FR: What was she thinking

[EmotionalGeek]

A little background story: I was meeting this girl for about 7 months. I'm 34 she is 25. She asked me about my age few times but I treated it as a sh1t test and joked that I'm much older. So at some point she thought she knew the answer and said that I'm 28 (many chicks says that. I'm not sure whether I look younger or it's just wishful thinking in their age group). About 3 weeks ago. She took my driving license from my cabinet when I was in bathroom and saw that I'm 34. She was shocked. Next time we saw 2 weeks ago she looked bad and after a while she said that I'm too old and she would never go out with me if she knew. Then she said that we probably have different plans for live because of age gap (of course I never spoke about my plans and she neither -- she spoke very little about herself but ask a ****-ton of questions, which annoyed me). I told her that if she don't want to meet with me there was the door. She mentioned my age few times more so I said that there was the door few more times or joked about it. So at some point she decided to go to the door (not after me mentioning it). Stayed at the door and looked as if she waited for something. I don't like hanging at the door and I wasn't gonna try to convince her to stay because I thought she only wanted that it looks romantic. So she went.


I didn't contact her for two weeks. And now comes the interesting part.

She messages me after two weeks:

So I was right. You don't care about me. You let me go so easily that I can only envy you.​

At that moment I think that she probably misses me but I see that she accuses me about break up. So I reminds her whose decision it was:

You forget very fast about what you say and what you do.
​

She replies:

Since when do you listen to me so well and do what I say. Maybe I counted that you try to stop me bu I see, that for you It doesn't make a difference whether I'm with you or not.
​

So I'm thinking that she tries to convince me that break up is my fault because I didn't stop her and that she only wanted to see whether I care about her. But really I'm thinking that she met some guy and now he probably pumped her and dumped or It didn't work out with new guy so she tries to get with me out of the desperation. I was meeting some new girl but not yet sleeping with her so I could use some ****s. I don't want to behave desperated and accept blame and also I want her to know that I don't believe in her story:

It was your decision and you know that the situation was not as you now depict it. Additionally you expect some declarations of love in exchange for you behavior.​

She:

You are right. It was my decision but you probably could see that I have doubts and if you said something different instead of saying "there is the door" then situation would be different. How can I know what you think if you don't tell me. You let me go with such an ease so probably you didn't care about me. Probably we both are two proud to say some things but proud people dies first so probably it had to be like this. I'm sorry that I messaged you and belabor you, probably I shouldn't.

​

So now it's very dramatic. She accuses me of not talking about my thoughts (feelings?) and that's we she broke up with me. She is hypocrite because she never told me what she thinks/feels neither. She was for whole duration of relationship very emotionally distant and never told a lot about her self. I also think that she tries to bait me trying to imply that she cares about me. I don't buy it again but at the same time I think she wants to meet with me. I don't want to be a sucker and propose meeting so I'm steering the conversation so she will ask me out.

Somehow I don't buy it. Do you write to shift blame on me, or is it something different?
​

She:

What do you think?
​

Me:

You tell me
​

She:

Tom, I think I was really clear. I write you because I wanted to see your reaction. I wanted to see if I was important to you and if you care about me. But I see, that nothing has changed and you don't appreciate this at all so we don't have anything to talk more.
​

So I think this message show what she really though at least partially. She was most arrogant in this message. She told me that I have to appreciate something -- but what should I appreciate? Her arrogant blame shifting messages? That she was so good to me and send me these laughable messages? I really wanted to laugh at her few messages back but I know it would only lead to her further aggression so I did not. In this messages she still tries to convince me that she wanted to see that I care and that it's my fault.

I have two thoughts:
1. I won't tell here that I care because she didn't earn it in exchange for her breaking up (That is arrogant to think like this). I try to suggest it that she won't get anything good for bad behavior. I think that if she really cares she will find the way to ask me out.

2. My second thought is that she tries to get my love declarations to boost her ego and make sucker of me. I think that her last message confirms that. Instead of her arranging the meeting she tries even harder to convince me it's my fault. She's even so arrogant to say that I such appreciate something (whatever she thinks I should appreciate).

I'm quite curious about this situation and I wonder how plausible is my interpretation. Maybe you interpret whole situation differently and after all I could salvage the situation.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Woah...

Dude, my two cents:

Don't be paranoid about some other guy in the picture
Your ego is square in the middle of the picture here. You are seeing things way too rationally - it was more her fault than my fault kind of thing.

And she is right, you should have fought to keep her … and it sounds like you wanted to or you would not have written such a lengthy correspondence.

It's all a little bit 'tit for tat' - I won't do this because she has not earned it etc

Chill out, go with the flow, and do not be afraid to express your feelings if you have them.

How old are you again? You need to be more generous and mature.

