Getting Frame Back

[highSpeed]

So I've lost frame in my marriage and I think that I'm being walked on. I'm struggling to figure out how to get the frame back. My wife will argue points with me even when I am right and I can verify it.

I've been a member here for awhile but am almost always a lurker. I've arrived at a point where I'm about to lose my mind, so any advice on how to do so would be greatly appreciated.

 

[latinnova]

You are speaking of a woman, they do not have any logical points, they just run off of pure emotion, so of course your brain is about to explode because you literally can not process the nonsense coming out of her mouth. It's all about emotions with these women, logic has nothing to do with it. As to how to handle it, there is no real way to win these types of argument's man, you just have to deal with the aftermath. This reminds me of why I shall never marry again, bad memories.

EDIT: Here man, here is a Video to give you insight on your situation. It NAILS it!!

 

[highSpeed]

It never ends, it just never ends. Even when she is verifiably wrong, she won't admit it. It gets to the point where I don't even want to be around her much anymore. I actually work longer so I don't have to be around as much. She usually tries power moves and tries to control and it drives me frickin nuts. If I don't back down, I'm either argumentative or a bully and it leads to a fight, which usually leads to her threatening to leave. I don't want a divorce, as I've worked too hard to give away half.

 

[Warrior74]

You need to do a lot of reading.

Relationship Game
http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/

f all she’s ever known is the Beta you, convincing her you’ve gone Alpha is a tough road to hoe. An Alpha shift in an LTR is threatening to a woman who’s built a lifestyle around the predictability of the Beta guy she committed to. It stirs up the competition anxiety she’s been numbed to for a long time, and while that’s beneficial in prompting her genuine desire for you, it also upsets her sense of security. It’s for this reason that Beta men are reluctant to experiment with being more dominant; they carry over from their singlehood the same mistaken belief that women require comfort, familiarity and security in order to become intimate or “feel sexy”. They still fail to grasp, even in marriage, that sex by definition requires anxiety to be grounded in genuine desire. Sexual tension requires urgency.

More Relationship game :

I used to tell her the typical lies of a cowed and fearful married man that is the ubiquitous caricature of men in today’s feminist warped mass media… “No honey, I ONLY have eyes for you! I promise! I don’t even LOOK at other women!”

In retrospect, I can’t believe I spent YEARS protesting innocence and begging her to not get upset, and never realized that taking that tact ALWAYS resulted in bad feelings and “relationship problems.”

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/


Frame :
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

In most contemporary marriages and LTR arrangements, women tend to be the de facto authority. Men seek their wive’s “permission” to attempt even the most mundane activities they’d do without an afterthought while single. I have married friends tell me how ‘fortunate’ they are to be married to such an understanding wife that she’d “allow” him to watch hockey on their guest bedroom TV,…occasionally.

These are just a couple of gratuitous examples of men who entered into marriage with the frame firmly in control of their wives. They live in her reality, because anything can become normal. What these men failed to realize is that frame, like power, abhors a vacuum. In the absence of the frame security a woman naturally seeks from a masculine male, this security need forces her to provide that security for herself. Thus we have the commonality of cuckold and submissive men in westernized culture, while women do the bills, earn the money, make the decisions, authorize their husband’s actions and deliver punishments. The woman is seeking the security that the man she pair-bonded with cannot or will not provide.

It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized. As I stated in the beginning, frame will be fluid and conditions will influence the balance, but the overall theme of your relationship needs to be led and molded by you. Even very influential, professional, intellectualizing women still crave the right man to establish his frame in her life. They may fight it bitterly, but ultimately it’s what will make for the best healthy balance she can achieve. There’s a growing undercurrent of mid-life women questioning and regretting their past decisions to remain single into spinsterhood. And for all their late game rationalizations, the one thing they still simply refuse to accept is acknowledging that a man’s frame, the frame their “fierce independence” wouldn’t allow for, was exactly the salve their egos so desperately wants now later in life.

Weapon of Last Resort : Dread Game :

http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/27/dread-games/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/02/dread-game-vs-reality-game/

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/5680/my-first-time-playing-the-dread-game

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/the-power-of-dread-game/

 

[Tenacity]

Espi took some of the words RIGHT out of my mouth.

Guys, there's no maintaining frame or any other seduction or player related tactic when it comes to marriage. You want to talk about losing "frame," well you lose frame the moment you say "I Do."

Stop getting married. There's no financial, personal, spiritual, masculine, community, mental, emotional, or ANY other related benefit for you as a MAN to get married.

The only thing us guys should be debating now is whether or not to create kids. The Child Support System is totally screwed but you aren't AS SCREWED with Child Support as you are with Marriage. You could actually live through the Child Support chaos, maintain your freedom, maintain your sanity and maintain a good life.

 

[Atom Smasher]

highSpeed, please post your age in your profile. 25 or older to post here and age must be in profile. Thanks.

