Friend Zone or no?

[Werman]

I've been seeing this chick for about a month, and she started throwing me some weird curveballs this last week and a half... a little background:

There's a strong possibility that she will be moving at the end of May, so she told me up front that she wasn't sure whether or not this could go anywhere.

She had broken up with the self-described "love of her life" about a month prior to us going out.

She's very religious (I am too), and thus takes anything sexual very slow. Not that she won't sleep with a guy before marriage, she just takes it reeeal slow. I know this from sources other than just her.


So here's what's gone on.

Everything had been going pretty well, we'd been having a lot of fun hanging out, we had been touching each other more, etc. and then when I tried to kiss her about 2 weeks ago, I was denied. The very next day, she calls me and gives me the dreaded "LJBF" line. After the kiss rejection, I pretty much knew it was coming. My answer to her, "No."

This completely floored her. She is a very pretty girl, and since she sticks to religious circles, is in VERY high demand among what single guys are left in our age group. She seems to have a little collection of guys that are "just friends." She demanded an explanation, after all, isn't being friends a great thing? I explained to her that it wouldn't be true friendship with one of us having feelings for the other and whether intentional or not, this would be abused. So, I said goodbye and hung up.

I didn't see or speak to her for several days. Out of nowhere, she starts sending me little messages on facebook asking me "Are you mad at me?" and saying "I feel bad!" I met these with silence. Saturday night, she blew up my phone with text messages saying stuff like, "What are you up to?" and "I'm bored" I actually responded to these by asking her what she was doing... when she told me that she was staying in on a Saturday night, I told her that she had become an old woman (because of the culture in my state, a single woman pushing 30 is pretty much a spinster, and she is self conscious about her age) and should just take up knitting. She responded saying that she doesn't like to sew, and I shot back with "Shut up and make me a sweater! I gotta get back to my friends and the concert!" and then didn't respond for the rest of the night.

Sunday at church. When I walked in to our small group, she actually pulled out a chair for me to sit next to her. I walked past it and sat on the other side of the room, and smiled at her when I sat down. She started "jokingly" telling the other girls that I may seem sweet, but I was really mean. I just sorta grinned. After the group discussion was over, as we walked out, I asked everyone what they were doing for lunch (pretty standard every week) and the girl immediately perked up and suggested a place. I said, "ok, see everyone there."

At the restaurant, only two other people in addition to her showed up. She sat down right across from me and started in with some very direct eye contact. During the course of lunch, we decided to go to a movie (all 4 of us.)

However, I noticed as I was driving off, the girl was talking to the other 2 people in our party. When I got to the theatre, she was the only one that showed. During the movie, she started getting really close, and at one point, I thought she was even leaning in for a kiss.

Now, I find out that this girl is thinking she will be staying in my area and NOT moving...


So my question is... is she worth it? She already tried to flake once. I can't really just use her for sex since she isn't going to put out. The whole LJBF thing really pissed me off. Besides, I have another girl I've been seeing around here that is younger and hotter, and waaaay freakier... and I'm meeting another girl in a town an hour and a half away who I've known for several years and she wants to "catch up." By that I mean fukk. A lot.

So, would you guys expend any time or energy dealing with a girl that tried to flake? Am I actually in the Friend Zone and she is just messing with me?

 

[STR8UP]

The cat smacks the mouse and the mouse comes back for more....

You missed your golden opportunity. When she started blowing up your phone you had ONE CHANCE to tell her to come over and suck your c0ck. No matter what the response, she would NOT have hated you for it- trust me.

Blow her off some more and when she comes around tell her that you are horny and want her to come over and take care of you. If she does not comply, delete her number.

 

[Luveno]

She wants to get things back on her terms. Her original terms were for you to be ok with the "LJBF". Since you weren't, she felt as if things did not go her way. Now she is trying as hard as she can to reverse the power game in her favor.

Here is what she will do: she will get you alone, act seductively, and then when you go for the kiss she will put up the biggest wall you've ever seen! Except this time, she won't ask to be your friend. She'll just leave on the higher ground.