 

[marmel75]

At some point you have to stop "playing games" and start being in a relationship. You lied to her and got caught and then acted like it was her fault. This is straight up douchebag behavior. Accept responsibility like a grown man.

You created this drama yourself by not being truthful then basically wantd to act like the tough guy and act like you didnt care when obviously you do.

If you want her back you will have to swallow your precious pride and actually have a real conversation with her for once. Something it sounds like you may have never actually had. You know, something mature adults do. Try it for once.

 

[sazc]

At some point you have to stop "playing games" and start being in a relationship. You lied to her and got caught and then acted like it was her fault. This is straight up douchebag behavior. Accept responsibility like a grown man.

You created this drama yourself by not being truthful then basically wantd to act like the tough guy and act like you didnt care when obviously you do.

If you want her back you will have to swallow your precious pride and actually have a real conversation with her for once. Something it sounds like you may have have actually had. You know, something mature adults do. Try it for once.

^^yea, that

 

[RedScorpion]

Best not to lie about your age. Some girls will get finicky about it when you tell them, but they might accept it anyway after some thinking. Here is where I find how old you look actually prevails, rather than the number. I firmly believe that. Also, the younger the girl is, the more impactful age is (like 19 years old)... but once they start getting 20 something, age as a number becomes less and less relevant. The number becomes meaningless when they assess you.

Lying though will permanently burn you. You’re covering a fundamental part of yourself with a blatant lie, which can’t help but lead to permanent suspicion about what else you could be lying about as well. I’ve read a couple stories here about guys getting burnt about that (lying about age) - and yours is no different.

 

[RangerMIke]

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...

You failed to read her true intentions, you could not tell what was emotionally going on in her estrogen flooded brain... and did not respond the way she expected. Welcome to the club.... this sh!t happens to all of us.

You can not control what she thinks and feels, all you can do is respond to her actions. IMO your response will not help if to intend to keep this chick around. What you did was call her out... passing the blame on her. Sure.... you were only responding to her request, but how you communicated this only reinforces her assumptions, she tested you and you failed because you communicated you don't really care about her. Don't worry about it... she's just one chick, go find another one. Give her some time, if she likes you enough she'll reach out again, then try again.... but this will take time.

Next time when this happens... when you back off because a chick gives you indications she wants more space... which is the right way to respond... when she calls you out for not chasing after her... this is what you do:

Chick: So I was right. You don't care about me. You let me go so easily that I can only envy you.

You: I was only giving you space, because I thought that was what you wanted... but that was not easy. I'm glad you reached out let's get together I would love to see you again... when are you free?

The key to pulling this off is NOT to call her out or blame her for acting like a chick... it's like complaining water is wet. Do not apologize unless you really think you did something wrong... which you didn't. NEVER try to blame her because chicks never hold themselves accountable. Only respond to YOUR actions, explain why you did what you did in response to her actions... then quickly move back to what you want, because that is being authentic... to do otherwise and you appear manipulative... if she thinks you are trying to manipulate or control her, and she will resist you. Your job as a man is to make her believe what you want is what she wants. If she won't willingly give you what you want... then move on to the next woman. When you get into arguments with chicks, you get dragged away from your purpose, unless your purpose is to get into futile arguments with women you will never win, because her point will eventually default to how she 'feels'... and you can not rationally win an argument against an emotional feeling.

 

[EmotionalGeek]

At some point you have to stop "playing games" and start being in a relationship.

I haven't played game. I just didn't wanted to feel like sucker afterwards. Thus I wanted to know what she is up to. I was also thinking that she broke up with me so she should propose the meeting. I didn't want to do something good for something bad so it allows her to behave bad in future and expect something good in return.

 

[EmotionalGeek]

it was more her fault than my fault kind of thing.
...
It's all a little bit 'tit for tat' - I won't do this because she has not earned it etc
...

You probably has some mind reading skill because that was exactly what I was thinking. (Not exclusively but exactly)

And she is right, you should have fought to keep her … and it sounds like you wanted to or you would not have written such a lengthy correspondence.

So I did write such lengthy correspondence and it looks like it did not help.

Chill out

Quite a few people told me that I look tense or when I'm drunk (very rarely) they tell me that I have finally loosen up. I really hate this remark because I don't feel tense and I don't understand what they mean. But since there are few of them there must be some truth in it.

 

[EmotionalGeek]

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...
You failed to read her true intentions
...
she tested you and you failed because you communicated you don't really care

That's right. I tried to read her a little bit because I didn't want to feel like a sucker after wards. My assumption is that she broke up so she should "pay" for it, swallow her ego and ask me to talk in person. So I was testing her as well and she failed test as well. That's a stale mate.

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...
Next time when this happens... when you back off because a chick gives you indications she wants more space... which is the right way to respond... when she calls you out for not chasing after her... this is what you do:

Chick: So I was right. You don't care about me. You let me go so easily that I can only envy you.