 

[Greasy Pig]

Google Dave from Hawaii. He wrote an excellent blog on this very topic.

 

[sodbuster]

I'd start stashing cash for the coming Divorce. If you won't put up with it, and she won't change, THAT'S what's coming. I KNEW I wanted change or I wanted OUT. I also figured SHE wouldn't change. We wasted a YEAR in marriage counseling.... except it gave me a chance to stash more cash....

start lifting and using competition anxiety, dread game, and on heartiste, read the Dave from Hawaii letter

 

[sodbuster]

Red Pill Room also has some decent stuff for your needs

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

The only way to gain frame control over ANYBODY is to have something they want and only give it to them on your terms, not theirs.

It's not about right or wrong or logic.

Just eject mentally whenever you're around her. Never, ever argue. When she says something you KNOW is wrong, just say, "yea, maybe you're right" and then fade the topic.

Whenever she wants you to do something, your attitude should be:

"yea, I understand you want me to do that, and I'm doing this."

Never explain. Don't ignore her. Listen to her, validate her, and then do your own thing, in your own house.

Like she's ONLY capable of offering you her opinion, but NEVER capable of influencing yours.

Find hobbies that you can enjoy, especially when she's around.

Your attitude should be, "You're my wife, I love you, I respect you AND I am completely happy with or without you. Your choice. I can go either way."

In order to gain the frame, YOU MUST LEAD, and SHE MUST FOLLOW.

the ONLY thing in your control is whether you lead or not.

Whether or not she'll follow is another story. Not likely since no matter WHAT she does, she's guaranteed half your cash.

Start stashing some cash for a divorce. And get ready, as it's likely coming.

But make HER the one to bring it up.

Just understand for this to work, you're in for a LOOOOOOONG con.

 

[jimmy18]

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180488

 

[pumpkin-head]

Losing a frame is very difficult to get back if ever.

 

[Bokanovsky]

It never ends, it just never ends. Even when she is verifiably wrong, she won't admit it. It gets to the point where I don't even want to be around her much anymore. I actually work longer so I don't have to be around as much. She usually tries power moves and tries to control and it drives me frickin nuts. If I don't back down, I'm either argumentative or a bully and it leads to a fight, which usually leads to her threatening to leave. I don't want a divorce, as I've worked too hard to give away half.

This is a bit of a vicious circle. To get the frame back, you have to not care about her leaving. But how can you not care, if you stand to lose half of what you have (even more, if you take legal fees into account). This is why marriage is a trap for a financially successful man. If you were an unemployed drug addict, you could have all the frame in the world.

The post linked below is a great example. The guy used his wife for money (to pay off debts), did drugs, and when she left him, started banging a hotter, younger chick. Doesn't sound like he's worried about getting the frame back either.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=219785

 

[highSpeed]

I'm actually 40 guys and still as stupid about women as I was when I was 21. I guess I'm a late learner. If only I had known back then what I know now. It is a vicious cycle. I've worked 20 years to get to a spot where I make dam good money. I've worked my way up, built a company and I'm stuck. Don't want to be miserable or walk on egg shells the rest of my life but don't want to give away the farm by walking away. They say no one changes until the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of change and I think I'm reaching that point. Its just tough to entertain the notion of a second divorce.

I'm a pretty smart guy when it comes to everything else except women. I want to see the best and then am disappointed when reality rears its ugly head. I swear, every single woman has something wrong with them. There was this Cheap Trick song that said, "Sleeping with an angel, woke up with a monster" that I always think of these days. They never let you see the real monster until you've paid the price for admission. I would NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, get married again.

I would say you guys are right, there's no reason for her to follow me, even if I am the best leader. Women know they can check out as soon as they want, there's no reason to listen or follow anyone. Kind of hard to submit to listening or following anyone when you know that you get half or more no matter what. You have to keep them in dating mode and just don't go any further.

 

[highSpeed]

I'm definitely struggling with all of these thoughts that are going through my mind. Ultimately, life is too short to spend trying to struggle for power with someone. I think what I am going to do is set a time limit and if things are not going in the direction I want them to go in, its going to be time to look in some other direction. With all the threats she launches all the time, I'm sure she is doing the same.

She is good at twisting and making everything seem my fault. She is good at blindsiding me with, "I've been thinking." She gaslights, she always makes her opinions on things seem more valid than mine, she is downright rude and disrespectful when she is angry. I could go on and on, I never saw this side of her before we got married, I would never have expected this in my wildest imagination. I assumed with my first wife, who is diagnosed BPD and borderline, that this was an aberration and that marriage can be a good thing but they always change when you marry them or get in a relationship with them, always. When you are dating, its let me do this, let me suck this, let me take care of you. After you get into a LTR or married, its you never do this, I always do everything, its like a total bait and switch.

 

[sodbuster]

How much she gets depends on the state you live in and length of marriage. Talk to a lawyer..... SHE probably has and is putting in the time it takes to guarantee she get's half.....