Give freely

[Desert Fox]

I can see this is going to be difficult for me. The first step I guess is not to take anything personally and not care so much when people fvck me over. I'll chalk it up to their life experience and simply put them on an imaginary list to avoid in the future. Otherwise I should hope for the best in people I meet.

 

[DarkShade]

"Just because you are generous does not mean you have to be walked over or taken advantage of, it is possible to give from a place of power."

How can this be done? I feel I must err on the side of being more secure and more defensive/pessimistic/suspicious of people in order to secure this power. How can I be generous and not have to constantly watch my back all the time living a stressful life?

Moreover, how do I treat people who have disrespected me and taken advantage of my generosity? Or better yet, how do I prevent this back stabbing in the first place? Simply not worrying about it will not solve this, I think you will agree.

I know exactly what you mean, by being generous, people will take advantage of that and find some way of getting the better of you. Even generosity can't be without its own protections and securities. Give only what you can afford to lose. That's the Responsible Gambler's mantra. If you end up spending too much time/effort/money in the act of giving that it begins to harm your life, someone is taking advantage of you, or you are letting yourself be taken advantage of.

Try to find your limits and know that you aren't some vending machine of giving, sometimes you need to shut it off until someone puts more quarters in.

 

[slaog]

Thanks for that I see what you mean now. I have a lot of things to think about. It's hard to let go what I have been living by, but I am willing to try focusing on the positive more and the better things in life.

One last thing to ask you though because this particular sentence caught my attention since it appears to offer the best of both worlds and is exactly how I aspire to be:

"Just because you are generous does not mean you have to be walked over or taken advantage of, it is possible to give from a place of power."

How can this be done? I feel I must err on the side of being more secure and more defensive/pessimistic/suspicious of people in order to secure this power. How can I be generous and not have to constantly watch my back all the time living a stressful life?

Moreover, how do I treat people who have disrespected me and taken advantage of my generosity? Or better yet, how do I prevent this back stabbing in the first place? Simply not worrying about it will not solve this, I think you will agree.

People disrespect you probably because you don't trust them in the first place. You get what you give. It's an energy.

You're worried about people not respecting you but I'm just thinking now of all the generous people I know and all the mean people I know and guess what.... I've alot more respect for the generous people! In fact thinking about it as SinJester said they are generally happier people.

If you want respect then just respect others! It's that simple basically. If you are generous then others will be generous to you.

You see in others what you see in yourself. When the world starts to seem bad you should take a good look at yourself. In fact Pook said something along those lines.

How does giving freely lead to backstabbing? If you think "I wont give freely because I would be hurt by not getting anything back" then you are not giving freely. I'm not saying you should not take anything for yourself, in fact it is my philiosphy that you have to look after yourself first. How can you give to the world if you have nothing to give? When you do give it is not to get anything back, but to make the world a better place, which is a big reward in itself.

I didn't think like this a little while ago, I was still too hurt and angry because of my AFC past where I gave too much. The difference was even though I thought I was a 'nice guy' I gave because I wanted something back. There was no difference in intention when you compare the old AFC me to someone who selfishly and agrresively goes after everything he wants. It is when you give without expecting anything back that something magical happens. Compare it to complementing a girl because you are being honest as opposed to complimenting her because you want to impress her, which one is going to work? Because as you give you receive, but only if you don't need it.

Something that help we realize all this was imaging my own funeral. If I died, what would I want people to say about me? If you do this it is a truly enlightening experiance because it helps get you in touch with your core values. For me, personally, I want people to say that I was the guy who made other peoples lives better and always would help out someone in need.

If you think you can't give to people then you are coming from a mindset of scarcity. It's funny how all this can be compared directly to seduction. With women a scarcity mentality fails, we all know that. If we think that we can't get any girls so we grab one and try and hold onto her we are the very definition of AFC. In life if we try and grab something and hold onto it because 'everyone else wants to screw us over', what does that make us?

Great Stuff SJ! :rockon:


I had a similar scarcity mindset when it comes to women and people in general. I realised that the harder I tried to make people like me the more uncomfortable it made people... in other words I was being nice while looking for something in return. Now I'm transforming my mindset to just be nice.