You: I was only giving you space, because I thought that was what you wanted... but that was not easy. I'm glad you reached out let's get together I would love to see you again... when are you free?

I like the response. That's what I will try next time. But generally its very heavy reframing. I feel like reframing breaking up (she definetly said that she wouldn't meet with me if she knew my age) to giving more space is stretched bit too much. But I haven't tested it so I might be totally wrong. Anyway I'm working on improving my verbal ju-jitsu and it sounds like technique worth to try.

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...
NEVER try to blame her because chicks never hold themselves accountable

I see this since many years with every next chick. I see this and still I can't believe. It's just something that is outside my mind. How can you do something and not accept that you did it? WTF! Do they really think like this or they know they did something wrong but just don't want to admit it.

It's does not play way with my goals because I don't want chick and people in general that they can do what they want and everything is perfect so they can act like this again in the future. That's way I called her out.

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...
Only respond to YOUR actions, explain why you did what you did in response to her actions.

Hmm... I described her actions not mines because I didn't want to look like I was explaining myself because what I heard and believed is that explaining yourself is like accepting the blame (mine interpretation) and not holding the frame (what PUA community says). I started to notice it in people and see it as week move but that maybe all pickup advice influence and I might be thinking to much in black and white categories. By the way explaining is what I'm doing in response to your post

Don't call out chicks for acting like chicks...
Your job as a man is to make her believe what you want is what she wants.

I always thought that it is to gather inteligence and when I know what she wants act like I'm what she wants -- when I want to only phuck the girl. Of course in relationship I have to fell comfortable so I must be what she wants.

 

[AttackFormation]

I recognize the way you think because I used to think more like that too years ago when I hadn't done as much reflection over what kind of emotions and relations I wanted to have and how pride and bitterness were in the way of that. It was a result of starting to see women as only a static group and not as individuals, the same mistake that rabid feminists make in reverse, which just harms you and does no one any good.

I think in the future, it'd be better for you if you accepted that she is playing games and went with the flow on that because that's just how women "ask questions". Like Mike said, you can't call out chicks for being chicks. They won't change, it won't help you, they don't like it, and you are only doing it not because you really enjoy it but because you are making decisions with your pride. Relax, take a step back, and put it all in a new perspective.

Here's what I would've done when she brought it all up when you were together: tell her what she wants to hear that you should've told her about your age earlier, but say it became harder and harder with time. Whatever you specifically say isn't the point though. Then go up to her, smile calmly, look in her eyes and put your hands on her hips or shoulders but don't hug her and wait for her reaction. If she hugs you warmly, everything's ok and you can say something sweet or funny to reassure her more. If she hugs you coldly, looking like she is thinking, (or obviously if she starts talking again right away) then you know there's unfinished business and you tell her "I can tell there's something more you want to say" and she will start telling you. If she doesn't, keep asking her to tell you until she does, she just wants you to dig for it. When she starts telling you, just listen and try to say as little as possible until she is done - when you do say something, say "aha/mmm/yeah/okay, I understand how you feel".

When chicks express themselves to you they do not want a problem-solving discussion to "fix what's wrong" and then go back to normal, they want you to listen to them and feel that you care about and understand how they feel and you fvcked up on that because of the mentality that I described in the beginning. It's not about right and wrong and pride or shame, it's whether you want to feel positivity and create it or not.

 

[AttackFormation]

Exactly

Maybe if she did it out of nowhere but she did view his driving license recently, I mean that's why she brought this up now. Sure there'd be way more likely to be some other guy if she just suddenly "needed space" or whatever but that doesn't seem to be it.

If he doesn't want to be with her he can just dump her, but obviously he wants to on some level or he wouldn't have made this thread. Point is he can still dump her later if he wants to, it's just pointless to burn the bridge like this out of pride and baseless paranoia imo when apparently it's someone you want to be with.

 

[AttackFormation]

Well there are two incidents.

1. The breakup

2. The follow up

I'm responding mostly to why she followed up.

However, I will address the breakup too. He never outright liked about his age. I think it was an issue she knew she could use as an "emergency eject" excuse from day 1. I've had women use similar issues in the past.

Yea could be. Depends on what she feels about him, was he really a plate/orbiter all along or did she truly want to be with him? and to sense that you have to be in person with the chick... only he can make the best guess.

 

[RangerMIke]

Exactly

There are ALWAYS other dudes, ALWAYS. You are not in vacuum, her emotional responses are not only being directed by you... but also friends, family, and dudes that are fvcking her. It's like you standing there with a hose fulling a bucket of water, while other dudes are dipping in their cups drinking from that bucket....as long as she allows dudes to drink you will never 'fill' her interest. Also, keep in mind, you might be the dude drinking while another dude is trying to fill the bucket.

Good looking chicks get hit on ALL THE TIME. The reason chicks can move on quickly after a break-up is because even if she is a 5, she could bang a different dude every night of the week if she wanted.

