Frustration- Going from meeting to dating.

[Doppler4000]

Guys, I'm really at my wits' end here. I've spent a lot of time over the past year year trying to go from a guy whose luck with women historically only came when something just fell into my lap to someone who could take charge and really make things happen on my own. To a large extent, I've been successful. I went from screwed up approaches to better approaches that got me numbers but no dates. After that I focused more on reading and building interest level during the intial meeting to have a better chance of actually going on a date after getting that number. That, as well, has been successful. In the last couple months I've met a couple people and gotten 1-2 dates from each.

So here's the problem... I go out on these dates. They really seem to go well. Good activities, good conversation, all that stuff. I keep it light and fun, no excessive complements, basically keeping to all the usual guidelines. In response I get a lot of good signals, touching initiated by her, etc.. So I figure everything's set, right? Well, wrong! In both of the last two cases I've gotten to the point where at the end of the date I asked about getting together again, and they basically give a positive response. So a couple days later I call up, leave a message proposing another date- and then that's it.... they don't return the call and, much to my disapointment, that's the end of it.

This is getting really draining. Is this happening to anyone else? Are these women (who are in their late 20's) these days really so flaky as to give almost all the signals of high interest when they really aren't? Of course, I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong, but there don't seem to be any glaring mistakes. When you guys first start dating someone, how far apart do you expect those first few dates to be? How would you react to a girl that seems to be interested and then doesn't return a call proposing another date?

I don't know, this is a lot of questions but I'm really down and frustrated because every time I think I've made progress towards getting women I can date on a regular basis (that's the goal here) something weird happens or another big obstacle in the process comes up. This site focuses so much on the pick up but, as hard as that is to find single women, it seems to me like that's not even the hardest part! Anyways, I'd appreciate any insight or encouragement that you have to help pick me up a bit here.

 

[am4591]

First of all, at the end of the date, don't even mention getting together again. Keep her wondering. Also, you might want to wait a few days longer to call her again.

As for the rest, from your post, it sounds like the dates themselves go okay. Maybe you're being too much of a nice guy, somebody they would see only as a friend, not enough of a challenge. It would help if you gave us a more detailed account of one of the dates.

 

[OddTech]

Don't be frustrated. I am 26 years old with only 5 dates in the last year. How about that?! Who should be frustrated now?

I don't think you're doing things too badly. However, I suggest that you should really take some risks on your next one. That means you should go for a kiss (on the lips) at the end of the first dates. There is no other choice. You need to be more aggressive with your action. If the kiss went well, you leave the girl wanting more. She'll most likely agree to a second date.

At the end of the date, don't tell her when you'll call. Be mysterious and project the image that you're a busy man. I usually call like 3-4 days after the first date to set up a second date.

On a more fundamental level, you should really read over some posts like "Be a Man" by Pook. You don't need a girl to make you happy. Remember that. You have a list of other things to be focused on, like building castles and what-not, and women should NOT be on that list. "Getting girls to date on a regular basis as a goal" will just make you project desperation.

If a girl flake, don't worry, let it slide. It happens all the time. Sometimes a girl will act interested during the date, but they do it to be friendly. You just think she is interested. For this, you look for actions. If she doesn't respond to your second call, you know she's not interested. Some people on this board suggest to try again (give three strikes). You can try that too. But after those three tries, it's time to next.

 

[Doppler4000]

OddTech- yeah, sounds like we're in reasonably similar situations. I think these are some good points. I know I don't project desparation. But, when stuff like this with the women happens, I probably do privately let it get to me more than it should. And particularly when it's someone you're pretty interested in. It's not like I don't have other things going on in my life, either... but it just happens that way. Is there anything else where you could make so much progress yet, in the end, still basically not accomplish anything?

It's interesting that both responders suggested not talking about future plans on the date. I think that could be a good point. BUT- here's the thing. Do you really think something as simple as trying to make a future plan with a chick that appears to have high interest level on the spot vs. just waiting a couple days and calling again to ask about another date would make that big of a difference??? It just doesn't seem to me that it could, and certainly there are guys who break this rule plenty, but maybe that's where I still have much to learn and I should just start pretending to be much busier than I am.

Years ago, when girls weren't interested, they didn't act interested. Heck, most of the time they wouldn't even give out their numbers. I really wish that these women would just be a little more honest about where they stand, but I guess that's asking too much.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Doppler4000
Years ago, when girls weren't interested, they didn't act interested. Heck, most of the time they wouldn't even give out their numbers. I really wish that these women would just be a little more honest about where they stand, but I guess that's asking too much.

There is a lot of truth to this. Nowadays women seem as if they can't say 'no' in that they feel the we have very fragile egos. Where the hell do they get that idea.

In you instance, it just may be a lack of chemistry. Nothing against you or your DJ skills, but lets face it chemistry is important. Just look as it as oil and water. Both are very necessary but can not be mixed. Just wait until you find your the right chemical compound for you. You will know it immediately.

 

[uniassign]

The problem is not what time you call, or whether you set up the next date when you are out with her or not. It is a matter of what happened on the actual date itself.

What most people on this site don't get is that being a challenge WON'T magically raise interest level. There must be some interest to start with. Just because an ugly girl plays hard to get doesn't mean I will want to sleep with her.