 

[slaog]

I had a similar scarcity mindset when it comes to women and people in general. I realised that the harder I tried to make people like me the more uncomfortable it made people... in other words I was being nice while looking for something in return. Now I'm transforming my mindset to just be nice.

I also think a big part of social proof is basically the woman checking for congruency. She's seeing are you really a nice person or just nice to her. If you're just being nice to her then obviously you're looking for something which means a scarcity, AFC mindset.

 

[Darth]

Giving of yourself for others is one of the defining qualities of a true man.

An example would be if someone spills a drink beside you. Rather than get pissed or move to a different table, running as fast as you can to get paper towels and clean it up, REGARDLESS if she is hot or not, is being a man.

 

[Desert Fox]

Well respect can be gained in 2 ways.

I prefer the way where people don't have a choice but to respect you whether they like it or not. Of course, not respecting you will lead them to failure. I think everyone thinks this way, and this is how bosses think and why everyone wants to be boss.

 

[SinJester]

Desert Fox what it sounds like you are in now is a self-fufilling prophesy. People generally act how you expect them to.

I prefer the way where people don't have a choice but to respect you whether they like it or not. Of course, not respecting you will lead them to failure. I think everyone thinks this way, and this is how bosses think and why everyone wants to be boss.

Yes but everyone hates their boss. This is actually the easier way.

 

[Jon55]

right but even if you don't expect something, you probably aren't gonna get it. no i'm not in a ltr. longest relationship i've been in lasted 3-4 weeks, can't remember. i got bored fast and stopped talking to her...dunno why but i find ppl annoying if i'm around one same person too long :\

Are you bragging about this? Because 3-4 weeks is nothing to brag about. Do you keep your jobs for 3-4 weeks and then move on because "you get annoyed if you work at the same place for too long"? I hope you find someone who's company you actually enjoy and who is still a challenge to you.

Giving is good. I'm not talking about giving that hot friend of yours flowers just out of nowhere. I'm talking about being a good person and helping others, while not expecting anything in return.

 

[Desert Fox]

I'm not bragging about it. I came to this thread because I know I have this issue and I'm trying to understand it to fix it. But before I go into the fray I want to understand the motivation behind such a tip.

 

[Desert Fox]

Also, a job is different from a relationship. I could care less about some random girl i'm in a relationship with. it felt forced so I ended it.

A job is something you enjoy. Naturally once I meet someone who I enjoy spending time with it will last.

 

[slaog]

Well respect can be gained in 2 ways.

I prefer the way where people don't have a choice but to respect you whether they like it or not. Of course, not respecting you will lead them to failure. I think everyone thinks this way, and this is how bosses think and why everyone wants to be boss.

Don't confuse fear with respect. Like in the mafia films where the boss demands respect.. really everybody is terrified of him and he is hated.


You can't make people respect you, you get it by giving people respect.


When I say give freely I'm not saying you have to take sh!t from people I'm saying be nice to people. Give everybody a chance and most normal people will respond by being nicer towards you back. If they don't then have nothing to do with them. Like a good boss will be good to his staff and trust them and give them chances if they are late etc but that doesn't mean he'll keep giving them chances if they mean to be late all the time or if they have a permenant bad attitude.


Ever come across a person who was genuinely nice and went out of his/her way to help you? You would have to like that person. Be nice to somebody and they'll be nice back in 99% of cases...

 

[SoldMySoul]

I started this thread because there are many people who look to take all the time. Take as in constantly wanting women or others to make them happy. I think an important thing in becoming a better person is the ability to give without wanting in return. Give freely...

I was going to totally dismiss this thread to start with then I glanced over it and said I disagree. THEN I gave it another chance and read the entire thread. What you are saying is similar to what Glover talks about in his book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy."

With that said, what you wrote is dead on really. I am starting to become indifferent towards women and people in general and as the book is titled, No more Mr. Nice Guy!! Not in the sense that I am huge **** or anything. Do things because they are right not because you want something in return.

Again, Nice post!!!

 

[Alle_Gory]

I also think a big part of social proof is basically the woman checking for congruency. She's seeing are you really a nice person or just nice to her. If you're just being nice to her then obviously you're looking for something which means a scarcity, AFC mindset.