Don't give her the opportunity. Besides, you say you have better, younger, hotter chicks at your disposal. Why waste your time with a bible-thumper who's past her prime?

 

[Werman]

Don't give her the opportunity. Besides, you say you have better, younger, hotter chicks at your disposal. Why waste your time with a bible-thumper who's past her prime?

The reason I am even considering giving her another chance is because before she pulled this crap, she was really demonstrating a lot of potential for a LTR. More so than the younger, hotter girls I've been hooking up with, who will all be going home for the summer (Curse of the college town.) I do have another potential LTR in the girl I'm seeing from out of town, but it's not as strong as this one.

You missed your golden opportunity. When she started blowing up your phone you had ONE CHANCE to tell her to come over and suck your c0ck. No matter what the response, she would NOT have hated you for it- trust me.

I actually considered that. I was at a concert when she was doing this and thought about telling her to come out. However, I knew she wouldn't care for the atmosphere, and there was a really hot girl there that works as a waitress here in town that I had been flirting with for a few weeks. I wound up taking her home. Oh, and I made sure my "friend" knew about it...

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Werman,
You have played this really well,I wonder if this Forum has given you the Wherewithal to perform so well......The advice you have had is on the Money,and you know it too.....In my youth,some of the wildest girls would hang with Christian groups and many were easy marks.Today in this country Protestant Churches have been decimated,generally only the religious zealots have stayed the course....Many very lovely girls for sure,great for raising a family,unlikely to stray,but sexually rather traditional.If you would be happy with Nooky once a week fine,most guys settle down to that.However guys reading this forum are in general at the extreme end of the Bell curve for Sexual appetite....So keep this Girl as a friend,her value to you is as an academic exercise,even though she will come around just be nice and look elsewhere for your Oats.My comments would not hold for Catholic Girls who I have found,having in Australia inherited an Irish and Italian Culture,are much more relaxed.

 

[speed dawg]

Most times when you get put in the FZ the first time, you never really get out. You can play the game, like you're doing, and you might get some one of these days, but I doubt this chick is into you enough for you to keep her in a relationship. Just MHO.

When somebody comes along that really gets her juice flowing, you'll be tossed aside. I'd do what Str8up said. Call her up, try and get something off of her for your efforts.

I know you think she'd be great for a relationship, yadda yadda. You've already got her on a pedestal.

 

[Mr. Me]

Not that she won't sleep with a guy before marriage, she just takes it reeeal slow.

You ever wake up next to a girl you've just met the night before and she says, "I never do anything like this!" They say that because they rarely do anything like that... but they DO do it now and then. Don't go by what other people have said of their experiences with her or what they know of her experiences. It has to do with how she responds to YOU, not anyone else.

and then when I tried to kiss her about 2 weeks ago, I was denied.

So all that touching and having fun was not really about her feeling romantic toward you, and that was the BIG flag. Next day she decides to let you know in no uncertain terms with her LJBF. You saying "no" may have come as a surprise to her, but believe me, it's not your call.

She likes you taking her out to relieve her boredom, dude ("she blew up my phone with text messages saying stuff like, "What are you up to?" and "I'm bored" ") but she's not interested in more then that, and it's not because she's religious.

And you have new prospects that are younger, hotter, so why indeed waste your time, money and effort on someone who wants you for entertainment purposes?

 

[DJDamage]

Here is what she will do: she will get you alone, act seductively, and then when you go for the kiss she will put up the biggest wall you've ever seen! Except this time, she won't ask to be your friend. She'll just leave on the higher ground.

I second that.

It is not rare for a woman to offer "LJBF" to a guy as a line of rejection but it is even rarer for a guy to reject her offer and call her on her bullsh1t.

Good on you for calling a spade a spade but be aware that she will attempt to weaken your position by 'acting' as if she wants you because that's the only way she knows how to bring you back to her circle.

I would NEXT her.

 

[jonwon]

Personnally, if this was me.

And by the way I think you handled it very well.

I'd invite her over to my place - get some wine in, get a couple of films.