Similarly, I think your stumbling block is what you are doing with the girls on the date. Everyone can have pleasant conversation, but in order to get a second round with a girl, you must STAND out from all the other guys she is seeing, and this means you must make her qualified to spend time with you. Most guys would fall over just to date a girl, but if you make her chase you, then the whole dynamics would change.

This means you must TEASE her, make her laugh, do activities that NO OTHER guy has done with her. Everyone can go out for coffee, but not many guys will take a chick to the observatory for a first date and explain (in an interesting fashion) all the consellations.

How many times have you asked a chick what she did on the weekend and she say something like "Oh, you know, just went out for coffee with this guy BLAH BLAH BLAH".

Think about how much she can gossip to her friends when she say "Oh, I went to the art gallery to see 16th Century paintings with this interesting guy, then we went for coffee at this new place BLAH BLAH BLAH". Questions will then be asked by her girlfriend. The more she talks about you, the more she wants to see you again.

So think about what you are doing on the first date. That's where I see you are falling.

 

[Cocoon]

Im glad that everyone is starting be honest, quick note, everyone has said all but one thing, never leave a message, a girl can get back to it whenever she wants find out when she is home, and call her then, that way she HAS to talk to you other than the option of calling you IF she feels like it, i feel ya man, everone been there, if they are not right this moment. Remember when you go as low as you can, the ONLY way to go is up. If she doesn't call you back, no sweat off your back, her loss, and say this word with me...NEXT!...

 

[davelmn2003]

Same problem here. Brought her to this nice restaurant that she has never been to before. Both she and her friend were impressed. Like you, I talked about getting together at the end of the date.

At the end of the first date I said I'd give her a call next week? And she said yes. (I didn't say when so you can say I kept some "mystery" there). Called a few days later, she picked up the phone and we made plans for a second date.

All went well. At the end of the second date we discussed plans for a third date; it was a group date--she was asking me to introduce a friend of mine to her friend. I said to myself: wow now I'm definitely in it. They even seemed anxious as to when we were actually going to have a group date.

Called back a few days later. No one answered. No answering machine. No more news from her ever. WTF?

You never really know whether you've secured a woman's heart I guess. They have too many options at their hands...

 

[Doppler4000]

I don't think this necessarily applies to my most recent situation, but yeah- it's definitely a good point to pay much attention to what you pick out for dates, and not to relax as far as the way you act once you've made the pick-up and gotten out on the date.

On a related note- have any of you guys applied the 2 or 3 strikes rule to a girl who unexplainably didn't call you back once and actually recovered? Any tips on that or do you just do the obvious and hope for the best?

 

[squirrels]

I dunno...the way women carry around their damned cellphones everywhere nowadays, there's NO excuse for her not being able to call you.

The thing I hate about "dating" is that it fomalizes the whole process. It becomes less of a sexual encounter and more of the formal "girlfriend/boyfriend" routine. I don't want to be seen as another "suitor" by women, so I hate getting into the date garbage.

 

[MisterAl]

As far as the "2 or 3 strikes" rule and applying it goes, I've never had a girl call me back in that situation. It think the rule exists mostly to protect us. If the rule didn't remind us to step back and look at the situation and realize we're not getting a call back because she's not interested, then maybe we would relapse into wasting time with uninterested women. I know I would, and I'd get hurt again and not meet better women instead.

Definitely avoid discussing future plans on dates, especially the first few. I know how good it feels right then and there, but dammit it's only her words and not her feelings. The words are meaningless, even when they feel good. Let making future plans be the perfect reason to call her up in a few days when you set the time and place.

Three months ago, two girls I was seeing told me they wanted to see me again and made future plans with me at the ends of dates, one after a second date, and the other a fourth date! I never saw either one again, and I had to apply the 3-strike rule to keep myself from slipping back to AFC-dom because they weren't returning my calls. Hell, two weeks ago a girl tried to make future plans with me after a date, I agreed and I'm not going to call her back because I've got something better going on. I suck too.

Just tell her good-night, kiss her good-night and leave it. Don't talk about dates or phonecalls. She might even bring up the subject if she's got enough IL. Just nod and say good-night. The kiss tells you the story of what's really going on, and the suspense will keep her thinking of you for a while.

 

[xblitz44x]

"The problem is not what time you call, or whether you set up the next date when you are out with her or not. It is a matter of what happened on the actual date itself." -uniassign

Money. This is so true. I can't figure out where you're fvcking up until you start posting EXACTLY what happened on the date. Try to use details. I think a lot of the problem is that you're choosing girls that already HAVE low IL in you. So it's not that the things you're doing on the date are turning her off, it's that she was never turned on to begin with. You'd think that since she gave her number and gone out with you that she's DEFINITELY interested but that's not the case at all.

I wouldn't worry about the days you waited to call, or little things like that. I call the next day, 2 days, the day of...whenever I feel like it and have time. As long as you're not desperate about it you can call whenever you want. Post some more details about dates you went on and we'll try to figure out if she was interested to begin with, or if it was something you did to turn her off DURING the date.

-Blitz

 

[Doppler4000]

Actually, I don't think it's necessary to post all the details, because I think the dates themselves go really well. The points about making sure all the ideas are unique are good, as well as keep the charm working the same as the night you meet and not relaxing. It's probably also a very good idea to get out of the habit of setting up future dates before the previous one's over. I think that might be creating too much pressure too soon- as well as taking some of the mystery and challenge out of things. I really think changing those things alone might be enough to solve some of my problems.