I seem to have the opposite problem. I`m nice to everybody, since I like to be that way... most of the time. But usually I'm a complete a-hole to the chicks I like.

Obviously I`m not congruent. Bad?

 

[slaog]

I seem to have the opposite problem. I`m nice to everybody, since I like to be that way... most of the time. But usually I'm a complete a-hole to the chicks I like.

Obviously I`m not congruent. Bad?

I think not being congruent is always bad. It says you're not happy (or maybe not comfortable) with yourself and you act differently because you're worried about what other people think.


She may be wondering who the real you is i.e are you being nice to others to make them like you or are you being bad to her because you're using tactics.


Of course some women like being treated badly but these women are usually trouble in the long run. They see the world as a bad place and get treated badly.. thats their reality.

 

[Jon55]

I think not being congruent is always bad. It says you're not happy (or maybe not comfortable) with yourself and you act differently because you're worried about what other people think.


She may be wondering who the real you is i.e are you being nice to others to make them like you or are you being bad to her because you're using tactics.


Of course some women like being treated badly but these women are usually trouble in the long run. They see the world as a bad place and get treated badly.. thats their reality.

It's so weird (and at the same time it really isn't) that a simple point of view can completely change the way we feel. It's not something you really notice or think about, it just happens. Now I find myself seeing things in a negative light but then reevaluating if it really is that bad, and finding out it isn't.

Negative mindsets must die.

 

[SinJester]

I seem to have the opposite problem. I`m nice to everybody, since I like to be that way... most of the time. But usually I'm a complete a-hole to the chicks I like.

Obviously I`m not congruent. Bad?

I have that problem too, somewhat. Its because the DJ Bible conditions us over and over again that 'nice guys' dont get girls. In fact it's far more complicated than that. Nice guys get girls if they are giving freely and keep their power, so they are nice in the way societys describes it, but not in the way the DJ Bible describes it. I'm finding I have to make an actual effort to be nicer, which is strange because I've been overcompensating by being a jerk for so long. It's all about finding your centre.

I think if you are being an @sshole to chicks when you are a nice guy at heart you are covering your true self. You are just another type of AFC.

 

[Desert Fox]

Don't confuse fear with respect. Like in the mafia films where the boss demands respect.. really everybody is terrified of him and he is hated.


You can't make people respect you, you get it by giving people respect.


When I say give freely I'm not saying you have to take sh!t from people I'm saying be nice to people. Give everybody a chance and most normal people will respond by being nicer towards you back. If they don't then have nothing to do with them. Like a good boss will be good to his staff and trust them and give them chances if they are late etc but that doesn't mean he'll keep giving them chances if they mean to be late all the time or if they have a permenant bad attitude.


Ever come across a person who was genuinely nice and went out of his/her way to help you? You would have to like that person. Be nice to somebody and they'll be nice back in 99% of cases...

hahaha if someone is nice to me for no reason at all....

I START LOOKING FOR A REASON.

There is ALWAYS A REASON. NOTHING IS FREE. NOTHING.

So I start looking for a reason...and guess what? Usually a week (at most) later I find that reason.

people are predictable...people are selfish. and so I treat them that way.

Like it says in "the art of war"

You must HOPE FOR THE BEST and I do that...but you must always ALWAYS prepare for the worst. Do you go on a plane without a parachute? No. If nothing bad happens, GOOD. But if something bad happens, you want the parachute. You want to have your back covered.

That's how I live, I think giving freely is good, but you must have invisible iron threads linked to what you gave to snatch it back if you desire it back.

OR

You give freely things that do not matter to you in exchange for something else that you want. One man's treasure could be another man's trash. That's the basis behind trade afterall.

Anyways, thanks for writing the tip, but the way I've been living is good.

It is always better to be feared than to be loved. Feared AND loved is the best, but if you must choose, fear > love.

 

[seek&destroy]

It doesn't matter if you get nothing from nobody. You're giving to make others feel better about themselves and yes when you do live like this you do get good things back in return.




This isn't a PUA thread. This thread is a tip for becoming a better man. When you improve and become a better man women will find you more attractive and they'll want to be with you. You'll get many LTR's with quality women.