Dim the lights, light a few candles - make it nice and cosy - And let the wine start flowing - i.e buy her a nice white wine and you drink what-ever, normally guys drink red and i prefer that too.

Stick the films on -

Whilst she is drinking her wine, put your hand around her waist and pull her towards you - if she resists! turn of the tv, cork up your wine and boot the ***** out!

If she does not resist, enjoy the films, play it cool - Keep the wine flowing and when your tipsy enough to not give a shi* go in for the kiss and take the rest from there.

I'd play this aggressive - I wouldn't ask or seek permission, basicly setting up a situation where she has to be close to you and going for it - If she resists again, then get rid and dont look back -

The only reason I say this was because it seems like she could have asked the people in the taxi to not come, meanings he may have realized she made a mistake and now wants you to smash down her walls, so to speak.

Or you could simply, tell her she is invited to your place, with a movie, some wine and a nice cosy couch - if she does not get the hint from that - she is past help. Then its upto you to push it further and i'd cave man it, i really would - i'd wait till the films on, she has her wine poured and i'd put my hand around her waist and coax her towards me, well its more like pulling her in a gentle manner so she moves and your not actually pulling her at all - i've done this plenty of times.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

We only chase what runs away from us.

Familiarity and comfort are anti-seductive. Remove that comfort and replace it with an unexpected, seemingly erratic response and you will create anxiety. This anxiety, discomfort and unpredictability is exactly what fosters sexual tension. This is the foundation of progressing from attraction into seduction and on to rapport.

Most AFCs have been conditioned for the better part of their lifetimes to think that comfort, friendship and familiarity are the way to a sexual state through a constant repetition of women telling them the same in order to avoid seeming shallow or as a preemptive ASD. The AFC only gets more frustrated when that same woman ends up ƒucking another guy after a second date. Why? Because that intercourse flowed from attraction into seduction into sexuality and THEN into rapport, with all the intervening stages of anxiety, uncertainty, discomfort and the imaginings that come with it. If the initial attraction is there, you should never need to plead your case or qualify yourself as a source of comfort and reliability; this is anti-sexual and women on some level of consciousness acknowledge this.

Now, your situation is an excellent example of a man poeticizing his presence. Your LJBF refusal turned her around because she'd grown accustomed to an accepting response and it was the last thing she expected. NOW she considers your attention more seriously. By doing the takeaway you did, you've poeticized her perception of you. Now her imagination is sparked, now she thinks about you in your absence - this is exactly where you want a woman to be in the initial stages of attraction and seduction. Most AFCs think that declining a LJBF is mean or selfishly hurtful; it's not, it's your chance to reset from a condition of familiarity back into anxiety.

 

[Werman]

Most AFCs think that declining a LJBF is mean or selfishly hurtful; it's not, it's your chance to reset from a condition of familiarity back into anxiety.

I learned this lesson the hard way. Luckily, I learned it pretty early in life, at about 16. I fell hard for a girl at another high school, got the LJBF after going out on a couple of dates, and proceeded to do all the textbook crap you read about on this site, being her emotional tampon while she *****ed to me about all the guys she was fukking. About a year later, I finally opened up a bit and saw that there were a lot of other girls out there that were really interested in me, and I wised up and realized what I had put myself through for doing what an AFC would call the "right" thing. Declining an LJBF may be mean and hurtful to them, but they'll get over it in about 5 minutes (if that.) Accepting it will be mean and hurtful for you for a loooong time.

I wonder if this Forum has given you the Wherewithal to perform so well...

While I learned my LJBF lesson long ago, I have often been perceived as a complete ******* for rejecting it over the years. I give major props to this site for validating an attitude that has gotten me the ire of women and men (who I now recognize as androgynous AFCs) for years. I definitely rejected the LJBF with a lot more confidence thanks to Sosuave.

I know you think she'd be great for a relationship, yadda yadda. You've already got her on a pedestal.