Leave your ego at home because what you think and feel means NOTHING to the chick, she doesn't really care how you feel... she only cares about how YOU make HER feel. So the only logical response to this is to focus on what you want, and stop worrying about trying to do 'stuff' to get her attracted. She will use your emotional attachment, not to give you what you want, but to get from YOU what SHE wants. Keep this in mind and everything she does makes sense.

Also while we men really hate these little emotional games, MOST chicks LOVE this sh!t... They love the emotional rollercoaster.

 

[AttackFormation]

There are ALWAYS other dudes, ALWAYS. You are not in vacuum, her emotional responses are not only being directed by you... but also friends, family, and dudes that are fvcking her. It's like you standing there with a hose fulling a bucket of water, while other dudes are dipping in their cups drinking from that bucket....as long as she allows dudes to drink you will never 'fill' her interest. Also, keep in mind, you might be the dude drinking while another dude is trying to fill the bucket.

Good looking chicks get hit on ALL THE TIME. The reason chicks can move on quickly after a break-up is because even if she is a 5, she could bang a different dude every night of the week if she wanted.

Leave your ego at home because what you think and feel means NOTHING to the chick, she doesn't really care how you feel... she only cares about how YOU make HER feel. So the only logical response to this is to focus on what you want, and stop worrying about trying to do 'stuff' to get her attracted. She will use your emotional attachment, not to give you what you want, but to get from YOU what SHE wants. Keep this in mind and everything she does makes sense.

Also while we men really hate these little emotional games, MOST chicks LOVE this sh!t... They love the emotional rollercoaster.

Women always have other men in their life... if they are not meeting them now, they are thinking about them, past present or future men. Was gonna say as much in my reply but I must have had a divine insight momentarily because it felt like the situation was ripe for you to come and lay that all out.

Also PS. I think you have to learn to like the drama to be happy with women and to do that you have to take a step back and put it into another perspective... just imagine that your lives are a movie and you are watching it. It's great drama, and who doesn't enjoy watching a good story. At least that's how I enjoy it and don't blame them for it. They want their lives to be emotionally exciting like the movies they watch and stories they read and with the right perspective it works for us too.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

There are ALWAYS other dudes, ALWAYS. You are not in vacuum, her emotional responses are not only being directed by you... but also friends, family, and dudes that are fvcking her. It's like you standing there with a hose fulling a bucket of water, while other dudes are dipping in their cups drinking from that bucket....as long as she allows dudes to drink you will never 'fill' her interest. Also, keep in mind, you might be the dude drinking while another dude is trying to fill the bucket.

Good looking chicks get hit on ALL THE TIME. The reason chicks can move on quickly after a break-up is because even if she is a 5, she could bang a different dude every night of the week if she wanted.

Leave your ego at home because what you think and feel means NOTHING to the chick, she doesn't really care how you feel... she only cares about how YOU make HER feel. So the only logical response to this is to focus on what you want, and stop worrying about trying to do 'stuff' to get her attracted. She will use your emotional attachment, not to give you what you want, but to get from YOU what SHE wants. Keep this in mind and everything she does makes sense.

Also while we men really hate these little emotional games, MOST chicks LOVE this sh!t... They love the emotional rollercoaster.

OMFG. They LOVE the bs and games. Even being the recipient of it. So how dare fuq can any man ever justify being committed to a female?

 

[AttackFormation]

OMFG. They LOVE the bs and games. Even being the recipient of it. So how dare fuq can any man ever justify being committed to a female?

I tried to help answer that question in the reply I just wrote... I don't know about commitment because I've never committed to a woman. But I think to be happy with women in your life, you have to view your lives together as part of a drama or story. Then all the "excitement" she creates will make sense because looking in on it as a movie or book, it would be exciting. That's how I deal with it anyway, maybe you guys have some other ideas.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Women always have other men in their life... if they are not meeting them now, they are thinking about them, past present or future men. Was gonna say as much in my reply but I must have had a divine insight momentarily because it felt like the situation was ripe for you to come and lay that all out.

Also PS. I think you have to learn to like the drama to be happy with women and to do that you have to take a step back and put it into another perspective... just imagine that your lives are a movie and you are watching it. It's great drama, and who doesn't enjoy watching a good story. At least that's how I enjoy it and don't blame them for it. They want their lives to be emotionally exciting like the movies they watch and stories they read and with the right perspective it works for us too.

Well that's the shyt they love to gossip about. So give them something to say.

 

[AttackFormation]

Well said. This used to be common knowledge here but I was told I'm just "attracting the wrong women" the other day bc a guys ex told him she would never do this lmao

"I was told I'm just "attracting the wrong women" the other day bc a guys ex told him she would never do this lmao" LOL.... laughed reading that. Told her him would never do this, hahaha