Look at peoples bright side and you may not find them so annoying.

Also remember that there is a thing called the ego. People are controled by their egos which means they act unconsciously (they react and don't mean many things they say). If somebody is being annoying just know its the ego at work.

Man you really strike a chord with me there. To me, you sound more like a psychologist or someone who's really aware of how social dynamics really work. You've got it down, and I know that was not something you haven't heard before.
So Slaog, if you're still out there and active, I salute you. Thank you for making me realize the error of my ways. I feel more humble now, more in tune with myself.
I used to be more giving, but somewhere along the line I kind of switched from giving freely into giving for a reason, and now that you've mentioned that I have finally realized where I have gone wrong. Cheers mate! You're the best, and once again, thank you for your words of wisdom. Like I said, this really opened my mind!

Take care! :woo:

 

[slaog]

Man you really strike a chord with me there. To me, you sound more like a psychologist or someone who's really aware of how social dynamics really work. You've got it down, and I know that was not something you haven't heard before.
So Slaog, if you're still out there and active, I salute you. Thank you for making me realize the error of my ways. I feel more humble now, more in tune with myself.
I used to be more giving, but somewhere along the line I kind of switched from giving freely into giving for a reason, and now that you've mentioned that I have finally realized where I have gone wrong. Cheers mate! You're the best, and once again, thank you for your words of wisdom. Like I said, this really opened my mind!

Take care! :woo:

Cheers and you're welcome! It's amazing how things can change simply by looking at things from a new angle.

Well I've been a big AFC and never been called a psychologist! lol I did date a counsellor a few months back and I know for certain that I'd do a better job without being trained because the girl needed counselling herself.

I was going to totally dismiss this thread to start with then I glanced over it and said I disagree. THEN I gave it another chance and read the entire thread. What you are saying is similar to what Glover talks about in his book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy."

With that said, what you wrote is dead on really. I am starting to become indifferent towards women and people in general and as the book is titled, No more Mr. Nice Guy!! Not in the sense that I am huge **** or anything. Do things because they are right not because you want something in return.

Again, Nice post!!!

Cheers. I didn't read that book but it seems from what you said, that it gives the same message in a different way. It's good to get different angles on things.

It's so weird (and at the same time it really isn't) that a simple point of view can completely change the way we feel. It's not something you really notice or think about, it just happens. Now I find myself seeing things in a negative light but then reevaluating if it really is that bad, and finding out it isn't.

Negative mindsets must die.

I find the more you look at the world the simpler it becomes. Simple in the sense of you receive back what you put out into the world. Think positive you'll get positive experiances back etc.

All the best DJ's out there are positive! All the biggest AFC's out there are negative (in terms of attracting women).

 

[slaog]

hahaha if someone is nice to me for no reason at all....

I START LOOKING FOR A REASON.

There is ALWAYS A REASON. NOTHING IS FREE. NOTHING.

So I start looking for a reason...and guess what? Usually a week (at most) later I find that reason.

people are predictable...people are selfish. and so I treat them that way.

Like it says in "the art of war"

You must HOPE FOR THE BEST and I do that...but you must always ALWAYS prepare for the worst. Do you go on a plane without a parachute? No. If nothing bad happens, GOOD. But if something bad happens, you want the parachute. You want to have your back covered.

That's how I live, I think giving freely is good, but you must have invisible iron threads linked to what you gave to snatch it back if you desire it back.

OR

You give freely things that do not matter to you in exchange for something else that you want. One man's treasure could be another man's trash. That's the basis behind trade afterall.

Anyways, thanks for writing the tip, but the way I've been living is good.

It is always better to be feared than to be loved. Feared AND loved is the best, but if you must choose, fear > love.

When you give freely you don't want anything back off anybody but you feel good doing it. A good feeling is the something you get back if you're truely giving without wanting anything in return.


You are being good to yourself too when doing it and why not because if you respect yourself you'll see that you are as important as anybody. When I say give freely I don't mean neglect yourself and give to others I mean give to others and feel great doing it.


We all follow certain paths so good luck with yours. At least you're questioning things and looking for the best path.