I do have her on a bit of a pedestal, but it's simply because of my current long term goals in relationships. I would very much like to start a family in the next 5-10 years, and from what I know of this one, she would potentially be a very good wife and mother. I tend to think of it as though she was the strongest candidate for the job in her first interview, but her subsequent behavior is starting to disqualify her. I may have her on a pedestal because I initially liked what I saw, but I am hardly pining over her in the pains of oneitis. The plate spinning advice I've gotten on here REALLY works to stave that off

I guess what I was really wanting to see is if she was worth making time for at this point. I am actually quite busy with work, training, and just going out with friends and enjoying life (not to mention dating girls that AREN'T playing bull$**** games.) I think between my gut instinct and the answers I've gotten on here I have a pretty good idea of what to do.

Barring a pretty over-the-top gesture on her part, I'm going to next her.

 

[decades]

I see you as Really really liking this chick. You want so much for it to work. But I am with Str8up. Call her bluff. Tell her to come over and make sure she understands what it is all about. If she defers or plays the innocent, forget about her. Have her Only on your terms.

 

[speed dawg]

I guess what I was really wanting to see is if she was worth making time for at this point. I am actually quite busy with work, training, and just going out with friends and enjoying life (not to mention dating girls that AREN'T playing bull$**** games.) I think between my gut instinct and the answers I've gotten on here I have a pretty good idea of what to do.

It sounds like you're doing OK. There are still some girls out there that can get to even the best DJ's. I think the key here is to improve yourself all-around enough to where you can have your cake and eat it too, ie finding a girl that knocks your socks off but having the manhood that keeps her into you as well. In this society we live in, you can either look at this as easy or hard to do. I prefer easy.

 

[STR8UP]

I see you as Really really liking this chick. You want so much for it to work. But I am with Str8up. Call her bluff. Tell her to come over and make sure she understands what it is all about. If she defers or plays the innocent, forget about her. Have her Only on your terms.

Yea, he threw her for a loop by rejecting her terms. Sometimes that's enough to spark some attraction. Hell, ANYTHING that goes against what most guys would do has the potential to spark attraction.

This is the perfect time to turn the tables. Really the ONLY time to turn the tables.

Sometimes the best position to be in is where you have nothing to lose. If you can keep yourself aware and recognize what is happening you can do stuff you normally wouldn't do. Go caveman on her ass. She's already dealt you the blow. When you are already on the ground there's nowhere to go but UP.

 

[Mr. Me]

Your LJBF refusal turned her around

Turned her around? She still even hasn't so much as kissed him. All she was, was surprised by his refusal. But "turned around"? She's just calling him for him to relieve her boredom.

I do have her on a bit of a pedestal, but it's simply because of my current long term goals in relationships.

Let me see if I follow this logic. Because you have the goal someday of being in a great relationship, that makes this woman worthy of being on a pedestal. So, if someday I hope to write the great American novel, there's a copy of TV Guide I ought to idolize.

I would very much like to start a family in the next 5-10 years, and from what I know of this one, she would potentially be a very good wife and mother

Yeah, I'm sure she'd be a great wife - to someone she actually wants to kiss. It doesn't seem to be you, though. Wouldn't you rather be with a woman who's all over you?

Also, if it's your goal to be in a relationship in five to ten years, first off, you have no idea where she'd be at in five to ten years. Secondly, that's a long enough time in which you may very well change your mind by then about your goals or about who you want to share them with.

Your problem is that you want her so badly that you're not reading the sitch correctly.

 

[grinder]

So many words for this chick, so much attention and focus, and to be classifying her as a potential LTR?

That’s the biggest red flag. Potential LTR, huh? How do you know this?

I think you’ve lost your frame, your focus, and the power.

Stop it with all the words and plans for the future. You cannot talk or verbally “DJ” her. A single kiss denied is not a denial, unless you feel that way.

To defocus from her you should see the others, if not only to regain balance in your perception. Every second you think only of her erodes your frame.

Get together, escalate, if you meet resistance, pull back, and re-escalate. More resistance, pull back even further; all the while having your focus on multiple women, not just her.

You are the man that is going to kiss her. This is honest and sincere and the clearest form of communication. If she does not want that then move on. Don’t talk or play DJ games: DO.