon is religeon, it is not god. You don't have to follow any religeon to believe there may be a higher being.